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Piercing Serenity
Immortal Guides Learning Alliance
1
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Posted - 2015.07.02 02:49:00 -
[1] - Quote
I'm just curious. How do you feel about uplinks and how they are designed? Personally, I think that, due to the way that they work, uplinks offer a team to project their force too far and too efficiently. Coupled with the other methods of spawning in, I think uplinks (in their current form) take away the value of positioning (tactical maneuvers and/or fortifications) in-game.
I want to know your thoughts on how force projection should work in DUST, and if you think that uplinks are working as intended, or if there is some room for improvement in the way force projection is handled.
"For people who don't really do S**T, ya'll really doing the most"
Lv. 1 Forum Warrior
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sebastian the huds
Corrosive Synergy
313
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Posted - 2015.07.02 02:54:00 -
[2] - Quote
bump
I specialize in light attack vehicles, so what?
i was the first CEO of corrosive synergy.
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Piercing Serenity
Immortal Guides Learning Alliance
1
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Posted - 2015.07.02 04:00:00 -
[3] - Quote
bump
"For people who don't really do S**T, ya'll really doing the most"
Lv. 1 Forum Warrior
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CELESTA AUNGM
Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation
573
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Posted - 2015.07.02 04:29:00 -
[4] - Quote
LOL, "bump" no more, Piercing.
I'm an Artificer Player. "artificer" is a weird Dust name for a certain type of support player, but it in effect means I am better at almost anything EXCEPT shooting other players. I'm rubbish when it comes to trying to win by killing.
It gives me plenty of time to see how "other tools" in the game are "lethal" in their own way. SOME of them are the most strategically lethal tools in winning matches.
The UPLINK is the world-beater in my opinion. For many players who don't know (and, yepGǪ many DON'T know), three uplinks planted in the right places at the right time will win Dom and Ambush matches nearly ALL the time. They establish ACCESS to the map for your team, and the team that controls access around the map the best, chokes or corrals the other team and beats them.
But I said 2 or 3 uplinks will win matches in the right places/right timesGǪ The recent change that allows you to carry SIX on your suit and maintain an uplink in the same place for the whole match.
In a typical Dom match, the defending team must insulate the captured Null panel with as many players and firepower they can. They know the uplink or nanohive they plant near their location will only last so long. The opposing team knows when they attack the Null area, it's important to destroy whatever uplink(s) the defending team is relying on for reinforcement-spawning.
But now that any defending player can carry SIX uplinks, any uplink the attacking team destroys,GǪ she simply replaces on the spot. And the match will likely be won more by who brought uplinks, rather than who put up the most gutsy firefight.
I would seriously like to see the "carry" number go back to 2 or 3. The uplink is too useful a tool for owning areas of the map, to allow teams to own the whole match with it. I think we were supposed to be owning it through teamwork, or firepower, or combat,GǪ not so much with a teleport thingy. Carrying 6 of these creates a door that no enemy can close.
Universe of good wishes for the 49, especially CCP Eterne...
No story can have life without writers and publishers.
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Piercing Serenity
Immortal Guides Learning Alliance
1
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Posted - 2015.07.02 06:32:00 -
[5] - Quote
^I'll comment on that in the morning. It's very late over here. Any other thoughts on this?
"For people who don't really do S**T, ya'll really doing the most"
Lv. 1 Forum Warrior
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Regis Blackbird
DUST University Ivy League
1
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Posted - 2015.07.02 07:06:00 -
[6] - Quote
I am not sure how the "Maximum Spawns" work on uplinks (or if it works at all).
If this is the maximum number people can spawn before the uplink goes "poff", then I would suggest to lower this value across the board. This way you can still carry 6 (which I like), but need to naturally replace them more often.
I would also like tactical uplinks with almost instantaneous spawning but only 2-3 spawns allowed, making coordinated surprise attacts a possibility. Imagine throwing in a uplink into a hotspot (like a remote) and 2 heavies instantly spawn and wreak house
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deezy dabest
Evil Syndicate Alliance.
