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Varoth Drac
Dead Man's Game
1
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Posted - 2015.07.14 13:48:00 -
[1] - Quote
So, I think what you are saying is, given the choice between damage mods or a proto weapon, it's best to go for damage mods.
I completely agree with this, not to mention the much higher cost of proto weapons.
For new players I definitely advise skilling up modules and fitting before going straight to pro weapons. And even then, the weapons skills are mainly good for unlocking proficiency, rather than actually using pro weapons.
As for them being pointless, ask yourself this. How about damage mods and proto weapons together? So you see, they aren't pointless if you have good fitting space.
Also, you want to get complex damage mods on that commando. Or atleast, enhanced would be better than Krin's, since you have dual light weapons. |
Varoth Drac
Dead Man's Game
1
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Posted - 2015.07.14 13:52:00 -
[2] - Quote
Mina Longstrike wrote:That's not how it works. You're adding things wrong and not accounting for stacking penalty. Commando skill applies first (as bonuses apply highest to lowest, unpenalized to penalized) and it only applies to laser weapons. The krins damage mods apply next and have a stacking penalty because all percentile modules have a stacking penalty except for the jump speed portion of myo's which is bugged and yet to be fixed. Scr proficiency and warbarge proficiency apply last as they're not part of the actual damage formula, but they modify the profile portion. So [basedmg] * [commando skill] * [damage mod1(stackingpenaltycheck)] *[damagemod2(stackingpenalty check)] = final 'damage', which is then modified by weapon profile. [weapon profile] * [proficiency skill(when applicable)] * [warbarge bonus(if applicable)]. A proto weapon will still start out 10% ahead of a mlt weapon. http://wiki.dust514.info/index.php?title=Stacking_Penalties is a handy link just for figuring out individual damage mod values. But in short what you're getting is 38 * 1.06 * 1.04(1.0) * [1.04(*~.87) = 1.0348] = 43.349 43.349 * [1.20 * 1.15 * 1.05] = 62.812 vs shield or 43.349 * [.8 * 1.05] = 36.41 vs armor You get 2.5x damage off of a charged scr shot.
Yes the OP calculated it incorrectly, but the order in which you apply the modifiers makes no difference.
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Varoth Drac
Dead Man's Game
1
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Posted - 2015.07.14 14:01:00 -
[3] - Quote
ThePlayerkyle13 wrote:
It's an Economical point of view so you don't have to be spending so much ISK.
If you are referring to using Krin's instead of enhanced damage mods, I agree.
If you are referring to using proto weapons, the effects of damage bonuses need to be applied to the proto weapons as well. This actually works against your argument as a proto weapon will gain more damage from a mod than a lower tier weapon would. |
Varoth Drac
Dead Man's Game
1
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Posted - 2015.07.14 14:18:00 -
[4] - Quote
To Mina:
With the exception of the stacking penalty [1+(0.04*0.87)], the order makes no difference to the final result. I agree it affects ease of understanding though.
To Balistyc:
Weapon tier only affects damage. Except to militia weapons which have smaller clips, and some exceptions:
Nova knives have shorter charge.
Mass drivers have larger splash.
Can't think of any more. Can't remember about laser rifles. |
Varoth Drac
Dead Man's Game
1
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Posted - 2015.07.14 14:45:00 -
[5] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:
Second: the difference between the duvolle and the Militia is...
597 DPS v. Shields at max skill with three complex damage mods on an assault.
The Duvolle is...
677 DPS v. Shields at max skill with three complex damage mods on an assault.
That's a difference of 100 DPS. that can make or break an attack as far as difference in efficiency goes
I have a spreadsheet that I can simply plug in whatever rifle damage values I want and it will crap out the final DPS.
Are you sure this is correct? I though proto weapons were just 10% more powerful. This is more like a 12% difference.
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Varoth Drac
Dead Man's Game
1
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Posted - 2015.07.14 15:13:00 -
[6] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:
The higher the base damage, the more a multiplier increases the damage. it's basic arithmetic.
Militia starts at 30, ends at 44.8 damage per bullet.
Duvolle starts at 34, ends at 50.77 damage/bullet
the difference adds up quick when you sh*t them out at a rate of 600+/minute
I was talking about the percentage dps increase with tier, so the modifiers and rate of fire make no difference (as they are the same across tiers).
But your explanation does illustrate the reason. 34 damage per shot is 13% more damage than 30. So a Duvolle will do 13% more dps than a militia AR. 597*1.13 = 675 dps. Which is about what you said, 677 dps. Presumably the extra 2dps is due to rounding. |
Varoth Drac
Dead Man's Game
1
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Posted - 2015.07.14 15:32:00 -
[7] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:
676.9200533 is the exact three-mod Shield DPS of the duvolle.
597.2824 is the exact three-mod Shield DPS of the militia
That's great. 34/30 = 1.133333333
1.133333333 * 597.2824 = 676.9200533
So a proto AR is 13.3% (to 1 d.p.) more powerful than militia.
30*1.133 = 34 (rounded).
This makes sense. Damage modifiers, proficiency, etc. don't come into it.
I was wrong when I thought it was only a 10% increase. Proto is more powerful than I thought. Makes me feel better about getting owned.  |
Varoth Drac
Dead Man's Game
1
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Posted - 2015.07.14 15:41:00 -
[8] - Quote
Shadowed Cola wrote:Varoth Drac wrote:So, I think what you are saying is, given the choice between damage mods or a proto weapon, it's best to go for damage mods.
I completely agree with this, not to mention the much higher cost of proto weapons.
For new players I definitely advise skilling up modules and fitting before going straight to pro weapons. And even then, the weapons skills are mainly good for unlocking proficiency, rather than actually using pro weapons.
As for them being pointless, ask yourself this. How about damage mods and proto weapons together? So you see, they aren't pointless if you have good fitting space.
Also, you want to get complex damage mods on that commando. Or atleast, enhanced would be better than Krin's, since you have dual light weapons. You're giving up a high slot to make your ADV a Proto. basically, is it worth the health loss just to make a cheaper weapon 5%-8% more effective? Even with the HMG who has the best stacking for DPS with it's insane RoF - you're better off tanking.
The assumption was the high slot would be left empty when using the proto weapon, due to fitting constraints. At least that's what I thought in order for the OP to make sense.
With the increased number of slots on standard gear, this is a valid point for any newer players who may feel that getting a proto weapon is the best way to upgrade their fit.
It's also worth noting, that whilst you can beef up suits with PG and CPU upgrades, any upgrade in effectiveness will come with a heavy price increase.
But yes, often damage mods aren't the best option. Though the Krin'S damage mod is pretty good, being free. |
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