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Aeon Amadi
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Posted - 2015.03.30 14:11:00 -
[1] - Quote
Real talk - I stopped using the Tactical Assault Rifle on my Gallente Assault because the Scrambler was better. Longer range, higher damage, charge-shot, more ammo in the magazine, faster rate of fire.... But, yanno, community still thinks the TAR is OP so, whatever.
By the way, new Evolve characters are out and Torvald is a big ol' barrel of Icelandic **** :D
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Aeon Amadi
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Posted - 2015.03.30 18:37:00 -
[2] - Quote
Made a video.
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Aeon Amadi
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Posted - 2015.03.30 21:19:00 -
[3] - Quote
Alena Ventrallis wrote:From what I see, a proto scrambler eats up starter and militia suits. No problem there, all proto weapons will do that. In addition, you were able to charge the weapon for lots of damage very quickly. So perhaps increasing the charge time would be enough?
Lol.
Watch toward the latter mid-point where I don't use charge at all on three of those dudes. It tears through them like butter, something I'm hard pressed to get my Tactical Assault Rifle to do.
No reason the Scrambler Rifle should just be better in all forms, charge shot or not. The charge shot just compounds the issues. Thing has better damage application, much longer range, and it doesn't give a **** about +20/-20 when it's hammering out as much damage as it is. This isn't even touching on the ammo conversation which effectively made the nanohives I was carrying absolutely useless. Clip size is another thing - I only ever reload because it gives me something to do while I wait for it to cool down.
The only reason I don't like this thing is because I don't have any skills in Amarr Assault (btw, this was done with a Prototype Gal Assault) which infringes a lot on my playstyle (CQC) because of overheating. This isn't to say that the thing isn't powerful as hell (I've been saying that for months now, just everyone started finally paying attention) just that I don't like it because I'm a CQC brawler.
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Aeon Amadi
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9369
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Posted - 2015.03.30 21:39:00 -
[4] - Quote
Alena Ventrallis wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Alena Ventrallis wrote:From what I see, a proto scrambler eats up starter and militia suits. No problem there, all proto weapons will do that. In addition, you were able to charge the weapon for lots of damage very quickly. So perhaps increasing the charge time would be enough? Lol. Watch toward the latter mid-point where I don't use charge at all on three of those dudes. It tears through them like butter, something I'm hard pressed to get my Tactical Assault Rifle to do. No reason the Scrambler Rifle should just be better in all forms, charge shot or not. The charge shot just compounds the issues. Thing has better damage application, much longer range, and it doesn't give a **** about +20/-20 when it's hammering out as much damage as it is. This isn't even touching on the ammo conversation which effectively made the nanohives I was carrying absolutely useless. Clip size is another thing - I only ever reload because it gives me something to do while I wait for it to cool down. The only reason I don't like this thing is because I don't have any skills in Amarr Assault (btw, this was done with a Prototype Gal Assault) which infringes a lot on my playstyle (CQC) because of overheating. This isn't to say that the thing isn't powerful as hell (I've been saying that for months now, just everyone started finally paying attention) just that I don't like it because I'm a CQC brawler. And they are .ilitia suits. I can chew through them with a Duvolle just as easily. But you have made the point the ScR users have: the heat buildup means you struggle in CQC since any missed shot cuts deeply into your total possible damage.
As a Gallente, sure.
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Aeon Amadi
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Posted - 2015.03.31 10:38:00 -
[5] - Quote
Darth-Carbonite GIO wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Watch toward the latter mid-point where I don't use charge at all on three of those dudes. It tears through them like butter, something I'm hard pressed to get my Tactical Assault Rifle to do. This is the point I've been trying to make. At long range you're using the charge shot, and that's good. At close range you are forced to either spam, or use the high risk/high reward charge shot followed by short bursts technique. Since we are endeavoring to reduce spam and incentivize proper positioning, it makes perfect sense to lower single shot damage and raise the charge shot effectiveness accordingly. Instead of going in with trigger spam, this would encourage a carefully placed high damage charge shot, followed by a short burst of low damage shots to finish the engagement. Heat management would be more important, positioning would be key, and TTK may even go up from the increase in overheating that more charge shooting will bring. Aeon Amadi wrote:it doesn't give a **** about +20/-20 when it's hammering out as much damage as it is. I would ask that you use the Scrambler again against a suit comparable to the one you were using, and inform me if you have the same results. Maybe you will, but my experience tells me that armor suits (gallante tank+rep fit in particular) are the things that cause you the most trouble with a Scrambler. And I'll just say it again: saying that the Scrambler is just as effective against Armor as it is Shields is factually incorrect. No attempt at an argument here, simply looking at how the game works. Aeon Amadi wrote:I don't like it because I'm a CQC brawler. And that's a perfectly acceptable and rational reason to not enjoy using it. It makes perfect sense that a long range weapon would not feel comfortable in the hands of a close range specialist. Alena Ventrallis wrote:And they are militia suits. I can chew through them with a Duvolle just as easily. This is an extremely important point to keep in mind when you are making an argument. (By you I mean everyone) If we consider a Prototype weapon quickly dispatching Militia suits to be a problem in and of itself, then we must take a step back and think about what impact any changes will make on how that weapon works against Prototype suits and gear. This just one reason that balancing off of information gathered in Public Matches isn't always a good idea. Pubs are great indicators, but they don't always tell the whole story. That however, is a different topic, and I won't jump down that rabbit hole any farther. For what it's worth, I still enjoyed your video.
