Commandos NEED equipment slot for hives.

They need to be self supporting, or else what good are they?


Give grenade as well as 1 extra slot, and perhaps more shield regen for the min and cal, and I think we can call it a day.

OKAY, first things first. Yes, this should belong in Feedback and Discussions. However, the user volume here is 10x higher, and I'm of the opinion that an idea like this input from all walks of Dust Life, not just the people who frequent F&D.

---

Ah, the Dust514 Commando. For those who are unfamiliar, its a heavy frame that trades its Heavy Weapon slot for two light weapons, giving it formidable versatility on the battlefield.

Due to its use of Light Weapons, and skills that increase the damage of those racial weapons, it would be safe to assume that the Commando should be a form of "Heavy Assault", with less overall mobility and regen, but instead having the ability to put lots of pain downfield, with high damage and reload.

However, the current commandos are LACKING several attributes that enable that kind of behavior. This post will go over these problems.

Advantages and Disadvantages between Assault and Commando: NOTE: I'm using the Caldari versions as the baseline.

Disadvantages:

The Commando has a hitbox a size frame larger.

The Commando is 19% slower in strafe and sprint speed. Also has lower Stamina and regen. Big loss of mobility

The Commando has less overall regen in shield stats, but more in armor stats.

The Commando loses 50% of slots

The Commando has 28% less CPU and 22% less PG.

The Commando Loses the Grenade slot.

The Commando loses Precision and Dampening

Advantages

10% Increased Damage with Rail weaponry

25% Increased Reload Speed (For every commando but the Caldari, since the Assault shares that bonus)

The Commando has ~50% more health at base.

---

But what does this mean?

The Commando is very terribly dwarfed by the Assault, even though the data doesn't make it seem so. 50% extra health right? 10% extra damage?!? You have 1/2 the slots and only 25% less fitting power?

Surely you would have just as much health as an assault, with everything proto'd out right? WRONG.

Take my Assault CK.0. 4x Shields, 1x Energizer, 2x Regulator and 1x Ferro.

This monster has 613 shields, 276 armor and 52 hp/s shield regen, with 2.05s delay. Speed remains unchanged. Now, it deals 10% less damage, but that's about it. It reloads just as fast, is harder to hit, and still has access to a grenade. No 2nd LW though, which is actually a huge selling point to the commando.

Now, lets look at my Commando. 2x Shields, 1x Energizer, 1x Regulator.

Deals 10% extra damage, which is better than a complex damage mod. However, even with that "free" slot, you will notice some large problems with the suit.

It only has 615 shields, 312 armor and 35 hp/s shield regen. 3.69s delay. For a shield based suit, this is pretty pitiful. The extra 50 HP armor buffer is almost useless, and you lose lots of regen out of the suit. The only things you gain is the extra weapon slot and damage buff.

Is 10% really enough of a bonus to fix this? Right now, the suits aren't "Heavy Assaults". They're more akin to a horribly fit Assault suit with damage mods slapped on.

---

How do we fix this?

Easiest way is simple. Slots and Fitting. The damage bonus is a shining point for the class, and the reload speed can help make specialist weapons like the PLC and MD more viable. The main problem with the class is the severe lack of HP gained when compared to properly fit Assault suits.

Med frames all have the same slot count: 8.

Sentinels have 5 slots at proto. Why shouldn't the Commando be the same? It is a heavy suit after all!

Also: Why does a heavy assault suit not have grenades? Is equipment that important to a suit designed to breach and destroy? This is largely the reason why the commandos are treated as long range camping suits, because they can carry their own hives. Switch the Equip for a Grenade.

---

Okay, but what slots go where?

Following racial fashion, they would mimic the Sentinel Slot layout (Since the Assault/Logi layout is also the same, mostly)

Caldari: 4H, 1L
Gallente: 2H, 3L
Amarr: 1H, 4L
Minmatar: 3H, 2L

All get grenades, lose equip slot.
Fitting adjusted as needed.

---

Results:

That Ck.0 is now much tougher, with a healthy 717 shields and 30 HP/s shield regen (Used a Recharger). Regen isn't exactly pivotal on Commando's, as high regen should never coincide with high health, but this is a healthy amount for a commando.

It now has access to grenades. Imagine a CK.0 breaching a room with dual assault rail rifles after throwing a flux into the room, unleashing havoc as he progresses.

How about that Gk.0? With 700 armor and a double damage modded AR + reload and skills? Backing it up with a shotgun or PLC?

That AK.0 at range? With 1k Armor and a damage modded ScR and Laser rifle?

The Mk.0 sprinting along with the pack, running with 557 shields and a CR that almost ignores your shield resistance? Or possibly running 2x Damage mods and breaching a room with dual Six Kin ACR's?

---

I believe that changes such as these will go a long way toward improving the commando on the battlefield, making it the tough, gruff heavy assault suit that would be the weapon of choice in tightly enclosed combat areas, where HP and Damage dealing is more important than the extra mobility that the assault can provide.

---

Thoughts? Suggestions? Am I a complete idiot? Feedback is appreciated.

OKAY, first things first. Yes, this should belong in Feedback and Discussions. However, the user volume here is 10x higher, and I'm of the opinion that an idea like this input from all walks of Dust Life, not just the people who frequent F&D.

---

Ah, the Dust514 Commando. For those who are unfamiliar, its a heavy frame that trades its Heavy Weapon slot for two light weapons, giving it formidable versatility on the battlefield.

Due to its use of Light Weapons, and skills that increase the damage of those racial weapons, it would be safe to assume that the Commando should be a form of "Heavy Assault", with less overall mobility and regen, but instead having the ability to put lots of pain downfield, with high damage and reload.

However, the current commandos are LACKING several attributes that enable that kind of behavior. This post will go over these problems.

Advantages and Disadvantages between Assault and Commando: NOTE: I'm using the Caldari versions as the baseline.

Disadvantages:

The Commando has a hitbox a size frame larger.

The Commando is 19% slower in strafe and sprint speed. Also has lower Stamina and regen. Big loss of mobility

The Commando has less overall regen in shield stats, but more in armor stats.

The Commando loses 50% of slots

The Commando has 28% less CPU and 22% less PG.

The Commando Loses the Grenade slot.

The Commando loses Precision and Dampening

Advantages

10% Increased Damage with Rail weaponry

25% Increased Reload Speed (For every commando but the Caldari, since the Assault shares that bonus)

The Commando has ~50% more health at base.

---

But what does this mean?

The Commando is very terribly dwarfed by the Assault, even though the data doesn't make it seem so. 50% extra health right? 10% extra damage?!? You have 1/2 the slots and only 25% less fitting power?

Surely you would have just as much health as an assault, with everything proto'd out right? WRONG.

Take my Assault CK.0. 4x Shields, 1x Energizer, 2x Regulator and 1x Ferro.

This monster has 613 shields, 276 armor and 52 hp/s shield regen, with 2.05s delay. Speed remains unchanged. Now, it deals 10% less damage, but that's about it. It reloads just as fast, is harder to hit, and still has access to a grenade. No 2nd LW though, which is actually a huge selling point to the commando.

Now, lets look at my Commando. 2x Shields, 1x Energizer, 1x Regulator.

Deals 10% extra damage, which is better than a complex damage mod. However, even with that "free" slot, you will notice some large problems with the suit.

It only has 615 shields, 312 armor and 35 hp/s shield regen. 3.69s delay. For a shield based suit, this is pretty pitiful. The extra 50 HP armor buffer is almost useless, and you lose lots of regen out of the suit. The only things you gain is the extra weapon slot and damage buff.

Is 10% really enough of a bonus to fix this? Right now, the suits aren't "Heavy Assaults". They're more akin to a horribly fit Assault suit with damage mods slapped on.

---

How do we fix this?

Easiest way is simple. Slots and Fitting. The damage bonus is a shining point for the class, and the reload speed can help make specialist weapons like the PLC and MD more viable. The main problem with the class is the severe lack of HP gained when compared to properly fit Assault suits.

Med frames all have the same slot count: 8.

Sentinels have 5 slots at proto. Why shouldn't the Commando be the same? It is a heavy suit after all!

Also: Why does a heavy assault suit not have grenades? Is equipment that important to a suit designed to breach and destroy? This is largely the reason why the commandos are treated as long range camping suits, because they can carry their own hives. Switch the Equip for a Grenade.

---

Okay, but what slots go where?

Following racial fashion, they would mimic the Sentinel Slot layout (Since the Assault/Logi layout is also the same, mostly)

Caldari: 4H, 1L
Gallente: 2H, 3L
Amarr: 1H, 4L
Minmatar: 3H, 2L

All get grenades, lose equip slot.
Fitting adjusted as needed.

---

Results:

That Ck.0 is now much tougher, with a healthy 717 shields and 30 HP/s shield regen (Used a Recharger). Regen isn't exactly pivotal on Commando's, as high regen should never coincide with high health, but this is a healthy amount for a commando.

It now has access to grenades. Imagine a CK.0 breaching a room with dual assault rail rifles after throwing a flux into the room, unleashing havoc as he progresses.

How about that Gk.0? With 700 armor and a double damage modded AR + reload and skills? Backing it up with a shotgun or PLC?

That AK.0 at range? With 1k Armor and a damage modded ScR and Laser rifle?

The Mk.0 sprinting along with the pack, running with 557 shields and a CR that almost ignores your shield resistance? Or possibly running 2x Damage mods and breaching a room with dual Six Kin ACR's?

