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Derpty Derp
Dead Man's Game
943
   |
Posted - 2015.03.25 20:24:00 -
[1] - Quote
What if hardeners dropped after taking a certain % of your vehicles total hp?
After taking 150% of your max armour, they go on cooldown.
You build a tank with no added armour, but 2 reps and 2 hardeners, you get your immortality, but it only lasts a short while. You build a tank with some added armour, you aren't immortal, but it hardens for longer.
Make shield hardeners block 200% of their max hp, because they have no reps.
The numbers may be high if you stack hp, but then you're not stacking reps and the hardener will drop when time is up anyway. Making vehicles killable, but still having that window of opportunity.
Personally I think dropping reps while hardened is a better idea, but some people don't like that... & it's always good to have choices. |
Godin Thekiller
Negative-Feedback.
Negative-Feedback
2999
|
Posted - 2015.03.25 20:28:00 -
[2] - Quote
**** no. Just stop.
click me
Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
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JARREL THOMAS
Dead Man's Game
RUST415
523
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Posted - 2015.03.25 21:29:00 -
[3] - Quote
I like the idea, but I still feel that double hardeners is not balanced. And derpty don't listen to Godin nor argue with him no where near worth it XD.
Caldari Loyalist. buff swarms...
D
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Godin Thekiller
Negative-Feedback.
Negative-Feedback
3001
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Posted - 2015.03.25 21:34:00 -
[4] - Quote
JARREL THOMAS wrote:I like the idea, but I still feel that double hardeners is not balanced. And derpty don't listen to Godin nor argue with him no where near worth it XD.
Yes, because I've yet to be as unreasonable and reactionary as possible, right?
click me
Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
5584
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Posted - 2015.03.25 21:39:00 -
[5] - Quote
Isn't a module that soaks up damage and then stops working once its soaked up a certain amount of HP.....just be a Shield Extender or Armor Plate? You're more or less describing a hardener as an HP module that has finite amount of damage it absorbs before damage starts to hurt the rest of the vehicle.
"That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032
Dust514 // Podcast
www.biomassed.net
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JARREL THOMAS
Dead Man's Game
RUST415
523
|
Posted - 2015.03.25 21:47:00 -
[6] - Quote
Godin Thekiller wrote:JARREL THOMAS wrote:I like the idea, but I still feel that double hardeners is not balanced. And derpty don't listen to Godin nor argue with him no where near worth it XD. Yes, because I've yet to be as unreasonable and reactionary as possible, right?
Coming from the one that entered the post with "**** no. Just stop"
Caldari Loyalist. buff swarms...
D
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JARREL THOMAS
Dead Man's Game
RUST415
523
|
Posted - 2015.03.25 21:49:00 -
[7] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:Isn't a module that soaks up damage and then stops working once its soaked up a certain amount of HP.....just be a Shield Extender or Armor Plate? You're more or less describing a hardener as an HP module that has finite amount of damage it absorbs before damage starts to hurt the rest of the vehicle.
Yep fare enough they should just restrict it to 1 armor hardener 1 shield hardener per fit.
Caldari Loyalist. buff swarms...
D
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
5585
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Posted - 2015.03.25 21:58:00 -
[8] - Quote
JARREL THOMAS wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:Isn't a module that soaks up damage and then stops working once its soaked up a certain amount of HP.....just be a Shield Extender or Armor Plate? You're more or less describing a hardener as an HP module that has finite amount of damage it absorbs before damage starts to hurt the rest of the vehicle. Yep fare enough they should just restrict it to 1 armor hardener 1 shield hardener per fit.
Or just fix the actual problem with is a focus on passive HP regeneration. Return active Repairers/Boosters and you'll see all of these issues evaporate.
"That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032
Dust514 // Podcast
www.biomassed.net
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Godin Thekiller
Negative-Feedback.
Negative-Feedback
3005
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Posted - 2015.03.25 22:05:00 -
[9] - Quote
JARREL THOMAS wrote:Godin Thekiller wrote:JARREL THOMAS wrote:I like the idea, but I still feel that double hardeners is not balanced. And derpty don't listen to Godin nor argue with him no where near worth it XD. Yes, because I've yet to be as unreasonable and reactionary as possible, right? Coming from the one that entered the post with "**** no. Just stop"
I sat for 5 minutes typing up why this idea was ******* silly. Then I realized that he's made several silly ideas of this caliber, and decided to not bother, and to tell him that he really does need to stop making these silly ass ideas, or at least think them through. Pokey said pretty much what I was going to say anyways, just in a shorter format.
click me
Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
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Godin Thekiller
Negative-Feedback.
