DUST Search - Nerfed: so this is how it feels.

MINA Longstrike wrote:

tal mrak-thanl wrote:

Operative 1174 Uuali wrote:

The original jump height was stupid and something only a 10 yr old would rave about just like their invincible imaginary finger pistol that kills everything in one shot, but protects them from other imaginary finger pistols.

Why height anyway? It makes more sense that you'd jump further forward.

How about a little less invective and a little more content? You think jump height was stupid? Ok, WHY? Only a ten year old would enjoy jumping? How the hell do you even qualify a statement like that? Did you conduct a controlled survey of ten year olds to determine their jump height preferences?

The advantages provided by myo stacking were plain and simple, not balanced. The person with myo's more often than not could exploit map design to do a ton of annoying and frequently unintended things. The person with myo's could use cover and more often than not negate opponents use of cover by jumping over it. The person with myo's could use a single button to 'strafe' at extremely high speeds (as myo's target jump SPEED, there is no jump height or jump distance variable it is solely derived from speed) compared to non-jump individuals who remained on the same axis while strafing. The person with myo's could melee someone once or twice after getting up close with their insane ability to traverse terrain and completely negate whatever skill an opponent might have in regards to gungame with 1200-1400 'alpha' damage from melee's.

All of these things point towards Myo's being relatively unbalanced and overpowered. You know who doesn't care about 'balance' as long as they're having fun especially if it's fun at the expense of another? Children. Children who have not yet developed the capacity for unbiased, rational thought and instead operate on instinct and emotion.

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Vesta Opalus Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 666	Posted - 2015.05.07 16:48:00 - [31] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: tal mrak-thanl wrote: Operative 1174 Uuali wrote: The original jump height was stupid and something only a 10 yr old would rave about just like their invincible imaginary finger pistol that kills everything in one shot, but protects them from other imaginary finger pistols. Why height anyway? It makes more sense that you'd jump further forward. How about a little less invective and a little more content? You think jump height was stupid? Ok, WHY? Only a ten year old would enjoy jumping? How the hell do you even qualify a statement like that? Did you conduct a controlled survey of ten year olds to determine their jump height preferences? The advantages provided by myo stacking were plain and simple, not balanced. The person with myo's more often than not could exploit map design to do a ton of annoying and frequently unintended things. The person with myo's could use cover and more often than not negate opponents use of cover by jumping over it. The person with myo's could use a single button to 'strafe' at extremely high speeds (as myo's target jump SPEED, there is no jump height or jump distance variable it is solely derived from speed) compared to non-jump individuals who remained on the same axis while strafing. The person with myo's could melee someone once or twice after getting up close with their insane ability to traverse terrain and completely negate whatever skill an opponent might have in regards to gungame with 1200-1400 'alpha' damage from melee's. All of these things point towards Myo's being relatively unbalanced and overpowered. You know who doesn't care about 'balance' as long as they're having fun especially if it's fun at the expense of another? Children. Children who have not yet developed the capacity for unbiased, rational thought and instead operate on instinct and emotion. Your last paragraph would be more relevant if 80% of American adults didnt have the same attributes.
tal mrak-thanl Corrosive Synergy Rise Of Legion. 1013	Posted - 2015.05.07 16:48:00 - [32] - Quote I think you are dramatically exaggerating the effectiveness of myos, and completely ignoring the massive fitting drawbacks to justify your determination of imbalance. Sure, I'll acknowledge that certain parameters like jump speed (when paired with kincats) bore reconsideration, but I maintain that a jump height nerf was unnecessary. Whose children have fun at the expense of others? Not mine. "That OB was like a wet fart" - Eros Adonai mini flux 2015
NIETZCHES OVERMAN Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 122	Posted - 2015.05.07 16:53:00 - [33] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Banjo Robertson wrote: tal mrak-thanl wrote: Then the original design intent was short sighted. The warlords 1.0 jump height was perfect, and never posed any threat as a game breaker. When I put on a 4 myo fit to get uplinks in strategic places, I knew I was going to lose a very expensive suit the moment someone fired at me. The fragility of a jump fit was more than enough of a drawback to limit their usage. More downside to this "fix": engaging blaster HAVs with a PLC just got 5X harder, no more awesome plc vids from beast or Kirk, rooftop camping just became a thing again... with minmitar assault getting recent buffs before the myo, and them being unfairly able to equip 4 or 5 myo's in addition to caldari suits being able to equip 4 or 5, there was half the damn suits being at a disadvantage. Now having said that, I think 3 should be the cap! but I also think the current jump height of 3 should be the old jump height of 5, just sayin, it should be a level playing field for all suits to jump high, and really jump high! That is a much better way to think about it, meaning, we set a new design intent, and then we work with that. I find jump suits easy to kill.
NIETZCHES OVERMAN Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 122	Posted - 2015.05.07 16:56:00 - [34] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Onesimus Tarsus wrote: You can feel this game wobbling on its axis like a dented top. boom tiss Ratt, we need an event aimed at recruiting new players....
Onesimus Tarsus is-a-Corporation 3406	Posted - 2015.05.07 17:13:00 - [35] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Onesimus Tarsus wrote: You can feel this game wobbling on its axis like a dented top. boom tiss That must be Bjorkenese for "ain't that the truth". .emag nug ym tpecxe gnihtyreve sexif gnikamhctam RDK