2
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Posted - 2015.07.02 10:32:00 -
[7] - Quote
Unfortunately our map sizes require something like uplinks. They would probably work much better with the way they were designed if our match sizes we some where closer to the original dream of Dust.
For now I could support lowering the number of spawns while increasing the Amarr logi bonus to compensate and give a bit more importance to Amarr logis.
Along with that I would like to see a few more CRUs on the field and a max spawn time on any CRU of 5 seconds and a minimum time of 1 second. That would make holding or destroying CRUs an amazing tactical advantage.
A miniature version of the CRU which is delivered by RDV and can only be called by a squad leader by using X amount of WP would also be pretty cool. I may have to post that over in F&I for it to get buried.
Remove NPC orbitals from FW. -- Fix orbital timers for Eve players assisting in Planetary Conquest.
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VikingKong iBUN
0uter.Heaven
436
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Posted - 2015.07.02 11:52:00 -
[8] - Quote
The uplinks should disappear when the clone that placed them is terminated, or if the user switches to a different suit. Uplink/Nanohive spam would be greatly reduced, if you want to support your team with this equipment then you should have to sacrifice CPU/PG on your suit to fit it. Amarr and Caldari Logis would actually have a purpose on the battlefield, rather than being equipment mules that only see daylight for 10 seconds a game when they come out to spam. Equipment Bandwidth is totally unnecessary, in fact it's an entirely pointless concept when this is a much more simple and effective fix.
I would like a Gallente SMG.
TUNNEL SNAKES RULE
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deezy dabest
Evil Syndicate Alliance.
2
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Posted - 2015.07.02 11:57:00 -
[9] - Quote
VikingKong iBUN wrote:The uplinks should disappear when the clone that placed them is terminated, or if the user switches to a different suit. Uplink/Nanohive spam would be greatly reduced, if you want to support your team with this equipment then you should have to sacrifice CPU/PG on your suit to fit it. Amarr and Caldari Logis would actually have a purpose on the battlefield, rather than being equipment mules that only see daylight for 10 seconds a game when they come out to spam. Equipment Bandwidth is totally unnecessary, in fact it's an entirely pointless concept when this is a much more simple and effective fix.
Umm NO.
I would prefer my role on the team be to drive over and put uplinks out and then drive back to the redline so that my team actually has a chance.
Remove NPC orbitals from FW. -- Fix orbital timers for Eve players assisting in Planetary Conquest.
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
9
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Posted - 2015.07.02 11:59:00 -
[10] - Quote
Uplinks are the single-most important concern in DUST.
There is no equipment that matches them for value in winning (if you care about winning). The side with the fewest uplinks in place at critical points loses.
The hives and repair tools are useful, but they do not carry similar tactical value in determining wins and losses. They determine outcomes on a micro scale, dealing with individuals.
Should they be adjusted?
Probably.
Is there a magic bullet cure-all?
I doubt it.
WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
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VikingKong iBUN
0uter.Heaven
436
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Posted - 2015.07.02 12:02:00 -
[11] - Quote
deezy dabest wrote:VikingKong iBUN wrote:The uplinks should disappear when the clone that placed them is terminated, or if the user switches to a different suit. Uplink/Nanohive spam would be greatly reduced, if you want to support your team with this equipment then you should have to sacrifice CPU/PG on your suit to fit it. Amarr and Caldari Logis would actually have a purpose on the battlefield, rather than being equipment mules that only see daylight for 10 seconds a game when they come out to spam. Equipment Bandwidth is totally unnecessary, in fact it's an entirely pointless concept when this is a much more simple and effective fix. Umm NO. I would prefer my role on the team be to drive over and put uplinks out and then drive back to the redline so that my team actually has a chance. That's not a "role on the team". That's just being a useless blueberry who spams uplinks and then hides in the redline and watches his teammates get spawnkilled on his uplinks which he's not even defending.
I would like a Gallente SMG.