Negative-Feedback
3005
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Posted - 2015.03.25 22:06:00 -
[10] - Quote
JARREL THOMAS wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:Isn't a module that soaks up damage and then stops working once its soaked up a certain amount of HP.....just be a Shield Extender or Armor Plate? You're more or less describing a hardener as an HP module that has finite amount of damage it absorbs before damage starts to hurt the rest of the vehicle. Yep fare enough they should just restrict it to 1 armor hardener 1 shield hardener per fit.
And that solves what exactly? Yea, nothing. It turns hardeners into a powerup, not a actual tool to work off of.
click me
Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
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Derpty Derp
Dead Man's Game
946
|
Posted - 2015.03.25 22:09:00 -
[11] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:Isn't a module that soaks up damage and then stops working once its soaked up a certain amount of HP.....just be a Shield Extender or Armor Plate? You're more or less describing a hardener as an HP module that has finite amount of damage it absorbs before damage starts to hurt the rest of the vehicle.
More hp for a period of time, vs less hp all the time.
Currently a hardener = about as much health as an extender, but only for a brief period of time, however with reps you're healing a lot more damage per second than if you have an extender.
So this will allow people to still do that, but it wont last as long, making extenders worth the consideration. |
Derpty Derp
Dead Man's Game
946
|
Posted - 2015.03.25 22:12:00 -
[12] - Quote
Godin Thekiller wrote:And that solves what exactly? Yea, nothing. It turns hardeners into a powerup, not a actual tool to work off of.
Bro, just make a "I want op tanks" thread already, we get it.
Ads shouldn't damage tanks...
AV shouldn't damage tanks...
Other tanks shouldn't damage tanks...
Large blasters can't hit anything (Duna goes 30+ kills a match, and he's not even a good tanker, lol.) |
Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
5585
|
Posted - 2015.03.25 22:18:00 -
[13] - Quote
Derpty Derp wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:Isn't a module that soaks up damage and then stops working once its soaked up a certain amount of HP.....just be a Shield Extender or Armor Plate? You're more or less describing a hardener as an HP module that has finite amount of damage it absorbs before damage starts to hurt the rest of the vehicle. More hp for a period of time, vs less hp all the time. Currently a hardener = about as much health as an extender, but only for a brief period of time, however with reps you're healing a lot more damage per second than if you have an extender. So this will allow people to still do that, but it wont last as long, making extenders worth the consideration.
Pretty much. You can remain pretty much perma hardened with 2 complex hardeners, and I think that's fine. However with passive reps, as long as the effective rep rate is high enough, you don't need buffer because the rep rate makes up for a lack of buffer through sheer damage mitigation.
If reps however are on a timer, you're going to need more buffer because you will have downtime where you're repping very little (natural armor reps only) so having that plate will be neccesary. You could theoretically fit 2 active reps but they don't last long enough to rep constantly, so you would still be left with downtime and even less buffer.
Active reps force a tradeoff and mixture of raw HP, damage resistance, and repping capabilities. Passive reps and resistances pretty much kick ass currently because together their damage mitigation is extremely high with no downtime.
"That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032
Dust514 // Podcast
www.biomassed.net
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Derpty Derp
Dead Man's Game
946
|
Posted - 2015.03.25 22:21:00 -
[14] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:Derpty Derp wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:Isn't a module that soaks up damage and then stops working once its soaked up a certain amount of HP.....just be a Shield Extender or Armor Plate? You're more or less describing a hardener as an HP module that has finite amount of damage it absorbs before damage starts to hurt the rest of the vehicle. More hp for a period of time, vs less hp all the time. Currently a hardener = about as much health as an extender, but only for a brief period of time, however with reps you're healing a lot more damage per second than if you have an extender. So this will allow people to still do that, but it wont last as long, making extenders worth the consideration. Pretty much. You can remain pretty much perma hardened with 2 complex hardeners, and I think that's fine. However with passive reps, as long as the effective rep rate is high enough, you don't need buffer because the rep rate makes up for a lack of buffer through sheer damage mitigation. If reps however are on a timer, you're going to need more buffer because you will have downtime where you're repping very little (natural armor reps only) so having that plate will be neccesary. You could theoretically fit 2 active reps but they don't last long enough to rep constantly, so you would still be left with downtime and even less buffer. Active reps force a tradeoff and mixture of raw HP, damage resistance, and repping capabilities. Passive reps and resistances pretty much kick ass currently because together their damage mitigation is extremely high with no downtime.
