There is no weapon in the game that cannot break the reps of the Code Focused rep tool, the best in the game. Even the sniper rifle, which has the lowest DPS, does damage faster than the Core Focused can rep.

All the rep tool does is cancel out some of the DPS of any incoming damage source. For instance a weapon that does 450 DPS comes against a suit getting 150 hp/s in remote reps. The 150 hp/s cancels out 150 of the weapons DPS, so the suit being shot is effectively taking 300 DPS. The lowest possible damage you can do to armor is a basic assault rifle on a Minmatar sentinels armor, and it takes 3 Cor Focused rep tools with MinLogi 5 on all of them to completely cancel out the AR. 3 people bringing their best to nullify a single weapon. That not imbalanced.

What your experiencing is a heavy that strafes in and out of your line of fire, repping between your shots. I have little problem killing a heavy on reps if I can get a good angle on them to shoot. But when they can be repped while I have no shot, it makes it seem like they are invincible.

Needing the rep tool is nonsensical, because it takes 3 of the best to cancel our the weakest armor damage possible in the game. What we need is a way to shut down rep tools so we can make a push. Have fluxes disrupt rep tools for 5 seconds for instance. But the problem is in the lack of counters to reps, not the reps themselves.

But that's not their purpose. They are supposed to be used to delay death long enough to win the engagement. It's the same way in Eve. Only in Eve there are ways to stop the reps. We need that in Dust.

In Eve, reps require capacitor to use: basically it takes mana to run them. There are weapons that drain capacitor, so by draining the capacitor of the repping ship, you can turn off the reps.

Ok you beat me. I'll look into what ways to stop reps. So when you say in EvE they can stop reps? Is it a way to temporarily disable them from working or it's just a good counter to the repair system?

There are a number of ways to stop reps in EVE, although none of them are reliable, and not all will work in all situations. In sub-capital engagements, Electronic Counter Measures (ECM) are a simple way to deny reps, ECM Jammers are the most direct way, as they have a chance to deny the target ship a chance to lock on, but are easily countered through fitting ECCM modules. The next form of ECM that's effective is a Sensor Dampener, these work by lowering the lock range, and increasing lock time of the targeted enemy ship.

Capacitor Warfare is another, far more reliable way to break reps, but is more easily countered. To engage remote repair systems in eve, a ship has expend energy from its capacitor. Energy Neutralizers and Nosferatus take away energy from enemy ships capacitors, however ships also can have energy transfers, which on logistics vessels send more energy than they take to activate (allowing for "Capacitor Chains" to be formed, effectively making Cap Warfare useless against them).

Against a competent Logi Wing Commander, there are no ways to reliably deny reps in Eve...which many consider to be overpowered, as then the only effective counter becomes Alpha Striking the target off the field (Also note: in eve, a single Logistics Cruiser can out-remote repair the DPS from multiple enemy DPS Battleships...and Carriers are even better at Remote Repair than Cruisers.)

You know what's really great at stopping a repair tool?

Killing the Logi.

You know what's really great at stopping logis?

Explosions.

---

Point is, the Repair Tool is a pitiful compared to EVE so trying to make that comparison is pretty tough. You have a situation where 2 players are working together to be greater than the sum of their parts, and that actually works fairly well with the Repair Tool.

As an earlier posted commented, even some of the lowest DPS weapons in the game have 3x+ the DPS that the repair tool can rep at. If someone is "seemingly repping through the damage" that would mean that over 65% of your shots are missing, which really isn't on the rep tool...and that's in a 1 on 2 encounter.

In a 2 on 2 encounter you're looking at the rep tool only mitigating 1/6th of the incoming DPS, and at that point the Logi's chance of survival start to drop significantly. The key is that if you encounter a Heavy/Logi combo, you should be focusing more on the Logi than the Sentinel. Logis are fairly quick but also pretty low on HP, they tend to fall quickly to things like grenades and mass drivers, particularly if they're using a Core Repair tool and are forced to be closer to the Sentinel they're repping.

