DUST Search - Our game types are redundant.

KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:

In the original Skirmish, one team (attackers) started out with an MCC that slowly approaches the outpost for docking, the other team (defenders) started out with control of all objectives. The attackers had to destroy both defense relays (a type of objective controlling all installations), then that unlocked the next stage in which new portion of the map was "unlocked." The attackers' objective then became to disable the null cannons that threatened to destroy the MCC before the docking.

I know its too late to expect anything as interesting or complex as the original Skirmish at this point, even when Dust had a full team of devs none of them ever made it a priority to bring back that type of gameplay, or to bring any genuinely new modes (Domination is just a tweaked Skirmish). There is a way I think the current Skirmish can be copy/pasted, and tweaked to produce something with similar gameplay as the original Skirmish 1.0:

A new version of Skirmish where the maps and objectives are as they are now, except one team (defenders) starts out with the null cannons under their control.

The other team (attackers) start with no objectives, but once they take control of an objective, the defenders cannot take it back (defenders can counter-hack while the objective is in a contested state however).

Attackers win if they take control of all objectives.

Defenders win if the null cannons destroy the attacker MCC before the attackers take all the objectives.

I suppose the attackers can also win if they quickly take the majority but not all of the objectives/null cannons, and the defenders lose because of the resulting damage to their MCC. Of course any side can also win by depleting enemy clones.

This game mode could be called "Assault"

PROOF OF CONCEPT FOR THIS GAME MODE HERE

Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+

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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 12	Posted - 2015.07.23 09:57:00 - [1] - Quote Domination and Acquisition are almost the same thing, which isn't surprising because the idea for Acquisition was first thought of as an upgrade to make Domination not be a stagnant suckfest, and it was not supposed to be it's own game type. There is this thread about the idea of cycling objectives for Domination, and the loading screen of the Legion gameplay demo mentions that the point moves around in their version of Domination. Having both Domination, and an improved version of Domination (Acquisition) is redundant, which is a problem because it means the playerbase is getting split more, which leads to longer queue times, and it makes it harder for matchmaking to do it's job properly. Even Domination just started out as just one of many Skirmish slight variations that was being tested back in beta. Acquisition is just a tweaked Domination, which is just a tweaked Skirmish. I am actually fine with new game types being just tweaked versions of older ones, but it's a problem with 3/4 of them are basically "2 teams try to capture this point, and hold it the longest." That is not real variety. The differences need to be more meaningful, though I should mention that I think Skirmish and Acquisition feel different enough compared to each other to warrant them both existing (though Domination is too close to both). What we need, and what we have needed for the past 3 years is an attack/defend game type. I think it needs to be attempted because it would add some actual variety to our game types, and variety is something we need to stay interested. From an old thread I made on the subject: Laziest way to add good game mode KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: In the original Skirmish, one team (attackers) started out with an MCC that slowly approaches the outpost for docking, the other team (defenders) started out with control of all objectives. The attackers had to destroy both defense relays (a type of objective controlling all installations), then that unlocked the next stage in which new portion of the map was "unlocked." The attackers' objective then became to disable the null cannons that threatened to destroy the MCC before the docking. I know its too late to expect anything as interesting or complex as the original Skirmish at this point, even when Dust had a full team of devs none of them ever made it a priority to bring back that type of gameplay, or to bring any genuinely new modes (Domination is just a tweaked Skirmish). There is a way I think the current Skirmish can be copy/pasted, and