DUST Search - *Running out of skill points & controversial solutions*

Jadek Menaheim wrote:

el OPERATOR wrote:

No.
This is an altfarmer handout being sold as a benefit to newbies.

Passive SP gain cannot be extracted, leaving active SP you earn in battles and the SP you earn from boosters only available for extraction. District Kredits are required to purchase implant materials which can only be used with the appropriate warbarge level which requires components as normal to level up. If you buy implants on your PC playing main and send them to your alt that alt is still locked to the lowest implant factory meaning high grade implants won't work. If you're not actively engaging the alt character, then you don't have any non-passive experience to extract.

It's really quite easy to separate lifetime passive gain from anything else earned--just look at how long the account has been set to 'active.' Passive Sp is earned at a steady rate of X points per day. A 24 month old account would have 26,280,000 SP earned passively if the account accrued 36,000 SP passively per day, for example.

If a player wanted to extract their skills, they could only extract the amount in excess of this 26.2m SP figure. Anything earned by active play, bought boosters, and (maybe) daily log-in bonuses would be applicable to extract.

If there is a way for an alt-farmer to abuse this let's discuss rather than being reactionary. Big smile

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Jadek Menaheim Xer Cloud Consortium 6	Posted - 2015.05.26 07:53:00 - [1] - Quote [Idea] Use District Kredits to sell your unallocated skill points / / / / / / / / / / / / / TL;DR of that topic Core Idea -Unallocated active & boosted sp goes into a implant production. -Size of raw components accepted to build implant is determined by your warbarge module level = 5 grades, 5 levels. -Implant components are purchased with AUR or District Kredits -You chose how long it takes to produce. Faster = more skill wastage, Longer = less skill wastage -Stockpile it, trade it, or gift them to anyone Additional Features -Extra crafting production slots to speed up industry rate are bought with AUR or District Kredits -You sell it, use it, or craft it with salvage or booster. -Crafted item makes run of modifer pirate implants for special clone not allowed in high sec battles, or makes high powered boosters / / / / / / / / / / / / / Bright Steel wrote: SP is a very touchy subject... It's peoples sense of accomplishment and progression in this game and to alter it is something certainly not to take lightly in any respects. While I too am at around 44m SP there are super vets in the game who are already pushing 150-160m skill points. It was calculated a while back that if you had the money to stock up on Omega and stack them for 85 weeks with active play you could complete the Skill Tree ~269m SP (you keep earning more past the 'max'). I don't believe this factored in Instant Boosting after battles. There will come a point where people are going to run out of things to spend their points on, which forces CCP to perpetually make new things to fill this tree which isn't very ideal in terms of costs for a developer. There is also the feeling of grind in getting things to level 5 on a skill tree which people don't enjoy if they're not maxing boosters. Instead, getting to a point of maxing your cores and setting on a suit and play style you enjoy, while turning additional SP into a resource you and stockpile, sell, trade, or gift carries a difference sense of progression and daily accomplishment. There's the recruitment tool aspect I discussed in the topic of being able to use the stockpiled implants to get your friends into Dust more quickly. 10 million lifetime SP is that key point for beginning to be battle effective in PC. The wait and trail by fire for a newbie has it's merits, we all went through it, yet there is a zeitgeist of the games industry to reward instant gratification. CCP games should keep New Eden hard and unforgiving, but when getting people into their games, a system of friends rewarding friends with starter SP taken from their own characters feels like a solution that can satisfy both sides of the argument for gratification and process development. Dust 514 Market Trello. The essential resource for trading in Dust.