TUNNEL SNAKES RULE
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Kain Spero
Negative-Feedback
5
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Posted - 2015.07.02 12:12:00 -
[12] - Quote
Piercing Serenity wrote:I'm just curious. How do you feel about uplinks and how they are designed? Personally, I think that, due to the way that they work, uplinks offer a team to project their force too far and too efficiently. Coupled with the other methods of spawning in, I think uplinks (in their current form) take away the value of positioning (tactical maneuvers and/or fortifications) in-game.
I want to know your thoughts on how force projection should work in DUST, and if you think that uplinks are working as intended, or if there is some room for improvement in the way force projection is handled.
I couldn't agree more here. Not only do uplinks marginalize tactical positioning but things like mCRUs as well as encouraging fire-and-forget up high camping.
I think spawning solutions like this mobile uplink idea ( https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=205068&find=unread ) could offer some really interesting alternatives to what we currently have.
So much of Dust right now boils down to who can spam the most drop uplinks and who is the most efficient at destroying them.
Owner of Spero Escrow Services
Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news
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Piercing Serenity
Immortal Guides Learning Alliance
1
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Posted - 2015.07.03 00:26:00 -
[13] - Quote
Bumping for more feedback (Including CCP and CPM)
"For people who don't really do S**T, ya'll really doing the most"
Lv. 1 Forum Warrior
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Piercing Serenity
Immortal Guides Learning Alliance
1
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Posted - 2015.07.03 04:22:00 -
[14] - Quote
bump
"For people who don't really do S**T, ya'll really doing the most"
Lv. 1 Forum Warrior
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Larkson Crazy Eye
WarRavens D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
12
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Posted - 2015.07.03 04:37:00 -
[15] - Quote
Well I got to say the 6 uplink thing came out of no where but I love the more nano hives we got in that same patch. Before that it was almost pointless to put a nano hive down. The thing is if your going to limit drop uplinks in some way, at least make them a little harder to kill. Them 400+ shields and a little armor. They shouldn't go poof with any stray shot from about every weapon in the game.
As for some of your other ideas about near instant re-spawns, they exist. There is a proto uplink that gives you pretty much instant spawns at the cost of it going away if the logi who put it down dies. The problem is it's an arum only uplink.... Which is another rather short sighted idea, making equipment tied to a clone. If all your stuff goes away every time you die, things like uplinks become almost useless. Not only will all the people spawning in have to select another uplink and start again (we all love that), but you yourself will never benefit from your own uplinks. If you die you have to hope some one else on your team put some out, or spend 5 min running all the way back to battle...
Yeah that would be real fun. If your not an Amarr logi the limit of most uplinks is pretty bad, They have the 15 second spawn time and only allow 6 clones to spawn before they blow up. The progression from there is about 2-3 seconds faster and 3 more clones can spawn for every level of advancement. Trust me if your whole team is funneling threw your uplinks without putting more down (what most people seem to do), 12 -15 spawns doesn't last very long.
I wish that you got a bit more notice if an uplink ran out. As it stands now you really can't tell unless you have line of sight on the uplink, and can pick yours out. It's not like your uplinks are color coded by squad or anything either. |
Genral69 death
Random Gunz Rise Of Legion.
398
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Posted - 2015.07.03 08:40:00 -
[16] - Quote
I personally want to have more active links. Hear me out, in a average domination: Both side push towards the objective placing uplinks as they get closer and closer. However due to the max u can have active you can be easily redlined. Lets take cru's out of this due to them being hacked and destroyed. Where was I, as your team pushs up to the objective they place links and the ones behind them break. So say the newly placed links gets destroyed your then back at your redline . (this happens alot in domination) once this happens your team have very little chance of getting the point back and most of them end up leaving anyway
https://dust514.com/recruit/R6VwQe/
Sign up today to Help get you and me get free stuff
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KEROSIINI-TERO
The Rainbow Effect
2
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Posted - 2015.07.03 10:48:00 -
[17] - Quote
Piercing Serenity wrote:I'm just curious. How do you feel about uplinks and how they are designed? Personally, I think that, due to the way that they work, uplinks offer a team to project their force too far and too efficiently. Coupled with the other methods of spawning in, I think uplinks (in their current form) take away the value of positioning (tactical maneuvers and/or fortifications) in-game.
I want to know your thoughts on how force projection should work in DUST, and if you think that uplinks are working as intended, or if there is some room for improvement in the way force projection is handled.
Only really big bad thing about links is the ability to place them on the most scrubby positions. I hate being compelled to open any serious game with setting links on silos/warehouses/towers/furnace edges. And I hate clearing those red ones up all game after game.
KERO-TRADER is my official Eve character for Dust trading.
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Indianna Pwns
TERRA R1SING New Eden's Heros
190
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Posted - 2015.07.03 16:56:00 -
[18] - Quote
A huge problem is that the major flux strike is almost useless. It's supposed to allow a team to get rid of uplinks in hard to reach areas, however the fact that 6 can be carried means that as soon the strike has completed campers just replace them immediately. 6 carried is far to many, I would advocate 1 carry max only at MLT level and work from there. |
Larkson Crazy Eye
WarRavens D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
13
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Posted - 2015.07.03 18:05:00 -
[19] - Quote
Indianna Pwns wrote:A huge problem is that the major flux strike is almost useless. It's supposed to allow a team to get rid of uplinks in hard to reach areas, however the fact that 6 can be carried means that as soon the strike has completed campers just replace them immediately. 6 carried is far to many, I would advocate 1 carry max only at MLT level and work from there.
Like I said before, if you go that far there will be no uplinks on the map and everyone will just quit or camp the MCC the first time they die. The maps are far to large in most cases to run to the objective every time you die from the spawn point. 1 uplink, that spawns a mere 6 people is garbage. Never mind the fact any stray round can destroy it in one hit. Supply depot's are rare if non existant in some maps, and their the only way other than dying to replace lost equipment
Nerf the heck out of uplinks if you want, but there better be a drastic increase of fixed spawn points around the map. More CRU",s better timer's at objectives etc. A lot of other FPS"S let you spawn in any where there is a team mate on the field, compared to that DUST's uplinks is pretty tame.
It might take far to much coding but another way to go is to make uplinks more like an active mod on a vehicles. You turn it on, it goes off and you turn it on again after some kind of cool down. You could make it time based (which probably wouldn't be that great) or spawn count based. So a milita one might do 6 people, wait 30-60 seconds and you can activate it again.
Frankly I have no real workable idea on what to do with uplinks. Yes it can be annoying to have people on top of things, but just to get rid of a few roof top campers it would suck to make very one walk from one objective to the next. Perhaps either decrease the cost of the major flux strike, to make it more viable to use. Or just slightly increase the effective range of the minor flux strike to make it a tactical way to take out uplinks. As it is now it seems to have less radius than a flux grenade which makes it okay for taking out a single uplink, but pretty useless to a group. |
Scheneighnay McBob
Penumbra or something
7
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Posted - 2015.07.03 18:35:00 -
[20] - Quote
Bandwidth limits it pretty well already.
Uplink positioning works tactically.
The anti-tunnel snake taskforce has assembled
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DiablosMajora
192
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Posted - 2015.07.03 18:52:00 -
[21] - Quote
Why not make uplinks that work exclusively for your squadmates, in addition to having a shorter spawn in time? It encourages teamwork and tactical gameplay.
Prepare your angus
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Thokk Nightshade
Montana Militia
982
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Posted - 2015.07.03 18:53:00 -
[22] - Quote
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=205068
Here's a link to my thread in the features/ideas discussion board. It is a different take on Uplinks that answers a lot of the questions posted here.
UPLINK BACKPACK:
Just like the title says, what if, in addition to Drop uplinks to be placed, it was possible to have an uplink backpack? Think of it as a Mini Mobile CRU. Here are my ideas on how it would work. It would take up an equipment slot (obviously).
