DUST Search - Upcoming ScR Nerf Discussion.

Regnier Feros wrote:

Anmol Singh wrote:

Regnier Feros wrote:

Anmol Singh wrote:

I just want to share my feeling toward the upcoming nerf.

The Kick nerf that is upcoming is going to be a really harsh nerf because it is literally impossible to kill anything at range when firing it at medium speed with the current kick. I can imagine me in the future shooting 60 rpm trying to stay accurate on the target at range.

The heat nerf is also a big no no in my opinion because that will make it useless on everything but Amarr Assault. I use my ScR on my Amarr Scout and it already overheats trying to kill a guy with 400-500 armor, I can't imagine how useful it would be when it overheats trying to kill militia suits.

The charge shot in my opinion shouldn't be nerfed in the way it is being nerfed. It isn't as OP as people claim it to be because it literally heat the gun up to 50%. The only thing I use the charge shot is for killing things at range because we all know ScR can't sustain good DPS at range due to the fact that the kick will take you off target and you have to lower the RoF.

The only thing I will say needs a major nerf is the Assault Scrambler Rifle. That thing is plain OP. It rewards wayyyy to much for the fact that it needs close to no heat management at all. Yes, it does overheat but I can't remember the last time it overheated for me. Also, it is way to powerful toward shields.

In my opinion, the most OP factor about ScRs is their 138% efficiency toward shields with proficiency 5. I would be beneficial to make it 15+ shield/ 15- armor

Overall, the nerfs seem too much. Never a good idea to nerf something 10x in one patch without knowing the outcomes of each nerf individually .

The heat nerf just affects non Am assault users

So, now what about the Amarr Commando and the Amarr Scout??

I rarely see Am commandos as it is but lately the ones i've seen weren't using the racial weapons.
As for Am scout same thing as the mando