Jadek Menaheim Xer Cloud Consortium 6	Posted - 2015.05.26 10:51:00 - [2] - Quote What reservations do people have about this? Dust 514 Market Trello. The essential resource for trading in Dust.
Michael Arck 6	Posted - 2015.05.26 11:07:00 - [3] - Quote Starts brewing coffee I just got up...but damn, something worth discussing once the systems boot up. Archistrategos / The 7th Prime / Selah *Where the fear has gone there will be nothing....only I will remain
Michael Arck 6	Posted - 2015.05.26 13:01:00 - [4] - Quote Yes I know, what can we do with those amassed SPs. It has the brain calculating... Archistrategos / The 7th Prime / Selah *Where the fear has gone there will be nothing....only I will remain
Mejt0 Dead Man's Game 1	Posted - 2015.05.26 13:27:00 - [5] - Quote Even interesting but only high end veterans would benefit from this. Caldari Loyalist Uka ki onuoto Kirjuun. Nei ya arekaini saaja hui ka Heiian! Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu
Jadek Menaheim Xer Cloud Consortium 6	Posted - 2015.05.26 13:59:00 - [6] - Quote Mejt0 wrote: Even interesting but only high end veterans would benefit from this. That's part of the idea. It gives vets (both total skill maxers and vets content with few suit roles) an endless way to contribute back into Dust community once they reach peak. With the emphasis placed on players to build Command Points to fuel activity in PC 2.0 proposal, giving vets a recruitment incentive tool of SP implants to dangle over new player and potential corp recruits could play out very beneficially for the growth of Dust as a whole. This is an 'end game' mechanic, hence the emphasis of using either District Kredits or AUR to pay for implant materials and implant production slots. Dust 514 Market Trello. The essential resource for trading in Dust.
Jadek Menaheim Xer Cloud Consortium 6	Posted - 2015.05.26 14:04:00 - [7] - Quote Michael Arck wrote: Yes I know, what can we do with those amassed SPs. It has the brain calculating... Jadek wrote: Corporations could also use this as a system to pool SP resources to create skill-maxed champions who wage bloody war for them as pinnacle omni soldiers. Others like Viktor Hadah Jr may use their wealth to become an omni super mercenary by harnessing the SP sweat of the poors in exchange for a comfortable wage. Dust 514 Market Trello. The essential resource for trading in Dust.
Michael Arck 6	Posted - 2015.05.26 14:14:00 - [8] - Quote Hot damn I like the corporationcorporationscorporations pooling SP into a super soldier!!!! Locked character perhaps only used only at allotted "release" dates? Definitely emergent gameplay which compliments lore. I'm thinking Iron Man's Hulk Buster suit combined with ED 209. Could provide new threats within the PC battlefield. Archistrategos / The 7th Prime / Selah *Where the fear has gone there will be nothing....only I will remain
Jadek Menaheim Xer Cloud Consortium 6	Posted - 2015.05.26 14:32:00 - [9] - Quote Maybe it's something that could be paired with the drifter clone discoveries. Dust 514 Market Trello. The essential resource for trading in Dust.
DUST Fiend 17	Posted - 2015.05.26 15:58:00 - [10] - Quote No trading or gifting SP, ever. Alt farms don't need a buff. This thread is now a dance party ~ Dances Boldly ~ DUST STUFF

