DUST Search - why are maddys invincible?

alten hilt wrote:

On a direct hit that damages armor (meaning the shields are down), give the PLC a damage-over-time (DoT) mechanic, or maybe a disable-reps-for-a-time (DRfaT?) mechanic . This would simulate the plasma nature of the PLC very well, would enhance it's roll vs Vehicles while not improving it against infantry, and make PLC's more viable as an AV weapon against armor in general. Personally, I think the DoT should only apply to armor because the PLC feels well balanced against shield tanked vehicles (except maybe dropships, but this is due more to the PLC's slow projectile speed, than it's damage).

It's very hard to hit a moving target with the PLC, and the slow reload time (even on Gal Mando 5 and Rapid Reload 5) makes it nearly impossible to get the follow-up shot. If that follow up shot is against armor, then it is most likely that the damage from the first shot has already been repaired. With a DoT mechanic, the first shot that gets into armor disables reps or damages the vehicle for another 3 - 6 seconds; just enough time for a skilled PLC shot to land additional damage (adding more DoT, maybe stacking? or maybe just a reset?). A smart tanker will still be able to mitigate the threat, but at least now it will be a threat, and not just a laughable easy kill for the tanker.

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emm kay Direct Action Resources 352	Posted - 2015.07.06 16:23:00 - [1] - Quote I've never seen it this bad. I just got to face off against a madrugar g-1 with a commando. I had 2x Kubo Plc it had it's hardeners on permanantly. I shoot at it. It repairs all damage before I'm done reloading. I have commando V and rapid reload 3 on the PLC. it kills me, with full health. I never missed a shot. seriously. is AV only good against LAVs now? There is a reason you never see me in battle. it's because I see you first.
Starlight Burner Arrary of Clusters 336	Posted - 2015.07.06 16:24:00 - [2] - Quote 2 Lai Dai Packed AV nades to the ass have been my problem solver to tanks. CEO of Arrary of Clusters, a close relations corporation Caldari Factional Warfare, enlist today! Thank you for DUST
emm kay Direct Action Resources 352	Posted - 2015.07.06 16:37:00 - [3] - Quote Starlight Burner wrote: 2 Lai Dai Packed AV nades to the ass have been my problem solver to tanks. don't you think that one option when dealing with tanks is a bit low There is a reason you never see me in battle. it's because I see you first.
alten hilt Nos Nothi 420	Posted - 2015.07.06 17:02:00 - [4] - Quote I'm with you. If I'm running my Gal Commando with PLC, I don't even bother with Madrugers unless there are people with swarms or forges about. I've never popped a perma-hardened Maddy. Gal Mando 5, All 5's in PLC. As Starlight said, I've had better luck in my Min Assault PLC fit, because 3x Packed AV nades. I fire my PLC, let it reload, then switch to nades, then back to the PLC, however, even with this fit, I've only killed one or two Maddies. I'm not qualified to speak to the AV / Vehicle balance because I'm primarily an AV guy with only old vehicle experience. But I feel your pain and it does feel like the dedicated tankers are impossible to kill. BTW, my Minmatar Commando with swarms is still better AV for everything than my Gal Commando with PLC. It's sad, but true. Now, on a side note, if CCP switched swarm launchers from fire-and-forget to user-guided, I'd be a happy happy Minmatar AVer. I just hate how easy the swarm launcher is. I like my weapons to require skill. Surviving Dust: Tutorial Series
Omega Black Zero Rebels New Republic The Ditanian Alliance 177	Posted - 2015.07.06 17:16:00 - [5] - Quote I'd get behind a manual aimed swarm launcher ala tow launcher or laser guided from the launcher.
General Mosquito Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 61	Posted - 2015.07.06 17:21:00 - [6] - Quote emm kay wrote: Starlight Burner wrote: 2 Lai Dai Packed AV nades to the ass have been my problem solver to tanks. don't you think that one option when dealing with tanks is a bit low Proxie traps really help as well, although I don't think you landed 4 shots as fast you suggest. Its a shame that the best suit for tank killing is a scout suit, but CCP is what it is. They made getting close the prereq for tank killing, and up close is the only place tanks are not terrible versus infantry, especially fatsuits. General Butt Naked - Biomassed The Attorney General - Biomassed when unbanned Only 9 more alts to go.