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Protected Void Nos Nothi 471	Posted - 2015.10.01 10:58:00 - [31] - Quote Regnier Feros wrote: Anmol Singh wrote: Regnier Feros wrote: Anmol Singh wrote: I just want to share my feeling toward the upcoming nerf. The Kick nerf that is upcoming is going to be a really harsh nerf because it is literally impossible to kill anything at range when firing it at medium speed with the current kick. I can imagine me in the future shooting 60 rpm trying to stay accurate on the target at range. The heat nerf is also a big no no in my opinion because that will make it useless on everything but Amarr Assault. I use my ScR on my Amarr Scout and it already overheats trying to kill a guy with 400-500 armor, I can't imagine how useful it would be when it overheats trying to kill militia suits. The charge shot in my opinion shouldn't be nerfed in the way it is being nerfed. It isn't as OP as people claim it to be because it literally heat the gun up to 50%. The only thing I use the charge shot is for killing things at range because we all know ScR can't sustain good DPS at range due to the fact that the kick will take you off target and you have to lower the RoF. The only thing I will say needs a major nerf is the Assault Scrambler Rifle. That thing is plain OP. It rewards wayyyy to much for the fact that it needs close to no heat management at all. Yes, it does overheat but I can't remember the last time it overheated for me. Also, it is way to powerful toward shields. In my opinion, the most OP factor about ScRs is their 138% efficiency toward shields with proficiency 5. I would be beneficial to make it 15+ shield/ 15- armor Overall, the nerfs seem too much. Never a good idea to nerf something 10x in one patch without knowing the outcomes of each nerf individually . The heat nerf just affects non Am assault users So, now what about the Amarr Commando and the Amarr Scout?? I rarely see Am commandos as it is but lately the ones i've seen weren't using the racial weapons. As for Am scout same thing as the mando Well, I play Am scout with a ScR 90% of the time. Heat management is very real issue with that setup, especially since overheating will take away a substantial percentage of my HP (I run no HP mods). I still maintain the same as I've always done on this subject: It's the combination of ScR and Am assault that is OP, not the ScR itself. On any other suit, it would be perfect with a less extreme damage profile, like +15/-15. It makes no sense to multi-nerf the rifle when it's the Am assault bonus that is to blame. I've been repeating this time and time again, but as far as I know, Rattati has never commented on it. So, I figured an over-nerf was incoming and skilled into the most similar rifle - TAC - months ago, since I enjoy single-shot, precision based weapons. I didn't use it much until recently, but now that the ScR nerf is imminent, I started practicing. I soon realized it didn't take much practice at all to do as good with the TAC as I do with the ScR. The only thing I miss is the charged shot, but that was always special case use on a non-Am-assault suit, anyway. A few quick TAC shots, driven vertically from lower centermass to headshot by the recoil, takes the shield out almost as quick as the ScR charged shot, before most players have time to react. And then there's less negative damage towards armor than with the ScR. So I generally get quicker kills at medium to long range with the TAC. In 1v1 at close range, it's slightly harder with the TAC than with the ScR, but that seems to be mostly a matter of practice. I'm getting better at it every match, anyway. So, TLDR: The nerf cannon should be aimed at the Am assault bonus, the TAC is at least as powerful as the ScR - with substantially lower fitting costs. I expect my KDR to go up noticeably if I end up moving to the TAC entirely.
IceShifter Childhaspawn Rebels New Republic The Ditanian Alliance 783	Posted - 2015.10.01 11:09:00 - [32] - Quote It was the charge combined with follow up which was the target of this nerf. It's hard to beat up hundreds of armor piercing bullets using only your face...
Protected Void Nos Nothi 471	Posted - 2015.10.01 11:23:00 - [33] - Quote IceShifter Childhaspawn wrote: It was the charge combined with follow up which was the target of this nerf. The main target, yes. There's also the increased recoil, but I have no idea how that'll turn out. Anyway: the charge combined with follow up will still be just fine on an Amarr assault, but virtually impossible on any other suit.
Radiant Pancake3 KILL-EM-QUICK 1	Posted - 2015.10.01 11:49:00 - [34] - Quote BARAGAMOS wrote: Radiant Pancake3 wrote: Anmol Singh wrote: Radiant Pancake3 wrote: I never noticed a kick... you guys must be on drugs... Try shooting a guy 60m away and maintain a good DPS. I have on multiple occasions... I revert back to my previous statement. Have to agree..at 60m it kills better than my rail rifles. The gun is super accurate. Which is an issue. It is good at all ranges. That's why I have been running it twice as much as any other weapon. Glad to see I'm not the only one. O.o Learned the ways of N4g from Alcina's mom 100% Alcina's Wife. If she says otherwise it is a myth. Min Loyalist.
