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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 8 post(s) |
Vesta Opalus
T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K
559
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Posted - 2015.03.26 17:16:00 -
[1] - Quote
Any data mining/graphs/etc on how the ASCR is doing devs/cpm? Or is it still underperforming as I suspect (because damage was never really its problem)? |
Vesta Opalus
T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K
566
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Posted - 2015.03.28 16:42:00 -
[2] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:o_O
Buff TAR and nerf SCR? Really?
That seems pretty odd.
The TAR has alot of kick compared to the SCR and suffers from alot of damage falloff due to its range which makes it perform badly as a long range tactical gun, compared to the scrambler its ****. And everyone who's read any of my posts knows what I think about the tac scrambler. |
Vesta Opalus
T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K
570
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Posted - 2015.03.29 18:45:00 -
[3] - Quote
Alena Ventrallis wrote:Darth-Carbonite GIO wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Simply what happened was that the Scrambler was OP, but few were using it so either it was hard to use or only paying off for a few to use.
Now, what is happening is that since I said that, a flood of player have migrated to the arguably best weapon, without it diminishing the K/S, even to the point that the K/S is going up.
That tells me that its not that hard to use, OP and needs a tweak.
I would welcome players going to TAC AR and the grand design goal is to get these rifles to the point that you will have a preferrred a weapon but switch to other weapons to accommodate tactical situations.
The weapon should not be a "forced" choice, because it is much better than the others, so using them is a handicap. Thank you for continuing the dialogue. Do you have any thoughts or data about why people may have moved to it? The scrambler itself received no buffs during that time period. Perhaps it was due to a nerf to some other popular weapon? I want the scrambler in a good place, so I truly hope that we as a community can continue to provide constructive feedback. Also, while I think this thread contains by and large rational people, please ignore the trolls, Rattati o7 Quite honestly, it seems like people read his comment about how efficient it was, said "Oh, I want in on that!" and migrated to it. Honestly, I believe the problem is less about the ScR being OP and more about it's direct competition, the TAR, being UP for so long. What we need to do is analyze how the TAR behaves compared to the ScR and then proceed to buff the TAR. The ScR hasn't changed in basic function save for several nerfs in months. I doubt it magically became OP when all it's had since Rattati came along is nerfs. So what we need to do is buff the TAR, which has been needing love for some time now.
Well personally the scrambler was my favorite weapon for a while, but I eventually started using other guns. When I read Rattati's comments I started using the scrambler rifle again just to pump up the gun's usage data and efficiency data to force action.
The thing is overpowered, and it has nothing to do with the TAR's performance. Scrambler absolutely devastates sheild or low hp tanked suits and its performance over time or against armor tanked suits isnt bad enough to justify its dominant killing power. It needs to be rebalanced to bring it into line with other rifle's performance (which for me generally means making it slow enough in terms of TTK that someone can actually react to being hit by it before losing 80% of their health). |
Vesta Opalus
T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K
570
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Posted - 2015.03.29 18:58:00 -
[4] - Quote
Alena Ventrallis wrote:If anyhting, I'd just do away with the charge shot. That seems to be what Rattati doesn't like: charge shot to kill or severely wound, then a few shots to finish the job.
Maybe... profile might also be an issue, its odd that we have the highest damage profile available in the game being used against the lowest EHP form of tanking, just screams for abuse.
Anything would help though. |
Vesta Opalus
T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K
570
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Posted - 2015.03.29 19:03:00 -
[5] - Quote
Varoth Drac wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:quite perfectly actually. Now to buff Burst AR and TACAR more, and nerf scrambler a bit. More numbers later. Whilst I don't doubt your data, should we be thinking about balance priorities? How's the balance for other weapons? I don't hear much complaining about rifle balance, it feels pretty good to me. How about other weapons? Anything greatly underperforming? Breach shotguns come to mind, that the community have frequently mentioned as being poor. How about racial balance within suit type? For example, are all four assault suits performing roughly equally? Maybe I'm unfairly assuming you are focussing too much on rifles.
Breach Shotguns, MagSec SMG, non-breach scrambler pistols, all this stuff needs to be looked at, but they shouldnt take priority over fixing stuff that is overpowered.
Underpowered weapons are a choice you can make while you are screwing around or experimenting with stuff, and you can unmake that choice any time and use one of the better weapons. Meanwhile the scrambler rifle is overpowered, which means if someone chooses to abuse it, they can inflict the imbalance on lots of other people. In terms of priority I think overpowered weapons (i.e. the tac scrambler) should definitely #1.
However, overall the absolute worst imbalance in the game right now is invincible rep/hardener madrugers, so I'd be 100% fine with rebalancing the scrambler later if it means getting that **** fixed sooner, but thats another thread. |
Vesta Opalus
T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K
571
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Posted - 2015.03.29 19:43:00 -
[6] - Quote
Alena Ventrallis wrote:Vesta Opalus wrote:Alena Ventrallis wrote:If anyhting, I'd just do away with the charge shot. That seems to be what Rattati doesn't like: charge shot to kill or severely wound, then a few shots to finish the job. Maybe... profile might also be an issue, its odd that we have the highest damage profile available in the game being used against the lowest EHP form of tanking, just screams for abuse. Anything would help though. Here's the thing though; ScR has a heat mechanic that severely limits its ability to engage anything reasonably tanked. If we are going to talk about ehp, the shotgun does a much more efficient job of destroying low ehp suits. Consider that shotguns hold the no. 2 spot for PC kills while ScR isn't even in the top 10. There is much more going on here than is seen. If the ScR was truly this OP, wouldn't more people be using it? And also, the ScR hasn't been touched except for nerfs in the last several months. It's seen a ROF reduction, a mag size reduction, and a max carried reduction. In light of this, somehow it became OP despite receiving no buffs? That makes no sense. This is why I asked Rattati to share the data on it and the other rifles in order for us to determine what is really going on.
Yes but the shotgun does its job at 5-10 meters and has very limited and clunky fire rate. The scrambler has something like 80 meter range (I dont recall the exact ranges, wish those showed up somewhere in game!) where its still 100% effective.
And in terms of danger for say, a shotgunner vs. a scrambler user, even at close range... the scrambler user doesnt need to worry about their relative speed and can tank for HP, since their weapon has much better range. On the other hand a shotgunner is required to either run multiple kincats or run a scout suit, so their EHP will be very low in comparison, in addition they MUST close distance, where a scrambler rifle user has the luxury of engaging at any effective rifle range (in other words - they will have decisive, crippling, shotgun-like damage regardless of range unless fighting against a laser rifle or sniper rifle or forge gunner at very long ranges).
Edit: In addition its worth noting that the scrambler rifle is the second best rifle in PC even though PC framerate lag dramatically favors full auto assault/hmg weapons or big chunky hard hitters like the shotgun. If the framerate issues were fixed, you have to wonder what the situation would be in terms of rifle effectiveness when the tac scrambler is already one of only 4 of the rifles (and the ONLY non full auto rifle) that can really compete in that environment. |
Vesta Opalus
T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K
571
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Posted - 2015.03.29 20:11:00 -
[7] - Quote
Alena Ventrallis wrote:Vesta Opalus wrote:
Yes but the shotgun does its job at 5-10 meters and has very limited and clunky fire rate. The scrambler has something like 80 meter range (I dont recall the exact ranges, wish those showed up somewhere in game!) where its still 100% effective.
And in terms of danger for say, a shotgunner vs. a scrambler user, even at close range... the scrambler user doesnt need to worry about their relative speed and can tank for HP, since their weapon has much better range. On the other hand a shotgunner is required to either run multiple kincats or run a scout suit, so their EHP will be very low in comparison, in addition they MUST close distance, where a scrambler rifle user has the luxury of engaging at any effective rifle range (in other words - they will have decisive, crippling, shotgun-like damage regardless of range unless fighting against a laser rifle or sniper rifle or forge gunner at very long ranges).
Edit: In addition its worth noting that the scrambler rifle is the second best rifle in PC even though PC framerate lag dramatically favors full auto assault/hmg weapons or big chunky hard hitters like the shotgun. If the framerate issues were fixed, you have to wonder what the situation would be in terms of rifle effectiveness when the tac scrambler is already one of only 4 of the rifles (and the ONLY non full auto rifle) that can really compete in that environment.
If the shotgun is so clunky, why does it have such an incredibly larger presence in PC? Despite these disadvantages like range, it is clearly the far more popular choice. Look at what suits the ScR is used on. Now ignore it being used on AmAssault. There are less than 400 kills with the ScR on a non AmAssault suit. That is telling. Meanwhile, the best rifle beats it out by a solid 6 places with 14349 kills vs ScR at 5184 kills. That's nearly 3x more kills. Is the ACR incredibly OP? Should we nerf it hard? The point is we don't have all the data we need to back up these claims. We have Rattati's word, and that's it. I would like to see the data and have him help me understand why he's interpreting it the way he is. Because again, the ScR hasn't gotten better in several months. If anything, it has had several nerfs. So why is it now a problem? Why wasn't it a problem then? What changed? We need more data than what we have right now to find a solid answer. I don't want the ScR to become useless like the flaylock was, or like the TAR was. We need to get all the cards on the table so we can figure out a decent solution.
By clunky I mean when you fire a shot you have to wait a second or so for your second shot. The scrambler does not have this limitation, as far as I can tell when you click the shoot button that thing shoots right up until it overheats.
And again PC strongly favors full auto weaponry (which is why the Assault Combat Rifle is much more effective and much more used in PC than the tac scrambler), but the tac scrambler still beats out the assault rail rifle, assault scrambler, and assault plasma rifle. If the framerate issues in PC were not there it would be a much different story.
Also re: data, those numbers are just kills made in PC and what suit the rifle/kill was made on. It doesnt tell us how good each weapon is in relative terms. So for example: if those 5184 scrambler kills were made by 2000 spawns worth of clones, and the 14349 acr kills were made by 10000 spawns worth of clones, the scrambler would still be the better weapon despite the disparity in raw quantity because per clone the scrambler rifle is performing better. So yeah I agree we would need more data for our plebian general forum discussions to really figure things out, but I dont think Rattati is inclined to just make **** up to randomly nerf something (but I'd still love to see that data  ). |
Vesta Opalus
T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K
573
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Posted - 2015.03.30 03:58:00 -
[8] - Quote
Darth-Carbonite GIO wrote:First point: "Scrambler absolutely devastates sheild" I believe in that way it is working as intended. As an Amarr laser weapon, shields are where it is supposed to shine. Second point: "or low hp tanked suits" It is my opinion that by the very definition of "Low HP" you should expect to have a reduced survive-ability under direct fire. Vesta Opalus wrote:and its performance over time or against armor tanked suits isnt bad enough to justify its dominant killing power. It needs to be rebalanced to bring it into line with other rifle's performance (which for me generally means making it slow enough in terms of TTK that someone can actually react to being hit by it before losing 80% of their health To me, it seems like your gripe stems from being dispatched too quickly for your liking. If that is true, my experience would lead me to think that it is the charge shot in particular that could be causing the trouble.
Shield tanking is already bad enough without having a weapon that can burst down any amount of shields in under a second, low HP suits, sure I dont expect to live very long under fire, so whatever. I dunno, maybe you're right, maybe the scrambler is fine, but everything I've seen and done with the weapon disagrees with you, and apparently so does the data Rattati is looking at.
Darth-Carbonite GIO wrote:Now, looking at the weapon itself, the charge mechanic (coupled with the heat system) is what makes the scrambler unique.
For the record I dont think the charge shot is the problem. I think its the weapon handling + large damage per shot combined that makes this thing way too deadly. Its super accurate with very little kick, hits like a truck, and has the (I think?) second longest range in the game, its only very slightly outranged by the breach rail rifle, which has much slower delivery, lower dps, has worse fire characteristics (kick/recoil/etc) in both hipfire and ADS, and is much harder to keep on target in general.
Darth-Carbonite GIO wrote:Everyone keeps talking about how the scrambler requires skill.
I don't think it takes much more skill than any other rifle, if any.
Darth-Carbonite GIO wrote:This sadly falls in to ranting territory, and makes me sad 
Well thats just like, your opinion man. That story is just there to give you an idea of why I think this weapon is a big outlier, its in a league of its own, capable of spitting out shotgun alpha damage and then be followed up with pinpoint rifle-style shots at high ranges. Hipfire or ADS, it doesnt matter, the thing nails whatever you point it at.
Other rifles and other non-rifles arent like this, each of them has serious drawbacks, either range, dispersion, low rate of fire, etc, that limits it and makes it situational. The scrambler isnt like that, its just too good and it should be nerfed a bit to bring it in line with other rifles. |
Vesta Opalus
T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K
577
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Posted - 2015.03.30 23:03:00 -
[9] - Quote
jade gamester wrote:So a corp called carne con papas run amar assaults with visiams sometimes ARR and all there kdrs average like 10 plus yeah because that's normal...
It is normal for some people. Ive been running at or around 10 for a while regardless of the weapon Im using running a min assault speed fit. |
Vesta Opalus
T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K
577
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Posted - 2015.03.30 23:05:00 -
[10] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:Francois Sanchez wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:Francois Sanchez wrote:.
ScR has more DPS than HMG whatever crack you're smoking has to be awesome. You need to share. Pure math, multiply the damage per shot by the shots per second STD ScR : 650 STD HMG : 640 ADV ScR : 682.5 ADV HMG : 672 PRO ScR : 715 PRO HMG : 704 Learn how to do a multiplication before insulting people next time where's the fun in that?
And thats without damage mods, considering its normal for most armor tank suits to run two or three damage mods in their highs the gap increases significantly over heavies that generally have ~1 or 2 available. |
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Vesta Opalus
T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K
577
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Posted - 2015.03.30 23:14:00 -
[11] - Quote
This video highlights how good the weapon is against militia and frontline suits, but I dont see much to it other than that.
The enemy team was clearly terrible. |
Vesta Opalus
T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K
577
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Posted - 2015.03.31 15:15:00 -
[12] - Quote
ReGnYuM wrote:Anyway, to stay on topic.
Actually the topic was assault scrambler performance post-buff, but that ship has sailed  |
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