So, I'm not as well versed in Amarr Scouts as I'd like to be but I've noticed a few glaring issues.

Passive precision bonus is awesome but.... Without an additional bump up to range it pretty much under-utilizes the bonus. Here's the layout, for those who don't know:

Long-Range Scans: 30m / 35.1 Precision
Medium-Range Scans: 15m / 27 Precision
Short-Range Scans: 6m / 13.5 Precision

So in order to get the most out of that precision you sort of have to run Range Amplifiers, which are low slot modules. This forces you to take away from your potential survivability (armor modules) and profile (profile dampeners). So, either way you're taking away from your potential to live through skirmishes and confrontations. Which wouldn't be bad if it weren't for a few other factors.

One of which is that Cloak Fields reduce your scan range pretty severely - that limits your ability to reduce physical visibility, primarily your only fallback in the eventuality that the enemy is fielding Gallente Logis with Active Scanners. But even still, if you're scanned, you have a chevron on your head, so that point is moot.

The other is that your scan range is significantly shorter than that of an Active Scanner, even being 360 degrees, and the value of that lessened by the lack of WP accrual. You have to gain WP by other means.

Now, make no mistake, I started running Amarr Scout because of the additional squads brought in with Warlords 1.2 (as well as a perpetual fear that Gal Logis are going to be nerfed into oblivion), but I've noticed that it is -very hard- to find a proper place for this thing on the battlefield. In order to get the most out of your bonus and support your team you have to basically be -ON THE FRONTLINE-. This is difficult and hard to do because of the Scouts' natural low survivability accompanied by the fact that Range Amplifiers and Armor Plates take away from your potential to reduce your Profile low enough to be practical.

Honestly, considering that both the Caldari Scout and the Gallente Scout get dual EWAR bonuses (Range/Profile and Precision/Profile, respectively) I think the Amarr Scout could get a major benefit from a dual bonuses of Precision/Range while also completing sort of a 'Scout Triangle' in a way.

Thoughts?

Amour modules on a scout,theres already a decent amount of armour on it already. Just use a damp and a rep with maybe a kincat and scanner. Easy as pie.

I love the amarr scout. Its pretty versatile. If youre only running numbers thats your problem. It lives through stuff it shouldnt and has a blast doing it.

The fact that you use a scanner further proves its redundancy.

If you run scouts with nothing but ewar in mind, you're gonna have a bad time.

Apart from the egotistical and arrogant aura that is frequently put off anytime anyone -NOT- a known scout discusses scouts (seriously, you guys always come off like your opinion is the only one that matters) I threw together a video of one of my main problems.

I took a step back from Gallente Logis to run Amarr Scouts now that we have larger squads and the passive scans are more beneficial to the team and put a suit together for what I intended to be Anti-Scout purposes. While I don't get the WP benefits of Active Scanners, I do get the benefit of not being flanked by hostile scouts as it has sort of become a problem as of late with some of our enemies.

Turns out, however, the Amarr Scout isn't even good at that job, as this video will show. I had to fall back because I was completely out of ammo and no-one was running nanohives (our Logi got booted from FW after an unfortunate warbarge strike and was, coincidentally, also our squad lead). I didn't see the Minmatar Scout on Scans until I saw him physically with my own two eyes. Confrontation ensued and I won by the skin of my teeth (also because he overheated his weapon).

So, if the Gallente Logi with Active Scanners nets WP and is generally better for distance scanning... and the Amarr Scout can't even pick up other scouts with two precision enhancers.. I'm starting to wonder what I spent my SP on. Overall this Scout, by itself, is contradictory in too many ways.

- Cloaking kills Scan Range
- Scan Range isn't high enough as it is to compliment it's low survivability
- Range and Profile Dampeners go in the slots that are used by modules that compliment it's survivability

It feels like the Amarr Scout is either trying to be too many things at once or simply trying to be something it's not.