CommanderBolt KILL-EM-QUICK Rise Of Legion. 3	Posted - 2015.07.06 17:25:00 - [7] - Quote PLC is not suited to take on Armour tanks. Try those bad boys against shield tanks and watch the Kubo cannons strip shields and make FACE REKT "Madness how we turned our common-ground into a battle-ground.." - Essa
Mejt0 Dead Man's Game 1	Posted - 2015.07.06 17:44:00 - [8] - Quote I know.. use a tank next time. Don't have sp in them? Well, that's your problem. Ps. Single hardened maddy suck balls versus other tanks. It's a fit for AI. Loyal to The State Member of State Protectorate // Belongs to Patriots power bloc Civire Bloodline
Cat Merc Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 17	Posted - 2015.07.06 17:48:00 - [9] - Quote PLC is the only AV weapon that requires you to pick your targets. Try it against an armor tank, and you will fail. It ain't a forge or swarm that can deal with both shields and armor reasonably. "To find out if they consent, poke the giant boobs. If they jiggle once, that means no. If twice, that means yes" - Anon
emm kay Direct Action Resources 352	Posted - 2015.07.06 17:54:00 - [10] - Quote Mejt0 wrote: I know.. use a tank next time. Don't have sp in them? Well, that's your problem. Ps. Single hardened maddy suck balls versus other tanks. It's a fit for AI. I pity your thought process. There is a reason you never see me in battle. it's because I see you first.

Vesta Opalus Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 855	Posted - 2015.07.06 17:54:00 - [11] - Quote emm kay wrote: Starlight Burner wrote: 2 Lai Dai Packed AV nades to the ass have been my problem solver to tanks. don't you think that one option when dealing with tanks is a bit low Not to mention it wont actually kill the tank unless you have time to deploy a nanohive, wait for it to start spewing ammo, begin throwing AV nades, AND the tank is ******** enough to stand there and take it up the ass for 4+ nades AND you dont miss a single nade.
Vesta Opalus Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 855	Posted - 2015.07.06 17:57:00 - [12] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: PLC is the only AV weapon that requires you to pick your targets. Try it against an armor tank, and you will fail. It ain't a forge or swarm that can deal with both shields and armor reasonably. Though yes, maddys are a bit too stronk from what my tanker friends tell me. There is no AV in the game that will kill a madruger with its hardeners up, unless you have 2-3 people hitting it at once. Its not about armor vs. shields, the madruger is just OP. This idea that somehow the weapon damage profile results in invincible tanks is nuts, weapons should be "better or worse" at killing whatever they are good at killing, they shouldnt be "able or unable", or in the madrugers case just "unable".
Cat Merc Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 17	Posted - 2015.07.06 18:09:00 - [13] - Quote Vesta Opalus wrote: Cat Merc wrote: PLC is the only AV weapon that requires you to pick your targets. Try it against an armor tank, and you will fail. It ain't a forge or swarm that can deal with both shields and armor reasonably. Though yes, maddys are a bit too stronk from what my tanker friends tell me. There is no AV in the game that will kill a madruger with its hardeners up, unless you have 2-3 people hitting it at once. Its not about armor vs. shields, the madruger is just OP. This idea that somehow the weapon damage profile results in invincible tanks is nuts, weapons should be "better or worse" at killing whatever they are good at killing, they shouldnt be "able or unable", or in the madrugers case just "unable". I... don't think you understood what I was saying? Where in that was I saying anything about armor vs shields? Where was I saying that the maddy is fine? Really, your response has literally nothing to do with what I said. "To find out if they consent, poke the giant boobs. If they jiggle once, that means no. If twice, that means yes" - Anon
emm kay Direct Action Resources 352	Posted - 2015.07.06 18:20:00 - [14] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Vesta Opalus wrote: Cat Merc wrote: PLC is the only AV weapon that requires you to pick your targets. Try it against an armor tank, and you will fail. It ain't a forge or swarm that can deal with both shields and armor reasonably. Though yes, maddys are a bit too stronk from what my tanker friends tell me. There is no AV in the game that will kill a madruger with its hardeners up, unless you have 2-3 people hitting it at once. Its not about armor vs. shields, the madruger is just OP. This idea that somehow the weapon damage profile results in invincible tanks is nuts, weapons should be "better or worse" at killing whatever they are good at killing, they shouldnt be "able or unable", or in the madrugers case just "unable". I... don't think you understood what I was saying? Where in that was I saying anything about armor vs shields? Where was I saying that the maddy is fine? Really, your response has literally nothing to do with what I said. highlighted for easier reading There is a reason you never see me in battle. it's because I see you first.
