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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 8 post(s) |
Zaria Min Deir
0uter.Heaven
1
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Posted - 2015.05.27 09:43:00 -
[1] - Quote
Please, please don't reduce equipment count on any logi. 2 at standard is NOT ok, it is the same as what scouts have, how is the logi supposed to be the equipment specialist if a std scout can do the same job as a std logi? 3/3/4 as the Min has at the moment is acceptable, though I think you will find a lot of logis would support a 3/4/4 progression (if not 4/4/4), for good reasons too. The equipment is what defines the logistics class, making the 4 unlock only at proto is inelegant in my opinion (though, I assume some would say 4 at even adv is somehow OP :/). And giving logi suits only 2 equipment slots at std is worse. And yes, that is what the Cal and the Amarr have at the moment, there are reasons why so many of us logis have been asking for this slot progression balance pass for a long time ;)
Personally I believe that the Caldari extra (low) slot in trade for the one equipment slot is fair, but unnecessary... It should really just have the same standard slot progression, just mirrored with the Gal, but I thing actual Cal logis should weigh in on that. With one less low slot but another equipment, it would still need some adjustment to it's CPU (as you are correct, it is paying for the old sins of it's original suit bonus and the power of the tac AR).
The Amarr logi trading a sidearm for an equipment is also fair enough, it should get the same amount of total slots as the others as well.
Have you considered installing the improved keyboard?
"Go Go Power Rangers!"
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Zaria Min Deir
0uter.Heaven
1
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Posted - 2015.05.27 10:14:00 -
[2] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:
Why not take downgrade the light weapon from CA to sidearm and leave the EQ? that's what I was thinking.
Hmm, I mean, sure... so, Cal logi would have an extra module slot, standard equipment progression, and only a sidearm...? That would certainly differentiate it. Best defense, worst offense, same equipment potential. This might be a balance nightmare, but still, intriquing.
Though I am not sure why it couldn't just have the standard logi slots numbers (so, same as gal and min)... It would be simpler, but perhaps also more boring ;)
Have you considered installing the improved keyboard?
"Go Go Power Rangers!"
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Zaria Min Deir
0uter.Heaven
1
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Posted - 2015.05.28 08:11:00 -
[3] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:what if proto is "only" 7 high/lows
Why? Honest to god, the only reasoning I see for this is the calculations popping up in other threads on how the Caldari Logi specifically would become too good again in comparison to the Cal Assault... Which I personally see as an issue with the Cal Logi and Cal Assault suits, NOT the whole Logi class. And I thought you proclaimed your lack of fear of killer bees? 
You've already stated you're planning on making fitting Logi suits more... difficult is not the right word, necessary, but more equipment focused ( as they should be) and as a result, less versatile in other areas (not necessarily entirely a good thing). The thing with reducing module fitting capacity is that... brick tank is actually easier to fit in many cases than most of the utility modules. Which is not a purely Logistics related issue, but should actually be looked at as a whole to encourage people away from bricking any and all suits anyway... But I digress.
As you're already partially walking back the speed canges to Logi (I am referring to sprint speed remaining the same as now) AND also removing a module slot on top of that, we're maybe even looking at a net nerf to Logis O.o Why do you think it would be necessary?
Have you considered installing the improved keyboard?
"Go Go Power Rangers!"
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Zaria Min Deir
0uter.Heaven
1
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Posted - 2015.05.28 09:47:00 -
[4] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Zaria Min Deir wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:what if proto is "only" 7 high/lows
Why? Honest to god, the only reasoning I see for this is the calculations popping up in other threads on how the Caldari Logi specifically would become too good again in comparison to the Cal Assault... Which I personally see as an issue with the Cal Logi and Cal Assault suits, NOT the whole Logi class. And I thought you proclaimed your lack of fear of killer bees? You've already stated you're planning on making fitting Logi suits more... difficult is not the right word, necessary, but more equipment focused ( as they should be) and as a result, less versatile in other areas (not necessarily entirely a good thing). The thing with reducing module fitting capacity is that... brick tank is actually easier to fit in many cases than most of the utility modules. Which is not a purely Logistics related issue, but should actually be looked at as a whole to encourage people away from bricking any and all suits anyway... But I digress. As you're already partially walking back the speed canges to Logi (I am referring to sprint speed remaining the same as now) AND also removing a module slot on top of that, we're maybe even looking at a net nerf to Logis O.o Why do you think it would be necessary? I don't, it was just a question. It also relates to normalized fitting, but just thought I would throw it out there.
My apologies if my response came across as an overreaction... Sometimes you scare me a bit with the way you "throw something out there"
Have you considered installing the improved keyboard?
"Go Go Power Rangers!"
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Zaria Min Deir
0uter.Heaven
1
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Posted - 2015.05.28 09:51:00 -
[5] - Quote
The Eristic wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:The Eristic wrote:8 slots + 4 equip + Light + Sidearm on all four in exchange for the grenade slot? Or sidearm on just Amarr/Cal for the grenade? hmmm, that's certainly an option. I think the grenade fits the amarr combat logi idea though, so... This is just me speaking for myself, but I run all four logis on my chars, and I find the sidearm of the Amarr enormously more useful for defending myself and my links than grenades. It would eliminate the much more troublesome issue of H/L slot inconsistency vs equip sacrifice (which should not be an option if we want logis to be logis). Grenades are generally more offensive than defensive in this game, so let the Assaults and Sentinels throw the 'nades, let the logis keep them supplied? Also, it would also preclude the imminent Callogi killerbees buzzing about their endless Core Locus hives.