Go ask Tidus what-ever-the-hell from OH (I think) about what its like punching through Amarr Sentinels with a Scrambler Rifle. Dude has been doing it since they came out and never seemed to have an issue with it in PC. Guy is a monster with the thing and was the exact reason I started saying the Scrambler needed to be nerfed back in 1.6/1.7 - course everyone did the exact same thing and came running in saying that I just wanted my AR to be OP or whatever.
Arguing that we should dismiss results with Militia Suits is total BS, by the way - if the thing is one-shotting suits or two shotting suits, even at a Militia level, without a headshot, it's kinda ridiculous. I don't think Sniper Rifles can even pull that off, in fact, the only weapons I can think of that that -CAN- do that are Forge Guns and Plasma Cannons.
But, you know, there's some major flaws in this argument as well because the Ion Pistol is effectively the same in functionality but no-one seems to be clamoring for reform at the fact that it overheats after a single charged shot that 9/10 will miss because it's hit detection is completely screwy - made worse by the fact that it's range is total **** and otherwise is just a useless weapon except in extreme niche cases. It's also -extremely- limited by it's range.
Scrambler Rifle is unique in it's ability. It's rewarding, sure, but it might be a bit too rewarding because it works well in almost all situations. Do you see the Tactical Assault Rifle excelling in those same situations? Hardly - it has no long range capability because of a terrible optimal range, it's close range application is limited by magazine size and fire-rate, and it's damage output isn't nearly the same as the Scrambler Rifle.
If you want the Scrambler Rifle to be balanced, quit screwing around with theories that changing the single-shot damage is going to work and make it more like the Tactical Assault Rifle. Nerf the ever living hellfire out of the magazine size, kill the charge-up, and knock off a few dozen meters off the optimal range.
Because clearly the Tactical Assault Rifle is a balanced weapon, so why shouldn't that work for the Scrambler Rifle?
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Aeon Amadi
Ahrendee Inc. Negative-Feedback
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Posted - 2015.03.31 10:48:00 -
[6] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:The weapon obviously works too well in CQC.
I see three ways
Increase heat cost, so that you have less followup shots to spam increase hip fire kick, with compounding so the 3rd shot in succession is way off Increase charge shot multiplier, decrease normal damage = preserve dps, rewarding accuracy
1) Heat Cost.
You increase Heat Cost you effectively eliminate that weapon from being used by anyone but the Amarr Assault.
If we're going that route - make the Assault Rifle do next to no damage on anything but a Gallente Assault - Combat Rifle have next to nothing in the magazine on anything but a Minmatar Assault - Rail Rifle have next to nothing in optimal range on anything but the Caldari Assault.
2) Hip fire kick
Didn't really stop anyone from using the RR in CQC and they can still kill with it once they're used to how the recoil works. Just takes a little time to adjust to and doesn't really solve much.
3) Charge Shot Multiplier and Decrease Normal Damage
Might work. That or just really irritate the ever living hell out of anyone who's on the receiving end of it as entire chunks of HP as taken away from a single shot - not unlike a sniper rifle. Kinda hard to counter that functionality whenever you're using something that has a set DPS and that's it. Why use an Assault Rifle with an un-changeable TTK when I can just use a Scrambler with a charge-shot and follow up with a few single shots?
My proposal:
Kill the magazine size, give it actual muzzle climb (it and the ASCR are the only weapons that are exempt from this), give it greater hipfire dispersion.
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Aeon Amadi
Ahrendee Inc. Negative-Feedback
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Posted - 2015.03.31 11:16:00 -
[7] - Quote
Georgia Xavier wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:The weapon obviously works too well in CQC.
