The enemies of God stand broken before us. The light of the Reclaiming shines over them!

tl;dr at bottom with spreadsheet.

The Rail Rifle is supposed to be a long range weapon. Cool, I'm fine with that. The excessive kick makes it difficult to use in CQC, but it is not ubearable. I can and do get kills with it, even against Amarr Assaults with a pinch of luck. But I feel like the RR is overshadowed by nearly all the other rifles in what is supposed to be the RR's niche: long range warfare. Now I believe a major overhaul of the RR function is the best, however I will lay out a different approach in this thread.

The major problem I see with the RR is the excessive kick while in ADS. Not only is it difficult to keep it on target at range, where the RR is supposed to shine, but it also forces me to stop firing, requiring far too long to charge up and continue firing (more on that later) So Therefore, I would ask for a reduction to ADS kick, in order to let me get those long range kills I'm supposed to be going after with the RR.

Next, the charge time. I seem to remember Rattati even saying he couldn't figure out the increased charge time. 0.6 seconds is far too long, especially if the enemy is bobbing and weaving in and out of cover. By the time I am spooled up, he's back safe behind cover, which frustrates me to no end. Therefore, I propose reducing the charge time to 0.4 seconds. This is still a longer charge time than the pre-nerf RR (0.3s)

Some math to assuage people who are going to complain that a reduction in charge time will make the RR OP again. Assuming you have to stop shooting every 15 shots (go grab an RR and try keeping it on target for 15 shots in hipfire) And Knowing the RR ROF of 461.54, that means we can get 461 shots off in 1 minute of time. Now factoring in a charge time of 0.4 seconds every 15 shots, we would have to stop firing and charge again about 30 times within those 461 shots (461/15 is about 30). This means that we would spend 12 seconds of that minute charging our rifle and doing no damage (30x0.4s + 12s) So of that minute, only 48 seconds of it would be time we are actually dealing damage. Percentage wise, 20% of our minute is spent dealing no damage while charging. Factoring this in, that means we only get ~368 shots in that minute (461x80% is 368.8) now my multiplying that number by 51.7 (base damage of a proto RR) and dividing it by 60 seconds in a minute, we get a DPS value of 317. For comparison a proto RR DPS values are for the given conditions, assuming you charge after every 15 shots:

No charge time: 397 DPS
Current charge time (0.6s): 274 DPS
My proposed charge time (0.4s): 317 DPS
Duvolle AR (pre-buff): 453 DPS

As you can see, buffing the charge time still has the AR over 100 DPS more than the RR. That is plenty. The shorter spool time helps hit targets at range before they get into cover, and barely aids in CQC combat, only buffing my potential DPS with the given conditions by a measly 43 DPS. These changes allow the RR to be good at it's intended niche: long range dominance.

tl;dr reduce RR ADS kick, reduce spool time to 0.4s from 0.6s.

I think the RR is just how it should be in general. DPS is fine considering the range on it. It hurts armor making it good for killing people scrambling for cover.

The chargeup time doesn't need to be lower. The kick doesn't need to be lower. That is just a return to the days OP rail rifles.

Instead, make the kick on ADS lower. Then it is good at long range killing like it should be, but not advantageous elsewhere.

Idea!

Caldari Assault racial bonus:
-X% kick while ADS (Rail Weaponry)

Would be awesome for Rail Rifles, Assault Rail Rifles, Sniper Rifles, Tactical Sniper Rifles and MagSecs.

The rail rifle is already the king of long range rifles. 79m is its optimal range. An simple exercise is to get on protofits.when you browse the weapons to fit on each suit there is an adjustable slider, so you can see how much damage a given weapon will do at a specific range.

So far the only ones that can even challenge a RR at 79 is a viziam scrambler, a laser rifle or a sniper. The gun itself needs no assitance in the long range department.

My sympathies only extend to caldari fighters at medium to close range. RR drawbacks are easily overcome with high rep, high
hp gal assaults.

So if you want to tie reduced charge time to the calendar assault bonus i'm with you. Otherwise it's an unecessary over all buff to an OP weapon easily abused on the "wrong" suit.

1. Optimal on the rail rifle is 64. It is outranged by all the other long range rifles.

2. It has the lowest DPS of those rifles, bar the sniper which is a specialty weapon. Both the laser rifle and scrambler rifle do more DPS, especially if the laser rifle has time to heat up. So not only is it outranged, it is outDPSed too.

3. Not only does it have the lowest range and the lowest DPS, but it has the most ADS kick of the rifles, again barring the sniper which is a specialty weapon. So both the scrambler and the laser rifles have greater range, do more damage, AND they can apply that damage far more easily.

4. The other long range rifles do not have a charge time, meaning they can apply their damage instantly. Even Rattati himself said he struggled to kill things because of the charge.

I have no idea where you got the idea that the rail rifle is king of long range. More to the point, my changes greatly help it at long range, and only slightly aid it in CQC, where all the other rifles will still outDPS it as well as not have insane kick in hipfire.

At best, the RR is a medium range weapon, cause if I stand still to try and shoot someone at 40-50+ meter's, I can easily die in a commando suit of 500 shield and 312 ar, and that's against a normal AR mind you (At this time and engagement I had a sniper rifle, but still case and point). All the other weapon's rely on high ROF to have their DPS, that ROF means it'll be out damaged at all ranges, the more bullets you put down range, the greater the chance you'll kill the enemy, maybe a simple change to the RR's ROF is all it really needs?

600 on the RR and 720 on the ARR?

That buffs it in CQC more than range, and makes the ARR outDPS the AR, which should never happen. The problem isn't damage, its damage application. That's all that needs fixing.

This.

Alena has a really good handle on why the rail rifle sucks butt. The problem isnt the DPS or the range (though if the scrambler rifle remains this dominant the range will need to be upped), the problem is that when you fire the weapon there are 3 mechanics that prevent you from actually landing bullets on target.

1. recoil becomes unmanagable VERY quickly in hipfire and pretty bad even in ADS about 15 shots in

2. it jiggles while firing even without recoil, while not a big deal in itself it makes it difficult to hit moving targets and when combined with #1 becomes very disruptive

3. Charge mechanic prevents dropping the recoil and adds even more time onto actually making the weapon work

1. recoil on a railgun is actually very unrealistic to how it would possibly be real world (sound wise, you'd hear the bastard shooting miles away apparently, as reported by several town's hearing the sound of the railgun being fired off of a navy vessel or vessal or whatever its spelled)

2. that's not ACTUAL recoil, thats visual recoil that becomes distorted after dispensing more than 30+ rounds (remove visual recoils from the RR and only make it go upward from the supposed recoil)

3. charging mechanic makes it unique, but the ARR needs to become more like it's militia variant, so that it becomes a TRUE assault weapon, something that can at least help the variant be on par with other weapons

1. recoil on a railgun is actually very unrealistic to how it would possibly be real world (sound wise, you'd hear the bastard shooting miles away apparently, as reported by several town's hearing the sound of the railgun being fired off of a navy vessel or vessal or whatever its spelled)

2. that's not ACTUAL recoil, thats visual recoil that becomes distorted after dispensing more than 30+ rounds (remove visual recoils from the RR and only make it go upward from the supposed recoil)

3. charging mechanic makes it unique, but the ARR needs to become more like it's militia variant, so that it becomes a TRUE assault weapon, something that can at least help the variant be on par with other weapons

I dont care about reality when talking about gun balance, I know its visual recoil but it still contributes to inability to stay on target, especially if the target is moving and as recoil ramps up, I understand the charge mechanic makes it unique but its gone overboard.

Not sure the ARR needs any help right now, except maybe I would FIX THE SIGHT CCP PLEASE JESUS CHRIST WHY IS IT OBSCURING HALF MY TARGET STILL DONT YOU KNOW HOW GUNS WORK... *cough*

The gun we're discussing here is the breach rail rifle. It sucks and it needs a bit of help.

Really good feedback. I never proto'd the RR but I thought about it to help me destroy amarr sentinels. I run amarr assault and commando mostly and the rail rifle kicks my ass. But at super long ranges my SCR with the charge shot fucks the RR. Mostly because it's being used by shield suits I suspect. Easy for me to duck out of cover and back in before the RR can do much. I'd like to see the caldari assault affect charge time on rail weapons rather than going directly at the weapon itself first. See how that goes and then go from there.

Not to derail but comparing the Rail Rifle [aka the original breach rifle] with the Scrambler Rifle [the original tactical rifle] and attempting to balance using one variation type against another is pointless.

I get the feeling you should be focusing on balancing the Rail Rifle with the Breach Assault Rifle with the mind to make suggestions for Amarr and Minmatar Breach Weapons with corresponding DPS values and other such characteristics.

You didn't read what i wrote, did you?

I most certainly did read what you wrote seeing as it is a scant 2 posts above mine.

Have you never seen a post by someone supporting your original post? One that specifies what I agree with and what I do not (I really don't think chargeup time needs a change - you are undervaluing range + effectiveness to armor).

I even put in my response to what people always respond to these arguments with (that being, "RR kick in general is too high!")

Is it so rare that people agree even in part with you lately?

Actually, I ment balance them between the RR and the CR, and the AR to the SCR, make them opposite's of each other there, since they are most in common. Balance out what 2 guns have in common, projectile to rail projectile (kinetic) , and plasma to laser (energy). Don't balance 2 different weapons out based upon what race their suppose to go against.

Actually there are four damage types

kinetic, thermal, EM, and explosive...but thats beside the point. What I mean is do not compare the ScR to the ACR or the AR nor balance them against one another in that manner.

Balance the AScR against those variations and instead discuss an homogenisation of rifle damage profiles.