Pages: [1] :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
zzZaXxx
XxAMBUSH FTWxX
799
|
Posted - 2015.09.29 19:26:00 -
[1] - Quote
Rattati you are the MAN! Kudos to the CPM as well. This hotfix tops them all and feels like a culmination. Things this hotfix does:
- Balances shield tanking with armor tanking (if not making it a bit OP)
- Brings all rifles into balance with proper strengths and drawbacks (at least when run on assaults)
- brings Cal Logi and Calmando back from the dead
- gives new life to Cal Assault and Minmando
- makes Magsec, Assault SMG, Scrambler Pistol, Breach Shotgun, and Breach Mass Driver competitive
- does a bunch with vehicles that's Greek to me
Here's my feedback:
- Reducing the range of all assault variants but AR, together with nerfing the SCR, brings all the rifles into balance.
Now SCR, RR, and LR will rule long range (no ARR) while still being balanced by drawbacks.
CR and TAR will be more effective due to their new range advantage over assault variants, and ARR will settle into a more balanced role alongside them. (CR may suffer a lot against shields though.)
ASCR will thrive in the new world of crazy fast shield regen, despite the nerf.
ACR will still be very good situationally and Burst AR will be more competitive due to its range being more favorable now and its strength against shields. (And because it's been decent for a while now.)
AR and BAR will be competitive now on Gallente Assaults. The ROF bonus together with the shield buffs and range nerfs will enable them to thrive in the right conditions.
- All assault suits now have bonuses that almost compel players to run their respective racial weapons on them. This is great for racial parity and overall competitive balance. Cal and Min Assaults now have super fast shield regen to go with good damage against armor. Gal and Amarr Assaults have rifles that melt shields to go with solid armor tanks.
Other thoughts:
- Bolt Pistol didn't need a nerf. It'll probably suck now.
- The ACR's dispersion was increased to mitigate its range. Maybe that should be dialed back now.
- Passive reps on Gallente and Amarr suits will probably need a buff soon
- Commandos are still worthless unless you really need that second light weapon for AV or suppression (niche role)
- Scouts are even more UP now, in pubs at least.
- Now that Cal Logi is good again, it stands out that it has an equipment bonus that benefits it less than any suit but Cal Scout, while the uplink bonus goes to one the least mobile suits. Maybe they could be switched? |
Victor Moody Stahl
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
257
|
Posted - 2015.09.29 20:32:00 -
[2] - Quote
zzZaXxx wrote:- Bolt Pistol didn't need a nerf. It'll probably suck now.
No, but the nerf was directed at the wrong trait; from what I understand, it's primarily the aim-assist characteristics of the BP that make it a good backup. In terms of its primary role as a long-range "sniper pistol" of sorts, I don't see the change making much difference.
zzZaXxx wrote:- Passive reps on Gallente and Amarr suits will probably need a buff soon
I'm skeptical of this. For lighter frames, perhaps this is true. But for assaults and the various flavors of heavy? Probably not- when I pull out an Amarr Sentinel for example, I run it unplated with dual reps and dual kincats. Gets about 7-10 hp/s rep rate (IIRC, not sure the exact number), and has a total armor buffer of 750 hp. That's on top of some 450 shield hp for a "pre-buffer", too.
Same sort of shtick with my AmMando- 600ish base armor, 250ish shields, and generally 8-10 hp/s rep rate. OTOH, with my Amarr Commando/Assault/Logi suits I also tend to carry Compact hives for emergency armor regen, so YMMV.
zzZaXxx wrote:- Commandos are still worthless unless you really need that second light weapon for AV or suppression (niche role)
I simultaneously agree and disagree. Commandos are a great versatile platform; IMO they're one of the best "pubbing" suits. Carry a rifle of choice, throw on a PLC, and you've got a great way to drive off tanks, blap LAVs, potshot derpships, blap heavies, and generally wreck infantry.
Vary the PLC with, say, Swarms or the upcoming MD/Breach MD, and you've got a good Swiss-army-suit.
zzZaXxx wrote:- Scouts are even more UP now, in pubs at least.
I primarily play pubs, and I tend to run into either really good scouts that wreck me, or bad scouts that don't realize that I can in fact see the cloak shimmer* and they should realize that because I'm shooting them.
