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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 8 post(s) |
Darth-Carbonite GIO
Random Gunz Rise Of Legion.
1832
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Posted - 2015.03.28 17:15:00 -
[1] - Quote
Quote:there is nothing wrong with the scrambler rifle right now, it is one of the most efficient rifles, even a tad OP. The reason I don't intend to nerf them is that they are specialty weapons and not the cause of the majority of kills. The ASCR I have been playing with to understand its flaws, and I don't get why its not used, it destroys calscouts with hipfire, it has no recoil, the best scope, the most ammo and clipsize, and heat is not really a problem. But until players start using it, we need to make it incrementally better.
Alena Ventrallis wrote:In what way has the bolded sentence changed? Is it now higher? Has its usage in PC shot up?
I would quite like to know the answer to this as well. What in the world happened to make you change your mind in such a short time?
Make my Scrambler Pink!
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Darth-Carbonite GIO
Random Gunz Rise Of Legion.
1834
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Posted - 2015.03.28 21:47:00 -
[2] - Quote
Again, this feels like it's coming out of nowhere.
The Scrambler has been adjusted quite a bit during the new development cycle. Reduced damage, reduced RoF, reduced clip size. What next?
But more importantly than what you intend to do is why you intend to do it. As most of us in this thread have expressed confusion over this rapid shift in mentality, I think it'd be great if you could share more of your thought process, Rattati.
I know I'm at least a little biased on this subject. It would be hard not to be influenced by the weapon I have dedicated so much time to, but I hope you'll believe me when I say that all I want is the chance to provide constructive feedback and thoughts from my perspective. No rage or rants, just a dialogue.
Make my Scrambler Pink!
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Darth-Carbonite GIO
Random Gunz Rise Of Legion.
1835
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Posted - 2015.03.29 16:44:00 -
[3] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Simply what happened was that the Scrambler was OP, but few were using it so either it was hard to use or only paying off for a few to use.
Now, what is happening is that since I said that, a flood of player have migrated to the arguably best weapon, without it diminishing the K/S, even to the point that the K/S is going up.
That tells me that its not that hard to use, OP and needs a tweak.
I would welcome players going to TAC AR and the grand design goal is to get these rifles to the point that you will have a preferrred a weapon but switch to other weapons to accommodate tactical situations.
The weapon should not be a "forced" choice, because it is much better than the others, so using them is a handicap.
Thank you for continuing the dialogue. Do you have any thoughts or data about why people may have moved to it? The scrambler itself received no buffs during that time period. Perhaps it was due to a nerf to some other popular weapon?
I want the scrambler in a good place, so I truly hope that we as a community can continue to provide constructive feedback. Also, while I think this thread contains by and large rational people, please ignore the trolls, Rattati o7
Make my Scrambler Pink!
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Darth-Carbonite GIO
Random Gunz Rise Of Legion.
1838
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Posted - 2015.03.30 03:31:00 -
[4] - Quote
Vesta Opalus wrote:The thing is overpowered, and it has nothing to do with the TAR's performance. Scrambler absolutely devastates sheild or low hp tanked suits
First point: "Scrambler absolutely devastates sheild" I believe in that way it is working as intended. As an Amarr laser weapon, shields are where it is supposed to shine.
Second point: "or low hp tanked suits" It is my opinion that by the very definition of "Low HP" you should expect to have a reduced survive-ability under direct fire.
Vesta Opalus wrote:and its performance over time or against armor tanked suits isnt bad enough to justify its dominant killing power. It needs to be rebalanced to bring it into line with other rifle's performance (which for me generally means making it slow enough in terms of TTK that someone can actually react to being hit by it before losing 80% of their health
To me, it seems like your gripe stems from being dispatched too quickly for your liking. If that is true, my experience would lead me to think that it is the charge shot in particular that could be causing the trouble.
The scrambler is an alpha weapon, dealing high damage in short bursts. If we combine alpha damage with a charge multiplier, then factor in your low HP shield suit, I can fully understand how a scrambler would cause you irritation.
I sympathize. Now, looking at the weapon itself, the charge mechanic (coupled with the heat system) is what makes the scrambler unique. Therefore, I would hate to see the charge option removed entirely as some have proposed. This would result in the scrambler being being much closer to any other rifle rather than having it's own place on the battlefield as all weapons should.
My opinion: lower single shot damage by a reasonable amount, and increase charge shot damage.
Everyone keeps talking about how the scrambler requires skill. I agree, but if what Rattati says is true (and I don't doubt him) then it appears that an increasing amount of presumably less-skilled people are using it to great effect. To rectify this, reduce the effectiveness of the fast firing single shot. Do not do away with it entirely, simply make it less rewarding for those who use the weapon in ranges that it might not be ideally suited for. Scramblers should be able to defend themselves up close, but that's not what the Amarr mentality dictates the weapon should be used for.
By increasing charge shot damage, it would become what most players belive it to be: A long range, high damage weapon that promotes timing and placement above close range trigger fingers.
