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killertojo42
KnightKiller's inc.
169
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Posted - 2015.05.29 00:27:00 -
[1] - Quote
In a changing game where you plan your skilling carefully just to get punished by nerfs then double punished by having to use aurum if you have a useless character if you have a newer character or only between 10-20 million SP and got unlucky, there should be a hefty on price isk option, i'd clock it at 50 million isk for an isk respect because players shouldn't be punished by devs because say the bolt pistol gets nerfed next week and 6 months ago somone started playing saw it used and used the next 3 months to skill it out, get a decent suit and have a few mods, his character just got killed by the BP getting nerf batted and CCP is asking 30 bucks or another 6 months, it's obvious the choice, quit dust, that is why we need an isk variant because even i feel it's a pure pay to win with eventual nerf bats or game rebalancing
Because both of us dying as I'm in my nomad BPO is to my benefit
rank 10 winmataar
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Nocturnal Soul
Primordial Threat
6
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Posted - 2015.05.29 00:28:00 -
[2] - Quote
No
(Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.pâ+n+ín+ƒ.
LASERS BTCH!!!!!!
The Incursions are back... and they're golden baby!
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killertojo42
KnightKiller's inc.
169
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Posted - 2015.05.29 00:32:00 -
[3] - Quote
At least state why, because way i see it as long as all items are subject to change devs are just punishing players without and isk skill rsset
Because both of us dying as I'm in my nomad BPO is to my benefit
rank 10 winmataar
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Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
1
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Posted - 2015.05.29 01:01:00 -
[4] - Quote
Player Trading is the answer.
Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
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Chimichanga66605
Vader's Taco Shack
397
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Posted - 2015.05.29 01:14:00 -
[5] - Quote
But it only takes a few days of grinding to Proto your new OP toy. Need that newly OP suit? Only takes a couple weeks to Proto. The new flavor is not that time consuming to chase. So, to answer your question, NO. You don't need an ISK respec.
Mk.0 Specialist, Republic Loyalist
"Badassery is not born, but often thrust upon you." -Franklin Delano Roosevelt
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killertojo42
KnightKiller's inc.
169
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Posted - 2015.05.29 01:31:00 -
[6] - Quote
Chimichanga66605 wrote:But it only takes a few days of grinding to Proto your new OP toy. Need that newly OP suit? Only takes a couple weeks to Proto. The new flavor is not that time consuming to chase. So, to answer your question, NO. You don't need an ISK respec. Proto, yes. Skill it out, no. I said skill it out, not proto, you know, the fitting, reload, ammo and proficiencies you are forgetting
Because both of us dying as I'm in my nomad BPO is to my benefit
rank 10 winmataar
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Chimichanga66605
Vader's Taco Shack
397
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Posted - 2015.05.29 08:25:00 -
[7] - Quote
killertojo42 wrote:Chimichanga66605 wrote:But it only takes a few days of grinding to Proto your new OP toy. Need that newly OP suit? Only takes a couple weeks to Proto. The new flavor is not that time consuming to chase. So, to answer your question, NO. You don't need an ISK respec. Proto, yes. Skill it out, no. I said skill it out, not proto, you know, the fitting, reload, ammo and proficiencies you are forgetting
You mean the the stuff you skill to level 5/Proto? o.O
Mk.0 Specialist, Republic Loyalist
"Badassery is not born, but often thrust upon you." -Franklin Delano Roosevelt
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I-Shayz-I
I----------I
5
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Posted - 2015.05.29 08:26:00 -
[8] - Quote
Kallas Hallytyr wrote:Player Trading is the answer.
7162 wp with a Repair Tool!
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killertojo42
KnightKiller's inc.
171
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Posted - 2015.05.29 08:35:00 -
[9] - Quote
Player trading isn't the originally promised market and is insecure for the most part
Because both of us dying as I'm in my nomad BPO is to my benefit
rank 10 winmataar
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Chimichanga66605
Vader's Taco Shack
397
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Posted - 2015.05.29 08:37:00 -
[10] - Quote
killertojo42 wrote:Player trading isn't the originally promised market and is insecure for the most part
Its actually the building blocks to whatever market we were promised.
Mk.0 Specialist, Republic Loyalist
"Badassery is not born, but often thrust upon you." -Franklin Delano Roosevelt
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killertojo42
KnightKiller's inc.