Michael Arck 6	Posted - 2015.05.26 19:49:00 - [11] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: No trading or gifting SP, ever. Alt farms don't need a buff. Oh c'mon! Join the think tank/brainstorm! Archistrategos / The 7th Prime / Selah *Where the fear has gone there will be nothing....only I will remain
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC 1	Posted - 2015.05.26 20:17:00 - [12] - Quote No. This is an altfarmer handout being sold as a benefit to newbies. Want to enhance the newbie experience? Empower them through worthwhile IformatIon to earn their own way at their own pace at their own discretion. Open-Beta Vet. Egbinger Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC 1	Posted - 2015.05.26 20:19:00 - [13] - Quote Michael Arck wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: No trading or gifting SP, ever. Alt farms don't need a buff. Oh c'mon! Join the think tank/brainstorm! Done. Two Thumbs Down. Next! Open-Beta Vet. Egbinger Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR
LOL KILLZ LulKlz 149	Posted - 2015.05.26 21:05:00 - [14] - Quote HELL NO, GET THERE ON YOUR OWN!!!! CEO of LulKlz/ chat channel LulKlz, code 0000 <--- numbers
Michael Arck 6	Posted - 2015.05.26 21:49:00 - [15] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: Michael Arck wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: No trading or gifting SP, ever. Alt farms don't need a buff. Oh c'mon! Join the think tank/brainstorm! Done. Two Thumbs Down. Next! Why so gray? Title did say controversial solutions. Let's be honest, its easy to simply speak the negative (apt farm) instead of using brain to create new ideas. I know I've been thinking about this all day. Archistrategos / The 7th Prime / Selah *Where the fear has gone there will be nothing....only I will remain
Krixus Flux Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 686	Posted - 2015.05.26 22:05:00 - [16] - Quote Michael Arck wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: Michael Arck wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: No trading or gifting SP, ever. Alt farms don't need a buff. Oh c'mon! Join the think tank/brainstorm! Done. Two Thumbs Down. Next! Why so gray? Title did say controversial solutions. Let's be honest, its easy to simply speak the negative (apt farm) instead of using brain to create new ideas. I know I've been thinking about this all day. I got you brother. How about arena battles? Sponsoring 3 man champion teams for bi-monthly Gladiator styled matches? The Merc characters are only activated and can be used for these competitions. Say that you would manage and finance your team. Your SP can be given to each individual of the team but limited to a certain amount, in designated training weeks. We could have rookie, mid level, and veteran brackets. Wagers can be made. Teams would have their own corporation logos and taglines. You can use AUR to create team specific colors. SP could be traded for map sockets or installations. Saying what's on people's minds
Knightshade Belladonna Kentucky Fried Clones 1	Posted - 2015.05.26 22:13:00 - [17] - Quote without even giving explanation.. again.. I say no to this.
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC 1	Posted - 2015.05.26 22:20:00 - [18] - Quote Michael Arck wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: Michael Arck wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: No trading or gifting SP, ever. Alt farms don't need a buff. Oh c'mon! Join the think tank/brainstorm! Done. Two Thumbs Down. Next! Why so gray? Title did say controversial solutions. Let's be honest, its easy to simply speak the negative (apt farm) instead of using brain to create new ideas. I know I've been thinking about this all day. What, you want new ideas on things to sink SP into? There's multiple trees already so answer one would be put points there. If theres nothing else there that interests a player then lucky them, happy day! They don't ever have to worry about SP again and can just play their one tired and always-subject-to-the-nerf-hammer role until they decide to change and skill something else. If the question is, "what could we think of to use surplus SP on?" then I'll burn some braincells on it. If the question is, "Why don't we become able to sell/trade/transfer SP from any one characer to any other character?" then my brainstorming is done, No is where I'm at. Yes, because of altfarming. AND outside of altfarms because it detracts substantially from the concept of a "persistent universe". You start and you GROW into where and what you're trying to do, not buy it or be given it. Open-Beta Vet. Egbinger Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC 1	Posted - 2015.05.26 22:24:00 - [19] - Quote Krixus Flux wrote: Michael Arck wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: Michael Arck wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: No trading or gifting SP, ever. Alt farms don't need a buff. Oh c'mon! Join the think tank/brainstorm! Done. Two Thumbs Down. Next! Why so gray? Title did say controversial solutions. Let's be honest, its easy to simply speak the negative (apt farm) instead of using brain to create new ideas. I know I've been thinking about this all day. I got you brother. How about arena battles? Sponsoring 3 man champion teams for bi-monthly Gladiator styled matches? The Merc characters are only activated and can be used for these competitions. Say that you would manage and finance your team. Your SP can be given to each individual of the team but limited to a certain amount, in designated training weeks. We could have rookie, mid level, and veteran brackets. Wagers can be made. Teams would have their own corporation logos and taglines. You can use AUR to create team specific colors. SP could be traded for map sockets or installations. This entire endevour is predicated on the movement of SP from one character to another to which I am opposed. Games and tournaments are cool and can already be set up with the existing mechanics structure we have now so theres no need to add SP portability to it. Open-Beta Vet. Egbinger Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC 1	Posted - 2015.05.26 22:47:00 - [20] - Quote IDEA: SP unlocks some certain WarBarge stratagem(s) like maybe the ability to call in solo minor and major OBs, depending on Stratagem level. Or a "market agent" like the Juno chick but accessible by SP only. I guess this is similiar to OP idea for how sales would work. Good Idea, OP! Open-Beta Vet. Egbinger Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR

Krixus Flux Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 687	Posted - 2015.05.26 23:32:00 - [21] - Quote I said mercenary characters would be locked to three man team arena battles. Also the SP could be given only during designated training times with limited SP disposal. Therefore, the sponsored merc couldn't be used for pc, pub matches and FW. And he wouldn't have SP advantages against others who don't have a crazy amount of SP Saying what's on people's minds
Jadek Menaheim Xer Cloud Consortium 6	Posted - 2015.05.26 23:50:00 - [22] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: No. This is an altfarmer handout being sold as a benefit to newbies. Passive SP gain cannot be extracted, leaving active SP you earn in battles and the SP you earn from boosters only available for extraction. District Kredits are required to purchase implant materials which can only be used with the appropriate warbarge level which requires components as normal to level up. If you buy implants on your PC playing main and send them to your alt that alt is still locked to the lowest implant factory meaning high grade implants won't work. If you're not actively engaging the alt character, then you don't have any non-passive experience to extract. It's really quite easy to separate lifetime passive gain from anything else earned--just look at how long the account has been set to 'active.' Passive Sp is earned at a steady rate of X points per day. A 24 month old account would have 26,280,000 SP earned passively if the account accrued 36,000 SP passively per day, for example. If a player wanted to extract their skills, they could only extract the amount in excess of this 26.2m SP figure. Anything earned by active play, bought boosters, and (maybe) daily log-in bonuses would be applicable to extract. If there is a way for an alt-farmer to abuse this let's discuss rather than being reactionary. Dust 514 Market Trello. The essential resource for trading in Dust.
Jadek Menaheim Xer Cloud Consortium 6	Posted - 2015.05.26 23:56:00 - [23] - Quote Krixus Flux wrote: And he wouldn't have SP advantages against others who don't have a crazy amount of SP Again, after a point 10m to 20m SP (this might lower with slot flattening and powercores), the amount of skill points you have really doesn't have an impact on your combat effectiveness. Having a maxed skill tree, the only benefit you have is the ability to respond to various play-counter-play situations, but if you have little skill with FPS' the 269m skill player is just going to die as easily to the 10m skill player in a focused role. After a point, skills don't enhance your killing power. Dust 514 Market Trello. The essential resource for trading in Dust.
Jadek Menaheim Xer Cloud Consortium 6	Posted - 2015.05.27 00:04:00 - [24] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: AND outside of altfarms because it detracts substantially from the concept of a "persistent universe". You start and you GROW into where and what you're trying to do, not buy it or be given it. This 'persistent universe' wouldn't exactly change. The lifetime passive SP you've gained could not be touched for extraction. It's a buffer and representative of your clone having spent time and lived in this universe. Active and Boosted SP are available for extraction. Think of them as actively shaped components of your mind. They have value in the military sector and second hand mercenary market because they have been whittled and shaped by field testing and activity--battled hardened components. Machine learning through trial and error. http://www.technologyreview.com/view/537101/deep-learning-machine-solves-the-cocktail-party-problem/ Dust 514 Market Trello. The essential resource for trading in Dust.
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC 1	Posted - 2015.05.27 00:06:00 - [25] - Quote Krixus Flux wrote: I said mercenary characters would be locked to three man team arena battles. Also the SP could be given only during designated training times with limited SP disposal. Therefore, the sponsored merc couldn't be used for pc, pub matches and FW. And he wouldn't have SP advantages against others who don't have a crazy amount of SP Then whats the point? Again, you can do all of this with existing mechanics- go "gladiate" brand new zero SP characters. Open-Beta Vet. Egbinger Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC 1	Posted - 2015.05.27 00:10:00 - [26] - Quote Jadek Menaheim wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: No. This is an altfarmer handout