OTOH, maybe it's a timezone/geography/gamemode thing, as I'm in the 'mericas and play Skirmish to the exclusion of all else.
zzZaXxx wrote:- Now that Cal Logi is good again, it stands out that it has an equipment bonus that benefits it less than any suit but Cal Scout, while the uplink bonus goes to one the least mobile suits. Maybe they could be switched?
By that logic, it should be MinLogi with links and AmLogi with reps. The devs chose to map the equipment/logi bonuses via which race makes what.
As the Amarr make links, they get the link bonus. I'm more interested in keeping that link bonus, because I like my Amarr Logi as it is now. The only thing I would change about it is that I'd like more offensively-minded equipment (anti-personnel mines would be a good start).
*Depending on the map mood, lighting, area, and positioning of myself and a cloaked scout, I can in fact see the shimmer. It's quite entertaining when a cloaked scout is running straight at me, while under cloak, and I'm actively shooting (and hitting!) him, and he doesn't bother to uncloak until he's in shotgun range.
Some people don't realize that when you're in a 1v1 and you're cloaked and being shot, you should probably whip out your gun ASAP to try and win.
Buff Logis | Nerf Scouts
|
zzZaXxx
XxAMBUSH FTWxX
807
|
Posted - 2015.09.30 06:29:00 -
[3] - Quote
I've actually thought about which logis should really have what equipment for a long time. In my dream of dreams this would happen:
Amarr Logi gets a bonus to nanohives and uses those for beastly armor reps and to create strong defensive points where he can take advantage of having a lot of armor and a sidearm
Minmatar Logi gets Drop Uplinks because they're the most mobile.
Gallente Logi gets armor reps because they armor rep well and so can stand behind their heavy with bullets grazing them while still repping.
Caldari Logi get scanners because knowing where the enemy is fits well with duck and cover shield tanking. |
Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
11
|
Posted - 2015.09.30 08:19:00 -
[4] - Quote
zzZaXxx wrote: - Bolt Pistol didn't need a nerf. It'll probably suck now.
- Passive reps on Gallente and Amarr suits will probably need a buff soon
- Commandos are still worthless unless you really need that second light weapon for AV or suppression (niche role)
- Scouts are even more UP now, in pubs at least.
I don't like the bolt pistol nerf, but we'll see how it plays out. I don't think it'll keep me from using the weapon as my backup on my AV sentinels any time soon. And to my understanding the AA ratings are all pretty much the same (I'd have to ask rattati to verify this) so go figure. I'm pretty sure that was verified by someone in the past. doesn't affect me as much because I obsessively ADS the Bolt pistol and only hip fire at point blank. But just because I don't like it doesn't mean I won't give it a chance.
Passive reps on Gallente may be on the table some time. I doubt for amarr though. Amarr have always been the armor buffer race, focusing on raw HP over reps. The ONLY place where amarr have an advantage on reps is in EVE online where their logi cruisers rep more per cycle than the gallente, but the downside is you have to have a capacitor transfer pointed at you feeding you power in order to not rapidly crash your ship's systems. so it's definitely not a great comparable example.
I find commandos largely underrated and underutilized by cohesive squads.
I find it hard to call scouts UP in pubs when I personally (with witnesses) was able to murder ten people in a Scout C-1 with two cardiac regs, no damps, no shield mods (Lex Damage mods were used instead) before anyone was able to catch me. I have caldari scouts skilled to 2, and I was using a quafe shotgun. Oh, uncloaked. I suck ass with scouts compared to some of our more prominent posters, they make me look like a flailing, angry child threatening everyone with a nerf gun when it comes to scoutmurder. The only one I see as problematic at this point is the A-1, which feels lackluster unless fitted like an assault to exploit it's higher movement speeds.
Yes I'm putting skills into scouts. Shocking, no?
WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
|
Varoth Drac
Dead Man's Game
1
|
Posted - 2015.09.30 08:32:00 -
[5] - Quote
Victor Moody Stahl wrote: *Depending on the map mood, lighting, area, and positioning of myself and a cloaked scout, I can in fact see the shimmer. It's quite entertaining when a cloaked scout is running straight at me, while under cloak, and I'm actively shooting (and hitting!) him, and he doesn't bother to uncloak until he's in shotgun range.
Some people don't realize that when you're in a 1v1 and you're cloaked and being shot, you should probably whip out your gun ASAP to try and win.