171
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Posted - 2015.05.29 08:41:00 -
[11] - Quote
Chimichanga66605 wrote:killertojo42 wrote:Chimichanga66605 wrote:But it only takes a few days of grinding to Proto your new OP toy. Need that newly OP suit? Only takes a couple weeks to Proto. The new flavor is not that time consuming to chase. So, to answer your question, NO. You don't need an ISK respec. Proto, yes. Skill it out, no. I said skill it out, not proto, you know, the fitting, reload, ammo and proficiencies you are forgetting You mean the the stuff you skill to level 5? Add a couple more weeks. Still not much of a grind if you ask me... ...but I've only been here for 2 years so what do I know... edit: The answer is still "NO" You missed the new player part, it's not easy for a new player to just grind out lots of SP, please just read and i've been here over 3 years but what do i know :P
Because both of us dying as I'm in my nomad BPO is to my benefit
rank 10 winmataar
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killertojo42
KnightKiller's inc.
171
|
Posted - 2015.05.29 08:43:00 -
[12] - Quote
Chimichanga66605 wrote:killertojo42 wrote:Player trading isn't the originally promised market and is insecure for the most part Its actually the building blocks to whatever market we were promised. I know, just saying but they have a lot of years old promises to fully fulfill before i cut them slack
Because both of us dying as I'm in my nomad BPO is to my benefit
rank 10 winmataar
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MINA Longstrike
Kirjuun Heiian
3
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Posted - 2015.05.29 10:44:00 -
[13] - Quote
killertojo42 wrote:In a changing game where you plan your skilling carefully just to get punished by nerfs then double punished by having to use aurum if you have a useless character if you have a newer character or only between 10-20 million SP and got unlucky, there should be a hefty on price isk option, i'd clock it at 50 million isk for an isk respect because players shouldn't be punished by devs because say the bolt pistol gets nerfed next week and 6 months ago somone started playing saw it used and used the next 3 months to skill it out, get a decent suit and have a few mods, his character just got killed by the BP getting nerf batted and CCP is asking 30 bucks or another 6 months, it's obvious the choice, quit dust, that is why we need an isk variant because even i feel it's a pure pay to win with eventual nerf bats or game rebalancing
Skill into the things that you want to use and are likely to enjoy using, rather than chasing flavor of the month. Things are for the most part relatively balanced and people can be competitive with almost anything.
If balance changes 'destroy' your character, you're playing the game wrong.
Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian.
I have a few alts.
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killertojo42
KnightKiller's inc.
172
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Posted - 2015.05.29 11:11:00 -
[14] - Quote
Ok let me be clear, i am a fully skilled minmatar character with all min suits proto and weapons proto and all weapons except the mass drivers skilled out to near LV5 on even fitting, it's just an example of what a new player would deal with and face, i don't use the BP myself
Because both of us dying as I'm in my nomad BPO is to my benefit
rank 10 winmataar
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Derpty Derp
Dead Man's Game
1
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Posted - 2015.05.29 13:22:00 -
[15] - Quote
The "nerf circle" both justifies and invalidates the "must have respecs" argument.
Everything will be OP scrub gear at some point... It will get nerfed, then everything else will get nerfed and it'll become the fotm scrub gear all over again. |
Maken Tosch
DUST University Ivy League
11
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Posted - 2015.05.29 14:03:00 -
[16] - Quote
killertojo42 wrote:Chimichanga66605 wrote:killertojo42 wrote:Player trading isn't the originally promised market and is insecure for the most part Its actually the building blocks to whatever market we were promised. I know, just saying but they have a lot of years old promises to fully fulfill before i cut them slack
Just to be absolutely clear, the OLD dev team made those promises a long time ago under DIFFERENT leadership. After Fanfest 2014, that team changed along with the leadership. CCP Jian is no longer in charge (he left CCP) and the team has changed to focus on other projects while Dust is left with only a handful of developers.
As a result, as you should know this is how businesses worldwide usually operate, priorities have changed as well as the plans. We were promised Project Legion, but what happened to it? [hint: that is a rhetorical question] Now we see that Dust is the one getting the trade feature that only Project Legion was suppose to get in addition to new updates that Dust is receiving to which we were "promised" that only Legion would be getting after Fanfest 2014. Again, priorities change especially now that Rattati is charge of Dust development and so far he has been running his team effectively enough to help Dust recover.