I see three ways
Increase heat cost, so that you have less followup shots to spam increase hip fire kick, with compounding so the 3rd shot in succession is way off Increase charge shot multiplier, decrease normal damage = preserve dps, rewarding accuracy
1) Heat Cost. You increase Heat Cost you effectively eliminate that weapon from being used by anyone but the Amarr Assault. If we're going that route - make the Assault Rifle do next to no damage on anything but a Gallente Assault - Combat Rifle have next to nothing in the magazine on anything but a Minmatar Assault - Rail Rifle have next to nothing in optimal range on anything but the Caldari Assault. 2) Hip fire kick Didn't really stop anyone from using the RR in CQC and they can still kill with it once they're used to how the recoil works. Just takes a little time to adjust to and doesn't really solve much. 3) Charge Shot Multiplier and Decrease Normal Damage Might work. That or just really irritate the ever living hell out of anyone who's on the receiving end of it as entire chunks of HP as taken away from a single shot - not unlike a sniper rifle. Kinda hard to counter that functionality whenever you're using something that has a set DPS and that's it. Why use an Assault Rifle with an un-changeable TTK when I can just use a Scrambler with a charge-shot and follow up with a few single shots? My proposal: Kill the magazine size, give it actual muzzle climb (it and the ASCR are the only weapons that are exempt from this), give it greater hipfire dispersion. EDIT: Make it so that you have to actually aim instead of just spamming the trigger and staying on target in CQC. -Force- it to ADS and micromanage between heat and magazine capacity. I don't mind these changes gameplay wise because I always use ads anyway but lore wise it won't make sense. How can lasers produce so much recoil?
Why are rail-tech sniper rifles limited to a 400m range?
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Aeon Amadi
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Posted - 2015.03.31 16:51:00 -
[8] - Quote
Fizzer XCIV wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:CUSE TOWN333 wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:o_O
Buff TAR and nerf SCR? Really? That seems pretty odd. why does it seem odd? because every player in the game right now knows the Tac Ar is the better choice then the scrambler. no amount of data mineing could leave you that blind to balance. Considering I haven'tbeen killed by a tac ar in months I have to consider that statement as suspect. Doesn't mean it isn't better than the ScR. The only advantage that ScR has over TacAR is charge shot, a more predictable recoil pattern, and a few more meters of range. Literally everything is better on TacARs... Everything. Damage/DPS. Damage per Mag. Fitting Costs. Better hipfire accuracy. No heat. Less Recoil. Better Damage profile. Doesn't need Amassault to be competitive.
Damage 1.5 Damage per shot does not constitute "higher damage". This is the difference between Adv and Standard on some weapons
Damage per Mag Get the **** out of here. Seriously? This isn't even mathematically true and it's grounds for me to dismiss everything you're saying because you're lying to people. Duvolle TAR does 1,752 damage per mag, Viziam Scrambler does 2,145.
Fitting Costs Congrats. 2 CPU and 7 PG. Can we go ahead and nerf the Assault Ak.0 for having 9 more PG than the Assault Mk.0? EDIT: Btw, this also means you get a much greater benefit from Assault role bonus and Proficiency skills. Just figured I'd mention it in case you forgot while spewing out your terrible arguments.
Better Hipfire Accuracy Doubt it. Would need to actually back in the game and look. Fairly certain that's not the case because the hipfire hasn't changed much/at all since I made this video, which clearly demonstrates that the Scrambler Rifle has a much tighter hipfire than the TAR
No Heat And originally you could shoot more rounds with a Scrambler Rifle than the TAR had in it's magazine before overheating on a suit -other- than an Amarr suit. Are you saying that because they buffed the TAR's mag capacity that it's somehow unbalanced?
Less recoil And the Scrambler has absolutely no muzzle climb. Where's your argument fall now?
Better Damage Profile You have a charge. Damage profile doesn't mean jack when you can charge for x3 damage.
Doesn't need AmAssault to be competitive You've got multiple videos showing that this is simply not true. It's competitive, the AmAssault just makes it that much better. It's like saying that a Combat Rifle requires a MinAssault to be competitive.
EDIT: Please stop trying to sound smart if you're just going to blindly defend the Scrambler Rifle with baseless information and incorrect data.
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Aeon Amadi
Ahrendee Inc. Negative-Feedback
9375
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Posted - 2015.03.31 22:00:00 -
[9] - Quote
Fizzer XCIV wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Fizzer XCIV wrote:
Doesn't mean it isn't better than the ScR.
The only advantage that ScR has over TacAR is charge shot, a more predictable recoil pattern, and a few more meters of range.
Literally everything is better on TacARs... Everything. Damage/DPS. Damage per Mag. Fitting Costs. Better hipfire accuracy. No heat. Less Recoil. Better Damage profile. Doesn't need Amassault to be competitive.
