DUST Search - Another shot at changing turrets

Doc DDD wrote:

Shield Tanks are underpowered

You have armor tanks trying to blow up armor tanks, and armor tanks that can miraculously get out of the red line for 30 seconds VS ONE SENSIBLE INFANTRY PLAYER. This is why you see only armor tanks in your data. Here is an idea, have Large Blaster do 75% Damage to Heavy Vehicles, then fix Shield Tanks so they don't need 4 hardeners to survive one swarmed for 15 seconds.

Large Rails need more range.

Othewise, the red line isn't deep enough to make using a tank worthwhile vs an organized team. Guy takes a dropship up to a tower with swarms, locks onto a tank twice, then immediately posts tanks are OP on forums when pilot drives away before his hardeners go down.

More thought should be given to balancing issues brought up by people that use vehicles.

Dont-be-a-D1CK wrote:

From PC battles..

Madrugar + Rail is the most common
Madrugar + Blaster probably second
Madrugar + Missile close enough to Blaster use (I put it down to situation and preferance)

Gunnlogi + Anything = Free WP for AV/HAV (though they do work if hiding behind a Madrugar/Redline)

Armour HAV the constant repair + stacked hardeners is causing a lot of issues, and can be tough to take down, if the driver is careful, it simply will not be taken down as it can outrep any damage you can deal to it unless there is a gang of AV.

-Missiles could use improvement, even stack DMG mods and it is an uphill battle taking out a good Madrugar fit
-Shield Regulators are almost useless due to high fitting costs that require too much sacrifice on current fits
-unsure of the 75% effectiveness Doc mentioned.. but if this increases shield defence Vs Blasters +1
-Module Stacking, remove this and you may have an instant fix Shocked

-For the 10th time I'll suggest making Blasters a Matar turret and you instantly have an Armour counter
-Along with giving Gal a PLC type turret which could make some interesting battles PLC turret Vs Rail/Missile

These tweaks could level the playing field quite a bit, any thoughts on these are welcome Pirate

