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Gabriel Ceja
Ready to Play
102
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Posted - 2015.05.26 18:15:00 -
[1] - Quote
There are some things that must be limited as we have seen before. One thing that I am pushing for to have a limit set on is vehicle hardeners.
Vehicle hardeners should be limited to one hardener type per fit, the reason for this is that right now stacking hardeners is making the game imbalanced for infantry and tank v tank.
When it comes to the tank v tank the ability to stack hardeners is making it so that other tanks that want to try more diverse fits can't even stand a chance against a hardener stacked vehicle and so a lot of these tank battles are just a battle of the hardeners. Rattati has said he wants to see different fits out there but as long as you can stack hardeners that isn't gonna happen.
Now for the infantry the story is even more ridiculous because vehicles with multiple hardeners are nearly impossible for infantry to destroy even with a joint effort of AV. With this being the case the people who say that AV should be a deterrent at best well their argument goes out the window because guess what when going up against a dual or more hardened vehicle AV can't even serve as a deterrent because the tank can just sit there and soak up all the damage then finally decides to move once their modules are close to deactivating.
Ultimately I'm hoping that hardeners get limited in order to balance the game a bit more also if hardeners get limited to one of each type per fit then maybe the fitting cost can go down and the activation delay can be removed too.
"Throw on the flux capacitor."
activates fuel injector
"WOOOOOO!!!"
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Kaeru Nayiri
Ready to Play
1
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Posted - 2015.05.26 18:44:00 -
[2] - Quote
I had this idea:
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2728100
to deal with the double hardener thing.
It could lead to some interesting stuff, including even MORE powerful active modules, without breaking balance.
Know what cannot be known.
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Roger Cordill
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
425
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Posted - 2015.05.26 19:03:00 -
[3] - Quote
This is been shown several times to be just silly. The only time a dual hardened HAV will keep a HAV alive is a dual rep Maddy by mathz, unless a ungodly amount of bank is applied (2 HAV's for example), or the HAV regardless of type or fit escapes, which is your fault.
The problem is reps, making them active with a shorter time period (used to be 15 seconds, that should work) than hardeners, they will be better suited for Gal tanking styles. Gunnlogis don't even need a change in this regard.
As a note, blasters need to become better at ganking ****. Shotgun blasters, I'll say it to the day Dust dies.
-Sent from your Fish Lord through his kind friend |
Roger Cordill
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
425
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Posted - 2015.05.26 19:06:00 -
[4] - Quote
(cont. from your Graceful Fish Lord)
A cap will only complicate things, it won't change the fact that passive reps are broke as all ****. |
Gabriel Ceja
Ready to Play
102
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Posted - 2015.05.27 01:56:00 -
[5] - Quote
Now I know a lot of people want to put the blame on active reps and granted they might be part of the issue but that argument is invalid because it works both ways the same can be said about the reps because reps alone wouldn't make a tank much of a threat.
So yeah both reps and hardeners combined are what make this work so efficiently but you say reps are the main issue here but look at how both modules stack up individually, you will see that a tank with nothing but hardeners vs a tank with nothing but reps will win every time whether it be tank v tank or being able to withstand AV.
Another thing is reps are only viable for armor tanks while hardeners in general work great for both shield and armor tanks but everyone seems to be laser focused on armor tanks but remember that just about all AV available is armor based so as is most weapons aren't hitting shield tanks at full efficacy now top that off with stacked hardeners and a shield tank is just as invincible.
"Throw on the flux capacitor."
activates fuel injector
"WOOOOOO!!!"
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
6
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Posted - 2015.05.27 02:30:00 -
[6] - Quote
Gabriel Ceja wrote:Now I know a lot of people want to put the blame on active reps and granted they might be part of the issue but that argument is invalid because it works both ways the same can be said about the reps because reps alone wouldn't make a tank much of a threat.
Except in the past, stacking hardeners was commonplace, and we did not experience the issues we currently see with tanking. Why do you feel that hardeners are the issue, when the biggest thing that changed was not the hardeners, but the reps instead?
"That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032
Dust514 // Podcast & Blog
www.biomassed.net
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Gabriel Ceja
Ready to Play
102
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Posted - 2015.05.27 05:00:00 -
[7] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:Gabriel Ceja wrote:Now I know a lot of people want to put the blame on active reps and granted they might be part of the issue but that argument is invalid because it works both ways the same can be said about the reps because reps alone wouldn't make a tank much of a threat. Except in the past, stacking hardeners was commonplace, and we did not experience the issues we currently see with tanking. Why do you feel that hardeners are the issue, when the biggest thing that changed was not the hardeners, but the reps instead?
Yes, I do recall but it seems that you might need to look further in remembering yourself because the reason they use to be stacked and not a problem was because for armor and shields as you should probably know had passive and active hardeners with significantly different stats to what we have now.
For shield hardeners the passive modules had a max of 15% percent and had stacking penalties that made anymore than 3 just about useless and the active while having a higher resistance of if I remember correctly 30% at proto but had an extremely low active time of about 5 or 10 seconds at best not sure while it's cool down was 30 seconds and there were no skills at the time that would increase active time or decrease cool down time.
Then for armor hardeners with the passive it was the same story as shield passives with modules while in the case of the active hardeners they did have a longer active time but also had a fair cooldown with a 25% I believe at proto.
To top it off if you'll notice another significant difference is that before these modules had different values from standard to proto unlike how it is today where the efficacy and active time is all the same with the cooldown serving as the only difference.
Even if it might have been commonplace it is because of these reasons that it wasn't such a problem but now the resistance values are much greater and can offer the same effect at all levels.
From this you can also see that reps wasn't the only thing that changed which is something that more people should take note of.
If there's any stats I got wrong I apologize in advance I'm going off what I can remember but I'm sure most is accurate or close enough
"Throw on the flux capacitor."
activates fuel injector
"WOOOOOO!!!"
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
9
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Posted - 2015.05.27 08:28:00 -
[8] - Quote
Roger Cordill wrote:This is been shown several times to be just silly. The only time a dual hardened HAV will keep a HAV alive is a dual rep Maddy by mathz, unless a ungodly amount of bank is applied (2 HAV's for example), or the HAV regardless of type or fit escapes, which is your fault.
The problem is reps, making them active with a shorter time period (used to be 15 seconds, that should work) than hardeners, they will be better suited for Gal tanking styles. Gunnlogis don't even need a change in this regard.
As a note, blasters need to become better at ganking ****. Shotgun blasters, I'll say it to the day Dust dies.
-Sent from your Fish Lord through his kind friend
math says otherwise.
WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
6
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Posted - 2015.05.27 16:49:00 -
[9] - Quote
You're also forgetting that vehicles got a passive 10% resistance to armor and shields from skills, so it was really 15% + 10% which brought shield restancr to similar levels of resistance that we have now.
And I would be totally fine with moving back to tiered hardeners.
"That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032
Dust514 // Podcast & Blog
www.biomassed.net
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