tweaked to produce something with similar gameplay as the original Skirmish 1.0: A new version of Skirmish where the maps and objectives are as they are now, except one team (defenders) starts out with the null cannons under their control. The other team (attackers) start with no objectives, but once they take control of an objective, the defenders cannot take it back (defenders can counter-hack while the objective is in a contested state however). Attackers win if they take control of all objectives. Defenders win if the null cannons destroy the attacker MCC before the attackers take all the objectives. I suppose the attackers can also win if they quickly take the majority but not all of the objectives/null cannons, and the defenders lose because of the resulting damage to their MCC. Of course any side can also win by depleting enemy clones. This game mode could be called "Assault" PROOF OF CONCEPT FOR THIS GAME MODE HERE Doesn't have to be this exact idea, but some kind of an attack/defend game type is needed. As for the problem of dividing the playerbase, and straining the matchmaking, Domination and Acquisition can be combined into a single queue, and Rattati once shared an idea (which I hated) to make Skirmish only for faction warfare, which I am prepared to accept if it means getting an attack/defend mode (though an attack/defend mode might be more appropriate for FW than Skirmish, but whatever). Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 20	Posted - 2015.07.23 11:40:00 - [2] - Quote Firstly....agreed in entirety. Secondly it's late so I'll post in proper tomorrow. Em shah tey et naGÇÖemsaer ek rahvi, amarr osedah gasi ubday pahk. Ekin tey vahka ijed div ema ziel. Et tey vamatal em.
DUST Fiend 17	Posted - 2015.07.23 11:52:00 - [3] - Quote DUST 514, where good ideas go to die
Shadowed Cola Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 465	Posted - 2015.07.23 13:10:00 - [4] - Quote I've been saying this since Uprising. Calling Domination Skirms down-syndrome cousin, and Acquisition is Skirm + Ambush It is all quite literally the same thing - which in essence is king of the hill. Take point, hold it. done. Ambush is the only difference, and it's just plain terrible.
Tech Ohm Eaven Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 1	Posted - 2015.07.23 15:52:00 - [5] - Quote no fun at ccp folks said no to many ideas over two years ago hey can we have the logi gun repair friendlies and damage enemies ccp says no fun can we have a logigun that shoots superglue balls and the heavies following the logi get to lol kill the superglue trapped enemies ccp says no fun can we have where we defend a coporate isk vault and the enemy team tries to steal isk or sp from the vault ccp says no fun for you can we get superglue rounds in a massdriver to defend an objective ccp says no fun for you can we have wolf traps to defend an objective ccp says no can we have where we steal coded messages and we get to send a meteriorte into an eve planet killing an industrial hub ccp said no rinse, repeat, rinse, till i got a ps4 good luck on your projects ccp
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 12	Posted - 2015.07.23 21:10:00 - [6] - Quote I wonder what the long term plan for game modes is (probably nothing) Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 20	Posted - 2015.07.23 21:22:00 - [7] - Quote Taking a look at some of my personally favourite game modes I can identify that man of them stand outside of the traditional 'symmetry' for arena based FPS shooters. Asymmetrical game modes with clear Attack and Defend Roles provide vastly more interesting content for those involved. I think it is pretty unsurprising that game modes like 'Demolition', 'Rush', and 'Base Capture' modes have become such prevalent parts of FPS games in the last few years. They offer interesting differences when compared to more basic and traditional modes. Em shah tey et naGÇÖemsaer ek rahvi, amarr osedah gasi ubday pahk. Ekin tey vahka ijed div ema ziel. Et tey vamatal em.
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 12	Posted - 2015.07.24 06:14:00 - [8] - Quote BITTERVETRAGE! Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+
KingBabar The Rainbow Effect 2	Posted - 2015.07.24 06:54:00 - [9] - Quote As with many other things in Dust, suffice to say, they should've listened more to us MAG vets... Spkr4theDead wrote: Says the guy that was quitting the game because CCP were nerfing fused locus grenades.
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 12	Posted - 2015.07.25 07:48:00 - [10] - Quote Our game modes make me a sad panda. Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+

KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 12	Posted - 2015.08.02 06:56:00 - [11] - Quote Bitterness intensifies Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+
Sgt Kirk Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 11	Posted - 2015.08.02 13:11:00 - [12] - Quote It really bothers me that there's no difference to being an attacker or defender as a DUST 514 player. There's not difference at all! At least in other games (thinking about battlefield) there may have not been many modes back in the day but it made up for it in overall diversity and the fact that Attacking and Defending in RUSH game mode felt different on either side. As I've always said, diversity = good Having the same objective and gameplay regardless of "game mode" is detrimental in keeping an entertained population. In DUST we dont have that, both sides to the same exact crap regardless of whether you're attacking and defending, and that's about as stagnant as playing TDM back to back. I know we cant bring it back in the current system for some reason but Skirmish 1.0 would be so needed right now. -A vote for me is a vote for us You can vote for CPM 2 [here]
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 12	Posted - 2015.08.02 19:17:00 - [13] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: It really bothers me that there's no difference to being an attacker or defender as a DUST 514 player. There's not difference at all! At least in other games (thinking about battlefield) there may have not been many modes back in the day but it made up for it in overall diversity and the fact that Attacking and Defending in RUSH game mode felt different on either side. As I've always said, diversity = good Having the same objective and gameplay regardless of "game mode" is detrimental in keeping an entertained population. In DUST we dont have that, both sides to the same exact crap regardless of whether you're attacking and defending, and that's about as stagnant as playing TDM back to back. I know we cant bring it back in the current system for some reason but Skirmish 1.0 would be so needed right now. Agreed, now I want to play Rush in BF. Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+
Talos Vagheitan Ancient Exiles. 2	Posted - 2015.08.02 19:23:00 - [14] - Quote Perhaps Domination and Acquisition could be merged into a single Q, similar to Ambush and Ambush OMS CPM Platform
Alaika Arbosa No Context 2	Posted - 2015.08.02 19:34:00 - [15] - Quote Remove the ability to spawn on a lettered Objective entirely. Give the Defending team all of the installations on the map from the start (Letter Objectives or otherwise) Merge One-and-Only into Skirmish (utilize Acquisition rotation for single Objective Skirmishes). Remove clone counts from Skirmish and slow down the MCC damage tick ^^Those four changes would work a world of good for the game IMHO. I <3 introducing reddots to ragdoll physics!
DeadlyAztec11 8	Posted - 2015.08.02 21:30:00 - [16] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: Remove the ability to spawn on a lettered Objective entirely. Give the Defending team all of the installations on the map from the start (Letter Objectives or otherwise) Merge One-and-Only into Skirmish (utilize Acquisition rotation for single Objective Skirmishes). Remove clone counts from Skirmish and slow down the MCC damage tick ^^Those four changes would work a world of good for the game IMHO. Skirmish as a gamemode is perfect in my opinion. This game is balanced completely around Skirmish. I think the current iteration of Skirmish should be held. Put your flags up in the sky. And wave them side to side. Show the world where you're from. Show the world we are one.
Alaika Arbosa No Context 2	Posted - 2015.08.02 21:47:00 - [17] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: Remove the ability to spawn on a lettered Objective entirely. Give the Defending team all of the installations on the map from the start (Letter Objectives or otherwise) Merge One-and-Only into Skirmish (utilize Acquisition rotation for single Objective Skirmishes). Remove clone counts from Skirmish and slow down the MCC damage tick ^^Those four changes would work a world of good for the game IMHO. Skirmish as a gamemode is perfect in my opinion. This game is balanced completely around Skirmish. I think the current iteration of Skirmish should be held. Skirmish needs worked on if you ask me, even if they only changed the ability to spawn on lettered objectives or removed clone counts it would be a significant improvement. I <3 introducing reddots to ragdoll physics!
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 12	Posted - 2015.08.03 22:56:00 - [18] - Quote Talos Vagheitan wrote: Perhaps Domination and Acquisition could be merged into a single Q, similar to Ambush and Ambush OMS Already had that in the OP, but glad we agree. Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 2	Posted - 2015.08.03 23:09:00 - [19] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Sgt Kirk wrote: It really bothers me that there's no difference to being an attacker or defender as a DUST 514 player. There's not difference at all! At least in other games (thinking about battlefield) there may have not been many modes back in the day but it made up for it in overall diversity and the fact that Attacking and Defending in RUSH game mode felt different on either side. As I've always said, diversity = good Having the same objective and gameplay regardless of "game mode" is detrimental in keeping an entertained population. In DUST we dont have that, both sides to the same exact crap regardless of whether you're attacking and defending, and that's about as stagnant as playing TDM back to back. I know we cant bring it back in the current system for some reason but Skirmish 1.0 would be so needed right now. Agreed, now I want to play Rush in BF. Also agree. At the very least we could get rid of the aqu/dom redundancy. Personally don't even care if attack & defense are not perfectly balanced in a game mode - everybody gets them in the same proportion in the long run. But we'd have to fix another problem first: match quitting. Personally i'd like to see this done through a real contract system. PSN: RationalSpark
Onesimus Tarsus Vader's-Fist 3	Posted - 2015.08.03 23:14:00 - [20] - Quote Round Robin Ambush: Starting teams get 150 clones, team with clone(s) remaining is held while the losing team is booted for the next team in queue. Team wins three waves, or the downtime hits, match ends. I have ONE PC match to my credit. ONE.

KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 12	Posted - 2015.08.04 21:59:00 - [21] - Quote Onesimus Tarsus wrote: Round Robin Ambush: Starting teams get 150 clones, team with clone(s) remaining is held while the losing team is booted for the next team in queue. Team wins three waves, or the downtime hits, match ends. Interesting idea, but I think we need something where we attack or defend an objective. Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 20	Posted - 2015.08.04 22:07:00 - [22] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Onesimus Tarsus wrote: Round Robin Ambush: Starting teams get 150 clones, team with clone(s) remaining is held while the losing team is booted for the next team in queue. Team wins three waves, or the downtime hits, match ends. Interesting idea, but I think we need something where we attack or defend an objective. Very much so. Something asymmetrical with very clear roles for each team. Em shah tey et naGÇÖemsaer ek rahvi, amarr osedah gasi ubday pahk. Ekin tey vahka ijed div ema ziel. Et tey vamatal em.
Squagga Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 1	Posted - 2015.08.04 23:15:00 - [23] - Quote Meh, the idea of asking for stuff, like new content, is lost on me. New/better game modes. New/better maps. New weapons. If you ask CCP for something, they just say "Hey, guys. You know all that stuff you wanted? Well, instead. We're going to give you a bunch of stuff, you didn't even know you didn't want!" n++pâçGòÉS+ÇShields, the silent killer.n++pâçGòÉS+Ç Gû¼Gû¼+¦GòÉGòÉGòÉn¦ñ Caldari Loyalist Gû¼Gû¼+¦GòÉGòÉGòÉn¦ñ
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 12	Posted - 2015.08.05 08:47:00 - [24] - Quote Squagga wrote: Meh, the idea of asking for stuff, like new content, is lost on me. New/better game modes. New/better maps. New weapons. If you ask CCP for something, they just say "Hey, guys. You know all that stuff you wanted? Well, instead. We're going to give you a bunch of stuff, you didn't even know you didn't want!" I'll still risk it Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+
CommanderBolt KILL-EM-QUICK Rise Of Legion. 3	Posted - 2015.08.05 09:38:00 - [25] - Quote People have been calling for something like this even since we lost the original skirmish back in beta. Many many times over the years there has been a consistent theme among the player base - We would all love an attack / defence type game-mode. Lets be honest, this game hasn't struggled because the game is inherently a bad idea, on the contrary the game has an amazing idea behind it. It's just there has been a lack of focused direction and a seeming lack to put in resources and to try things. If only this game was multi-platform or at least on the PC (or even the PS4 now) I truly feel that DUST could have been a revolutionary FPS game. A lack of direction, a lack of focus and a lack of resources and advertisement has really cost CCP when it came to DUST. Bugs and issues that have been around since beta are still here. Things of that nature are inexcusable but this is something we have come to accept in the DUST community. "Madness how we turned our common-ground into a battle-ground.." - Essa
I-Shayz-I I----------I 6	Posted - 2015.08.05 09:56:00 - [26] - Quote I want a game mode with big walls and a ton of HP that you have to "breach" -Use vehicles to take them down -Heavy/breach weaponry -Or stealthily make your way inside the base to hack the terminals Conker Live and Reloaded did it wonderfully, where one team always spawned at the base, and the other team unlocked additional spawns as they breached inwards up the beach. Star Wars Battlefront 2 did it pretty well too with the flying into enemy hangars to disable shields and engines from the inside, or flying around as a bomber blasting away at the outside. 7162 wp with a Repair Tool! -- Vote for Cross!
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 12	Posted - 2015.08.06 04:10:00 - [27] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: I want a game mode with big walls and a ton of HP that you have to "breach" -Use vehicles to take them down -Heavy/breach weaponry -Or stealthily make your way inside the base to hack the terminals Conker Live and Reloaded did it wonderfully, where one team always spawned at the base, and the other team unlocked additional spawns as they breached inwards up the beach. Star Wars Battlefront 2 did it pretty well too with the flying into enemy hangars to disable shields and engines from the inside, or flying around as a bomber blasting away at the outside. Neat! Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 12	Posted - 2015.08.06 23:41:00 - [28] - Quote I have a dream that Legion will somehow become an actual thing, and that thing will be ported to PS4, and it will come with a complex and interesting attack/defend mode in addition to t's other promised pipe-dreams. Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+
Tech Ohm Eaven Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 1	Posted - 2015.08.07 17:52:00 - [29] - Quote Squagga wrote: Meh, the idea of asking for stuff, like new content, is lost on me. New/better game modes. New/better maps. New weapons. If you ask CCP for something, they just say "Hey, guys. You know all that stuff you wanted? Well, instead. We're going to give you a bunch of stuff, you didn't even know you didn't want!" OH YEAH BRO!!!!! ccp dev 1 what we got? ccp dev 2 we got requests for new wepons, maps, vehicles, suits with thousands of likes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ccp dev 1 MEH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! what else? ccp dev 2 we got a single request with ONE like asking about new depos ccp dev 1 HOLY MOTHER OF KITTENS!!!!!!!! GET ON THOSE DEPOS RIGHT THE MEOW NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and what did we get? WHAT DID WE GET?????????????????? retooled depos! depos ccp? seriously? ccp? DEPOS? MEH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
DeadlyAztec11 8	Posted - 2015.08.07 18:55:00 - [30] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: Remove the ability to spawn on a lettered Objective entirely. Give the Defending team all of the installations on the map from the start (Letter Objectives or otherwise) Merge One-and-Only into Skirmish (utilize Acquisition rotation for single Objective Skirmishes). Remove clone counts from Skirmish and slow down the MCC damage tick ^^Those four changes would work a world of good for the game IMHO. Skirmish as a gamemode is perfect in my opinion. This game is balanced completely around Skirmish. I think the current iteration of Skirmish should be held. Skirmish needs worked on if you ask me, even if they only changed the ability to spawn on lettered objectives or removed clone counts it would be a significant improvement. Spawning on the letter is key. It's the difference between having to rely on your teammates for excellent uplinks or not. Currently there are not nearly enough players placing acceptable uplinks for this change to be beneficial. Put your flags up in the sky. And wave them side to side. Show the world where you're from. Show the world we are one.



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