I personally think active reps would just force more of the boring camp the redzone and wait 'strategies' rather than actually being out there in the field.
currently you can drop these tanks if you're faster than them activating the hardener, but once it's on, that's it... I don't see how making them activate 2 modules changes the current trend.
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Godin Thekiller
Negative-Feedback.
Negative-Feedback
3005
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Posted - 2015.03.25 22:26:00 -
[15] - Quote
Derpty Derp wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:Derpty Derp wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:Isn't a module that soaks up damage and then stops working once its soaked up a certain amount of HP.....just be a Shield Extender or Armor Plate? You're more or less describing a hardener as an HP module that has finite amount of damage it absorbs before damage starts to hurt the rest of the vehicle. More hp for a period of time, vs less hp all the time. Currently a hardener = about as much health as an extender, but only for a brief period of time, however with reps you're healing a lot more damage per second than if you have an extender. So this will allow people to still do that, but it wont last as long, making extenders worth the consideration. Pretty much. You can remain pretty much perma hardened with 2 complex hardeners, and I think that's fine. However with passive reps, as long as the effective rep rate is high enough, you don't need buffer because the rep rate makes up for a lack of buffer through sheer damage mitigation. If reps however are on a timer, you're going to need more buffer because you will have downtime where you're repping very little (natural armor reps only) so having that plate will be neccesary. You could theoretically fit 2 active reps but they don't last long enough to rep constantly, so you would still be left with downtime and even less buffer. Active reps force a tradeoff and mixture of raw HP, damage resistance, and repping capabilities. Passive reps and resistances pretty much kick ass currently because together their damage mitigation is extremely high with no downtime. I personally think active reps would just force more of the boring camp the redzone and wait 'strategies' rather than actually being out there in the field. currently you can drop these tanks if you're faster than them activating the hardener, but once it's on, that's it... I don't see how making them activate 2 modules changes the current trend.
That is a problem with the redline, not the reps, or the HAV.
click me
Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
5586
|
Posted - 2015.03.25 22:28:00 -
[16] - Quote
Derpty Derp wrote:
I personally think active reps would just force more of the boring camp the redzone and wait 'strategies' rather than actually being out there in the field.
currently you can drop these tanks if you're faster than them activating the hardener, but once it's on, that's it... I don't see how making them activate 2 modules changes the current trend.
We've had active reps for a long time before moving to passives and it was never an issue. You relied on hardeners and your plates/extenders to tide you between cycles of repair, and it worked just fine.
"That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032
Dust514 // Podcast
www.biomassed.net
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Derpty Derp
Dead Man's Game
946
|
Posted - 2015.03.25 22:33:00 -
[17] - Quote
Godin Thekiller wrote:That is a problem with the redline, not the reps, or the HAV.
The redline is going nowhere, we've got new maps, the playable area on a lot of maps shrank instead of increasing. I'm taking this to mean we're stuck with it, therefore we have to work around it.
Pokey Dravon wrote:We've had active reps for a long time before moving to passives and it was never an issue. You relied on hardeners and your plates/extenders to tide you between cycles of repair, and it worked just fine.
A lot has changed since then, also a lot was changed because of a lack of balance. Were hardeners 40% back then? |
Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
5586
|
Posted - 2015.03.25 22:34:00 -
[18] - Quote
Derpty Derp wrote:Godin Thekiller wrote:That is a problem with the redline, not the reps, or the HAV. The redline is going nowhere, we've got new maps, the playable area on a lot of maps shrank instead of increasing. I'm taking this to mean we're stuck with it, therefore we have to work around it. Pokey Dravon wrote:We've had active reps for a long time before moving to passives and it was never an issue. You relied on hardeners and your plates/extenders to tide you between cycles of repair, and it worked just fine. A lot has changed since then, also a lot was changed because of a lack of balance. Were hardeners 40% back then?
Hardeners were 25% and skills offered an additional 10% naturally. So Hardeners were 35% for Armor, effectively. Shields were 30% and also had a 10% from skills, so hardeners were 40% for Shields, effectively.
"That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032
Dust514 // Podcast
www.biomassed.net
|
Godin Thekiller
Negative-Feedback.
Negative-Feedback
3005
|
Posted - 2015.03.25 22:45:00 -
[19] - Quote
Derpty Derp wrote:Godin Thekiller wrote:That is a problem with the redline, not the reps, or the HAV. The redline is going nowhere, we've got new maps, the playable area on a lot of maps shrank instead of increasing. I'm taking this to mean we're stuck with it, therefore we have to work around it.
And therefore let's not fix actual things, let's just break it even more?
click me
Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
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Derpty Derp
Dead Man's Game
946
|
Posted - 2015.03.25 22:51:00 -
[20] - Quote
Godin Thekiller wrote:Derpty Derp wrote:Godin Thekiller wrote:That is a problem with the redline, not the reps, or the HAV. The redline is going nowhere, we've got new maps, the playable area on a lot of maps shrank instead of increasing. I'm taking this to mean we're stuck with it, therefore we have to work around it. And therefore let's not fix actual things, let's just break it even more?
Therefore let us work within the confines we are given. If I could personally change the redlines and make the maps less simple to camp, I would... But we've tried, we've suggested, we've pleaded... But we got nothing.
It's logic, once one path closes you move a different direction. |
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Godin Thekiller
Negative-Feedback.
Negative-Feedback
3008
|
Posted - 2015.03.26 06:03:00 -
[21] - Quote
Derpty Derp wrote:Godin Thekiller wrote:And that solves what exactly? Yea, nothing. It turns hardeners into a powerup, not a actual tool to work off of. Bro, just make a "I want op tanks" thread already, we get it. Ads shouldn't damage tanks... AV shouldn't damage tanks... Other tanks shouldn't damage tanks... Large blasters can't hit anything (Duna goes 30+ kills a match, and he's not even a good tanker, lol.)
I've given several nerf suggestions for HAV's, so I don't know wtf you're talking about.
The first statement is false, as I've never said that. I've said that they shoudln't be killing HAV's like a HAV can kill a HAV, yes, but those two things are nowhere near the same thing.
Never said that.
Never said that either.
Never said that either.
You going to keep asserting what I've said? Or are you going to stop being a little ***** and get off your high horse.
click me
Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
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Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star.
4402
|
Posted - 2015.03.26 10:13:00 -
[22] - Quote
2 AV shots and the hardener turns off.
Pointless
Are you trying to kill vehicles off completely?
Disclaimer:
The above post is respectful, contains no ranting, contains no personal attacks, contains no trolling, contains no racism, contains no discrimination, contains no profanity, contains no spamming. This post is an opinion and is related to DUST514
CCP Rattati - "One giant vehicle nerf with more power to AV", you have got to be kidding...''
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Fizzer XCIV
Tal-Romon Legion
Amarr Empire
2811
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Posted - 2015.03.26 10:32:00 -
[23] - Quote
No stacking of hardeners.
Problem solved.
He ******* hard is that?
If there were identical modules for infantry, they wouldn't be stackable.
Home at Last <3
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Shamarskii Simon
The Hundred Acre Hood
225
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Posted - 2015.03.26 11:17:00 -
[24] - Quote
Well, that's just a PG/CPU expensive extender or plate...
Next, what about dropships! a good example is when you're actually using a well built Myron or Grims? All that happens is *SWARMS* and *i need a pickup* i know people who double harden their Myron for pickup/drop-off situations. Saying we can't stack hardeners wouldn't be fair for the other fitting limited/lower "effectiveness" vehicles. There is also a stacking penalty for hardeners, it's not like it roams free like extends or plates.
Entering the void and becoming wind.
Message for 1v1 air to air
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
7721
|
Posted - 2015.03.26 11:48:00 -
[25] - Quote
The idea is bad.