being sold as a benefit to newbies. Passive SP gain cannot be extracted, leaving active SP you earn in battles and the SP you earn from boosters only available for extraction. District Kredits are required to purchase implant materials which can only be used with the appropriate warbarge level which requires components as normal to level up. If you buy implants on your PC playing main and send them to your alt that alt is still locked to the lowest implant factory meaning high grade implants won't work. If you're not actively engaging the alt character, then you don't have any non-passive experience to extract. It's really quite easy to separate lifetime passive gain from anything else earned--just look at how long the account has been set to 'active.' Passive Sp is earned at a steady rate of X points per day. A 24 month old account would have 26,280,000 SP earned passively if the account accrued 36,000 SP passively per day, for example. If a player wanted to extract their skills, they could only extract the amount in excess of this 26.2m SP figure. Anything earned by active play, bought boosters, and (maybe) daily log-in bonuses would be applicable to extract. If there is a way for an alt-farmer to abuse this let's discuss rather than being reactionary. So I create an alt and send all my non-passively generated SP to it. Altfarm, stat wipe and brandnew identity achieved. Decisions having Consequences? Nullified. Open-Beta Vet. Egbinger Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC 1	Posted - 2015.05.27 00:13:00 - [27] - Quote Jadek Menaheim wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: AND outside of altfarms because it detracts substantially from the concept of a "persistent universe". You start and you GROW into where and what you're trying to do, not buy it or be given it. This 'persistent universe' wouldn't exactly change. The lifetime passive SP you've gained could not be touched for extraction. It's a buffer and representative of your clone having spent time and lived in this universe. Active and Boosted SP are available for extraction. Think of them as actively shaped components of your mind. They have value in the military sector and second hand mercenary market because they have been whittled and shaped by field testing and activity--battled hardened components. Machine learning through trial and error. http://www.technologyreview.com/view/537101/deep-learning-machine-solves-the-cocktail-party-problem/ How bout all that hard-learned trial-and-error military knowledge is already staying with the player who is already blessed with the ability to create a new alt and use it so theres no need for the SP to be carried over too? Open-Beta Vet. Egbinger Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC 1	Posted - 2015.05.27 00:17:00 - [28] - Quote Jadek Menaheim wrote: Krixus Flux wrote: And he wouldn't have SP advantages against others who don't have a crazy amount of SP Again, after a point 10m to 20m SP (this might lower with slot flattening and powercores), the amount of skill points you have really doesn't have an impact on your combat effectiveness. Having a maxed skill tree, the only benefit you have is the ability to respond to various play-counter-play situations, but if you have little skill with FPS' the 269m skill player is just going to die as easily to the 10m skill player in a focused role. After a point, skills don't enhance your killing power. Wrong, since the entire games fundamental core is play/counterplay he who has the most viable counters available is most likely to win. Sure, your 10M guy gets a kill or two but Mr 269M guy just keeps going through the toolbox till he finds the mix to put 10M man into the redline. please...smh Open-Beta Vet. Egbinger Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC 1	Posted - 2015.05.27 00:18:00 - [29] - Quote Keep sending those likes, I get those one at a time y'know. Open-Beta Vet. Egbinger Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR
Jadek Menaheim Xer Cloud Consortium 6	Posted - 2015.05.27 00:20:00 - [30] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: So I create an alt and send all my non-passively generated SP to it. Altfarm, stat wipe and brandnew identity achieved. Decisions having Consequences? Nullified. It's a brave new world for the meta, good sir. I just hope you don't use voice comms. It takes investment to go underground with a new identity. Dust 514 Market Trello. The essential resource for trading in Dust.



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