Now to your point regarding the market. I understand that the trade feature we have now is not safe for traders because of scammers. But there is something you need to know first before asking for something like Trade Windows, Buy/Sell Order Market Windows, Contracts, etc. Those advanced features for trade are NOT scam proof. Just look at Eve Online. Scammers have figured out how to work the system in Eve. Ever heard of Margin Trade scams that take advantage of the Buy/Sell Order Market? There are also Trade Window scams that can be pulled off even if the buyer or seller both have instant access to the information as all you need is to be savvy enough to pull it off. Contract scams are often designed to take advantage of stupidity.
What's my point? Simple. Nothing is scam proof. That has been a proven fact in Eve Online and will be in Dust.
As for the ISK-variant of the respec that you are requesting, that is something that can be possible already with the flip of a switch from CCP. It's called "making skillpoint reset services tradable items". Just keep in mind that brokers are always available to you. I'm a corporate broker for Dust University and I provide this service to my corp mates for a nominal fee of 1% of the seller's ISK profits. I already helped a handful of players recently who can vouch for me. Player-operated brokers help you secure the transaction by acting as a middle man for high-value trades.
But yeah, add respecs to the trade feature and you got yourself a win-win-win situation. Win for the buyer looking to spend a boatload of ISK for a respec, win for the seller looking to cash in his/her respec for ISK, and a win for CCP because of increased sales. This has worked before and is still working to this day. It's called the PLEX system in Eve Online. But even then, even if you trade it through a seemingly secure contract or through a live trade window with another player or through the seemingly secure buy/sell order market, it's never 100% safe from scammers.
Eve Online Invite
https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=ed64524f-15ca-4997-ab92-eaae0af74b7f&action=buddy
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Alena Ventrallis
Commando Perkone Caldari State
3
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Posted - 2015.05.29 16:08:00 -
[17] - Quote
You should be able to buy a respec off of someone for ISK, but by no means should you get to buy one for a set price from an npc. You want something that powerful, you should go through a player and risk losing your money if you have no sense for scamming.
Whirly gun make much thunder! - Victor
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7th Son 7
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2015.05.29 16:41:00 -
[18] - Quote
Totally disagree. Skill respecs are not mandatory, we should consider ourselves lucky we can even have one imo.
Only your complete and total awareness is needed, nothing else will do. ----- OSHO
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7th Son 7
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2015.05.29 16:51:00 -
[19] - Quote
I would also like to add.... let's not act like nerf bats remove the weopon from your hands or makes your gear ineffective, because it does'nt. I can see your point if I was an fotm chaser, but i'm not.
Only your complete and total awareness is needed, nothing else will do. ----- OSHO
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Forever ETC
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
1
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Posted - 2015.05.29 17:51:00 -
[20] - Quote
Don't see the point honestly, new players can't afford the ISK and can create a new character. Vets are already skilled in almost everything or have been playing the same role forever(me). As said before this would benefit the FOTM chasers, I have been playing with the same suit and weapons for an entire year... Not because it is good but because of personal preferences
PIE
Lasers4life
"That's one down!"- Forever ETC
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killertojo42
KnightKiller's inc.
173
|
Posted - 2015.05.30 04:56:00 -
[21] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:killertojo42 wrote:Chimichanga66605 wrote:killertojo42 wrote:Player trading isn't the originally promised market and is insecure for the most part Its actually the building blocks to whatever market we were promised. I know, just saying but they have a lot of years old promises to fully fulfill before i cut them slack Just to be absolutely clear, the OLD dev team made those promises a long time ago under DIFFERENT leadership. After Fanfest 2014, that team changed along with the leadership. CCP Jian is no longer in charge (he left CCP) and the team has changed to focus on other projects while Dust is left with only a handful of developers. As a result, as you should know this is how businesses worldwide usually operate, priorities have changed as well as the plans. We were promised Project Legion, but what happened to it? [hint: that is a rhetorical question] Now we see that Dust is the one getting the trade feature that only Project Legion was suppose to get in addition to new updates that Dust is receiving to which we were "promised" that only Legion would be getting after Fanfest 2014. Again, priorities change especially now that Rattati is charge of Dust development and so far he has been running his team effectively enough to help Dust recover. Now to your point regarding the market. I understand that the trade feature we have now is not safe for traders because of scammers. But there is something you need to know first before asking for something like Trade Windows, Buy/Sell Order Market Windows, Contracts, etc. Those advanced features for trade are NOT scam proof. Just look at Eve Online. Scammers have figured out how to work the system