Mejt0 Dead Man's Game 1	Posted - 2015.07.06 18:21:00 - [15] - Quote emm kay wrote: Mejt0 wrote: I know.. use a tank next time. Don't have sp in them? Well, that's your problem. Ps. Single hardened maddy suck balls versus other tanks. It's a fit for AI. I pity your thought process. When you have AI and AV tank fits, one will deal with AV (infantry) more effectively. Now you tell me which one will it be? Hint : it is not the second one. Loyal to The State Member of State Protectorate // Belongs to Patriots power bloc Civire Bloodline
Mejt0 Dead Man's Game 1	Posted - 2015.07.06 18:26:00 - [16] - Quote emm kay wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Vesta Opalus wrote: Cat Merc wrote: PLC is the only AV weapon that requires you to pick your targets. Try it against an armor tank, and you will fail. It ain't a forge or swarm that can deal with both shields and armor reasonably. Though yes, maddys are a bit too stronk from what my tanker friends tell me. There is no AV in the game that will kill a madruger with its hardeners up, unless you have 2-3 people hitting it at once. Its not about armor vs. shields, the madruger is just OP. This idea that somehow the weapon damage profile results in invincible tanks is nuts, weapons should be "better or worse" at killing whatever they are good at killing, they shouldnt be "able or unable", or in the madrugers case just "unable". I... don't think you understood what I was saying? Where in that was I saying anything about armor vs shields? Where was I saying that the maddy is fine? Really, your response has literally nothing to do with what I said. highlighted for easier reading Cat pointed out that PLC is a shield based AV and it will and has problems with armor vehicles while being highly effective versus shield vehicle. You're just catching single words without any meaning. Loyal to The State Member of State Protectorate // Belongs to Patriots power bloc Civire Bloodline
emm kay Direct Action Resources 352	Posted - 2015.07.06 18:29:00 - [17] - Quote Mejt0 wrote: When you have AI and AV tank fits, one will deal with AV (infantry) more effectively. Now you tell me which one will it be? Hint : it is not the second one. depends on if the target is a maddi There is a reason you never see me in battle. it's because I see you first.
Count- -Crotchula Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 88	Posted - 2015.07.06 18:47:00 - [18] - Quote emm kay wrote: I've never seen it this bad. I just got to face off against a madrugar g-1 with a commando. I had 2x Kubo Plc it had it's hardeners on permanantly. I shoot at it. It repairs all damage before I'm done reloading. I have commando V and rapid reload 3 on the PLC. it kills me, with full health. I never missed a shot. seriously. is AV only good against LAVs now? Wryikomi Breach forge gun, 3 complex damage mods prof 5 get behind the tank when hardeners are down target weak spot and BOOM it's over THREE THOUSAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAND!
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 24	Posted - 2015.07.06 18:48:00 - [19] - Quote emm kay wrote: Starlight Burner wrote: 2 Lai Dai Packed AV nades to the ass have been my problem solver to tanks. don't you think that one option when dealing with tanks is a bit low If you believe that they're nigh-invincible, why not? Surely it's not too low then? Arkena Wyrnspire aka "British Khorne" - Cross Atu Gallente Guide
JIMvc2 Consolidated Dust 1	Posted - 2015.07.06 19:02:00 - [20] - Quote Once the enforcer and Surya release. The maddie is dead lol. Armor reps need to have a delay. Why is that shields dont regen after taking a few bullets stop but with armor reps it keeps repping = it makes no ******* sense :/ Why did the white girl cross the road? To get to Starbucks. <-- My GF will kill me if I ask her that lol :)

alten hilt Nos Nothi 424	Posted - 2015.07.06 20:25:00 - [21] - Quote On a direct hit that damages armor (meaning the shields are down), give the PLC a damage-over-time (DoT) mechanic, or maybe a disable-reps-for-a-time (DRfaT?) mechanic . This would simulate the plasma nature of the PLC very well, would enhance it's roll vs Vehicles while not improving it against infantry, and make PLC's more viable as an AV weapon against armor in general. Personally, I think the DoT should only apply to armor because the PLC feels well balanced against shield tanked vehicles (except maybe dropships, but this is due more to the PLC's slow projectile speed, than it's damage). It's very hard to hit a moving target with the PLC, and the slow reload time (even on Gal Mando 5 and Rapid Reload 5) makes it nearly impossible to get the follow-up shot. If that follow up shot is against armor, then it is most likely that the damage from the first shot has already been repaired. With a DoT mechanic, the first shot that gets into armor disables reps or damages the vehicle for another 3 - 6 seconds; just enough time for a skilled PLC shot to land additional damage (adding more DoT, maybe stacking? or maybe just a reset?). A smart tanker will still be able to mitigate the threat, but at least now it will be a threat, and not just a laughable easy kill for the tanker. Surviving Dust: Tutorial Series
LudiKure ninda Dead Man's Game 273	Posted - 2015.07.06 20:43:00 - [22] - Quote I would eat that perma hardend maddy, dosent matter if its G-1 or gv.0 ( -í° -£-û -í°) `Fully maxed tank pilot.`
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 19	Posted - 2015.07.06 20:54:00 - [23] - Quote Because all Hardeners, even Shield Hardeners, convey too great a resistance bonus making them the most desirable module and critical to HAV durability. More Heavy Armour Repairer Modules convey Active Module level benefits as a passive module with little to not upkeep. What we have are fits whose eHP levels are entirely determined by active hardeners and not by their raw HP which is then supplemented by repairers and hardeners which convey shorter duration and less prolific effects. Em shah tey et naGÇÖemsaer ek rahvi, amarr osedah gasi ubday pahk. Ekin tey vahka ijed div ema ziel. Et tey vamatal em.
Joel II X Bacon with a bottle of Quafe 8	Posted - 2015.07.06 20:59:00 - [24] - Quote Because hardener stacking and reps. *Scouts United* Gk.0s & Quafes all day.
LOL KILLZ LulKlz 222	Posted - 2015.07.06 21:08:00 - [25] - Quote AV Nades. Proto AHMG. If the maddy is cocky enough to get close, which they usually are. CEO of LulKlz/ chat channel LulKlz, code 0000 <--- numbers
VikingKong iBUN 0uter.Heaven 477	Posted - 2015.07.06 23:04:00 - [26] - Quote Minmando with Swarms certainly works. I would like a Gallente SMG. TUNNEL SNAKES RULE
Vesta Opalus Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 856	Posted - 2015.07.07 00:24:00 - [27] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Vesta Opalus wrote: Cat Merc wrote: PLC is the only AV weapon that requires you to pick your targets. Try it against an armor tank, and you will fail. It ain't a forge or swarm that can deal with both shields and armor reasonably. Though yes, maddys are a bit too stronk from what my tanker friends tell me. There is no AV in the game that will kill a madruger with its hardeners up, unless you have 2-3 people hitting it at once. Its not about armor vs. shields, the madruger is just OP. This idea that somehow the weapon damage profile results in invincible tanks is nuts, weapons should be "better or worse" at killing whatever they are good at killing, they shouldnt be "able or unable", or in the madrugers case just "unable". I... don't think you understood what I was saying? Where in that was I saying anything about armor vs shields? Where was I saying that the maddy is fine? Really, your response has literally nothing to do with what I said. See: "Try it against an armor tank, and you will fail. It ain't a forge or swarm that can deal with both shields and armor reasonably." My post isnt really a direct response to you, in any case, just that I see alot of the kind of sentiment I talked about in my post when talking about AV discussion or discussion of the scrambler rifle (its ok if you die in .2 seconds with 600 shields because its an anti shield weapon!).