---

I believe that changes such as these will go a long way toward improving the commando on the battlefield, making it the tough, gruff heavy assault suit that would be the weapon of choice in tightly enclosed combat areas, where HP and Damage dealing is more important than the extra mobility that the assault can provide.

---

Thoughts? Suggestions? Am I a complete idiot? Feedback is appreciated.



Make tho a thing ccp

Switch the Equip for a Grenade.

I don't run a Commando because, well, they just aren't worth the SP investment at the moment.

I will make a suggestion that I haven't seen postulated yet to improve them.

It's easy for inept CCP to implement and maybe it makes them quickly and easily desirable.

Make one of the light weapon slots a heavy weapon slot, allowing them to field one light weapon and either a HMG or Forge Gun if they so choose.

So two light weapons or one heavy and one light. Keep the slot layout, speed, regen, hitbox, Ewar, HP, and no grenade the same.

Whadaya think?

Edit: Maybe disable the commando reload and dam bonus for the heavy weapon slot.

I don't run a Commando because, well, they just aren't worth the SP investment at the moment.

The SP investment is actually what makes the Commando shine. The less SP invested into literally everything involving your Commando the worse the suit performs.
It is by far the most SP intensive suit.
I would never recommend somebody to skill into a Commando unless they already have at least 3 other roles maxed out.
Just my .02 ISK.

I believe everyone here understands that less SP=worse performance. Not sure where you were going with that.

And the scout suit is by far the most SP intensive suit for the myriad reasons I don't feel inclined to list bc it is so obvious and accepted as a universal fact.

So. Heavy and light weapon commandos...carry on.

Logi is easily the most sp intensive. I will fund logis. They are worth every penny.

If you are referring to equipment that is extemporaneous. But let's examine.

Proto logi=3-4 eq slots to proto to be at best.

Scout=2 eq slots to be at best, especially cloak.

Scout will want all 3 ewar skills to be at 5. Logi doesn't.

Scout is most SP intensive suit and everyone already knows this but you evidently.

Edit: Apologies to OP. So Commandos with heavy weapon. Brilliant huh?

Is there a TL;DR ?

T\
Fix shield tankers like minmatar and caldari, they should have by far better timers in their delays, not necessarily in regeneration but delays have to be worked. For example. 4 delay and 3 depleted for caldari and minmatar maybe 3 in both because its delays sux for the amount of hp that it regenerate and also because shields are going to be its main tank. (note that its shields aren't as strong as caldarians.)

Buff the MinCommando? Sure, why the hell not?
In fact, I dare you to buff it.
****, I double dare ya.

I absolutely hate commando users, (kill me way too fast, but whatever). I don't run them either. But I have to say, this would make me love the commando much more and maybe spec it

This is not a fun idea. Lack of a nanohive neuters you if you want to use: mass driver, PLC, swarm launcher, laser rifle, and pretty much any stand off approach to fighting with any rifle.

I think we should embrace commandos as weapon specialists rather than heavy assaults. The combination of two light weapons are what makes them special.

I agree they need an extra slot to alow more versitility, but other improvements should be focused on the weapons. There's nothing wrong with them being good at long range combat.

Amarr commandos need a second high slot, otherwise the damage bonus is kind of pointless. They could also do with a bonus to AV, maybe the plasma cannon, or can we have an AV laser rifle? Perhaps they should get the assault suit's heat reduction in addition to the damage?

Caldari commandos need the swarm launcher bonus like the minmatar.

If commandos can tactically make use of specialist weapons and AV, better than assaults by trading mobility, they will have a good role.

I'm so confused.

I'm getting likes but everyone in the comments disagrees with me.

Also: I'm lost as to why you want better eWAR on the suit. Nobody needs eWAR anymore. All you need is a Gal Logi.

I'm aware that my changes will shift the commando from its current role, which is primarily an AV platform that can defend itself, or a long range camper / Area denial camper.

What I want is a Commando that would be a viable slaying suit in environments such as small city complexes, where the objectives aren't too far from each other, but too far for viable sentinel maneuverability.

Interesting idea from a friend: How about making the Commandos slot layout mimic the basic heavy frame slot progression? So the Amarr would have 2H, 3L and so on.

I'll also drop the grenade idea. It seems I'm the only one who wants it....

The SP investment is actually what makes the Commando shine. The less SP invested into literally everything involving your Commando the worse the suit performs.
It is by far the most SP intensive suit.
I would never recommend somebody to skill into a Commando unless they already have at least 3 other roles maxed out.
Just my .02 ISK.

Good post Kaisar.

The only change I would make to your assessment would be swapping the reload bonus to regen. This tones down the AV dominance of the minmando while allowing a buff to the PLC that won't be instantly broken in the hands of the galmando.

Since it is the reload bonus giving the minmando around 15% in sustained DPS over assaults.

You're supposed to check to see if there isn't already a thread on a topic before you make your own.
Since you didn't bother, here you go.
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2679500#post2679500