| Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Sir Dukey
G0DS AM0NG MEN
New Eden's Heros
2
   |
Posted - 2015.05.22 01:11:00 -
[1] - Quote
Make the Armor Reps Active.
Boom. Fixed. How hard was that.
200 reps per sec for 15 sec basic
250 ADV
300 PRO.
"Skill for thee but no skill for me" so is the saying of the swarm infantry.
|
Scheneighnay McBob
Tribal Liberation Force Paramilitary
6
|
Posted - 2015.05.22 01:19:00 -
[2] - Quote
Isn't your character old enough to remember when that was the case, and it didn't work?
Some details can be ignored
|
True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
19
|
Posted - 2015.05.22 01:24:00 -
[3] - Quote
Sir Dukey wrote:Make the Armor Reps Active.
Boom. Fixed. How hard was that.
200 reps per sec for 15 sec basic
250 ADV
300 PRO.
200 is a little much.
Think staggered Repair Pulses since the numbers we have now for Armour Repairers are actually very fair for an active modules.
137.5 per second on the Complex Heavy Armour Repairer. [Passive]
414 per pulse [every 3 seconds] for a total duration of 15 seconds [unmodified] = 138 Armour Repair Per Second = 2070 total armour repaired over 15 seconds.
Worth noting the with the modified Core Module Skills that active duration of the Heavy Armour Repair extends from 15 seconds to 18.75 seconds allowing for one additional pulse of the module which = 2484 total armour repaired over 18 seconds.
"Crush all who complain!"
- Arkena Wyrnspire
|
True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
19
|
Posted - 2015.05.22 01:25:00 -
[4] - Quote
Scheneighnay McBob wrote:Isn't your character old enough to remember when that was the case, and it didn't work?
I believe this was primary because armour hardeners were bugged. However back when this was the primary mode of Armour repairs HAV were not considered incredibly OP due to their being windows of opportunity to strike at them when repairs were down.
"Crush all who complain!"
- Arkena Wyrnspire
|
KEROSIINI-TERO
The Rainbow Effect
2
|
Posted - 2015.05.22 01:33:00 -
[5] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Scheneighnay McBob wrote:Isn't your character old enough to remember when that was the case, and it didn't work? I believe this was primary because armour hardeners were bugged. However back when this was the primary mode of Armour repairs HAV were not considered incredibly OP due to their being windows of opportunity to strike at them when repairs were down.
Agreed, there was no problem in reps being active themselves.
It was the initial -60% damage reduction initially... =P
which was not a bug.
Looking at both sides of the coin.
Even Aurum one.
|
True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
19
|
Posted - 2015.05.22 01:39:00 -
[6] - Quote
KEROSIINI-TERO wrote:True Adamance wrote:Scheneighnay McBob wrote:Isn't your character old enough to remember when that was the case, and it didn't work? I believe this was primary because armour repairers were bugged. However back when this was the primary mode of Armour repairs HAV were not considered incredibly OP due to their being windows of opportunity to strike at them when repairs were down. Agreed, there was no problem in reps being active themselves. It was the initial -60% damage reduction initially... =P which was not a bug.
They pulsed every second or something like that with full effect or am I wrong in thinking?
"Crush all who complain!"
- Arkena Wyrnspire
|
Sir Dukey
G0DS AM0NG MEN
New Eden's Heros
2
|
Posted - 2015.05.22 02:53:00 -
[7] - Quote
Scheneighnay McBob wrote:Isn't your character old enough to remember when that was the case, and it didn't work?
I am, and it did work.
"Skill for thee but no skill for me" so is the saying of the swarm infantry.
|
Sir Dukey
G0DS AM0NG MEN
New Eden's Heros
2
|
Posted - 2015.05.22 02:54:00 -
[8] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Sir Dukey wrote:Make the Armor Reps Active.
Boom. Fixed. How hard was that.