Honestly the only fundamental value I've found from this specialization is running with my squad and keeping tabs on anything within scan range - but it is a VERY low WP accrual build that focuses mostly on assists. I generally hate Shotguns and Knives with a passion and refuse to run them and went into the Amarr Scout because I wanted the bonuses and figured it's more tanky-nature (at least by Scout standards) was well suited for my CQC affinity and general playstyle.

Think I was very, very wrong though.

The fact that you use a scanner further proves its redundancy.

actually using your passive scans to pick up enemies then giving that information to your team by scanning them can be a more viable option then to be a gallogi with perma scan, and it gives you the option to counter some well dampened scouts that may sneak by some scans

I do not support the dual precision/profile bonuses due to the fact that the percentage you get for precision is already high 25% reduction is already better then a complex precision mod, range would make it almost OP as anything getting anywhere near it would be in danger

if it did receive the range not only would it step on the toes of the cal scout (which it already did by taking its main bonus) it would also need to get nerfed to say 2% or 3% and only gain about 5% extra range per level which would make it almost useless

actually using your passive scans to pick up enemies then giving that information to your team by scanning them can be a more viable option then to be a gallogi with perma scan, and it gives you the option to counter some well dampened scouts that may sneak by some scans

I do not support the dual precision/profile bonuses due to the fact that the percentage you get for precision is already high 25% reduction is already better then a complex precision mod, range would make it almost OP as anything getting anywhere near it would be in danger

if it did receive the range not only would it step on the toes of the cal scout (which it already did by taking its main bonus) it would also need to get nerfed to say 2% or 3% and only gain about 5% extra range per level which would make it almost useless

You went wrong with having 300 plus armour. Plus ewar would be to easy if passive scans worked like you think they would. So learn to use your eyes to see instead of relying on scans

ur a ******* moron deadcatz

They really are lost.

I'm still not sure why Range Amps haven't been unnerfed. With the cloak killing scan range, there's no longer any real reason for them to be so trash.

Scouts were balanced against each other to the extent which made the bonuses effectively non existent against each other. Scouts were not balanced against other frames or to function in any particular role (except min).

The cal, gal, ama scouts as they currently stand are equally scout hunters, it takes the same amount of dampeners to hide from each other, it takes the same amount of precision mods to catch each other, I mean whoever the numbers guy was should get a raise, its incredible tight, I'm just telling you this to keep this in mind for the next few parts.

The reason why the Amarr scout ranks low is because low profile numbers protects you against scanners and high precision is rather pointless when the scanning war is equal between all three, it translates to a lower position for Ama scouts against non scouts. The cal scout is also placed low due to how critically vital low slots are for scout survivability. CCP also made it so each of the 3 scouts had to invest heavily in ewar mods for both lows and highs.

Giving any scout range + precision is awesome and makes sense in my book, but it in fact does break the triad as it currently sits because how fragile/tight they designed the racials. Since 3 of the 4 scouts were designed around scans and were balanced around each other, they is clearly going to be only one winner within the 3, its like having 3 suits with different boosts to a single specific weapon, one way of boosting it will be better overall. Since they are the same between scouts, their value is currently determined by how they stand against non scouts. This is why the gallente scout is the best scout because it is tied in the scanning department but better suited against other suits since the cal and ama scout both compete for the exact same role bonus but come up short against the gal.

The bonus you suggested with either have no major impact, or simply unseat the gal scout and simply turn the meta into ama/min instead of gal/min. None of which are particularly appealing, though the gal scout tears would be fun for the first week should they be replaced.

If you are looking to break the current scanning triad meta, I'm all for it. By having all 3 equal in scanning by default there will be a superior scout within the three that will invalidate the other two. So the base suggestion barring no change to the other scouts, will not really balance scouts.

More or less this is just info for you guys to turn over as you discuss the topic. I will be very interested in the creativity that might come out of the thread.

Good luck theorycrafting

Theory crafting is useless considering anyone who replies with numbers never uses the actual suit they are spitting numbers for as a favorite or well used suit.

If that is the prevailing thought, wouldn't that just make this whole thread pointless?

Also having experts in various fields general helps with preventing role bleeding suggestions. So I don't consider it useless, its also part of the job of the devs to be able to make the smarter calls.