This is probably due to the long amount of time it takes to decloak and pull out a weapon. Along with the fact that sprinting cancels the weapon change, leaving you decloaked, but still without a weapon, and requiring another long weapon change time before you can arm yourself.
This is decloak time is something I'd like to see reduced. |
Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
11
|
Posted - 2015.09.30 08:36:00 -
[6] - Quote
Varoth Drac wrote:Victor Moody Stahl wrote: *Depending on the map mood, lighting, area, and positioning of myself and a cloaked scout, I can in fact see the shimmer. It's quite entertaining when a cloaked scout is running straight at me, while under cloak, and I'm actively shooting (and hitting!) him, and he doesn't bother to uncloak until he's in shotgun range.
Some people don't realize that when you're in a 1v1 and you're cloaked and being shot, you should probably whip out your gun ASAP to try and win.
This is probably due to the long amount of time it takes to decloak and pull out a weapon. Along with the fact that sprinting cancels the weapon change, leaving you decloaked, but still without a weapon, and requiring another long weapon change time before you can arm yourself. This is decloak time is something I'd like to see reduced.
I'm noticing a lot of the most disruptive scout killing sprees only involve a cloak long enough to get into the general area where the killing is going to happen. Speed and shotguns do the rest.
WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
|
Varoth Drac
Dead Man's Game
1
|
Posted - 2015.09.30 08:50:00 -
[7] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:Varoth Drac wrote:Victor Moody Stahl wrote: *Depending on the map mood, lighting, area, and positioning of myself and a cloaked scout, I can in fact see the shimmer. It's quite entertaining when a cloaked scout is running straight at me, while under cloak, and I'm actively shooting (and hitting!) him, and he doesn't bother to uncloak until he's in shotgun range.
Some people don't realize that when you're in a 1v1 and you're cloaked and being shot, you should probably whip out your gun ASAP to try and win.
This is probably due to the long amount of time it takes to decloak and pull out a weapon. Along with the fact that sprinting cancels the weapon change, leaving you decloaked, but still without a weapon, and requiring another long weapon change time before you can arm yourself. This is decloak time is something I'd like to see reduced. I'm noticing a lot of the most disruptive scout killing sprees only involve a cloak long enough to get into the general area where the killing is going to happen. Speed and shotguns do the rest. Very true, this is exactly how it is used effectively. It works if your attack window is long, but if you are under a time pressure due to an evolving battlefield or just general movement of enemies, it can cause some frustration. The delay is not really necessary and feels slow, clunky and kind of annoying to use, especially the sprint cancelling. The cloak-blind effect ensures you are better off uncloaked in built up areas.
Lots of scouts don't bother with the cloak at all, which is a shame as it's one of the only things that differentiates the class from assaults.
It doesn't need removing entirely, invisible shotgunners are annoying, but it doesn't need to be so long. A time reduction would smooth out gameplay, make it more fun, and hopefully get more people to actually use a cloak.
Perhaps shimmer reduction wouldn't be a bad move either. Rattati has mentioned the cloak could do with a buff. |
Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
11
|
Posted - 2015.09.30 09:06:00 -
[8] - Quote
The only reason for the nerf was because it was possible to attack before the cloak invis effect wore off or the passive scanner could update and potentially register the threat.
I really don't like the way the cloak attack delay works, but the reason for the nerf was valid.
I tested the cloak invisittack with kane. I was able to put two shotgun blasts out before the cloak dropped.
I'm all for losing the crazy swap delay. But there needs to be a viable balance alternative to go with it. Back to what we had before isn't an improvement.
WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
|
zzZaXxx
XxAMBUSH FTWxX
809
|
Posted - 2015.09.30 14:05:00 -
[9] - Quote
Scouts aren't UP in pubs when they cloak up with shotgun. I think, however, that if scouts are given faster health recovery, giving them a clearer advantage there over assaults, it won't impact the cloak shotty role--you survive or you don't once you decloak and engage that close up, and once you run off to make another pass you're gonna have all your HP when you circle back no matter what--but it would help them when engaging head to head with rifles and recharging/repping while ducking in and out of cover or displacing. |
Unholy HateGore
highland marines
25
|
Posted - 2015.09.30 17:09:00 -
[10] - Quote
Release date of Foxfour? |
|
zzZaXxx
XxAMBUSH FTWxX
811
|
Posted - 2015.09.30 19:22:00 -
[11] - Quote
Yeah regarding commandos, I think they can be very useful. Just their AV strength could be worth it for some, but they also have specific uses that come in handy all the time. I guess the role is somewhat limited but can be very effective if someone's focusing on just that role. For example:
Amarr: Lay down suppressive fire with the LR (whose range just got comparitively better) from a vantage point with Alloteks, got the SCR for up closer (instead of an SMG). Long range, slow but hard to take down suppressor
Caldari: Focus on ultra range wth SNR, extreme range with RR or AV with SWL. ARR for everything else. Best from a vantage point with Flux Scanner. Long range, slowish, resilient sniper
Minmatar: Focus anti-infantry AOE with MD or AMD or on anti-tank/anti-sentinal with BMD. CR for everything else. Good from just behind front lines with Alloteks. Mid range, OK speed, resilient grenadier
Gallente: Focus on shock with BSG or anti-tank/anti-sentinal with PC. AR for anything else. Good at the vanguard, busting down doors, especially with remote reps and a kincat. Run a Quantum Scanner. Good speed, close range, hard to take down shock trooper
They need an extra slot to be able to have more choices and thrive.
Considering their large hitbox I think they should scew more towards setinal's HP, with a commensurate speed reduction. That will give them HP they need to take the beatings they get on their large hitboxes. |
Llast 326
An Arkhos
9
|
Posted - 2015.09.30 19:34:00 -
[12] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:The only reason for the nerf was because it was possible to attack before the cloak invis effect wore off or the passive scanner could update and potentially register the threat.
I really don't like the way the cloak attack delay works, but the reason for the nerf was valid.
I tested the cloak invisittack with kane. I was able to put two shotgun blasts out before the cloak dropped.
I'm all for losing the crazy swap delay. But there needs to be a viable balance alternative to go with it. Back to what we had before isn't an improvement. I agree. The general idea was to make certain the cloak was not an tool for attacking, instead to be used as defensive. Unfortunately the Attack was taken out without increasing it's utility as a defensive measure. I'd say reduction to the visibility while in motion would help bring it into utility. Crossing open ground, and cloaking as a form of escape would be more viable.
MOAR Ladders
SpadeGǪ Remember your Warbarge
|
Victor Moody Stahl
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
265
|
Posted - 2015.09.30 21:10:00 -
[13] - Quote
Varoth Drac wrote:Victor Moody Stahl wrote: *Depending on the map mood, lighting, area, and positioning of myself and a cloaked scout, I can in fact see the shimmer. It's quite entertaining when a cloaked scout is running straight at me, while under cloak, and I'm actively shooting (and hitting!) him, and he doesn't bother to uncloak until he's in shotgun range.
Some people don't realize that when you're in a 1v1 and you're cloaked and being shot, you should probably whip out your gun ASAP to try and win.
This is probably due to the long amount of time it takes to decloak and pull out a weapon. Along with the fact that sprinting cancels the weapon change, leaving you decloaked, but still without a weapon, and requiring another long weapon change time before you can arm yourself. This is decloak time is something I'd like to see reduced. Not that I want scouts to be able to attack when spotted, your opponents should have run when it became obvious you had seem them. But it would make attacking before being spotted easier. Speed is essential for scouts to make the most of short attack windows. Waiting for decloak can be frustrating, and the sprint cancelling is downright annoying.
The particular incident I had in mind involved a cloaked Ganja, who tried to shotgun. IIRC he failed to break my shields in my AmLogi suit (~450 armor/200-ish shields), as I killed him when he tried to raptor-leap-shotgun me.
His failing was that I saw the shimmer and opened fire from a minimum distance of, I think, about 20-30 meters. He should have broken right toward the cover of the socket (or left towards some terrain), instead of kamikaze-charging me in a straight line (thus making himself the perfect target). By the time he decided to uncloak, he was already decisively screwed over in the engagement.
In a different match I had somebody send me hatemail that said "you better run scrub". The particular player I had already killed several times while he attempted to sneak up on me and melee from cloak with a Minja. I think he was quite pissed off that I'd managed to drop him while he was cloaked (I sent a classy reply saying as much, too!). He also didn't bother to notice that I was alone, against 2+ enemies, in which case discretion is the better part of valor if you don't know what you're facing (and especially if you do and know that you can't take that on!).
Buff Logis | Nerf Scouts
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |