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Derpty Derp
Dead Man's Game
941
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Posted - 2015.03.20 17:41:00 -
[31] - Quote
LT SHANKS wrote:So, Legion is a no-go?
I think Legion is just R&D for where "Dust514 type gameplay" might go... Doesn't seem like it will be spawning into it's own game any time soon, but hopefully the ideas will grow into something interesting, even if it just ends up being added to Dust. |
Roy Ventus
Axis of Chaos
1910
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Posted - 2015.03.20 17:55:00 -
[32] - Quote
Honestly, at this point, I'd like for Dust to just go ahead and move onto the PS4. I heard there could be some trouble with the software or something, far as moving it over to the PS4's infrastructure but *shrugs* we only have so many options right now as the PS3 starts to slow down into it's eternal sleep.
Really, if I could offer my plan. You'd take the energy and ideas and potential of Legion and throw it onto the PS4 (and Xbox One?) version of Dust 514. From what we've seen in the video, it's not that damn much of a difference for the players. Maybe after you get Dust to the PS4, you create Legion as the PC version of Dust and transfer it to the XBox One as well(because the XBox's infrastructure is pretty close to a PC, the last I heard).
"There once was a time when there wasn't a Roy Ventus and it wasn't much of a time at all."
http://royventus.tumblr.com
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Kevall Longstride
DUST University
Ivy League
2499
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Posted - 2015.03.20 18:28:00 -
[33] - Quote
So what the CPM has known and hinted about in various channels, Dust 514 now makes money, is now out in the open and made official by Hilmar himself.
How is this is important? Dust is now a successful business. It's going to be rather silly for CCP to shut a revenue stream is it not? As CCP Falcon said to a Fanfest attendee when he stated that he thought Dust was dead, in every chart that matters, profit, player numbers and retention Dust is going up.
That isn't to say that we should dancing in the streets just yet but Aurum purchase made by players, simply strengthens the case for Dust to go beyond the PS3.
To make that point further CCP Rouge has also spoken more on Dusts future here.
CPM 1 member
CEO of DUST University
Vist dustcpm.com
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Funkmaster Whale
Whale Pod
2932
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Posted - 2015.03.20 19:05:00 -
[34] - Quote
From what I can tell there's a schism in this community. On the one hand, the current PS3 die-hard Consolites want a PS4 port, while the EVE players + M/KB DUST players would prefer a PC port, both for obvious reasons.
The question then becomes what is more economically feasible from a business standpoint for CCP. Porting DUST wouldn't simply be a copy and paste job. And even if they did port it to PS4, the entire game would surely have to be remade. Sure some assets could be transferred over, but the PS4 architecture is vastly different from the PS3, and it's very likely large parts of the game would have to be redesigned from the ground up.
Is this worth it? That's really what CCP is trying to decide. They could either spend huge amounts of resources in development, or continue to ride the PS3 DUST train for another year or two in order to gain more experience and learn more about what works and what doesn't. I think that's why CCP is so hesitant to announce anything. After last years disaster, they're incredibly hesitant to plunge head-first into something new after they've finally established ground that's working for them.
Follow me on Twitch.tv!
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ZDub 303
Internal Error.
Negative-Feedback
3392
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Posted - 2015.03.20 19:22:00 -
[35] - Quote
So the premature announcement for Legion was a mistake... fine.
But the solution is to own up to that mistake and keep their loyal fanbase somewhat updated. Not just close the doors and say, we'll talk in a few more years when I have something.
Worst mistake they could have made after FF2014.
They've already opened the door with the FF2014 announcement. They should just keep it open instead of close it in our faces.
It's like they hate their playerbase.... |
Joseph Ridgeson
WarRavens
3474
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Posted - 2015.03.20 19:30:00 -
[36] - Quote
I want to thank Dennie, EVE Uni, and DUST Uni for making the two games that CCP has a better place. DUST and EVE are very user unfriendly. Those are two organizations that help out so very, very much. Specifically to Dennie: his passion for the game is obvious and his dedication to the community existed before being a CPM member.
However, I cannot take solace in these words. Of course the CEO of CCP is going to say they are happy with his employees and the game. He kind of has to. Hell, the only time I have ever seen a developer just go "yeah, we REALLY screwed up" was Diablo III. His choice of words about "trains and platforms" is quite misguided in that it is easy to read into something that clearly wasn't intended; this was a conversation between some people at dinner, not an interview or prepared statement where Hilmar would be on his guard not to slip on anything that might lead people into looking somewhere that wasn't so. It is still scary in the regard of "yeah, DUST is going but we don't know where it will go." I cannot think of a scarier thing than to have a game company just kind of say "we don't know what is going on" with their product.
Yes, that is a little bit far too say but "we don't know what platform the train is going to go" is terrifying when it is the person that owns the train stating it.
Yeah, Legion was probably announced too early but how about telling us "yes, we are making it; it will be a while" rather than this coy "yes, maybe, *wink*" stuff. However, if Legion had not been announced, what would we have had to look forward to in one year? Higher tier tanks are back. Myofibril change. Bandwidth. And lots and lots of ways to monetize the game, with one being quite literally "pay for power."
But here is the thing: Legion was announced. CCP admitted "we cannot do DUST 514, as we wanted, on the PS3." So once hope is dead, what do we have left? I like this game and I love what it could be but it is getting really hard to not just feel like we are continuously getting kicked in the balls.
"This is B.S! This is B.S! I paid money! Cash money, dollars money, cash money!"
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Krixus Flux
Kang Lo Directorate
Gallente Federation
520
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Posted - 2015.03.20 20:09:00 -
[37] - Quote
So the heavy monetization is okay with guys? I'm honestly a little perturbed by the bland style of development, while the new stuff is heavy handed behind a paywall. To me, that's a major concern no one is addressing. I guess dudes are cool with that. The core gameplay is still bad. The mechanics still feel off. But that's ignored due to the playerbase's playtime that has long since adjusted to it. I can't be the only one who sees this.
Again, I feel its a dangling of carrots so the consumer can feel safe making an exchange with real world currency for AUR. Now they discussing another project? Dude, I feel like I'm being strung along here.
Saying what's on people's minds
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Aeon Amadi
Ahrendee Inc.
Negative-Feedback
9280
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Posted - 2015.03.20 20:12:00 -
[38] - Quote
Kain Spero wrote:LT SHANKS wrote:So, Legion is a no-go? At this point that seems more than clear. As a community we need to refocus and redouble our efforts to ensure that Dust 514 lives beyond the PS3. A community uproar made CCP take Valkyrie from a project to a full production. We need to similarly ensure that our voices are heard that we want Dust to live beyond the PS3.
Why bother? They're making money off of us now. They have no reason to do anything differently.
CCP doesn't do new. They do revamps, overhauls, and re-iterations. Nothing has ever changed about that, nothing ever will. Eve Online over the past several freaggin years has been nothing but glossing over all the old stuff to make it work with a handful of actual new content here and there. Dust 514? No different.
We're going to be trapped in this same hell and the only difference between Dust 514 and Eve Online is that you can't buff up Dust 514 to modern hardware standards - it's stuck right where it is.
I for one am 100% angry. If they want to actually do Dust 514 right, quit screwing around and -DO IT RIGHT-. Put the entire dev team back on task and quit screwing around with side projects that have no context, meaning, and will never see the light of day. If you're going to say that you're going to fix Dust 514, don't put CCP Rattati to it and then take credit for his work - actually put some effort into it as a -game development studio-.
Have a suggestion for the Planetary Services Department?
Founder of AIV
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Stefan Stahl
Seituoda Taskforce Command
1082
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Posted - 2015.03.20 20:21:00 -
[39] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:We're going to be trapped in this same hell and the only difference between Dust 514 and Eve Online is that you can't buff up Dust 514 to modern hardware standards - it's stuck right where it is.
I for one am 100% angry. If they want to actually do Dust 514 right, quit screwing around and -DO IT RIGHT-. Between Fanfest 2013 and Fanfest 2015, which of these did you find a better way of approaching Dust development? |
One Eyed King
Nos Nothi
8689
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Posted - 2015.03.20 20:31:00 -
[40] - Quote
Thanks for the info, and being our advocate in our absence.
Former CEO of the Land of the BIind.
Any double entendre is unintended I assure you.
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Kalante Schiffer
Ancient Exiles.
1026
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Posted - 2015.03.20 21:03:00 -
[41] - Quote
my ps4 is covered in dust waiting for dust 514. Ive seriously havent played that thing in like three weeks.
framerate>everything else
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TEBOW BAGGINS
1710
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Posted - 2015.03.20 21:08:00 -
[42] - Quote
I like how their choosing to remain silent about future features. They've obviously learned their lesson from the past to not pump us full of conceptual ideas that we do not forget as easily as they do. |
Vrain Matari
Mikramurka Shock Troop
Minmatar Republic
2572
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Posted - 2015.03.21 05:23:00 -
[43] - Quote
Fox Gaden wrote:Kain Spero wrote:Thanks for the update Dennie.
If you get the chance again please impress upon Hilmar that there is a community ready and waiting to follow this game to PS4. Just as Eve players bought PS3s to play Dust I'm confident those same folks (potentially grumbling along the way) would purchase PS4s for Dust 514 on that platform.
I know many many old school Dust players that have moved on to PS4 that would play Dust on the PS4 if it came to that platform. Let's keep the train rolling and not give any excuse to halt it in it's tracks. Chances of me purchasing a PS4 if DUST does not go to PS4: 10% Chances of me purchasing a PS4 if DUST goes to PS4: 100%
^
PSN: RationalSpark
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duster 35000
Algintal Core
Gallente Federation
424
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Posted - 2015.03.21 07:12:00 -
[44] - Quote
A dev and a cheater walk into a bar...
Molestia approved
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Kain Spero
Negative-Feedback.
4846
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Posted - 2015.03.21 10:35:00 -
[45] - Quote
TEBOW BAGGINS wrote:I like how their choosing to remain silent about future features. They've obviously learned their lesson from the past to not pump us full of conceptual ideas that we do not forget as easily as they do.
True, but you don't have to talk about features when you discuss a commitment to make a game last beyond current gen.
Owner of Spero Escrow Services
Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news
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Georgia Xavier
Y.A.M.A.H
103
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Posted - 2015.03.21 11:11:00 -
[46] - Quote
Haerr wrote:Kain Spero wrote:Thanks for the update Dennie.
If you get the chance again please impress upon Hilmar that there is a community ready and waiting to follow this game to PS4 PC. Just as Eve players bought PS3s to play Dust I'm confident those same folks (potentially grumbling along the way) would purchase PS4s PCs for Dust 514 on that platform.
I know many many old school Dust players that have moved on to PS4 PC that would play Dust on the PS4 PC if it came to that platform. Let's keep the train rolling and not give any excuse to halt it in it's tracks. FTFY
Would be nice if I could avoid buying a ps4 just for one game. The majority of the games I want to play I already have on PC. Besides PC is much more efficient than a Ps4. Not trying to bash here this is merely my opinion. But if dust does go to ps4 then I might actually buy it
How many amarr does it take to change a light bulb? none. The minmatar do it for them
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Vrain Matari
Mikramurka Shock Troop
Minmatar Republic
2572
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Posted - 2015.03.21 11:38:00 -
[47] - Quote
Thinking about it a bit more, though the temptation would be to run out and buy a PS4, i'd honestly wait a bit if a port happened - long enough to get a solid reading from the forums to see if the mechanics and glitches/bugs had been fixed.
Also would be looking for a couple of things that are obviously at the top of Rattati's priority list: the AUR store and new player retention.
AUR
The current form of the extortionistic AUR store is acceptable as a stop-gap measure to save Dust, but only as that - making money off of new players by amplifying the power gap between them and vets/tryhards is a long-term losing strategy imo(and i'm one of the most hardcore anti-tiericide vets in the game). These kind of RMT tactics are always highlighted and pointed out in game reviews and players/press are already wary about Dust given all the things.
Retention
Keeping new players is a lot like making money, there are cheezy, tasteless ways to do this that would generally involve dumbing the game down and would involve a string of anti-NewEden decisions. The hard road would be to resist the accessible amusement park route and instead celebrate & create 'New Eden on the ground'. It would mean fixing what was wrong with the mechanics and systems of DUST as the first order of business.
Rattati's survey results re: feeling of lack of progression being a primary factor in early quitting no doubt are part of the answer, but for the peeps who stick around longer core mechanics soon rears it's ugly head - this isn't speculation or opinion, metacritic is rife with criticism re: Dust's core fps mechanics. Rattati talks like fps will be the cure for this but i'm not convinced, the vets would have sign off on the PS4 product for me.
That's the next big question for our development: can Rat grow the playerbase without cheezing it? He certainly cheezed the AUR store but we were in a desperate position at that point. Now that he's demonstrated profitability, we will see what value Rattati/Rouge/CCP put on game quality and integrity/fidelity to New Eden.
A PS4 port would be a natural point to stop and assess the time one has invested in DUST. If the peeps whose opinions i trusted were saying that it was the same old kittenpoop on a new platform then i'd be forced to admit that i'd been succumbing to the Sunk Cost Fallacy.
And that would suck, bigtime.
PSN: RationalSpark
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General Mosquito
Kinsho Swords
Caldari State
47
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Posted - 2015.03.21 13:13:00 -
[48] - Quote
Kevall Longstride wrote:
Rattati and the Shanghai team have been doing a phenomenal job on Dust and he's very pleased with how the game plays now.
Anyone who is very pleased with how Dust plays right now shouldn't be involved in making an FPS.
They spent the last year figuring out how to monetize Dust, which is great, but they didn't reinvest that money into making Dust not ****, which is infuriating.
So glad I adopted the no money for dust policy, as clearly CCP doesn't have any real long term plans for the franchise other than tapping out the mouth breathers foolish enough to still be giving them cash.
General Butt Naked - Biomassed
The Attorney General - Biomassed when unbanned
Only 9 more alts to go.
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Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
8650
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Posted - 2015.03.21 13:16:00 -
[49] - Quote
Kain Spero wrote:TEBOW BAGGINS wrote:I like how their choosing to remain silent about future features. They've obviously learned their lesson from the past to not pump us full of conceptual ideas that we do not forget as easily as they do. True, but you don't have to talk about features when you discuss a commitment to make a game last beyond current gen. In lieu of discussing future features they should then discuss the potential for Eve: Legion and a subsequent PS4 port.
Since CCP is doing neither we can surmise they have no idea what they want to do with Dust 514 beyond have it keep funding Eve: Valkyrie and Project Nemesis development.
4 out of 5 dentists agree that orange is not a sound.
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LOOKMOM NOHANDS
Warpoint Sharx
310
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Posted - 2015.03.21 13:23:00 -
[50] - Quote
General Mosquito wrote:Kevall Longstride wrote:
Rattati and the Shanghai team have been doing a phenomenal job on Dust and he's very pleased with how the game plays now.
Anyone who is very pleased with how Dust plays right now shouldn't be involved in making an FPS. They spent the last year figuring out how to monetize Dust, which is great, but they didn't reinvest that money into making Dust not ****, which is infuriating. So glad I adopted the no money for dust policy, as clearly CCP doesn't have any real long term plans for the franchise other than tapping out the mouth breathers foolish enough to still be giving them cash.
I agree. This makes two fanfests in a row that have sent me back to not wanting to spend money on this game. Just last week I was ready to spend a few hundred K aurum on keys to show a bit of support for the game. After fanfest and seeing that they seem fairly happy with this mediocre rate of growth and pile of issues I am feeling less supportive.
How long can they continue to bounce numbers around on the server and repaint suits before we all get bored? |
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Avinash Decker
Seykal Expeditionary Group
Minmatar Republic
190
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Posted - 2015.03.21 15:02:00 -
[51] - Quote
Ripley Riley wrote:Kain Spero wrote:TEBOW BAGGINS wrote:I like how their choosing to remain silent about future features. They've obviously learned their lesson from the past to not pump us full of conceptual ideas that we do not forget as easily as they do. True, but you don't have to talk about features when you discuss a commitment to make a game last beyond current gen. In lieu of discussing future features they should then discuss the potential for Eve: Legion and a subsequent PS4 port. Since CCP is doing neither we can surmise they have no idea what they want to do with Dust 514 beyond have it keep funding Eve: Valkyrie and Project Nemesis development.
I doubt its making enough money to fund projects. Profitability means keeping Dust up could cost 500k, but revenue is 600k, therefore Dust made 100k. CCP layoff a bunch of people last year and many left too. With not many people working on Dust and no serious development it probably is making profit, but not enough to be funding anything by itself.
Fanfest didn't bring any new news for dust development; nearly everything they talked about has been talked about for a few months. It seems they are remaining the status quo. |
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