I cannot count the number of ways I, or any other dedicated AV player could use this idea as a method for making HAVs the rough equivalent of trying to use a logi as a primary slayer in the current meta.
In PC.
AV
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
3137
|
Posted - 2015.03.26 12:13:00 -
[26] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:2 AV shots and the hardener turns off.
Pointless
Are you trying to kill vehicles off completely?
Disclaimer:
The above post is respectful, contains no ranting, contains no personal attacks, contains no trolling, contains no racism, contains no discrimination, contains no profanity, contains no spamming. This post is an opinion and is related to DUST514
Of course they are, you know this.
Nope. Confirming that pilot input is not, and never was, valued. - Breakin Stuff
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
3137
|
Posted - 2015.03.26 12:16:00 -
[27] - Quote
JARREL THOMAS wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:Isn't a module that soaks up damage and then stops working once its soaked up a certain amount of HP.....just be a Shield Extender or Armor Plate? You're more or less describing a hardener as an HP module that has finite amount of damage it absorbs before damage starts to hurt the rest of the vehicle. Yep fare enough they should just restrict it to 1 armor hardener 1 shield hardener per fit.
Then infantry gets no more than two of anything.
No more than two plates (reactive and ferroscale count). No more than two reps (reactive plates count towards this). No more than two damage mods, kincats, regulators, extenders, rechargers and energizers count as one, no more than two eWar mods each, etc.
Two can play at this game, if you want to go down that road.
Nope. Confirming that pilot input is not, and never was, valued. - Breakin Stuff
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
3137
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Posted - 2015.03.26 12:17:00 -
[28] - Quote
Of course another absolutely terrible vehicle-breaking idea bandied about on here that wasn't thought out at all, and was probably at best a fuzzy dream just before waking up.
Nope. Confirming that pilot input is not, and never was, valued. - Breakin Stuff
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
3137
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Posted - 2015.03.26 12:22:00 -
[29] - Quote
Derpty Derp wrote:Godin Thekiller wrote:And that solves what exactly? Yea, nothing. It turns hardeners into a powerup, not a actual tool to work off of. Bro, just make a "I want op tanks" thread already, we get it. None of us have ever said that.Ads shouldn't damage tanks... Or thatAV shouldn't damage tanks... Or thatOther tanks shouldn't damage tanks... This is what we prefer, by a huge margin.Large blasters can't hit anything (Duna goes 30+ kills a match, and he's not even a good tanker, lol.) He isn't a good tanker, and his squads entire purpose is to look out for him to keep his tank alive. Not to push the objective, or take an objective, it's to look out for his sorry arse. If there's 5 people making sure you don't get destroyed, as well as calling out infantry, of course he'll get a ton of kill each and every single match.
Nope. Confirming that pilot input is not, and never was, valued. - Breakin Stuff
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
3137
|
Posted - 2015.03.26 12:23:00 -
[30] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:Derpty Derp wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:Isn't a module that soaks up damage and then stops working once its soaked up a certain amount of HP.....just be a Shield Extender or Armor Plate? You're more or less describing a hardener as an HP module that has finite amount of damage it absorbs before damage starts to hurt the rest of the vehicle. More hp for a period of time, vs less hp all the time. Currently a hardener = about as much health as an extender, but only for a brief period of time, however with reps you're healing a lot more damage per second than if you have an extender. So this will allow people to still do that, but it wont last as long, making extenders worth the consideration. Pretty much. You can remain pretty much perma hardened with 2 complex hardeners, and I think that's fine. However with passive reps, as long as the effective rep rate is high enough, you don't need buffer because the rep rate makes up for a lack of buffer through sheer damage mitigation. If reps however are on a timer, you're going to need more buffer because you will have downtime where you're repping very little (natural armor reps only) so having that plate will be neccesary. You could theoretically fit 2 active reps but they don't last long enough to rep constantly, so you would still be left with downtime and even less buffer. Active reps force a tradeoff and mixture of raw HP, damage resistance, and repping capabilities. Passive reps and resistances pretty much kick ass currently because together their damage mitigation is extremely high with no downtime.
If we get active reps and AV is kept as is, then both hulls will be relegated to staying in the redline and sniping infantry.
Nope. Confirming that pilot input is not, and never was, valued. - Breakin Stuff
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