1. It should cost ~ 15 bandwidth give or take (yes, I know it is high. It should have a high cost) 2. It should be 2-3 times the price in ISK of the same level of actual drop uplink. 2. Unlimited Spawns while the clone is active (if I am on the ground bleeding out, someone can still spawn on that point until it is terminated. Since it is in a backpack, it can hold an infinitely larger supply of material for cloning. 3. Set up Std./Adv/Pro by spawn time.... 15/10/5 seconds 4. It is not automatically activated upon spawning. Once turned on, it is activated and begins eating bandwidth. Placing any equipment that would push someone over their bandwidth, if no other equipment is placed, would automatically destroy the equipment placed down. 5. Equipment can be placed while it is active provided it follows bandwidth protocol. 6. The user is still able to fire weapons/throw grenades/hack as normal.
This gives Logis (primarily) another tool and a way to be useful to the team. If I am WEARING the spawn pack, I am able to defend it much easier. It also allows for squad spawning on a particular location to push an objective and would give others an incentive to keep the logis alive (in addition to the ones they already have). It will also paint a bigger target on said Logi's back when people realize there are clones spawning in right on top of him like a mobile CRU
---
From the feedback overview:
When active, it ups the scan profile.
Different modules, 1 perma-active and 1 that has to be turned on/off like a cloak.
Instead of the spawn time difference (#3 above), Std/Adv/ Pro changes scan profile as a bonus (drops it down) to 25/15/5 db increase in profile so at proto it can be offset by dampeners at proto.
Various others... Look at the thread for other discussion points.
Thokk Kill. Thokk Crush. Thokk Smash.
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Nocturnal Soul
Primordial Threat
7
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Posted - 2015.07.03 18:56:00 -
[23] - Quote
I always like the description of the uplink and how it talks about how people spawn on them come in with decreased health which seems like the perfect drawback for using one.
"The Wrath of God is Immense. His Justice is Swift and Decisive. His Tolerance is Limited."
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Indianna Pwns
TERRA R1SING New Eden's Heros
191
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Posted - 2015.07.03 20:40:00 -
[24] - Quote
Larkson Crazy Eye wrote:Indianna Pwns wrote:A huge problem is that the major flux strike is almost useless. It's supposed to allow a team to get rid of uplinks in hard to reach areas, however the fact that 6 can be carried means that as soon the strike has completed campers just replace them immediately. 6 carried is far to many, I would advocate 1 carry max only at MLT level and work from there. Like I said before, if you go that far there will be no uplinks on the map and everyone will just quit or camp the MCC the first time they die. The maps are far to large in most cases to run to the objective every time you die from the spawn point. 1 uplink, that spawns a mere 6 people is garbage. Never mind the fact any stray round can destroy it in one hit. Supply depot's are rare if non existant in some maps, and their the only way other than dying to replace lost equipment Nerf the heck out of uplinks if you want, but there better be a drastic increase of fixed spawn points around the map. More CRU",s better timer's at objectives etc. A lot of other FPS"S let you spawn in any where there is a team mate on the field, compared to that DUST's uplinks is pretty tame. It might take far to much coding but another way to go is to make uplinks more like an active mod on a vehicles. You turn it on, it goes off and you turn it on again after some kind of cool down. You could make it time based (which probably wouldn't be that great) or spawn count based. So a milita one might do 6 people, wait 30-60 seconds and you can activate it again. Frankly I have no real workable idea on what to do with uplinks. Yes it can be annoying to have people on top of things, but just to get rid of a few roof top campers it would suck to make very one walk from one objective to the next. Perhaps either decrease the cost of the major flux strike, to make it more viable to use. Or just slightly increase the effective range of the minor flux strike to make it a tactical way to take out uplinks. As it is now it seems to have less radius than a flux grenade which makes it okay for taking out a single uplink, but pretty useless to a group.
You don't have to walk, there's these big metal things you may have noticed trundling around the map called vehicles. What you do is call one in, jump in and head towards the objective real quick like. Theres also this really great module that no one uses called a mobile CRU, they're great because its really difficult to spawn camp a moving vehicle that's shooting at you.
The more you know! |
Larkson Crazy Eye
WarRavens D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
13
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Posted - 2015.07.04 00:40:00 -
[25] - Quote
Indianna Pwns wrote:
You don't have to walk, there's these big metal things you may have noticed trundling around the map called vehicles. What you do is call one in, jump in and head towards the objective real quick like. Theres also this really great module that no one uses called a mobile CRU, they're great because its really difficult to spawn camp a moving vehicle that's shooting at you.