In reality the rep tool is, at least in my opinion, really the core function of the Logistics role (as we also see in EVE) and honestly in Dust is actually performs pretty damn well (I just wish we had some sort of equivalent for shields). Regardless, and I don't mean this as an insult, but I think you're approaching a given combat situation in the wrong way and are incorrectly identifying the Repair Tool as the problem, when in reality I think it's more about how you handle a given situation.

I propose that to keep from farming so many WP with a rep tool on a proto amarr heavy, we change the triage points received based on a static rate. I say that per 5 armor repaired, the repper gets one war point. So for repping an amarr heavy, he would get say 200 WP.

I also propose that armor rep tools be nerfed, and the rate of reps be reduced. Currently, a proto rep tool and a proto heavy can win a 1v1 by simply standing through the fire. The heavy with reps needs to duck once to get a higher hp than his opponent and come out to destroy the red heavy. What I propose is that a proto rep tool will rep 75hp/s, advanced 50hp/s, and standard at 25hp/s. These are random numbers that haven't been put into a spreadsheet and all, but I would say that a heavy with 75hp/s reps won't be as super tough as it is now, and nearly untouchable.

With a armor rep nerf, we could bring in a shield repair tool. Utilizing the same things as the armor rep, it would just regenerate shields. And the same with armor reps, they would have lowered rates. However, because the max shield hp is not as high as max armor hp, unless rattati surprise buffs them, shield rep tools should rep in chunks with higher hp. Kind of the way shield regenerates. Every 3 seconds or so, a chunk of say 70hp(proto) of shields jumps up. However, getting hit by bullets will not interrupt the rep cycle, but the owner will receive damage. So with proto it's 70hp, advanced 50hp, std 20hp. The way WP come in for this tool is with every regeneration jump cycle thing, you get WP. This number is undecided for now.

I designed these two rep tool rates so that it wouldn't make any suit invincible, and especially with the introduction of a shield tool, you wouldn't be untouchable with both tools on you.

Feel free to reply why and what I should change, it's all just thoughts coming together to make a suggestion. That's all!

YOUR TRYING TO KILL THE GAME. Logis are fine our suits can cost upwards of 200k a pop and we have no armor. Take a mass driver and destroy us its not difficult. With all due respect even a idiot can do that.

Ok you beat me. I'll look into what ways to stop reps. So when you say in EvE they can stop reps? Is it a way to temporarily disable them from working or it's just a good counter to the repair system?

YOUR TRYING TO KILL THE GAME. Logis are fine our suits can cost upwards of 200k a pop and we have no armor. Take a mass driver and destroy us its not difficult. With all due respect even a idiot can do that.

I propose that to keep from farming so many WP with a rep tool on a proto amarr heavy, we change the triage points received based on a static rate. I say that per 5 armor repaired, the repper gets one war point. So for repping an amarr heavy, he would get say 200 WP.

I also propose that armor rep tools be nerfed, and the rate of reps be reduced. Currently, a proto rep tool and a proto heavy can win a 1v1 by simply standing through the fire. The heavy with reps needs to duck once to get a higher hp than his opponent and come out to destroy the red heavy. What I propose is that a proto rep tool will rep 75hp/s, advanced 50hp/s, and standard at 25hp/s. These are random numbers that haven't been put into a spreadsheet and all, but I would say that a heavy with 75hp/s reps won't be as super tough as it is now, and nearly untouchable.

With a armor rep nerf, we could bring in a shield repair tool. Utilizing the same things as the armor rep, it would just regenerate shields. And the same with armor reps, they would have lowered rates. However, because the max shield hp is not as high as max armor hp, unless rattati surprise buffs them, shield rep tools should rep in chunks with higher hp. Kind of the way shield regenerates. Every 3 seconds or so, a chunk of say 70hp(proto) of shields jumps up. However, getting hit by bullets will not interrupt the rep cycle, but the owner will receive damage. So with proto it's 70hp, advanced 50hp, std 20hp. The way WP come in for this tool is with every regeneration jump cycle thing, you get WP. This number is undecided for now.