Devadander Woodgrain Atari 782	Posted - 2015.10.01 14:13:00 - [35] - Quote I use amando dual laser quite often. It truly is the ultimate suppression loadout. Gêå You want a toe? I can get you a toe dude. Gêå Joined - 06-28-12 ~Deal with it~
Mejt0 Made in Poland... E-R-A 2	Posted - 2015.10.01 14:39:00 - [36] - Quote Only charge shot needed to be changed. But CCP can't do one thing at a time. Why nerf only one stat? It's beter to nerf 3-4 stats at the same time -CCP logic. You see, TacAR already has more DPS. ScR had only one advanatge over TacAR. Charge shot. Now when it will get nerfed, there is no reason to not use TacAR. I'll watch all this hell from above (sadly my new dualshock 3 isn't as accurate as previous one.. that's some BS). Ps. You can't say ScR is easy mode. It's way more difficult to aim with tactical guns than with full auto/burst guns. Modern society is lacking in empathy
Bradric Banewolf Titans of Phoenix Damage LLC 1	Posted - 2015.10.01 15:52:00 - [37] - Quote The nerf was warranted, but I agree there may have been too many too soon. Need to apply one nerf, maybe two in the scrambler case, and assess that. Doing them all at once could turn bad.... Saying that I'm glad that the weapon will now primarily be used by the amarr, and not the min, cal, and gal as much due to overheat. I do think that the other racial variants should also not overheat as much though. I can relate to your complaint about the scout as I've tried to use the AR variants on my gal scout and logi, and the results are not satisfying at all. Without the bonus of the assault those rifles struggle to stay on target and fitting is terrible?! Recently I've used the combat rifle instead, but as I respected into true gal I've had to make the AR fit on almost all my suits! It's a real challenge, but I like to challenge myself. I would like to see the other racial suits benefit from racial rifle and weapon usage like the assault and commando, but soon tm I guess. No where near the bonus as the assault or commando, but in the case of the scout or logi I'd want a little more kick control. The nerf definitely was needed though for the scrambler. Both variants were spam easy mode?! "Anybody order chaos?"
Vesta Opalus Rebels New Republic The Ditanian Alliance 1	Posted - 2015.10.01 15:58:00 - [38] - Quote Bradric Banewolf wrote: The nerf was warranted, but I agree there may have been too many too soon. Need to apply one nerf, maybe two in the scrambler case, and assess that. Doing them all at once could turn bad.... Saying that I'm glad that the weapon will now primarily be used by the amarr, and not the min, cal, and gal as much due to overheat. I do think that the other racial variants should also not overheat as much though. I can relate to your complaint about the scout as I've tried to use the AR variants on my gal scout and logi, and the results are not satisfying at all. Without the bonus of the assault those rifles struggle to stay on target and fitting is terrible?! Recently I've used the combat rifle instead, but as I respected into true gal I've had to make the AR fit on almost all my suits! It's a real challenge, but I like to challenge myself. I would like to see the other racial suits benefit from racial rifle and weapon usage like the assault and commando, but soon tm I guess. No where near the bonus as the assault or commando, but in the case of the scout or logi I'd want a little more kick control. The nerf definitely was needed though for the scrambler. Both variants were spam easy mode?! Unfortunately the primary problem with balance on this weapon (and all laser weapons) is the Amarr heat bonus, so theres a strong chance the scrambler will be absolute crap on any non amarr assault suits. But like I said before, I'd rather have yet another crappy weapon than have a weapon so insanely dominant that its everybody's easymode fit. Its pretty likely that the scrambler after this hotfix will be in the same position as the laser rifle: still a bit OP on the amarr assault, crap on everyone else.
axis alpha ScReWeD uP InC 1	Posted - 2015.10.01 16:30:00 - [39] - Quote I expect a lot more of these threads when hot fix drops. You just gotta bite the bullet on this one. Accept it. Just like every other nerf that has came before. Hullaballo and howdy doo! Musty prawns, and Timbucktu. Yeltsibee and hibbertyhoo Kick 'em in the dishpan. Hoo hoo hoo!
axis alpha ScReWeD uP InC 1	Posted - 2015.10.01 16:34:00 - [40] - Quote Mejt0 wrote: Only charge shot needed to be changed. But CCP can't do one thing at a time. Why nerf only one stat? It's beter to nerf 3-4 stats at the same time -CCP logic. You see, TacAR already has more DPS. ScR had only one advanatge over TacAR. Charge shot. Now when it will get nerfed, there is no reason to not use TacAR. I'll watch all this hell from above (sadly my new dualshock 3 isn't as accurate as previous one.. that's some BS). Ps. You can't say ScR is easy mode. It's way more difficult to aim with tactical guns than with full auto/burst guns. In no way shape or form is it easier to aim with other rifles. It HAS NO KICK. where are you all coming up with this garbage. Hullaballo and howdy doo! Musty prawns, and Timbucktu. Yeltsibee and hibbertyhoo Kick 'em in the dishpan. Hoo hoo hoo!