The more you know!
Vehicles are for the most party pretty expensive and unless you've sunk a few millions SP into piloting and equipping them they are death traps to just about any one who looks your way. You don't even need AV weapons to blow up LAV"S any more. Flux and spray, HMG, Laser riffles tons of things can kill them far to easily. Even militia tanks cost 50k or so and will blow up in a strong breeze. Add that to the price of the drop suit your using to actually fight in when you get to the objective, it gets costly.
Then you have the delay of calling one in. Sure some times it's pretty fast but at the start of the match when everyone is calling vehicles? You might have to wait half a minute for your vehicle, assuming the RDV doesn't drop it upside down or blow itself up
There is also a vehicle cap, I think it's around 5 vehicles on the field at one time for the entire team, but I'm not sure. If uplinks were basically gone and EVERYONE had to call in a vehicle every time they died you would run into a problem with none being available.
Vehicles used to work back in the day. Everyone got a free starter car and it could take a hit or two. It usually two at least two hits from a swarm launcher or AV grenade to blow up. Enough time to bail before you died at least. But then they drastically nerfed LAV's because of the whole murder taxi issue, got rid of the free starter car unless your lucky enough to get a BPO from a salvage box and made them about as safe as smoking in a gas truck. |
Mejt0
Dead Man's Game
1
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Posted - 2015.07.04 00:59:00 -
[26] - Quote
Your eqiupment should vaporize at the moment of your clone termination.
Loyal to The State
Member of State Protectorate //
Belongs to Patriots power bloc
Civire Bloodline
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ZORTURI GLOTZIK
The-Seven Deadly-Sins RUST415
0
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Posted - 2015.07.15 13:45:00 -
[27] - Quote
I do believe the author was asking about the design of the uplinks.
As a logi myself, I think it is already REALLY hard to revive teammates, rep them, drop uplinks, drop nanohives while trying to stay alive AND still try kill some red dots. The uplinks are just perfect the way they are now. It makes it harder to do your job with all that going on and changing it would mean a waste of skills used to specialize in this field because you don't get to carry 6 uplinks at malitia lvl.
I say DON'T change anything. Don't listen to those that are going to cry =ƒÿó about everything in the game that is too hard for them. There is no could've, should've, would've on the battlefield. It's just do or die.
Great job CCP on this MASTERPIECE of a game. Get your servers sorted out and it will be AWESOME.
DON'T HATE THE GAME HATE THE PLAYER =ƒÿê |
Piercing Serenity
Immortal Guides Learning Alliance
1
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Posted - 2015.07.16 19:45:00 -
[28] - Quote
ZORTURI GLOTZIK wrote:I do believe the author was asking about the design of the uplinks. As a logi myself, I think it is already REALLY hard to revive teammates, rep them, drop uplinks, drop nanohives while trying to stay alive AND still try kill some red dots. The uplinks are just perfect the way they are now. It makes it harder to do your job with all that going on and changing it would mean a waste of skills used to specialize in this field because you don't get to carry 6 uplinks at malitia lvl. I say DON'T change anything. Don't listen to those that are going to cry =ƒÿó about everything in the game that is too hard for them. There is no could've, should've, would've on the battlefield. It's just do or die. Great job CCP on this MASTERPIECE of a game. Get your servers sorted out and it will be AWESOME. DON'T HATE THE GAME HATE THE PLAYER =ƒÿê
What does this have to do with the design philosophy of uplinks? You cite "[Uplinks] makes it harder to do your job" and "changing it would mean a wast of skills" as an answer to "Do uplinks promote or inhibit tactical movement and play?" Those answers don't add up.
Look at it this way: One of the big grips with PC is that there is no "Front-line" mechanic. Players can launch CP raids on a district on the other side of MH whenever they want. This is not good. Uplinks do the same thing, on a smaller scale. Thus, they should also be "not good".
"For people who don't really do S**T, ya'll really doing the most"
Lv. 1 Forum Warrior
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