DUST Search - Scanning should reveal the scanner

Talos Vagheitan wrote:

I've actually been thinking about this, and I've tweaked the idea a bit.

Most agree scanning should have a drawback. Therefore somebody planted in a group, perma-tri-scanning should therefore face the biggest drawback.

When you scan, instead of increasing your DB to any point, you should somewhat "scan yourself" to the enemies you just scanned. Meaning you will light up to their radar+HUD the same way you do. You can counter that by running damps on yourself.

To clarify:

When you scan a group of enemies, it would function as if they scanned you as well, but at 75% strength and duration of your own scan. You could counter this by simply running dampeners on yourself. If you can get under 75% of your own scans, then you're good. So a Gal-logi in this case would have to choose between swapping out some armor for damps in order to not reveal himself to the team with his scans, or just choosing to paint himself to the entire team.

A dampened scout should have no problems getting under 75% of his own scan.

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Talos Vagheitan Ancient Exiles. 1	Posted - 2015.05.20 20:03:00 - [1] - Quote When you use a scanner, your scan profile should temporarily spike to 2X (or else a flat 20Db) for around 5 seconds or so. This would give scanners a drawback, without over-nerfing them. Right now there are no real drawbacks to scanning at all. This system would make using your scanner a more tactical choice, especially if you are alone and don't want to be discovered yourself. !--CCP, let's push for the license of Dust on both current Gen consoles--!
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 9	Posted - 2015.05.20 20:27:00 - [2] - Quote My 3x Scanner GalLogi loadouts are arguably OP; this wouldn't affect them in the slightest; i'm going to get scanned anyway. My 1x Scanner Scout loadouts (on the other hand) are arguably UP; this would nerf then hard. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
Buwaro Draemon WarRavens 1	Posted - 2015.05.20 20:32:00 - [3] - Quote Exactly what I've been saying. The many times that I have said that equipping a scanner has no real drawback even so if you put all equipment slots with scanners you still get no drawbacks only for people to tell me "You are vulnerable while you scan" or "Run damps scrub" are uncountable. This adds drawback and I've been trying to push for it but stompers will always want easy mode. Right now I am forced to whip out my GalScout that has 15 dB profile almost every match to escape those permascans and find the scanners. Idk about you but I am no Scout and beeing forced to use GalScout almost every match because of the goddamn scanners is getting tirying. The Forums are a special place.
Derpty Derp Dead Man's Game 1	Posted - 2015.05.20 23:17:00 - [4] - Quote Sounds like a good idea, wont really affect the scanner too much, as they'll likely see everyone who's about to gank them, making for an easy getaway... Also allows them to scan from the middle of their squad... All enemies come running, straight into an ambush. I like it.
Talos Vagheitan Ancient Exiles. 1	Posted - 2015.05.21 03:38:00 - [5] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: My 3x Scanner GalLogi loadouts are arguably overpowered; fits like them have everything to do with today's state of permascan. This change wouldn't affect or hinder my GalLogi loadouts in the slightest; they're going to get scanned anyway. My Scanner Scout loadouts, on the other hand ... this change would hit them hard. They aren't to blame for permascan; why should they take the hit? I don't think this only hits scouts at all. There are definitely Gallogi's that run dampeners, and therefore Gallogi's that don't want to be scanned. Furthermore, I would like to make the profile spike stack. Meaning, if you use a scanner and double your profile, using another scanner before your cooldown has expired would cause it to double again, and so on. In this case, a tri-scanning Gal-logi would be hit quite hard, much harder than a scout with a single scanner. When your profile reaches a high enough point, I think your chevron should simply light up for the entire team. This would make you quite a target for the enemy team. !--CCP, let's push for the license of Dust on both current Gen consoles--!
Bright Cloud Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2015.05.21 05:16:00 - [6] - Quote And how would this affect gameplay? Scanner logis are not really known to be "stealthy" and you gotta keep in mind that the scan profile means nothing if the guy sits 200m away from you where your passive scans will never pick him up. Plus they are usually hiding behind a big crowd of heavys or assaults and good luck getting past them while you have beeing scanned. Basically they could have a scan profile of 100DB but you still wont see them on your passive scans cause the range of your passive scans is rather short. Rudimentary Mercs of scrubs and incompetence. You touch my mind, fumbling in Ignorance, incapable of understanding.
nelo kazuma Ecce Initio RLC. RUST415 201	Posted - 2015.05.21 08:27:00 - [7] - Quote Out of all the ideas and nerf complain posts this honestly is a great idea perhaps a special Indicator when scans are being done or doue profile there should be some type of penalty. Id rather see scans be switched to sqd based but then again I do believe equipment should benifit team as a whole as well like uplinks nanos and to limit that use is unfair. FOR THE STATE ^(-_-) Cal Loyalist For Life
nelo kazuma Ecce Initio RLC. RUST415 201	Posted - 2015.05.21 08:42:00 - [8] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: My 3x Scanner GalLogi loadouts are arguably overpowered; fits like them have everything to do with today's state of permascan. This change wouldn't affect or hinder my GalLogi loadouts in the slightest; they're going to get scanned anyway. My Scanner Scout loadouts, on the other hand ... this change would hit them hard. They aren't to blame for permascan; why should they take the hit? Their should be a penalty to all equipment use. Amar logis lose equipment bonus when they die same as cal with nanos not to mention bandwith so that limits our use. Even bonuses aside rep tools put logis at a disadvantage cuz they cannot defend while repping. The scanner is the only one without some sort of penalty . If u wanna argue wp its still highly advantages to run scanners for ur team and for a gal logi whose bonus is duration and precision this still makes the scanner the only equipment without any type of penalty to use and its infinite FOR THE STATE ^(-_-) Cal Loyalist For Life
nelo kazuma Ecce Initio RLC. RUST415 201	Posted - 2015.05.21 08:49:00 - [9] - Quote Bright Cloud wrote: And how would this affect gameplay? Scanner logis are not really known to be "stealthy" and you gotta keep in mind that the scan profile means nothing if the guy sits 200m away from you where your passive scans will never pick him up. Plus they are usually hiding behind a big crowd of heavys or assaults and good luck getting past them while you have beeing scanned. Basically they could have a scan profile of 100DB but you still wont see them on your passive scans cause the range of your passive scans is rather short. Thats y if an enemy is scanning everyone he scans should see him light up as well with a distinctive indicator regardless of distance if he scans you and your sqd should be able to know who that person is. This makes it so people who use 200 meter scanners cant hide while they let there team do the work. Even if scan is prevented they should still light up so scouts or those running damps will target them first to assist their team FOR THE STATE ^(-_-) Cal Loyalist For Life
Starlight Burner Arrary of Clusters 267	Posted - 2015.05.21 09:21:00 - [10] - Quote What if the trade off for Active Scans followed EVE Online similarly? Shield tankers in EVE have a HUGE signature radius when stacking shield rigs. So, if a person performs a active scan, their dropsuit scan profile significantly raises based on the power and distance of the Active Scanner? their location could be pinpointed on the minimap / radar with a red circle. The greater more powerful the scanner, the tighter and more bold the red circle could be. Doesn't clearly give them away but it pinpoints their area down. Opinions? CEO of Arrary of Clusters, a close relations corporation Caldari Factional Warfare, enlist today! Thank you for DUST

Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 9	Posted - 2015.05.21 12:34:00 - [11] - Quote Talos Vagheitan wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: My 3x Scanner GalLogi loadouts are arguably overpowered; fits like them have everything to do with today's state of permascan. This change wouldn't affect or hinder my GalLogi loadouts in the slightest; they're going to get scanned anyway. My Scanner Scout loadouts, on the other hand ... this change would hit them hard. They aren't to blame for permascan; why should they take the hit? I don't think this only hits scouts at all. There are definitely Gallogi's that run dampeners, and therefore Gallogi's that don't want to be scanned. Errr ... When I run GalLogi, I stack brick, dig in with the herd, and rapid-fire 90 degree / 200M scans. If the enemy is doing the same (and they often are) running 2 damps (26dB) wouldn't accomplish anything; I'd need 5 complex damps to get below their 21dB, long-range scans. I'm fairly certain that these are the units permascanning Ambush, Dom and Acq matches. Your change won't affect them. And if there are in fact "ninja Logis" sneaking around out there as well, this change would succeed only in getting them back behind blue lines and back into brick. Their permascan would not be curbed. Your change will absolutely affect Scouts who are running scanners. They're running scanners to increase their odds of avoiding detection (survival) and to compensate for EWAR changes which are not working in their favor. Scouts are relatively weak at the moment; many are running scanners to help control their losses. They'll stop if this change is implemented, their losses will increase, and class kill/spawn efficiency and usage rates will drop further. TL;DR - If you're playing the long game to get Scouts buffed, this change puts you squarely on the right track. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
Mobius Wyvern Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 6	Posted - 2015.05.21 13:05:00 - [12] - Quote Talos Vagheitan wrote: When you use a scanner, your scan profile should temporarily spike to 2X (or else a flat 25Db or so) until your scanner cooldown has expired. Using an additional scanner before that first cooldown has expired, then your profile would double again to 4X your original scan profile. This would give scanners a drawback, without over-nerfing them. Right now there are no real drawbacks to scanning at all. This system would make using your scanner a more tactical choice, especially if you are alone and don't want to be discovered yourself. Personally, I would love to combine this with removing scan persistence and then giving scans a duration. That way if you want to keep people "painted" you have to risk getting jumped while doing so. Being able to click a button and leave everyone in that snapshot blinking with arrows indicating where they're facing for as long as you can is dumb. No, I do not have any SP at all put into Scout suits. I also use Active Scanners myself on my APEX Logi. Amidst the blue skies A link from past to future The sheltering wings of the protector
Talos Vagheitan Ancient Exiles. 1	Posted - 2015.05.21 14:14:00 - [13] - Quote I've actually been thinking about this, and I've tweaked the idea a bit. Most agree scanning should have a drawback. Therefore somebody planted in a group, perma-tri-scanning should therefore face the biggest drawback. When you scan, instead of increasing your DB to any point, you should somewhat "scan yourself" to the enemies you just scanned. Meaning you will light up to their radar+HUD the same way you do. You can counter that by running damps on yourself. To clarify: When you scan a group of enemies, it would function as if they scanned you as well, but at 75% strength and duration of your own scan. You could counter this by simply running dampeners on yourself. If you can get under 75% of your own scans, then you're good. So a Gal-logi in this case would have to choose between swapping out some armor for damps in order to not reveal himself to the team with his scans, or just choosing to paint himself to the entire team. A dampened scout should have no problems getting under 75% of his own scan. !--CCP, let's push for the license of Dust on both current Gen consoles--!