Kierkegaard Soren Eridani Light Horse Battalion 933	Posted - 2015.10.01 16:42:00 - [41] - Quote Scrambler Operation skill: 3% reduction to heat build up per level. Amarr Assault: 15% reduction to seize damage and seize duration per level. Charged shot generates 15% more heat than current value. Balanced for all. Dedicated Commando. "He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing."
Vesta Opalus Rebels New Republic The Ditanian Alliance 1	Posted - 2015.10.01 16:51:00 - [42] - Quote Kierkegaard Soren wrote: Scrambler Operation skill: 3% reduction to heat build up per level. Amarr Assault: 15% reduction to seize damage and seize duration per level. Charged shot generates 15% more heat than current value. Balanced for all. Might be cool, but Im not sure the bonus should apply to the worst case scenario, most people are able to avoid overheat entirely... but with these times people might not care about the overheat at all, and just eat it. Might be worth a shot to try this bonus in a hotfix.
Regnier Feros Pielords 819	Posted - 2015.10.01 16:53:00 - [43] - Quote Kierkegaard Soren wrote: Scrambler Operation skill: 3% reduction to heat build up per level. Amarr Assault: 15% reduction to seize damage and seize duration per level. Charged shot generates 15% more heat than current value. Balanced for all. I was thinking 3% faster cooldown time/2% less seize up time per level for a AM Assault bonus I LIKE PIE
CommanderBolt Dead Man's Game 4	Posted - 2015.10.01 17:43:00 - [44] - Quote Considering we do not have a +20% armour - 20% shield rifle weapon, we should change the scram to +10% shield and -10% armour. I would love this for the laser rifle as well personally but that's some harsh bias dripping through..... This is the turning point, the rising of the tide. No fear inside
Georgia Xavier Incorruptibles 1	Posted - 2015.10.01 18:08:00 - [45] - Quote axis alpha wrote: In no way shape or form is it easier to aim with other rifles. It HAS NO KICK. where are you all coming up with this garbage. Mejt isn't lying though, fully automatic weapons are much easier to aim than semi auto in general. In games of course Click for an instant good day! (or atleast cheer you up a bit)
Dingleburt Bangledack Dingle's Berry Farms 421	Posted - 2015.10.02 00:48:00 - [46] - Quote Kierkegaard Soren wrote: Scrambler Operation skill: 3% reduction to heat build up per level. Amarr Assault: 15% reduction to seize damage and seize duration per level. Charged shot generates 15% more heat than current value. Balanced for all. So, AmAssault would have a bonus that can only be utilised by being bad... Sounds awesome. If I remember correctly, the Sentinel Role bonus used to be a reduction to seize time and damage for the HMG and everyone wanted it changed primarily for the reason I just pointed out.
Victor Moody Stahl Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 276	Posted - 2015.10.02 02:14:00 - [47] - Quote Dingleburt Bangledack wrote: If I remember correctly, the Sentinel Role bonus used to be a reduction to seize time and damage for the HMG and everyone wanted it changed primarily for the reason I just pointed out. You recall incorrectly; the seize time/damage reduction were for laser weapons- which meant that you had to fit a Scrambler Rifle or Laser Rifle in order to benefit from it. IIRC the main reason everybody hated that bonus was because it offered no useful to the role-specific weaponry that was (and is) available. If there had been a heavy laser weapon that overheated often, then such a bonus might very well be useful. Buff Logis \| Nerf Scouts
Dingleburt Bangledack Dingle's Berry Farms 421	Posted - 2015.10.02 02:31:00 - [48] - Quote Victor Moody Stahl wrote: Dingleburt Bangledack wrote: If I remember correctly, the Sentinel Role bonus used to be a reduction to seize time and damage for the HMG and everyone wanted it changed primarily for the reason I just pointed out. You recall incorrectly; the seize time/damage reduction were for laser weapons- which meant that you had to fit a Scrambler Rifle or Laser Rifle in order to benefit from it. IIRC the main reason everybody hated that bonus was because it offered no useful to the role-specific weaponry that was (and is) available. If there had been a heavy laser weapon that overheated often, then such a bonus might very well be useful. It was for "Heavy Weapons"... of which, there was one that overheated... The HMG.
Knox Firmus Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 44	Posted - 2015.10.02 03:26:00 - [49] - Quote Dingleburt Bangledack wrote: Victor Moody Stahl wrote: Dingleburt Bangledack wrote: If I remember correctly, the Sentinel Role bonus used to be a reduction to seize time and damage for the HMG and everyone wanted it changed primarily for the reason I just pointed out. You recall incorrectly; the seize time/damage reduction were for laser weapons- which meant that you had to fit a Scrambler Rifle or Laser Rifle in order to benefit from it. IIRC the main reason everybody hated that bonus was because it offered no useful to the role-specific weaponry that was (and is) available. If there had been a heavy laser weapon that overheated often, then such a bonus might very well be useful. It was for "Heavy Weapons"... of which, there was one that overheated... The HMG. You're both wrong. the Amarr sentinel bonus of old was only a reduction to feedback damage, not to seize duration at all. It was there in anticipation of an amarr heavy weapon that regularly chipped away at the user's health, but didn't seize up when doing so.
Fluffy Exterminatus Fatal Absolution Bleeding Sun Conglomerate 87	Posted - 2015.10.02 03:58:00 - [50] - Quote just change am assault bonus from 5% to 3% like gal assault CCP Rattati - Grand Dragon Wizard of the Gaylente Agenda Touched by his noodly appendage (The Flying Spaghetti Monster

Forever ETC Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 1	Posted - 2015.10.02 04:05:00 - [51] - Quote Solution To Laser Weaponry AmarrFTW "The Hero got his feelings hurt for 9 hp... " Not For Sale- Sanders 2016
Dingleburt Bangledack Dingle's Berry Farms 421	Posted - 2015.10.02 04:06:00 - [52] - Quote Knox Firmus wrote: Dingleburt Bangledack wrote: Victor Moody Stahl wrote: Dingleburt Bangledack wrote: If I remember correctly, the Sentinel Role bonus used to be a reduction to seize time and damage for the HMG and everyone wanted it changed primarily for the reason I just pointed out. You recall incorrectly; the seize time/damage reduction were for laser weapons- which meant that you had to fit a Scrambler Rifle or Laser Rifle in order to benefit from it. IIRC the main reason everybody hated that bonus was because it offered no useful to the role-specific weaponry that was (and is) available. If there had been a heavy laser weapon that overheated often, then such a bonus might very well be useful. It was for "Heavy Weapons"... of which, there was one that overheated... The HMG. You're both wrong. the Amarr sentinel bonus of old was only a reduction to feedback damage, not to seize duration at all. It was there in anticipation of an amarr heavy weapon that regularly chipped away at the user's health, but didn't seize up when doing so. Actually, I think you're right... what the hell was I thinking about? In either case, I still stand by my opinion that a bonus that only comes into effect when you screw up (as opposed to affecting your weapon all the time, like all Assault bonuses currently do) is just a stupid idea.
Vesta Opalus Rebels New Republic The Ditanian Alliance 1	Posted - 2015.10.02 05:40:00 - [53] - Quote Dingleburt Bangledack wrote: Kierkegaard Soren wrote: Scrambler Operation skill: 3% reduction to heat build up per level. Amarr Assault: 15% reduction to seize damage and seize duration per level. Charged shot generates 15% more heat than current value. Balanced for all. So, AmAssault would have a bonus that can only be utilised by being bad... Sounds awesome. If I remember correctly, the Sentinel Role bonus used to be a reduction to seize time and damage for the HMG and everyone wanted it changed primarily for the reason I just pointed out. But if you look at this you see the seize time post bonus for this is about the length of your gun cooling down regardless, so it essentially removes the requirement to worry about overheat at the cost of a bit of damage to self. You can just power through overheat if you feel like you need to (on the scrambler anyway, laser is a different story obviously, with longer seize, etc).
Sequal's Back Dead Man's Game 1	Posted - 2015.10.02 05:48:00 - [54] - Quote The nerf should've been on damage vs shield : Nerf base damage by 5%. Make a -15/+15 meta. Balanced. Bring your daughter... TO THE SLAUGHTER ! - Sequal Rise
Dingleburt Bangledack Dingle's Berry Farms 421	Posted - 2015.10.02 06:09:00 - [55] - Quote Vesta Opalus wrote: But if you look at this you see the seize time post bonus for this is about the length of your gun cooling down regardless, so it essentially removes the requirement to worry about overheat at the cost of a bit of damage to self. You can just power through overheat if you feel like you need to (on the scrambler anyway, laser is a different story obviously, with longer seize, etc). Dingleburt Bangledack wrote: In either case, I still stand by my opinion that a bonus that only comes into effect when you screw up (as opposed to affecting your weapon all the time, like all Assault bonuses currently do) is just a stupid idea. Just sayin'.
Mejt0 Made in Poland... E-R-A 2	Posted - 2015.10.02 12:47:00 - [56] - Quote axis alpha wrote: Mejt0 wrote: Only charge shot needed to be changed. But CCP can't do one thing at a time. Why nerf only one stat? It's beter to nerf 3-4 stats at the same time -CCP logic. You see, TacAR already has more DPS. ScR had only one advanatge over TacAR. Charge shot. Now when it will get nerfed, there is no reason to not use TacAR. I'll watch all this hell from above (sadly my new dualshock 3 isn't as accurate as previous one.. that's some BS). Ps. You can't say ScR is easy mode. It's way more difficult to aim with tactical guns than with full auto/burst guns. In no way shape or form is it easier to aim with other rifles. It HAS NO KICK. where are you all coming up with this garbage. Take semi-auto weapon and try to kill an assault 65m away while he's sprinting. Then take automatic rifle and watch how said assualt will lay down in under 2 seconds. With semi-auto rifles you have to land every shot. With full auto rifles it's much easier to just track an enemy. Modern society is lacking in empathy
Boot Booter Titans of Phoenix Damage LLC 1	Posted - 2015.10.02 14:36:00 - [57] - Quote Edit: sorry just realised people posted this same **** already. Disregard. Somebody suggested that instead of nerfing the thing to the ground you change the amarr assault bonus to... 5% reduction in feedback damage and overheat time per level. Then balance the rifle accordingly. This way it will be usable as a weapon for any suit but provide the amarr a unique way of dealing with its overheating. I also think it should be a +15/-15 damage profile. Currently it's way too strong against shields. As a shield Tanker you literally don't have time to react before its digging through your armor. The nerfs in FoxFour won't really change that but hopefully the overheat helps shield tankers escape and the shield buff will definitely help them get back into the fight faster. We will see how it plays out.
Boot Booter Titans of Phoenix Damage LLC 1	Posted - 2015.10.02 14:46:00 - [58] - Quote Dingleburt Bangledack wrote: Kierkegaard Soren wrote: Scrambler Operation skill: 3% reduction to heat build up per level. Amarr Assault: 15% reduction to seize damage and seize duration per level. Charged shot generates 15% more heat than current value. Balanced for all. So, AmAssault would have a bonus that can only be utilised by being bad... Sounds awesome. If I remember correctly, the Sentinel Role bonus used to be a reduction to seize time and damage for the HMG and everyone wanted it changed primarily for the reason I just pointed out. It would be awesome. You could literally fire through the whole clip with minimal seize time and damage. 15% may be a bit high, but at those values you'd be looking at a 1.25 s seize time (about half the time it takes to reload) and only 12 damage from overheating. Let that sink in a bit.
Vesta Opalus Rebels New Republic The Ditanian Alliance 1	Posted - 2015.10.02 15:21:00 - [59] - Quote Dingleburt Bangledack wrote: Vesta Opalus wrote: But if you look at this you see the seize time post bonus for this is about the length of your gun cooling down regardless, so it essentially removes the requirement to worry about overheat at the cost of a bit of damage to self. You can just power through overheat if you feel like you need to (on the scrambler anyway, laser is a different story obviously, with longer seize, etc). Dingleburt Bangledack wrote: In either case, I still stand by my opinion that a bonus that only comes into effect when you screw up (as opposed to affecting your weapon all the time, like all Assault bonuses currently do) is just a stupid idea. Just sayin'. Yes I saw what you wrote, the point is that the bonus means screwing up is no longer screwing up, but a circumstantially valid option instead.
Bremen van Equis Incorruptibles 747	Posted - 2015.10.02 15:38:00 - [60] - Quote Does this thread come with a bucket yoke? Buckle up, boysGÇªthis ramp leads to space. -Axe Cop



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