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 2987	Posted - 2015.05.07 17:17:00 - [36] - Quote Vesta Opalus wrote: Your last paragraph would be more relevant if 80% of American adults didnt have the same attributes. No, it's still relevant. There are a surprising amount of people the world over who never had to grow up, or had to learn to think like an adult. tal mrak-thanl wrote: I think you are dramatically exaggerating the effectiveness of myos, and completely ignoring the massive fitting drawbacks to justify your determination of imbalance. Sure, I'll acknowledge that certain parameters like jump speed (when paired with kincats) bore reconsideration, but I maintain that a jump height nerf was unnecessary. Whose children have fun at the expense of others? Not mine. Yeah, 50cpu & 3 pg per module, that's absolutely massive fitting drawbacks. And they cant nerf jump speed without nerfing jump height, jump speed is the only variable - there is no jump height variable. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Vesta Opalus Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 670	Posted - 2015.05.07 17:39:00 - [37] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: Vesta Opalus wrote: Your last paragraph would be more relevant if 80% of American adults didnt have the same attributes. No, it's still relevant. There are a surprising amount of people the world over who never had to grow up, or had to learn to think like an adult. Thats the point, youre insulting children who dont know better and have the excuse of their age because adults are cunts. Think of the children!
Supernus Gigas The Cooked Goose Coalition 1255	Posted - 2015.05.07 17:50:00 - [38] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: Vesta Opalus wrote: Your last paragraph would be more relevant if 80% of American adults didnt have the same attributes. No, it's still relevant. There are a surprising amount of people the world over who never had to grow up, or had to learn to think like an adult. tal mrak-thanl wrote: I think you are dramatically exaggerating the effectiveness of myos, and completely ignoring the massive fitting drawbacks to justify your determination of imbalance. Sure, I'll acknowledge that certain parameters like jump speed (when paired with kincats) bore reconsideration, but I maintain that a jump height nerf was unnecessary. Whose children have fun at the expense of others? Not mine. Yeah, 50cpu & 3 pg per module, that's absolutely massive fitting drawbacks. And they cant nerf jump speed without nerfing jump height, jump speed is the only variable - there is no jump height variable. Okay, hold on there MINA "No Fun Allowed" Longstrike. There are drawbacks, being that the suits that can take advantage of MyoStims the most are those with 4 and 5 high slots, which are shield based suits. That meaning, that they have to sacrifice a significant amount of their defense to jump really high. Oh and this whole, "If you don't agree with me then you're a child" is a bit ridiculous and childish in and of itself. *FIRE UP THE HEAVY MEAT GRINDER! WE'RE HAVING CLONE BURGERS TONIGHT, BOYS!*
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 2990	Posted - 2015.05.07 17:56:00 - [39] - Quote Supernus Gigas wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: Vesta Opalus wrote: Your last paragraph would be more relevant if 80% of American adults didnt have the same attributes. No, it's still relevant. There are a surprising amount of people the world over who never had to grow up, or had to learn to think like an adult. tal mrak-thanl wrote: I think you are dramatically exaggerating the effectiveness of myos, and completely ignoring the massive fitting drawbacks to justify your determination of imbalance. Sure, I'll acknowledge that certain parameters like jump speed (when paired with kincats) bore reconsideration, but I maintain that a jump height nerf was unnecessary. Whose children have fun at the expense of others? Not mine. Yeah, 50cpu & 3 pg per module, that's absolutely massive fitting drawbacks. And they cant nerf jump speed without nerfing jump height, jump speed is the only variable - there is no jump height variable. Okay, hold on there MINA "No Fun Allowed" Longstrike. There are drawbacks, being that the suits that can take advantage of MyoStims the most are those with 4 and 5 high slots, which are shield based suits. That meaning, that they have to sacrifice a significant amount of their defense to jump really high. Oh and this whole, "If you don't agree with me then you're a child" is a bit ridiculous and childish in and of itself. But they don't have to sacrifice ** because armor plates are wildly better than shield extenders. Two plates and a rep, you have the same amount of HP, it just comes back a tiny bit slower. The only 'trade' is not stacking damage mods. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian.** I have a few alts.
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 9910	Posted - 2015.05.07 17:59:00 - [40] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: But they don't have to sacrifice **** because armor plates are wildly better than shield extenders. Two plates and a rep, you have the same amount of HP, it just comes back a tiny bit slower. The only 'trade' is not stacking damage mods. Add to that the more tactical advantage of being on the high ground while in flight, being able to bypass cover, and escape quickly when outnumbered... @Ripley_Riley "Ripley > Soraya" - Arkena Wyrnspire

tal mrak-thanl Corrosive Synergy Rise Of Legion. 1021	Posted - 2015.05.07 18:10:00 - [41] - Quote Plates significantly diminish the mobility of a jump fit, and sheild suits have low native armor values. Additionally, plugging plates means no kincats, more so for caldari, which also diminishes the mobility of a jump fit. You can't tank plates and accomplish the majestic feats of evasion that you claim to be so detrimental. Look, I'm glad you are contributing to this discussion, but the thing that made me upset in the first place was the finality and suddenness of the nerf. This discussion should have taken place before jump height got trashed. "That OB was like a wet fart" - Eros Adonai mini flux 2015
huopiang Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 3	Posted - 2015.05.07 23:04:00 - [42] - Quote I tought super mario 514 was pretty fun. I don't think it should have been nerfed
tal mrak-thanl Corrosive Synergy Rise Of Legion. 1030	Posted - 2015.05.08 00:47:00 - [43] - Quote Well, once the cryhards realize that people can still jump with splash weapons, myos will prolly get nerfed even harder. It was fun while it lasted, I guess. GG. "That OB was like a wet fart" - Eros Adonai mini flux 2015
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 1998	Posted - 2015.05.08 06:33:00 - [44] - Quote tal mrak-thanl wrote: The warlords jump height was the coolest thing to happen since I reg'd. The change in map dynamics and added strategical positioning was just sublime. I never got the hang of using myos in combat to jump over people and fire down, that simply isn't my playstyle as a point defender and blockade breaker. I used myos to get above and behind the enemy to deploy uplinks. Maps like the lag facility, or the train depot will never be the same now. This "fix" is particularly disappointing for the lack of discussion that preceded it. The patch notes make claims about clearly intended goals for the myos finally being met, but I have a clear recollection of rattati, and an overwhelming majority of the player base, being extremely pleased with jump height. Oh well. What really led to this decision to nerf jump height? Was it the smattering of cryhards on the forums complaining about aiming? If so, I guess we can all look forward to a significant ScR nerf in the next hotfix. On what basis are you claiming that you are speaking for the majority? Looking at both sides of the coin. Even Aurum one.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 8448	Posted - 2015.05.08 07:57:00 - [45] - Quote I've found the playerbase to be sharply polarized, both enthusiastic about mylolflybrils or angry and viviciously opposed. And it's about even. There's no clear majority at all. There's never enough sh**posting going on, so let's add a few more teaspoons of the guy posting after me to the recipie!
nelo kazuma THE LAST H0PE. RUST415 161	Posted - 2015.05.08 08:19:00 - [46] - Quote Banjo Robertson wrote: tal mrak-thanl wrote: Then the original design intent was short sighted. The warlords 1.0 jump height was perfect, and never posed any threat as a game breaker. When I put on a 4 myo fit to get uplinks in strategic places, I knew I was going to lose a very expensive suit the moment someone fired at me. The fragility of a jump fit was more than enough of a drawback to limit their usage. More downside to this "fix": engaging blaster HAVs with a PLC just got 5X harder, no more awesome plc vids from beast or Kirk, rooftop camping just became a thing again... with minmitar assault getting recent buffs before the myo, and them being unfairly able to equip 4 or 5 myo's in addition to caldari suits being able to equip 4 or 5, there was half the damn suits being at a disadvantage. Now having said that, I think 3 should be the cap! but I also think the current jump height of 3 should be the old jump height of 5, just sayin, it should be a level playing field for all suits to jump high, and really jump high! Honestly the reason y shield characters needed this was because armor based characters already have waaaayy to much in their favor jump height offered us mobility if armor characters can do everything better as is and have this as well makes shields obsolete. Armor characters can easily stack more hp they can have a rep tool on them. constant reps with no damage threshold like shields do or delay with armor reps. They can speed buff higher and have more hp they can stack as many damage mods even if I went all damage mods shields weaps instantly crush us its never in favor oh shields this was our benifit and due to armor majority complaining we get this nerfed and I know shields will neeeeeever be buffed. Ohh n last thing fitting costs oh shields is way more than armor so its hard to find good fit. Main reason for this nerf is people were abusing with explosive weaps now we losing one of our best advantages
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 8449	Posted - 2015.05.08 09:06:00 - [47] - Quote Most of your arguments are falling flat. The only viable spped fit for armor assaults is the glass cannon. You sacrifice defenses for speed. Shields can rock a rack of extenders and rechargers, drop two kincats and if they feel like round out with a regulator or another kincat. Theonly mass advantage of myofibs is playing human bombardier when fighting, utilizing AOE weapons accurately from midair while bugging out over obstacles if someone lands a shot. Did I have a problem with myofibs? Nope. But they were broken from the outset, the stacking penalties which were intended to work did not work. It was going to get nerfed one way or another. We all knew this. So why are you up in arms? By the way, when presenting your arguments, most people can see when your presented argume t is based on personal bias. Hiding it behind claims of "it works this way" usually makes it more obvious. You'll get a lot more respect if you present your opinions and observations as such rather than claiming they are facts. Most of us arw well aware of how the game works. There's never enough sh**posting going on, so let's add a few more teaspoons of the guy posting after me to the recipie!
D3LTA iKidd'YuNOT D3ATH CARD RUST415 2	Posted - 2015.05.11 16:36:00 - [48] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Most of your arguments are falling flat. The only viable spped fit for armor assaults is the glass cannon. You sacrifice defenses for speed. Shields can rock a rack of extenders and rechargers, drop two kincats and if they feel like round out with a regulator or another kincat. Theonly mass advantage of myofibs is playing human bombardier when fighting, utilizing AOE weapons accurately from midair while bugging out over obstacles if someone lands a shot. Did I have a problem with myofibs? Nope. But they were broken from the outset, the stacking penalties which were intended to work did not work. It was going to get nerfed one way or another. We all knew this. So why are you up in arms? By the way, when presenting your arguments, most people can see when your presented argume t is based on personal bias. Hiding it behind claims of "it works this way" usually makes it more obvious. You'll get a lot more respect if you present your opinions and observations as such rather than claiming they are facts. Most of us arw well aware of how the game works. So you are knocking him for not saying its his opinion before posting after first stating your own opinion (without a psa)? You sir are worse than the gramar police... 1. Glass Cannon is'nt the only viable speed tanked armor suit. We play in a wildly customizable game where there can and are multiple fits that can be successfuklly used based upon one's personal playstyle. 2. You can't fit all that on a Shield suit. the PG for Extenders and Kincats are too high to fit them all. 3. You can still play human bombadier with 3 myo's. 4. You obviously have a problem with them otherwise you wouldn't be on this post. (PSA~ this is my opinion) {<~~ just for you } ~~Unfortunately at the moment Armor is more viable than Shields. You can run an armor fit without shield mods but the same can't be said about shields without some armor mods. You can also make an armor suit faster than a shield suit and have more space to tank shields or damage mods giving up less tank for it. More mobility is one of the main selling points for shield tanking and higher jumping although at a lower tank was an attractive option. More so from a defensive and tactical standpoint than an offensive one.
LOL KILLZ LulKlz 94	Posted - 2015.05.11 17:01:00 - [49] - Quote I'm of the mind set that even if it was not intended to be this way they should have kept it as such. The majority of the player base didn't mind it so much. Hell neither did I. Some people just ***** way too much....(cough)ScR nerf CEO of LulKlz/ chat channel LulKlz, code 0000 <--- numbers
Reign Omega T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K 1503	Posted - 2015.05.11 17:04:00 - [50] - Quote Original title should be edited to "Fixed: this is how it feels". Stupid arse Halo jumps with plc and shxt. (Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.pâ+n+ín+ƒ. LASERS BTCH!!!!!! The Incursions are back... and they're golden baby!

True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 18933	Posted - 2015.05.11 21:43:00 - [51] - Quote tal mrak-thanl wrote: Then the original design intent was short sighted. The warlords 1.0 jump height was perfect, and never posed any threat as a game breaker. When I put on a 4 myo fit to get uplinks in strategic places, I knew I was going to lose a very expensive suit the moment someone fired at me. The fragility of a jump fit was more than enough of a drawback to limit their usage. More downside to this "fix": engaging blaster HAVs with a PLC just got 5X harder, no more awesome plc vids from beast or Kirk, rooftop camping just became a thing again... Kirk always used if I am not mistaken the PLC on a Commando or Rattati's. In both cases he did not engage the vehicles by jumping around them like a lune and I'm also pretty sure neither fit made use of more that 1 Myofibral if one at all. "That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even death may die."
tal mrak-thanl Corrosive Synergy Rise Of Legion. 1079	Posted - 2015.05.11 22:36:00 - [52] - Quote True Adamance wrote: tal mrak-thanl wrote: Then the original design intent was short sighted. The warlords 1.0 jump height was perfect, and never posed any threat as a game breaker. When I put on a 4 myo fit to get uplinks in strategic places, I knew I was going to lose a very expensive suit the moment someone fired at me. The fragility of a jump fit was more than enough of a drawback to limit their usage. More downside to this "fix": engaging blaster HAVs with a PLC just got 5X harder, no more awesome plc vids from beast or Kirk, rooftop camping just became a thing again... Kirk always used if I am not mistaken the PLC on a Commando or Rattati's. In both cases he did not engage the vehicles by jumping around them like a lune and I'm also pretty sure neither fit made use of more that 1 Myofibral if one at all. You are right, it was YJR I was thinking of. Subscribed to waaay too many Dust channels. "That OB was like a wet fart" - Eros Adonai mini flux 2015
Second Cerberus Tested In Production 174	Posted - 2015.05.11 22:56:00 - [53] - Quote I'm going to date myself, but the Myo / MD fit reminded me of some epic Quake III games back in the day. I understand why people thought that play style was fun, however it was also extremely unbalanced for the maps, weapons and roles in DUST. If the game is designed around that type of mobility including weapon AOE, hit detection, turning speed, controls and vertical design then you get something fun. DUST has none of that so you get an imbalance between the Myo play style and the weapon AOE, hit detection, turning speed, controls and vertical design. Based on the vehement support or opposition to stacked myo's I would say the imbalance was significant. Ever wonder why you don't see titanfall type movement in a game like gears of war? You would get what we had with the myo / MD fits. "I don't always test my code, but when I do, I do it in production." - *CCP*
tal mrak-thanl Corrosive Synergy Rise Of Legion. 1079	Posted - 2015.05.11 23:57:00 - [54] - Quote Yeah, I miss jumping, but as long as the mechanic isn't available to all races, it's not really fair. Jumpacks 2015. "That OB was like a wet fart" - Eros Adonai mini flux 2015
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 5911	Posted - 2015.05.12 00:11:00 - [55] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Banjo Robertson wrote: tal mrak-thanl wrote: Then the original design intent was short sighted. The warlords 1.0 jump height was perfect, and never posed any threat as a game breaker. When I put on a 4 myo fit to get uplinks in strategic places, I knew I was going to lose a very expensive suit the moment someone fired at me. The fragility of a jump fit was more than enough of a drawback to limit their usage. More downside to this "fix": engaging blaster HAVs with a PLC just got 5X harder, no more awesome plc vids from beast or Kirk, rooftop camping just became a thing again... with minmitar assault getting recent buffs before the myo, and them being unfairly able to equip 4 or 5 myo's in addition to caldari suits being able to equip 4 or 5, there was half the damn suits being at a disadvantage. Now having said that, I think 3 should be the cap! but I also think the current jump height of 3 should be the old jump height of 5, just sayin, it should be a level playing field for all suits to jump high, and really jump high! That is a much better way to think about it, meaning, we set a new design intent, and then we work with that. All you had to do was put in a penalty to stamina on jump. Then we could have had large jumps without repeated hop-splash abuse. Instead, now we have this. And people are sad. Usually banned for being too awesome.
tal mrak-thanl Corrosive Synergy Rise Of Legion. 1079	Posted - 2015.05.12 00:16:00 - [56] - Quote I agree, there were a dozen ways we could have compromised. I guess the QQ about jumping was a lot more prevant than I ever thought. At least we can still jump a little. "That OB was like a wet fart" - Eros Adonai mini flux 2015


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