200 reps per sec for 15 sec basic
250 ADV
300 PRO. 200 is a little much. Think staggered Repair Pulses since the numbers we have now for Armour Repairers are actually very fair for an active modules. 137.5 per second on the Complex Heavy Armour Repairer. [Passive] 414 per pulse [every 3 seconds] for a total duration of 15 seconds [unmodified] = 138 Armour Repair Per Second = 2070 total armour repaired over 15 seconds. Worth noting the with the modified Core Module Skills that active duration of the Heavy Armour Repair extends from 15 seconds to 18.75 seconds allowing for one additional pulse of the module which = 2484 total armour repaired over 18 seconds.
right.
"Skill for thee but no skill for me" so is the saying of the swarm infantry.
|
Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
6
|
Posted - 2015.05.22 02:55:00 -
[9] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Scheneighnay McBob wrote:Isn't your character old enough to remember when that was the case, and it didn't work? I believe this was primary because armour hardeners were bugged. However back when this was the primary mode of Armour repairs HAV were not considered incredibly OP due to their being windows of opportunity to strike at them when repairs were down.
Armor Tanking was really an exercise in micro management back in the day. Typically 3 hardeners, 1-2 active reps, damage control, heat sinks, ect. Armor tanking was an art form back then, now with passive reps it's just derpy.
"That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032
Dust514 // Podcast & Blog
www.biomassed.net
|
Sir Dukey
G0DS AM0NG MEN
New Eden's Heros
2
|
Posted - 2015.05.22 02:55:00 -
[10] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:KEROSIINI-TERO wrote:True Adamance wrote:Scheneighnay McBob wrote:Isn't your character old enough to remember when that was the case, and it didn't work? I believe this was primary because armour repairers were bugged. However back when this was the primary mode of Armour repairs HAV were not considered incredibly OP due to their being windows of opportunity to strike at them when repairs were down. Agreed, there was no problem in reps being active themselves. It was the initial -60% damage reduction initially... =P which was not a bug. They pulsed every second or something like that with full effect or am I wrong in thinking?
correct, they gave 300-400 armor every second whereas shield boosters gave 250-340 every 3 secs.
"Skill for thee but no skill for me" so is the saying of the swarm infantry.
|
|
|
Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
6
|
Posted - 2015.05.22 03:10:00 -
[11] - Quote
Sir Dukey wrote:True Adamance wrote:KEROSIINI-TERO wrote:True Adamance wrote:Scheneighnay McBob wrote:Isn't your character old enough to remember when that was the case, and it didn't work? I believe this was primary because armour repairers were bugged. However back when this was the primary mode of Armour repairs HAV were not considered incredibly OP due to their being windows of opportunity to strike at them when repairs were down. Agreed, there was no problem in reps being active themselves. It was the initial -60% damage reduction initially... =P which was not a bug. They pulsed every second or something like that with full effect or am I wrong in thinking? correct, they gave 300-400 armor every second whereas shield boosters gave 250-340 every 3 secs.
You have that backwards, armor repped for a large amount at the end of a 3 second cycle, shields repped for a smaller amount and the start of a 1 second cycle. So they each have 5 pulses of HP, but armor did it over 15 seconds and shields did it over 5. This is similar to how it works in EVE as well.
"That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032
Dust514 // Podcast & Blog
www.biomassed.net
|
Sir Dukey
G0DS AM0NG MEN
New Eden's Heros
2
|
Posted - 2015.05.22 03:13:00 -
[12] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:
You have that backwards, armor repped for a large amount at the end of a 3 second cycle, shields repped for a smaller amount and the start of a 1 second cycle. So they each have 5 pulses of HP, but armor did it over 15 seconds and shields did it over 5. This is similar to how it works in EVE as well.
Actually, you have it wrong. Back before all this arcade tank style stuff in 1.7, I was a full time tanker. I am 36912305741232% sure that armor repped straight 300-400 hp per sec for 15 secs while shields repped 250-350 every 3 secs for 15 secs. This was one of the major reasons Madrugars dominated Gunnlogi's back in the days after uprising.
"Skill for thee but no skill for me" so is the saying of the swarm infantry.
|
Optimus Last Prime
T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K
5
|
Posted - 2015.05.22 03:23:00 -
[13] - Quote
That would just be too O.P.
-"You are crazy with that melee kill streak"-viper xsniper
|
Sir Dukey
G0DS AM0NG MEN
New Eden's Heros
2
|
Posted - 2015.05.22 03:25:00 -
[14] - Quote
Optimus Last Prime wrote:That would just be too O.P.
Like the tanks we have right now repping 200 armor per sec forever?
"Skill for thee but no skill for me" so is the saying of the swarm infantry.
|
Racro 01 Arifistan
Simple Minded People Pty. Ltd.
547
|
Posted - 2015.05.22 03:39:00 -
[15] - Quote
when they changed reps from active to passive it ****** over a whole gameplay aspect that was completely fine.
all ccp had to do was bring the armour hardner res down from 60% to at least 40%
shield hardners having 60% res was justified through the fact that their HP ceiling (buffer wise) was not at the level armour could achieve.
with a single complex 120mm plate (carapace 120mm plate as they used to be called) would bring a madrugar (surya cough) to 7415 armour.
the gunnlogi on the other hand was able to get around 5-6k shielding with 1 heavy shield extender.
shield boosters also used to work fine as well with the old pulse repping mechanic until we have the ****** single use booster now.
revert vehicle gameplay (not stats) back to how it was in chromosome and pre-chromosome and all will be fine.
while we are at it....
GIVE ME MY MARDUER HAV'S BACK!!!!
Elite Gallenten Soldier
|
True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
19
|
Posted - 2015.05.22 03:39:00 -
[16] - Quote
Sir Dukey wrote:Optimus Last Prime wrote:That would just be too O.P. Like the tanks we have right now repping 200 armor per sec forever?
Again repping for values over 200 per second is not the root of the issue, its that the modules are constant and do not require management.
"Crush all who complain!"
- Arkena Wyrnspire
|
Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
6
|
Posted - 2015.05.22 07:34:00 -
[17] - Quote
Wait I'm confused, are you guys saying that armor hardeners were 60% back when we had active armor repairers? I'm fairly certain that was never the case. We had 25% hardeners and a passive 10% resist from skills (shield was 30% and 10%), and it was like that for....a very long time. The higher percentage hardeners didn't come around until the same time the passive armor repairers did.
"That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032
Dust514 // Podcast & Blog
www.biomassed.net
|
Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
6
|
Posted - 2015.05.22 07:51:00 -
[18] - Quote
Sir Dukey wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:
You have that backwards, armor repped for a large amount at the end of a 3 second cycle, shields repped for a smaller amount and the start of a 1 second cycle. So they each have 5 pulses of HP, but armor did it over 15 seconds and shields did it over 5. This is similar to how it works in EVE as well.
Actually, you have it wrong. Back before all this arcade tank style stuff in 1.7, I was a full time tanker. I am 36912305741232% sure that armor repped straight 300-400 hp per sec for 15 secs while shields repped 250-350 every 3 secs for 15 secs. This was one of the major reasons Madrugars dominated Gunnlogi's back in the days after uprising.
Hmmm I'm just going off of what I remember, as well as this spreadsheet which was assembled from pre-1.7 sources.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ZSZ8qiukISEjPnmqdR1L-fxrVZRA2PzIwValJQ6JYLQ/edit?usp=sharing
Also a couple of additional resources
http://wiki.dust514.info/index.php?title=Armor_Repairers_(Vehicles)
http://wiki.dust514.info/index.php?title=Shield_Boosters
That also state that the pulse interval for armor was 3 seconds and shield 1, but both had 5 pulses each. Note that they were last updated before 1.7.
I mean I could be wrong, just all the evidence I can find points to the conclusion I've made.
"That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032
Dust514 // Podcast & Blog
www.biomassed.net
|
Bright Cloud
Namtar Elite
Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2015.05.22 13:24:00 -
[19] - Quote
Sir Dukey wrote:Make the Armor Reps Active.
Boom. Fixed. How hard was that.