DozersMouse XIII Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 1	Posted - 2015.07.07 01:19:00 - [28] - Quote Plc doesn't do much to armor tank unless you Get your shots off before or after hardeners are down addicted to the Kubo's GMK-16 banana cannon
Mejt0 Dead Man's Game 1	Posted - 2015.07.07 01:22:00 - [29] - Quote Count- -Crotchula wrote: emm kay wrote: I've never seen it this bad. I just got to face off against a madrugar g-1 with a commando. I had 2x Kubo Plc it had it's hardeners on permanantly. I shoot at it. It repairs all damage before I'm done reloading. I have commando V and rapid reload 3 on the PLC. it kills me, with full health. I never missed a shot. seriously. is AV only good against LAVs now? Wryikomi Breach forge gun, 3 complex damage mods prof 5 get behind the tank when hardeners are down target weak spot and BOOM it's over THREE THOUSAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAND! You can do the same using IAFG. Loyal to The State Member of State Protectorate // Belongs to Patriots power bloc Civire Bloodline
jane stalin free dropships for newbs 349	Posted - 2015.07.07 01:42:00 - [30] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: emm kay wrote: Starlight Burner wrote: 2 Lai Dai Packed AV nades to the ass have been my problem solver to tanks. don't you think that one option when dealing with tanks is a bit low If you believe that they're nigh-invincible, why not? Surely it's not too low then? He is saying there is only one way to kill tanks , the number one is low. He does not mean it is a bad way to kill tanks

True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 19	Posted - 2015.07.07 01:53:00 - [31] - Quote jane stalin wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: emm kay wrote: Starlight Burner wrote: 2 Lai Dai Packed AV nades to the ass have been my problem solver to tanks. don't you think that one option when dealing with tanks is a bit low If you believe that they're nigh-invincible, why not? Surely it's not too low then? He is saying there is only one way to kill tanks , the number one is low. He does not mean it is a bad way to kill tanks There are plenty of ways to kill HAV. Some easier than others. While I recognise Armour Tanks are broken due to hardeners (all hardeners) being too potent and their active value passive repairers it does not make for a good argument to say that 'the only way to kill an HAV is the easiest and that anything harder by whatever margin is not worth considering.' Em shah tey et naGÇÖemsaer ek rahvi, amarr osedah gasi ubday pahk. Ekin tey vahka ijed div ema ziel. Et tey vamatal em.
emm kay Direct Action Resources 355	Posted - 2015.07.07 03:07:00 - [32] - Quote alten hilt wrote: On a direct hit that damages armor (meaning the shields are down), give the PLC a damage-over-time (DoT) mechanic, or maybe a disable-reps-for-a-time (DRfaT?) mechanic . This would simulate the plasma nature of the PLC very well, would enhance it's roll vs Vehicles while not improving it against infantry, and make PLC's more viable as an AV weapon against armor in general. Personally, I think the DoT should only apply to armor because the PLC feels well balanced against shield tanked vehicles (except maybe dropships, but this is due more to the PLC's slow projectile speed, than it's damage). It's very hard to hit a moving target with the PLC, and the slow reload time (even on Gal Mando 5 and Rapid Reload 5) makes it nearly impossible to get the follow-up shot. If that follow up shot is against armor, then it is most likely that the damage from the first shot has already been repaired. With a DoT mechanic, the first shot that gets into armor disables reps or damages the vehicle for another 3 - 6 seconds; just enough time for a skilled PLC shot to land additional damage (adding more DoT, maybe stacking? or maybe just a reset?). A smart tanker will still be able to mitigate the threat, but at least now it will be a threat, and not just a laughable easy kill for the tanker. yes, this is what we need. Maybe an EMP that disables all non-active modules (minus buffer mods)? That's a small list, though. being only mCRUs and reps. We could always through in a non-value add like: reduces speed of victims by 10% for x seconds. There is a reason you never see me in battle. it's because I see you first.
Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 1	Posted - 2015.07.07 03:21:00 - [33] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: emm kay wrote: Starlight Burner wrote: 2 Lai Dai Packed AV nades to the ass have been my problem solver to tanks. don't you think that one option when dealing with tanks is a bit low If you believe that they're nigh-invincible, why not? Surely it's not too low then? If that were truly a viable option then maybe one option is fine, but 2 Lai Dais won't kill a Maddie with hardeners, 2 Lai Dai can't hit a tank that keeps a distance. If the tank rolls up in an area with cover, grenades are pretty effective but only then. So you have one option in one situation and that IS too low. Because, that's why.


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