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Toobar Zoobar The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 141	Posted - 2015.08.29 21:11:00 - [31] - Quote Megaman Trigger wrote: Toobar Zoobar wrote: Did you play this game in the early days? Since open beta. Well I played it since the earliest closed beta and back then there were railguns that had a splash of 900 HP. Look where we are now. Sure that was a bit OP but where we are now is UP. Specialization: Making typo's.
Megaman Trigger OSG Planetary Operations 635	Posted - 2015.08.29 21:27:00 - [32] - Quote There's no reason we couldn't have two variants of Missiles; direct damage focused with small radius and low splash for AV and lower direct, bigger radius and higher splash for AI work. Fitting the AI Missiles should mean that you can't be as effective at AV at the same time, and vice versa. Focus on excelling in one aspect/role but sacrifice in another. Purifier. First Class.
Toobar Zoobar The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 141	Posted - 2015.08.29 21:29:00 - [33] - Quote Megaman Trigger wrote: There's no reason we couldn't have two variants of Missiles; direct damage focused with small radius and low splash for AV and lower direct, bigger radius and higher splash for AI work. Fitting the AI Missiles should mean that you can't be as effective at AV at the same time, and vice versa. Focus on excelling in one aspect/role but sacrifice in another. I would support that. Specialization: Making typo's.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 10	Posted - 2015.08.30 05:50:00 - [34] - Quote If we ever get to finish the UHAV and DHAV hulls I would say make the DHAVs modify the turrets for AV work and bad for AI with UHAVs doing the opposite with vanilla tanks being middle ground. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Leovarian L Lavitz TRAILS AND TRIBULATIONS No Context 1	Posted - 2015.08.30 06:43:00 - [35] - Quote Give the small blaster a 2 meter splash radius with the splash damage equal to direct damage. This brings them into dropships, but only brings them up to the other turrets level Youtube: Dust 514 - You should Have Worn Proto One V One Emperor
haerr Ancient Exiles. 3	Posted - 2015.08.30 09:52:00 - [36] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: ok, i'll bite, armor tanks are op right now, so can armor tanks fit all turrets and still be competitive? Tweaks to turrets is something we can do Yes. On the other hand it doesn't matter which turret a shield tank fits since it is not going to be competitive regardless. Doc DDD wrote: Shield Tanks are underpowered You have armor tanks trying to blow up armor tanks, and armor tanks that can miraculously get out of the red line for 30 seconds VS ONE SENSIBLE INFANTRY PLAYER. This is why you see only armor tanks in your data. Here is an idea, have Large Blaster do 75% Damage to Heavy Vehicles, then fix Shield Tanks so they don't need 4 hardeners to survive one swarmed for 15 seconds. Large Rails need more range. Othewise, the red line isn't deep enough to make using a tank worthwhile vs an organized team. Guy takes a dropship up to a tower with swarms, locks onto a tank twice, then immediately posts tanks are OP on forums when pilot drives away before his hardeners go down. More thought should be given to balancing issues brought up by people that use vehicles. ^ The man speaks the truth. The fitting requirements of the vehicle shield regulators, the fitting requirements of the large shield booster, and the missing vehicle shield rechargers all seem like a particularly cruel joke. Dont-be-a-D1CK wrote: From PC battles.. Madrugar + Rail is the most common Madrugar + Blaster probably second Madrugar + Missile close enough to Blaster use (I put it down to situation and preferance) Gunnlogi + Anything = Free WP for AV/HAV (though they do work if hiding behind a Madrugar/Redline) Armour HAV the constant repair + stacked hardeners is causing a lot of issues, and can be tough to take down, if the driver is careful, it simply will not be taken down as it can outrep any damage you can deal to it unless there is a gang of AV. -Missiles could use improvement, even stack DMG mods and it is an uphill battle taking out a good Madrugar fit -Shield Regulators are almost useless due to high fitting costs that require too much sacrifice on current fits -unsure of the 75% effectiveness Doc mentioned.. but if this increases shield defence Vs Blasters +1 -Module Stacking, remove this and you may have an instant fix -For the 10th time I'll suggest making Blasters a Matar turret and you instantly have an Armour counter -Along with giving Gal a PLC type turret which could make some interesting battles PLC turret Vs Rail/Missile These tweaks could level the playing field quite a bit, any thoughts on these are welcome Good points from both Doc & D1ck, though I disagree with both of them on large blasters. Damage wise the large blaster isn't far off from where it needs to be (and as an anti-shield turret it feels about right against other armour tanks, though completely op against shields), the huge difference, in my opinion, comes from armour tanks having way to much reps but also, and perhaps more importantly, it being too easy to close the distance in tanks battles. This stems from tanks being too quick (base movement), from armour plates not having enough of a movement penalty (especially since the insanely strong bonus from Vehicle Armor Composition is in the game - even if you cut that bonus is half it will still be a must have at 5), from Fuel Injectors being to powerful, and of course from vehicle armour repair rates being to high. List of possible tweaks in no specific order: Double the armour plates movement penalties and Half the armour composition skill bonus (Implement vehicle ferroscale plates or have the light plates have far less movement penalty) Reduce the effectiveness of fuel injectors and reduce the effectiveness of armour reps (by making them active?) Fix the fitting cost of Shield Regulators (needs to also have a secondary bonus to reducing the downtime of shield boosters) Fix the fitting cost of Shield Boosters Implement Shield Rechargers (combined function with Shield Boost Amplifiers so that it will actually be worth giving up a slot for one) Give Shield Hardeners a small offline shield resistance bonus Passive DMG and/or RoF bonus modules for the low slots (ps d1ck: too bad about both Mejt and Appie lagging in the PCs yesterday - even though most of my rounds went straight through the damn tank it felt a bit cheeky railing Mejts tank while it was lag-glitch-spinning around so bad ^^ - railing those pesky adses felt pretty great though)
Dont-be-a-D1CK Dead Man's Game 150	Posted - 2015.08.30 10:21:00 - [37] - Quote ^^ I did notice Mejt's tank had lost it completely.. you have to love PC lag \o/ I agree the fuel injector could do with some reduction.. but not with lowering HAV movement speeds, Armour repair was in a better place as an active module imo, some new modules would be welcome to shake up fitting meta and if there was more variation, limiting module stacking would be an option. Shield tanks are not miles behind but tweaks to the activation interruptions on Boosters, along with Regulator fitting reduction + power diagnostic unit ?? (Shield +%/PGmod) and Shields would have them matching Armour mostly.. making Boosters // Repairs the go-to active tanking modules would be nice rather than hardeners being the main option ... most of all fix it.. don't just make something else OP Madrugar > Gunnlogi.. BUT! You cannot forget they should represent differnet playstyles and effectiveness is determined by how you use it, Armour being too simple to use along with the drawbacks to Shield modules should be the first fix.. before the hammer drops Ban me once, shame on me Ban me twice, shame on you !!!
Luther Mandrix WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL RUST415 631	Posted - 2015.08.30 10:41:00 - [38] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: If we ever get to finish the UHAV and DHAV hulls I would say make the DHAVs modify the turrets for AV work and bad for AI with UHAVs doing the opposite with vanilla tanks being middle ground. If you make super tanks then make a super easy kill spot on the tanks
Zeke Dunevent 0uter.Heaven 119	Posted - 2015.08.30 16:19:00 - [39] - Quote I'm not sure if this is the correct thread to bring this up in but considering we are speaking about vehicle turrets..... What are the chances of getting turret variants back in the game? It would go a long way toward vehicle customization and differentiation on the battlefield, and they were just fun. I think I know a lot. I can run just about anything.
Aidualc LATINOS KILLERS CORP RUST415 556	Posted - 2015.08.31 15:27:00 - [40] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: ok, i'll bite, armor tanks are op right now, so can armor tanks fit all turrets and still be competitive? Tweaks to turrets is something we can do Mr Don Rattati Sr.. I send a Ticket long time ago (since warlords 1.1) of a bug with the turret... (can't reload) If you configure the control as "Dutty Calls"... that will be fixed in one "thuesday ninja fix" ? thanks. -- Ecce Initio -- Tomate Pote -- *Respectu, Honorem, Value, Unionem*******

KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 2	Posted - 2015.09.02 02:20:00 - [41] - Quote Toobar Zoobar wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: ok, i'll bite, armor tanks are op right now, so can armor tanks fit all turrets and still be competitive? Tweaks to turrets is something we can do If you nerf armor tanks you'll watch your player base fall even further. That is an empty and unneeded threat. They/we will adapt, as before. And start looking for the new FOTM. Toobar Zoobar wrote: How about you buff shield tanks instead. Did you consider that? That is reasonable. Thanks for all the supporters. 07 KERO-TRADER is my official Eve character for Dust trading.
Toobar Zoobar The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 145	Posted - 2015.09.02 03:17:00 - [42] - Quote ^ It wasn't a threat. It's simply what's going to happen. I'm sick of vehicles getting nerfted. It feels like every update to vehicles now is a nerf. Where are all the enforcer an marauder HAVs and logi vehicles we were promised? We aren't getting any and I'm losing hope and the will to play this game. Specialization: Making typo's.
TIGER SHARK1501 Savage Bullet RUST415 363	Posted - 2015.09.02 03:19:00 - [43] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: ok, i'll bite, armor tanks are op right now, so can armor tanks fit all turrets and still be competitive? Tweaks to turrets is something we can do =ƒÿ¡
Tebu Gan 0uter.Heaven 1	Posted - 2015.09.02 14:09:00 - [44] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: ok, i'll bite, armor tanks are op right now, so can armor tanks fit all turrets and still be competitive? Tweaks to turrets is something we can do You should ask why armor tanks are OP and perhaps look at the changes you made to tanks. I still find it silly that your justification for making armor tanks OP was, "well armor is the last line of defense, once it's gone their done". Something to that effect. Never mind that they also have a shield buffer that helps in more ways than just acting as an additional buffer to incoming damage. In any case, tweaking turrets won't change a single thing. Unless of course your goal is to nerf the maddie down to the level of the gunnlogi. In which case, congratulations, you would have succeeded in making the gunnie the new tank of choice! Anyhow, there have been a million posts to this effect. Honestly tired of sounding like a broken record. Perhaps you could inform us as to YOUR ideas and plans for the future of tanks, because our opinions have been given time and time again. (BTW, I called OP maddies before you even released them!)


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