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 8	Posted - 2015.05.21 15:37:00 - [14] - Quote This has been suggested before. No dev responses in any of the threads. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 9	Posted - 2015.05.21 16:59:00 - [15] - Quote Talos Vagheitan wrote: I've actually been thinking about this, and I've tweaked the idea a bit. Most agree scanning should have a drawback. Therefore somebody planted in a group, perma-tri-scanning should therefore face the biggest drawback. When you scan, instead of increasing your DB to any point, you should somewhat "scan yourself" to the enemies you just scanned. Meaning you will light up to their radar+HUD the same way you do. You can counter that by running damps on yourself. To clarify: When you scan a group of enemies, it would function as if they scanned you as well, but at 75% strength and duration of your own scan. You could counter this by simply running dampeners on yourself. If you can get under 75% of your own scans, then you're good. So a Gal-logi in this case would have to choose between swapping out some armor for damps in order to not reveal himself to the team with his scans, or just choosing to paint himself to the entire team. A dampened scout should have no problems getting under 75% of his own scan. Interesting! Checking numbers ... Scout If a Scout is running a 28dB scanner, he'd need to be below 35dB to beat his own scans at 75% strength. A max-skilled Scout (27dB / 32dB) wouldn't need to run any damps at all (too lenient?). GalLogi If a GalLogi is running a 28dB (21dB w/bonus) scanner, he'd need to be below 26dB to beat his own scans at 75% strength. That would require 2 complex damps + 1 basic damp. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
Scheneighnay McBob Tribal Liberation Force Paramilitary 6	Posted - 2015.05.22 02:20:00 - [16] - Quote True, and is accurate to RL ewar Some details can be ignored
Imp Smash Molon Labe. RUST415 850	Posted - 2015.05.22 04:27:00 - [17] - Quote I like this idea. Creates more of a risk to scanning without changing functionality, WP generation, or forcing the scanner to sacrifice suit customization. ALLOWS suit customization for said drawback, and creates more tactical play in battle for both the scanner and the scannies. +1 from me.
BLOOD Ruler Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire 1	Posted - 2015.05.22 14:18:00 - [18] - Quote Bleedin' Blimey, Translates great mate. No Escaping Reason, No Denying Purpose For We Know Without Purpose We World Not Exist The Purpose Of Life Is To End
Alena Ventrallis Commando Perkone Caldari State 3	Posted - 2015.05.22 18:45:00 - [19] - Quote I honestly don't understand why people think scanners are that overpowered. You need 3 to cover a 360 circle, you all have access to dampeners if you want to be invisible to them, and the GalLogi isn't exactly a citadel of defense that cannot be broken. Of course fitting dampeners means sacrificing something else, but that is the point. You can't be tanked out AND lightning fast AND be dampened all at once. You pick and choose what you want to bring. You shouldn't have your cake and eat it too. Whirly gun make much thunder! - Victor
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 9	Posted - 2015.05.22 19:41:00 - [20] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: You shouldn't have your cake and eat it too. Now where have I heard that line before? Was it Zatara? An "Overpowered" 300HP Recon Scout :: hugs the edge of combat ... decloaks so he can scan :: :: hides ... doesn't dare shoot at anything :: :: dies instantly on detection :: :: OHK bait for other Scouts :: :: shares scans squad wide between deaths :: :: ends every match at the bottom of the leaderboard :: A "Balanced" 800HP Recon GalLogi :: volleys back-to-back, 21 dB, 200m scans, 90 degree scans :: :: paints the entire city socket, for the entire team :: :: fires another 21 dB, 200m, 90 degree scan for good measure:: :: tosses a couple core locus nades ... gets a kill :: :: restocks nades on 1/6 hives :: :: goes toe-to-toe with an 800HP Assault ... wins :: :: picks up a dampened MN Scout on passives at 19m ... instagibs it :: :: gets blapped in the back by a 3x damped, 300HP shotgunner ... spins and wins :: Field Commander: Pre-December I need one recon scout per squad. Try to keep your scans up. Try not to die. Field Commander: Post-December I need one GalLogi in the city. Keep it painted for the team. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)

Archduke Ferd1nand Nos Nothi 466	Posted - 2015.05.22 20:56:00 - [21] - Quote Or we could prevent perma scan instead of making it a mutual thing... With permascan, speed, regen, and EWAR become irrelevant. BRB, looking for socks PSN: tommygunboy2080 I shit shotgun shells and piss Remote Explosives
PLAYSTTION Corrosive Synergy 1	Posted - 2015.05.22 21:30:00 - [22] - Quote This won't work cause most of the time the perma scanner on one team is being perma scanned by the enemy already. Gassault Galogi Galsent Galmando Galscout `Open Beta Vet - 43 mil sp Director of Corrosive Synergy`
Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 908	Posted - 2015.05.24 17:19:00 - [23] - Quote Talos Vagheitan wrote: EDITED When you use a scanner, the act of scanning should create a large scan-signature, causing you to be revealed to the enemies you have scanned (based on the strength of your own scanner). It would be best if you revealed yourself at 75% strength and duration of your own scans. Running dampeners could prevent this: if you are able to dampen yourself to 75% or below your scan strength, then you are good. Particularly in the case of the gal-logi, this means choosing between exchanging some armor for damps, or willingly revealing yourself to everyone that you scan. Most recon scouts who are already running damps would basically not be effected. This would give scanners a drawback, without over-nerfing them. Right now there are no real drawbacks to scanning at all. This system would make using your scanner a more tactical choice, especially if you are alone and don't want to be discovered yourself. Great idea!
P14GU3 UNIVERSAL C.A.R.N.A.G.E 1	Posted - 2015.05.24 20:17:00 - [24] - Quote As a gallogi, I approve of this idea. I have always thought the scanner should have an increased signature. 'Sault AK.0 - Logi AK.0 - Logi GK.0 - Scout GK.0 - 'Mando MK.0 - Masshole in every sense of the word.


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