200 reps per sec for 15 sec basic
250 ADV
300 PRO.
Yeah right withe inbuild passive repair (+30HP/s) this would be insanely gamebreaking. I certainly do remember how OP as hell active reps where on armor tanks which gave them god alike status. And then we are adding skills ontop of those stats which would turn out with these numbers (25% bonus from passive skills +30hp/s passive inbuild rep):
STD=280HP/s
ADV= 342,5HP/s
PRO= 405HP/s
How on earth do you want to get trough that when a armor hardener is on? If you have 2 on your tank you could essantially double those numbers. While a armor hardener and just one repper would be on the tank would be nearly unkillable regardless what you shot it with. With 2 reppers on you could have a insane rep power of 780HP/s (300X1.25X2+30).
Heck with the current setup of tanks (2 hardeners, rep and plate) it could rep from allmost dead to full armor HP back in ~10 secs. And the actual duration would be 18,75 secs with skills.
Rudimentary Mercs of scrubs and incompetence. You touch my mind, fumbling in Ignorance, incapable of understanding.
|
Tesfa Alem
Death by Disassociation
1
|
Posted - 2015.05.22 13:58:00 -
[20] - Quote
I have enough restrictions on flying my incubus already, i dont need to cycle armor reps each time i take the slightest bit of amage.
No thank you.
Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
|
|
|
Derpty Derp
Dead Man's Game
1
|
Posted - 2015.05.22 14:29:00 -
[21] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:now with passive reps it's just derpy.
No I prefer the Gunnlogi... |
Doc DDD
TeamPlayers
Negative-Feedback
441
|
Posted - 2015.05.22 15:37:00 -
[22] - Quote
I don't even think armor tanks need any tweaking now the you can SKILLL INTO PROTO AV IN A WEEK.
It used to take grinding for a month just to get proto grenades, now you can have a proto minmando with proto swarms in the same time.
Shield tanks need to be fixed so they can get out of the redline, I'd post how, but have decided to beat my head against the wall instead, it is much more productive. |
Tebu Gan
Capital Acquisitions LLC
1
|
Posted - 2015.05.22 17:59:00 -
[23] - Quote
Scheneighnay McBob wrote:Isn't your character old enough to remember when that was the case, and it didn't work?
There was a lot more going on there than just reps. Reps were bugged, shield hardeners only lasted like 10 seconds ect ect ect.
Your argument fails.
Tanks - Balancing Turrets
|
Alena Ventrallis
Commando Perkone
Caldari State
3
|
Posted - 2015.05.22 18:40:00 -
[24] - Quote
I don't even think active reps are necessary (though I do think they should be implemented)
Tanks are too damn fast. If I catch a tank by surprise with PC and AV nades, he shouldn't be able to zip off to safety while going faster than a LAV and accelerating MUCH faster than a LAV can.
Whirly gun make much thunder! - Victor
|
Sir Dukey
G0DS AM0NG MEN
New Eden's Heros
2
|
Posted - 2015.05.22 19:52:00 -
[25] - Quote
Doc DDD wrote:I don't even think armor tanks need any tweaking now the you can SKILLL INTO PROTO AV IN A WEEK.
It used to take grinding for a month just to get proto grenades, now you can have a proto minmando with proto swarms in the same time.
Shield tanks need to be fixed so they can get out of the redline, I'd post how, but have decided to beat my head against the wall instead, it is much more productive.
Really, I remember shooting like 5 clips of proto Wiki swarms at your madrugar and you stood there herp a derping. It was like shooting you with marsh mellows.
"Skill for thee but no skill for me" so is the saying of the swarm infantry.
|
Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
6
|
Posted - 2015.05.22 23:08:00 -
[26] - Quote
Tesfa Alem wrote:I have enough restrictions on flying my incubus already, i dont need to cycle armor reps each time i take the slightest bit of damage.
No thank you.
That's how it used to be and people managed to fly just fine?
"That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032
Dust514 // Podcast & Blog
www.biomassed.net
|
Doc DDD
TeamPlayers
Negative-Feedback
443
|
Posted - 2015.05.23 14:34:00 -
[27] - Quote
Sir Dukey wrote:Doc DDD wrote:I don't even think armor tanks need any tweaking now the you can SKILLL INTO PROTO AV IN A WEEK.
It used to take grinding for a month just to get proto grenades, now you can have a proto minmando with proto swarms in the same time.
Shield tanks need to be fixed so they can get out of the redline, I'd post how, but have decided to beat my head against the wall instead, it is much more productive. Really, I remember shooting like 5 clips of proto Wiki swarms at your madrugar and you stood there herp a derping. It was like shooting you with marsh mellows.
Why shoot when solo while hardeners are up?
Fire once, watch shields disappear, tank activates hardeners, fire second time and 500 armor comes off, if no one else is firing count to 30 and start firing again as tank will be paper thin. If one person can spam swarms at the hardest vehicle to blow up, and blow it up no matter the situation, then 2 people with swarms would keep vehicles 200 meters in the redline. Then you would ask for a redline nerf so you could blow them up too.
|
Sir Dukey
G0DS AM0NG MEN
New Eden's Heros
2
|
Posted - 2015.05.23 15:06:00 -
[28] - Quote
Doc DDD wrote:Sir Dukey wrote:Doc DDD wrote:I don't even think armor tanks need any tweaking now the you can SKILLL INTO PROTO AV IN A WEEK.
It used to take grinding for a month just to get proto grenades, now you can have a proto minmando with proto swarms in the same time.
Shield tanks need to be fixed so they can get out of the redline, I'd post how, but have decided to beat my head against the wall instead, it is much more productive. Really, I remember shooting like 5 clips of proto Wiki swarms at your madrugar and you stood there herp a derping. It was like shooting you with marsh mellows. Why shoot when solo while hardeners are up? Fire once, watch shields disappear, tank activates hardeners, fire second time and 500 armor comes off, if no one else is firing count to 30 and start firing again as tank will be paper thin. If one person can spam swarms at the hardest vehicle to blow up, and blow it up no matter the situation, then 2 people with swarms would keep vehicles 200 meters in the redline. Then you would ask for a redline nerf so you could blow them up too.
Shooting 5 clips at a Hardened shield tank will nearly kill it (most likely will) , you remained at full Armor thought the fight. I doubt having even 2 other people with me would have done anything to that Madrugar. Madrugat+hardener= I WIN button.
"Skill for thee but no skill for me" so is the saying of the swarm infantry.
|
Doc DDD
TeamPlayers
Negative-Feedback
445
|
Posted - 2015.05.23 20:20:00 -
[29] - Quote
it's hardly an I WIN button, more of an ' i can get out of the redline for 30 seconds without having to restock 1.3 million isk worth of tanks '. Like I said, nerfing armor tanks ( reps or hardeners ) would allow 2 swarmers to destroy every vehicle before they get out of the redline. Shield tanks already need 3 or 4 hardeners just to get out of the redline for 10 seconds before diving back in. Hardeners are literally the only thing allowing vehicles to get out of the redline. |
True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
19
|
Posted - 2015.05.23 22:53:00 -
[30] - Quote
Doc DDD wrote:it's hardly an I WIN button, more of an ' i can get out of the redline for 30 seconds without having to restock 1.3 million isk worth of tanks '. Like I said, nerfing armor tanks ( reps or hardeners ) would allow 2 swarmers to destroy every vehicle before they get out of the redline. Shield tanks already need 3 or 4 hardeners just to get out of the redline for 10 seconds before diving back in. Hardeners are literally the only thing allowing vehicles to get out of the redline.
It's not nerfing hardeners at all. It's merely ensuring the function in a more representative manner of the New Eden Armour while allowing Shield HAV a certain degree of functionality.
Active Armour Repairers are the only way to ensure that any semblance of skill is returned to HAV combat. However given that Armour HAV would function in this manner I stand by need to bring back 180mm armour plates as well.
"Crush all who complain!"
- Arkena Wyrnspire
|
|
|
|
|
| |
|
| Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |