DUST Search - Hardener drops after % of max hp is soaked up...

True Adamance wrote:

Pokey Dravon wrote:

Spkr4theDead wrote:

If we get active reps and AV is kept as is, then both hulls will be relegated to staying in the redline and sniping infantry.

I love how you can make that assertion without any knowledge of the stats of said active reps. You have no idea idea how much HP they would rep per second, how long they last, or how fast they cool down, so how can you possibly know how they will perform against AV when you lack all of the critical data needed to understand how well they perform?

You yourself scream constantly "EVERYTHING WAS BETTER IN CHROME!" where active modules were the primary means of HP regeneration. I'm sure you'll counter with "BUT AV IS SO MUCH STRONGER NOW!" *shrugs* sure, but again you have no idea what the stats of potentially new active modules are, so they would be need to be stronger than they were in Chrome as well.

So which is it? Do you want the system to work like chrome with active modules, or keep what we have now? You can't seem to make up your mind, so pick one or the other and stick with it.

More to the point I don't see how. You would essentially have the same rep/sec value per module in the case of armour tanks, however only for as long as the module itself lasts.


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Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5584	Posted - 2015.03.25 21:39:00 - [1] - Quote Isn't a module that soaks up damage and then stops working once its soaked up a certain amount of HP.....just be a Shield Extender or Armor Plate? You're more or less describing a hardener as an HP module that has finite amount of damage it absorbs before damage starts to hurt the rest of the vehicle. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5585	Posted - 2015.03.25 21:58:00 - [2] - Quote JARREL THOMAS wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Isn't a module that soaks up damage and then stops working once its soaked up a certain amount of HP.....just be a Shield Extender or Armor Plate? You're more or less describing a hardener as an HP module that has finite amount of damage it absorbs before damage starts to hurt the rest of the vehicle. Yep fare enough they should just restrict it to 1 armor hardener 1 shield hardener per fit. Or just fix the actual problem with is a focus on passive HP regeneration. Return active Repairers/Boosters and you'll see all of these issues evaporate. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5585	Posted - 2015.03.25 22:18:00 - [3] - Quote Derpty Derp wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Isn't a module that soaks up damage and then stops working once its soaked up a certain amount of HP.....just be a Shield Extender or Armor Plate? You're more or less describing a hardener as an HP module that has finite amount of damage it absorbs before damage starts to hurt the rest of the vehicle. More hp for a period of time, vs less hp all the time. Currently a hardener = about as much health as an extender, but only for a brief period of time, however with reps you're healing a lot more damage per second than if you have an extender. So this will allow people to still do that, but it wont last as long, making extenders worth the consideration. Pretty much. You can remain pretty much perma hardened with 2 complex hardeners, and I think that's fine. However with passive reps, as long as the effective rep rate is high enough, you don't need buffer because the rep rate makes up for a lack of buffer through sheer damage mitigation. If reps however are on a timer, you're going to need more buffer because you will have downtime where you're repping very little (natural armor reps only) so having that plate will be neccesary. You could theoretically fit 2 active reps but they don't last long enough to rep constantly, so you would still be left with downtime and even less buffer. Active reps force a tradeoff and mixture of raw HP, damage resistance, and repping capabilities. Passive reps and resistances pretty much kick ass currently because together their damage mitigation is extremely high with no downtime. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5586	Posted - 2015.03.25 22:28:00 - [4] - Quote Derpty Derp wrote: I personally think active reps would just force more of the boring camp the redzone and wait 'strategies' rather than actually being out there in the field. currently you can drop these tanks if you're faster than them activating the hardener, but once it's on, that's it... I don't see how making them activate 2 modules changes the current trend. We've had active reps for a long time before moving to passives and it was never an issue. You relied on hardeners and your plates/extenders to tide you between cycles of repair, and it worked just fine. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5586	Posted - 2015.03.25 22:34:00 - [5] - Quote Derpty Derp wrote: Godin Thekiller wrote: That is a problem with the redline, not the reps, or the HAV. The redline is going nowhere, we've got new maps, the playable area on a lot of maps shrank instead of increasing. I'm taking this to mean we're stuck with it, therefore we have to work around it. Pokey Dravon wrote: We've had active reps for a long time before moving to passives and it was never an issue. You relied on hardeners and your plates/extenders to tide you between cycles of repair, and it worked just fine. A lot has changed since then, also a lot was changed because of a lack of balance. Were hardeners 40% back then? Hardeners were 25% and skills offered an additional 10% naturally. So Hardeners were 35% for Armor, effectively. Shields were 30% and also had a 10% from skills, so hardeners were 40% for Shields, effectively. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5588	Posted - 2015.03.26 20:29:00 - [6] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: If we get active reps and AV is kept as is, then both hulls will be relegated to staying in the redline and sniping infantry. I love how you can make that assertion without any knowledge of the stats of said active reps. You have no idea idea how much HP they would rep per second, how long they last, or how fast they cool down, so how can you possibly know how they will perform against AV when you lack all of the critical data needed to understand how well they perform? You yourself scream constantly "EVERYTHING WAS BETTER IN CHROME!" where active modules were the primary means of HP regeneration. I'm sure you'll counter with "BUT AV IS SO MUCH STRONGER NOW!" shrugs sure, but again you have no idea what the stats of potentially new active modules are, so they would be need to be stronger than they were in Chrome as well. So which is it? Do you want the system to work like chrome with active modules, or keep what we have now? You can't seem to make up your mind, so pick one or the other and stick with it. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5588	Posted - 2015.03.26 23:11:00 - [7] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: If we get active reps and AV is kept as is, then both hulls will be relegated to staying in the redline and sniping infantry. I love how you can make that assertion without any knowledge of the stats of said active reps. You have no idea idea how much HP they would rep per second, how long they last, or how fast they cool down, so how can you possibly know how they will perform against AV when you lack all of the critical data needed to understand how well they perform? You yourself scream constantly "EVERYTHING WAS BETTER IN CHROME!" where active modules were the primary means of HP regeneration. I'm sure you'll counter with "BUT AV IS SO MUCH STRONGER NOW!" shrugs sure, but again you have no idea what the stats of potentially new active modules are, so they would be need to be stronger than they were in Chrome as well. So which is it? Do you want the system to work like chrome with active modules, or keep what we have now? You can't seem to make up your mind, so pick one or the other and stick with it. More to the point I don't see how. You would essentially have the same rep/sec value per module in the case of armour tanks, however only for as long as the module itself lasts. Well that's sort of what I was going for with a change to Shield Boosters. They have a slightly higher HP/minute than Armor repairers, don't rep constantly but can access the regeneration in large chunks on demand. Kind of like I expressed to Breakin via Skype, even if we don't get rid of these damned passive armor reps, we can at the least make shields more viable in terms of repping power through boosters The general idea is basically this: Armor has a slow natural regen (30HP/s) that can't be interrupted Shield has a high natural regen (166HP/s) that can be interrupted Armor Repariers provide moderate HP/minute regen that can't be interrupted. Shield Booster provide a higher HP/minute regeneration that doesn't run constantly, but can be accessed on demand in large chunks. It's more efficient because armor repairers essentially 'waste' HP regen when they're at full armor and not being shot at...Shield boosters on the other hand can access that regeneration when they need it meaning they will typically get better performance and efficiency over repairers. It requires more skill and planning to pilot a shield vehicle under those conditions but unfortunately until we get proper active armor repairers, it's just going be easier to pilot armor due to fewer modules to manage. At the very least revamping the shield booster is far more viable as a short term fix since it doesnt require any large changes to code, simply updating the cooldown and HP bonus values. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5590	Posted - 2015.03.26 23:29:00 - [8] - Quote I don't disagree with you True, but Rattati is set on some of those ideas despite objections so I'm just rolling with them. I think if we can at least establish what an appropriate HP/minute is for both armor and shields, then it really comes down to a matter of how much uptime and downtime for each. Currently its at both extremes, armor is 100% uptime and 0% downtime, where shield boosters are essentially ~1% uptime and ~99% downtime. If we focus more on HP per minute we can more easily transition into armor having less uptime and more downtime, and shields having more uptime and less downtime. Regardless, we can still balance them against one another at the very least, even if we need to eventually move to a more moderate and less extreme uptime/downtime balance between the two. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net