Damage 1.5 Damage per shot does not constitute "higher damage". This is the difference between Adv and Standard on some weapons. OK. I don't want to ever see you complain about AScRs being better than the AR, k?
Damage per Mag Get the **** out of here. Seriously? This isn't even mathematically true and it's grounds for me to dismiss everything you're saying because you're lying to people. Duvolle TAR does 1,752 damage per mag, Viziam Scrambler does 2,145. I said effective Damage per Mag. Ad in factoring in the heat. ScRs overheat before a TacAR has to reload.Fitting Costs Congrats. 2 CPU and 7 PG. Can we go ahead and nerf the Assault Ak.0 for having 9 more PG than the Assault Mk.0? EDIT: Btw, this also means you get a much greater benefit from Assault role bonus and Proficiency skills. Just figured I'd mention it in case you forgot while spewing out your terrible arguments. Ive seen you ***** about ACRs being easier to fit than ARs, and that's by even less than this.
Better Hipfire Accuracy Doubt it. Would need to actually back in the game and look. Fairly certain that's not the case because the hipfire hasn't changed much/at all since I made this video, which clearly demonstrates that the Scrambler Rifle has a much tighter hipfire than the TAR Fun fact: ARs have this magical skill called "Sharpshooter" that tightens hipfire. Also, the Assault bonus further tightens it! No such skill exists for the ScR...No Heat And originally you could shoot more rounds with a Scrambler Rifle than the TAR had in it's magazine before overheating on a suit -other- than an Amarr suit. Are you saying that because they buffed the TAR's mag capacity that it's somehow unbalanced? Yes. 24 round mags without overheat is OP. That is exactly what I am saying. Even with Amassault to V, the ScR still overheats on the 23rd round. TacARs are basically Amassault V ScRs that can be fit on any suit...
Less recoil And the Scrambler has absolutely no muzzle climb. Where's your argument fall now? The Scrambler rifle most certainly does have muzzle climb. More than the TacAR, actually...Better Damage Profile You have a charge. Damage profile doesn't mean jack when you can charge for x3 damage. Doesn't need AmAssault to be competitive You've got multiple videos showing that this is simply not true. It's competitive, the AmAssault just makes it that much better. It's like saying that a Combat Rifle requires a MinAssault to be competitive. Then why isn't it almost unused in PC on anything but Amassaults?EDIT: Please stop trying to sound smart if you're just going to blindly defend the Scrambler Rifle with baseless information and incorrect data. STFU. None of my info is ever baseless or knowingly incorrect. In fact, do you need me to remind you of yourself and kirks ****** science experiment on Myofibrils? I pointed out the CLEARLY wrong things concerning the control and measurements, and yet you just ignored me... Ass. So don't even try to lecture me on incorrect info.
Yup. Ignored you so hard I went back and did another test with Trigonometry and consulted a Mathematician at LSU to work with me on the testing.
EDIT: Bee Tee Dubs, here's a thread where I actually did some number theory-crafting totally in 100% in favor of the ASCR getting a balance pass shortly before it got a sizable DPS increase, in which I then questioned whether or not I was going to move over to it because it would outperform my AR.
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Aeon Amadi
Ahrendee Inc. Negative-Feedback
9375
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Posted - 2015.03.31 22:14:00 -
[10] - Quote
Templar XIII wrote:
-Trying to be sensible and civil in an open forum discussing a weapon by comparing it to other weapons and expecting people not to be extremely bias in favor or against, let alone finding legitimate joy in questioning the logic of the arguers-
Something is odd though: GåÆ since the TacAr is not a full-auto weapon, continuous spamming is necessary, which should leave escalating kick/recoil over time at a minimum if not nonexistent. GåÆ so how come ScR is then still perceived as more damaging? GåÆ is ScR superiority over TacAr (and AR in general?) range (effective and optimal) and dispersion the real issue here and not recoil/kick?
Please discuss...
Anyway, if you want to talk about kick/recoil - address the fact that the Scrambler and the ASCR have no muzzle climb. No amount of recoil is going to matter if the rifle resets back to it's previous firing position. Visual recoil =/= Legitimate muzzle climb/sway/movement.
Its a placebo. Players see recoil, they instantly assume that the rifle is moving, but you can fire that thing until the end of time and its never going to go off target; so for that reason its far more accurate than any other rifle in the game right now. Well, save for the Sniper Rifle, which has the same mechanics - hence why Tac Sniper Rifles were so powerful; could just keep firing with perfect accuracy based only on the rate of fire.
Same thing with the Scrambler Rifle.
As I said previously, you want to balance the Scrambler Rifle? Give it muzzle climb. Lore be damned <--- (this coming from someone who frequently jumps CCP for lore violations)
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