in Eve. Ever heard of Margin Trade scams that take advantage of the Buy/Sell Order Market? There are also Trade Window scams that can be pulled off even if the buyer or seller both have instant access to the information as all you need is to be savvy enough to pull it off. Contract scams are often designed to take advantage of stupidity. What's my point? Simple. Nothing is scam proof. That has been a proven fact in Eve Online and will be in Dust. As for the ISK-variant of the respec that you are requesting, that is something that can be possible already with the flip of a switch from CCP. It's called "making skillpoint reset services tradable items". Just keep in mind that brokers are always available to you. I'm a corporate broker for Dust University and I provide this service to my corp mates for a nominal fee of 1% of the seller's ISK profits. I already helped a handful of players recently who can vouch for me. Player-operated brokers help you secure the transaction by acting as a middle man for high-value trades. But yeah, add respecs to the trade feature and you got yourself a win-win-win situation. Win for the buyer looking to spend a boatload of ISK for a respec, win for the seller looking to cash in his/her respec for ISK, and a win for CCP because of increased sales. This has worked before and is still working to this day. It's called the PLEX system in Eve Online. But even then, even if you trade it through a seemingly secure contract or through a live trade window with another player or through the seemingly secure buy/sell order market, it's never 100% safe from scammers. You forget PvE, CCP's biggest feature promised and never given at the start of the game in open and closed beta and is a feature that we all know of and is shown in original trailers, so no not even CCP's first promise was kept
Because both of us dying as I'm in my nomad BPO is to my benefit
rank 10 winmataar
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killertojo42
KnightKiller's inc.
173
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Posted - 2015.05.30 05:09:00 -
[22] - Quote
Anyway the point still is CCP tells us to plan out and skill carefully and a nerf can make a set of skills we acquired can be rendered useless by a choice by CCP or make something we liked undesirable to us, by them asking we be careful and many of us are i then asked we not be punished by a nerf or adjustments and have an isk means to respec because i carefully plan out my skills but if my combat rifle gets nerfed too hard i'll be screwed till i prof. V another rifle and my suits will all need readjusting, and CCP sometimes just makes drastic changes to items without much notice or if repair tools get nerfed i'll need to build or skill into an entirely new logi and that one is looking quite possible
Because both of us dying as I'm in my nomad BPO is to my benefit
rank 10 winmataar
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MINA Longstrike
Kirjuun Heiian
3
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Posted - 2015.05.30 09:53:00 -
[23] - Quote
killertojo42 wrote:You forget PvE, CCP's biggest feature promised and never given at the start of the game in open and closed beta and is a feature that we all know of and is shown in original trailers, so no not even CCP's first promise was kept
Forget all of the old 'promises' that were made. They were hype and and pomp and they were completely impossible to deliver upon in many cases. Rattati is doing his own thing and doing it well, but he has absolutely zero intention of being held to the 'promises'(aka lies) of the old devteam.
Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian.
I have a few alts.
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KEROSIINI-TERO
The Rainbow Effect
2
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Posted - 2015.05.30 11:51:00 -
[24] - Quote
killertojo42 wrote:Chimichanga66605 wrote:But it only takes a few days of grinding to Proto your new OP toy. Need that newly OP suit? Only takes a couple weeks to Proto. The new flavor is not that time consuming to chase. So, to answer your question, NO. You don't need an ISK respec. Proto, yes. Skill it out, no. I said skill it out, not proto, you know, the fitting, reload, ammo and proficiencies you are forgetting
Killertojo42. You were talking
killertojo42 wrote:get punished by nerfs then double punished by having to use aurum if you have a useless character if you about useless character.
Do you really think that if a character does not have all chosen weapon's specialization skill on level five (5) it is useless???
What Chimichanga66605 said above is absolutely spot on. Few weeks and that's it.
KERO-TRADER is my official Eve character for Dust trading.
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Mejt0
Dead Man's Game
1
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Posted - 2015.05.30 13:40:00 -
[25] - Quote
Auctioner would be pretty damn good instead of simple trading. But it's already too late for them [devs] i guess.
About OP. I can add that in other games where you have sp system you can respec. Either in easy way (in game currency, low price) or a bit harder way (buy it from another player). In both situation you still can buy a respec.
But it's Dust, right? Let's make it harder to new players :).
Ps. This. Older players have enough sp to run what they want. Newer players are being punished by CCP and failed balance.
Do you say that new player shouldn't touch something that he likes because it can be randomly nerfed? Thus he should spec into something he dislikes?
I'm saying punished because CCP's nerfs are often very hard. See what they did to gunlogi and LAV? Planning changes for assaults?
Loyal to The State
Supporter of : Guristas and The Khanid Kingdom
Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu
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