But but but my flux nades... 
But seriously, once again... if Cal Logis with Core nades are a problem, does that really warrant removing the nade slot on all Logis? Or maybe it might be a time to take a look at locus nades and how they interact with the Cal Logi (and it's bonus to hives) specifically... Just a thought.
MINA Longstrike wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Nade lost on logis and giving them all side arms instead would make them distinctively disadvantaged vs an assault. But flux grenades too useful, especially when dealing with glitchy equipment. I'm not sure if it's even possible but what would limiting logi's to flux grenades be like? What if we actually implemented grenade 'sizes', with heavies getting the 'large' grenade slots (special contact grenades/very nasty heavy av grenades), assaults getting the mediums (the current run of grenades), and logi's getting 'light' grenades (same radius but half damage?)
Something along these lines would be vastly preferrable and more interesting than just plain removing the Logi's ability to support the team by, for instance, dealing with enemy equipment efficiently.
Have you considered installing the improved keyboard?
"Go Go Power Rangers!"
|
Zaria Min Deir
0uter.Heaven
1
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Posted - 2015.05.29 17:39:00 -
[6] - Quote
MINA Longstrike wrote:
All logi's should have 8 [module] slots, a grenade, a light weapon, NO SIDEARM and four equipment slots.
Amen.
Have you considered installing the improved keyboard?
"Go Go Power Rangers!"
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Zaria Min Deir
0uter.Heaven
1
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Posted - 2015.05.30 14:24:00 -
[7] - Quote
KEROSIINI-TERO wrote:
While the cald-logi was desiged in chromosome, it had extra fitting slot for no apparent reason. It has carried over, even through anti-slayer logi nerfs for some reason.
Cald-logis extra slot can be taken away with no reimbursement for it. BUT the cald-logi nevertheless needs some love for it's rather lacking role bonus.
Um. No, the Caldari logi has that extra module slot in exchange for having one less equipment than the Minmatar or Gallente. So, that extra slot being taken away should come with the missing equipment being added to it. And, yes, it also needs other things, like fixing the CPU for a start.
Pokey Dravon wrote:Im amazed people are still trying to push for the Sidearm only Logi.
Because "It's Support"?
Isn't a Scout supposed to be Stealth/EWAR? So by a similar logic would they not be Sidearm Only too?
How about we stop trying to strip away essentials from suits and instead focus on giving Assaults something unique that Logis cant replicate?
So much this.
Have you considered installing the improved keyboard?
"Go Go Power Rangers!"
|
Zaria Min Deir
0uter.Heaven
1
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Posted - 2015.06.03 08:38:00 -
[8] - Quote
RedBleach LeSanglant wrote:
Still need all logis to start with 3EQ - even if that never changes for AMARR and CAL at the proto level.
Absolutely. No logi should have only 2 equipment slots, not when scouts and potentially medium frames will match them on that.
However... there is a problem with the idea that the Amarr logi would have full equipment count AND its sidearm at standard and adv, if the other logis only get their full equipment count at proto. This would once again lead to the issue where while even if the different racial logis would be fairly balanced at proto tier, at lower tiers some of them would be comparatively better than others of the same tier... We have that now with the wonky module slot progression, and the whole point was to get rid of that issue finally.
Really, the only way I can see to address both those issues fairly is giving all Logis their full equipment slot count across all tiers.
Have you considered installing the improved keyboard?
"Go Go Power Rangers!"
|
Zaria Min Deir
0uter.Heaven
1
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Posted - 2015.06.03 14:12:00 -
[9] - Quote
Varoth Drac wrote:Zaria Min Deir wrote:RedBleach LeSanglant wrote:
Still need all logis to start with 3EQ - even if that never changes for AMARR and CAL at the proto level.
Absolutely. No logi should have only 2 equipment slots, not when scouts and potentially medium frames will match them on that. However... there is a problem with the idea that the Amarr logi would have full equipment count AND its sidearm at standard and adv, if the other logis only get their full equipment count at proto. This would once again lead to the issue where while even if the different racial logis would be fairly balanced at proto tier, at lower tiers some of them would be comparatively better than others of the same tier... We have that now with the wonky module slot progression, and the whole point was to get rid of that issue finally. Really, the only way I can see to address both those issues fairly is giving all Logis their full equipment slot count across all tiers. I-Shayz-I came up with a good solution. Give logis a 3, 3, 4 equipment slot progression, but give the Amarr logi a sidearm instead of an equipment at proto only. So standard and advanced Amarr logis would be like other logis, but they get a sidearm at proto instead of the fourth equipment.
*sigh*
Unless I have completely lost my mind, originally the Amarr logi had that type of progression. The sidearm, which was supposed to be the defining feature of the Amarr logi, was only unlocked at a higher tier, and was not available at standard (or advanced, if I remember correctly).
This was changed later, as indeed, it was agreed by most that having that particular feature not available at lower tiers was odd. Every single other suit has all of its weapon slots unlocked at standard, the Amarr logi being the odd one out was... well, unnecessary.
Only having the sidearm available at proto is moving us further away from normalization, and is not the approach I would advocate at all. If we go that route, we should maybe also start looking at, say, scouts only having 2 equipment slots at proto, etc.
The most elegant solution to this would be to give all logis their full equipment count at all tiers. The difference between the different tiers should be narrowed, not increased. And why not start on bridging the gap now, if we are looking at completely flattened slot counts due to introducing power cores sometime down the road.
Have you considered installing the improved keyboard?
"Go Go Power Rangers!"
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