Vesta Opalus wrote:So I switch to the scrambler rifle because Im ****** if Im going to let these losers win because they want to lean on their little crutch guns. Its just bullshit and it needs to be fixed.
This sadly falls in to ranting territory, and makes me sad
Now:
CCP Rattati wrote:Now to buff Burst AR and TACAR more
Buff the Burst. No arguments there.
The issue that I could see happening lies with the TAC. Many people say it's fine, but again, Rattati thinks differently. Fair play, broken things must be fixed. However, as has already been pointed out, the Scrambler and the TAC are very close in their respective fields. Both high damage, anti-shield weapons.
The difference lies in their profiles, with the Scrambler having the longer range and greater shield damage, and the TAC being Mid to Long ranges with less of a draw-back versus armor.
The point is that because they are so similar, nerfing one while buffing the other could lead to abandonment of one for the other. If that were to happen, we'll simply be having this conversation again as people naturally migrate away from the scrambler.
TLDR:
Skilled Charge Shot>Rapid Single Shot
Don't Over-Nerf or Over-Buff; it'll just cause more problems down the road.
Make my Scrambler Pink!
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Darth-Carbonite GIO
Random Gunz Rise Of Legion.
1839
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Posted - 2015.03.30 05:42:00 -
[5] - Quote
Alena Ventrallis wrote:An excellent thought process.
I want this to be done in small intervals so that we don't overshoot the sweet spot. So how about reducing damage to 67.5 and increasing charge shot multiplier to 3.75. This gives the same charge shot damage with lower regular shot damage. DPS will be 675 down from 715 with this change assuming you can hit 600 RPM.
Thank you, and agreed wholeheartedly.
I like those numbers, but I'm sure Rattati has something in mind already, or at the very least will get his hamsters to work on crunching them when he can. As for me, I will do some more soul searching myself, and see if I stumble on any revelations.
Make my Scrambler Pink!
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Darth-Carbonite GIO
Random Gunz Rise Of Legion.
1840
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Posted - 2015.03.30 05:50:00 -
[6] - Quote
cray cray FISH wrote:I love the scrambler, but i do think it is too good. The problem i see with it, i can hip fire that thing way too effectively. My general play style is charge shot, 3 shot, charge shot 3 shot, however if the need arises i can spam that **** and rarely miss. I think this is the biggest difference between the TAC and the SCR, the ability to convert damage, not statistical differences.
I actually think Darth's suggestion of reduced standard shot, but improved charge could go a way to alleviating some issues with CQC spam effectiveness.
So saith the Fishiest Fish to ever Fish for Fishes. o7
Make my Scrambler Pink!
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Darth-Carbonite GIO
Random Gunz Rise Of Legion.
1842
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Posted - 2015.03.30 17:15:00 -
[7] - Quote
Kalante Schiffer wrote:I just love how all of the scrambler rifle brigade is here defending their weapon
Yes, we are, and you are part of the Assault Rifle "Brigade" correct? There's no shame in loving a particular weapon. The shame comes when you belittle others for their love and derail a positive and constructive process.
And here again:
Kalante Schiffer wrote:never telling the full story of how they can destroy shield suits in an instant. A shield suit is basically a free kill because they run little armor after their shields are destroyed.
Properly fitted shield suits will run lots of shields and low armor. The Scrambler is designed to destroy shields. I'm not sure what more can be said except that, in this respect, it's not the Scrambler that's giving you these problems. It's broken shield tanking.
To balance a weapon by judging it against a fitting style that most everybody agrees to be broken would seem to be like putting the cart before the horse. A bad idea.
Kalante Schiffer wrote:And guess what? the viziam doesnt care if it has 200 armor, 300 armor, 400 armor, 500 armor, 600 armor, 700 armor. It will eat that armor like if they were shields.
First off, the statement that the Scrambler "will eat that armor like if they were shields" is factually incorrect. The Scrambler does less against Armor and more against Shield. Once again, that is what the weapon is designed for.
However, it seems obvious that your issue once again lies with being dispatched too quickly. If that is the case, it continues to reinforce the theory that the single shot is the culprit in your rapid demise.
Again, if the weapon was operating in Mid to Long range as it should, then it would make complete sense that you would get outgunned. An armor tanked suit, slowly moving across a wide open field is just as good of a target as a shield suit it close quarters.
In conclusion then, if you are a shield tanked suit, expect to have a rough time with Amarr weapons. It's how God(CCP) designed them.
If you are having trouble with Scramblers at long range, yet again, you're in the weapon's optimal field of play.
And if you are being tormented by a Scrambler in short, CQC range, then yes; you have a legitimate grievance.
TLDR:
Long Range > CQC
Skill > Spam
Constructive Feedback > Rage
Make my Scrambler Pink!
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Darth-Carbonite GIO
Random Gunz Rise Of Legion.
1860
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Posted - 2015.03.30 20:01:00 -
[8] - Quote
I like it. You highlighted the charge shot, which is something most do not.
You also showed the hit detection issues that plague most weapons, but semi-auto weapons especially. I like how you showed issues that worked both for and against you.
Most of the enemies you faced were in Standard or Militia gear, and it really shows how effective a high alpha weapon is against low-HP suits. Big Damage > Little HP.
I'd like to see this same setup versus a squad of proto suits, just as comparison. Then again, matchmaking always seems to put me against said squads, so maybe I'm a little jealous of the caliber of your opposition
+1
Make my Scrambler Pink!
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Darth-Carbonite GIO
Random Gunz Rise Of Legion.
1861
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Posted - 2015.03.30 22:05:00 -
[9] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Watch toward the latter mid-point where I don't use charge at all on three of those dudes. It tears through them like butter, something I'm hard pressed to get my Tactical Assault Rifle to do.
This is the point I've been trying to make. At long range you're using the charge shot, and that's good. At close range you are forced to either spam, or use the high risk/high reward charge shot followed by short bursts technique.
Since we are endeavoring to reduce spam and incentivize proper positioning, it makes perfect sense to lower single shot damage and raise the charge shot effectiveness accordingly.
Instead of going in with trigger spam, this would encourage a carefully placed high damage charge shot, followed by a short burst of low damage shots to finish the engagement. Heat management would be more important, positioning would be key, and TTK may even go up from the increase in overheating that more charge shooting will bring.
Aeon Amadi wrote:it doesn't give a **** about +20/-20 when it's hammering out as much damage as it is.
I would ask that you use the Scrambler again against a suit comparable to the one you were using, and inform me if you have the same results. Maybe you will, but my experience tells me that armor suits (gallante tank+rep fit in particular) are the things that cause you the most trouble with a Scrambler.
And I'll just say it again: saying that the Scrambler is just as effective against Armor as it is Shields is factually incorrect. No attempt at an argument here, simply looking at how the game works.
Aeon Amadi wrote:I don't like it because I'm a CQC brawler.
And that's a perfectly acceptable and rational reason to not enjoy using it. It makes perfect sense that a long range weapon would not feel comfortable in the hands of a close range specialist.
Alena Ventrallis wrote:And they are militia suits. I can chew through them with a Duvolle just as easily.
This is an extremely important point to keep in mind when you are making an argument. (By you I mean everyone)
If we consider a Prototype weapon quickly dispatching Militia suits to be a problem in and of itself, then we must take a step back and think about what impact any changes will make on how that weapon works against Prototype suits and gear.
This just one reason that balancing off of information gathered in Public Matches isn't always a good idea. Pubs are great indicators, but they don't always tell the whole story. That however, is a different topic, and I won't jump down that rabbit hole any farther.
For what it's worth, I still enjoyed your video.
Make my Scrambler Pink!
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Darth-Carbonite GIO
Random Gunz Rise Of Legion.
1864
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Posted - 2015.03.31 03:32:00 -
[10] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:The weapon obviously works too well in CQC.
I see three ways
Increase heat cost, so that you have less followup shots to spam increase hip fire kick, with compounding so the 3rd shot in succession is way off Increase charge shot multiplier, decrease normal damage = preserve dps, rewarding accuracy
The third option has my vote, no surprise there.
True Adamance wrote:I'm not sure how the third option results in rewarding accuracy...
Here's my take. As it is, Scramblers do just about as good in close quarters as they do at range. If we reduce the effectiveness of the single fire spamming, and buff the charge multiplier, people will naturally begin using the weapon in the ranges it was meant for, rather than up close and personal where it will be less viable.
You will still be able to defend yourself when things go wrong, but you won't seek out those kinds of fights like you might with the current structure as you won't be doing nearly as much damage. My two cents.
CCP Rattati wrote:Increase heat cost, so that you have less followup shots to spam
Not necessarily a bad idea, but if the heat increase applies to Charge shot like it does now, increasing it will hurt those using the weapon properly just as those who are spamming.
Currently, Charge shots take a lot of heat, and you cannot fire more than 3 back-to-back. (somebody correct me if I'm wrong, can't remember exactly for some reason) Increasing heat cost across the board would only make that number go down, and give players little reason to use the Scrambler where it should be.
Conversely, increasing heat buildup only for the single shots probably would reduce spam, as you would simply be unable to fire as many rounds. My concern is that if taken to far, this heat increase would render the Scrambler unusable in self-defense ranges, much like what the Rail Rifle suffers from currently.
Again, with care, this option could work. It's just not my first choice.
CCP Rattati wrote:increase hip fire kick, with compounding so the 3rd shot in succession is way off
I'm not going to mince words on this one. No! One thousand times no!
My reasoning is simple. Kick is not an enjoyable game mechanic. At all. Rather than bring balance, I believe it just creates frustration. I think our friends over at Biomassed have shared this opinion if I recall correctly.
We could talk about the lore of laser weapons and how recoil makes no sense for them, but I think that's a roundabout way of getting to the real point. Recoil is not fun, and we can balance better.
TLDR:
Option 3 > Option 2
Recoil is evil
Make my Scrambler Pink!
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