I designed these two rep tool rates so that it wouldn't make any suit invincible, and especially with the introduction of a shield tool, you wouldn't be untouchable with both tools on you.

Feel free to reply why and what I should change, it's all just thoughts coming together to make a suggestion. That's all!

No, OP has a legit gripe, but to nerf the tool or its wp generation is not the answer. What we need is a way to shut down logi chains. Fluxes disrupt them for X seconds for instance. Maybe a new grenade that disables all forms of repair within its cloud of influence. Something that we can use to actively shut down the reps.

Wanting to change the rep tool with no counter is like trying to balance tanks when there's no AV.

>Loses 2v1,because of teamwork
>Blames 2v1
>Can't adapt
>Cries nerf

0/10 OP


Weapons' OPness is determined by it's scale against rep tools.

The AHMG was nerfed because the rep tools couldn't negate ANY damage.

What's the counter you ask?

Weapons that do 3x damage.
Anything that does damage.

Good aim.

You introduce a " interrupt rep tools" grenade,it'll be the only thing used.

While the rep tools' natural counter (any weapon) will run roughshod over logistics.


How about a weapon jamming grenade? Bringing combat to a halt seems like a hoot.
That would be insanely OP you say?

You can recognize the OPness of a weapon variety,yet you stand behind an equipment variety?
Hypocrisy.



As for WP...

You reduce my costs by 75%,or buff my suit to assault levels. (Assaults survive longer for cheaper.)

Then mess with my income,that i need to run my glass cannon.

No, OP has a legit gripe, but to nerf the tool or its wp generation is not the answer. What we need is a way to shut down logi chains. Fluxes disrupt them for X seconds for instance. Maybe a new grenade that disables all forms of repair within its cloud of influence. Something that we can use to actively shut down the reps.

Wanting to change the rep tool with no counter is like trying to balance tanks when there's no AV.

>Loses 2v1,because of teamwork
>Blames 2v1
>Can't adapt
>Cries nerf

0/10 OP


Weapons' OPness is determined by it's scale against rep tools.

The AHMG was nerfed because the rep tools couldn't negate ANY damage.

What's the counter you ask?

Weapons that do 3x damage.
Anything that does damage.

Good aim.

You introduce a " interrupt rep tools" grenade,it'll be the only thing used.

While the rep tools' natural counter (any weapon) will run roughshod over logistics.


How about a weapon jamming grenade? Bringing combat to a halt seems like a hoot.
That would be insanely OP you say?

You can recognize the OPness of a weapon variety,yet you stand behind an equipment variety?
Hypocrisy.



As for WP...

You reduce my costs by 75%,or buff my suit to assault levels. (Assaults survive longer for cheaper.)

Then mess with my income,that i need to run my glass cannon.

The main reason why I created this thread is because, I myself use a logi, and I can do insanely well with it. A 40k suit, and a heavy, I get 4000WP and half a million isk. I find that unfair. It's easy to make a cheap suit to make insane amounts of money with it.

as much negativity that's been directed at you OP, and as much as I disagree with your suggestions, you do bring up a legitimate point on the WP gain of Repair Tools and triage points, and the effectiveness of lower tier Rep Tools/Suits in gaining those WPs. To what degree this is an issues (or if it is even an overall issue) remains the subject of debate. I personally think that if indeed this is an issue, it lies not with the efficacy of the Repair Tools, nor even necessarily with the lack of ability to stop the repair tools, but rather with the way in which Triage Points are awarded. It is possible that a re-examination of how much repairing should net repeat Triage points is necessary (and maybe even how much WP triage should provide).

The main reason why I created this thread is because, I myself use a logi, and I can do insanely well with it. A 40k suit, and a heavy, I get 4000WP and half a million isk. I find that unfair. It's easy to make a cheap suit to make insane amounts of money with it.