If anything, I would rather see two different types of swarms, one for ground vehicles and one for aerial vehicles so we can balance them separately. Even better, we can wait until the new vehicles in place so we can really balance AV without having to redo everything in a few weeks.

Give Dropships an equipment slot that allows them to use chaff. Problem solved and everyone is happy.

Only to swarms, it's the only av that is a problem.

- AV and Flux grenades require you to be close-ish and so the easy to land high damage requires good positioning and movement to get there without dieing.

- Forge gun requires timing and aiming as well as position, can only be used on a slow suit.

- Plasma cannon requires you be suicidal... Needs a buff not a nerf.

I'm gonna ignore all the other things and focus on "Can we make swarms to require more skill?"


[IDEA 1: DUMBFIRED BUT HOMING IN]
* Missile(s) leave dumb fired and fly straight line, maybe slowish.
* When targeting box is used to 'paint' target, all missiles in air wake up and home in on target. Maybe getting a big speed buff.
* Missile flight times would be adjusted respectively a lot up.
* Whether initial lock-on would be required has to be thought over, and the process of box-painting targets
* Whether terrain blocks box-painting or not has to be thought over. Probably yes BUT as long as you get to see red vehicle marker, thru scans of squadmate spotting, probabaly that would be enough. "+" for teamwork.

Results: Swarms no longer fire-and-forget. would be possible to fire several rounds up on sky at different angles, and try to make swarms hit the target both from up ignoring cover and maybe, maybe, even get your own swarms to do a volley of near simultaneous hits!
A lot of three-dimensional thinking would be required.


[IDEA 2: SIMPLE TARGETING BOX CHANGE]
* Make the targeting box smaller
Results: The firing process would need steadier hand. Not much would change.


[IDEA 3: ALTERNATIVE AMMO TYPES]
* Right click to swap swarm type or setting.
* Shield and armor missiles fired, maybe some others such as dumb or all-purpose

Results: would add management to choose the right time to swap ammo, that would mean surveying the target in order for optimal change time.




I'd say the idea 1 would be cool, I imagine myself setting swarm babies up or flanking obstacles and then painting the target for added fun and fireworks!

So...

...how would you add more skill into using swarms?

I wouldn't. You can absolutely solo vehicles in real life, easier than you can in Dust, actually.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FGM-148_Javelin

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIM-92_Stinger

I wouldn't. You can absolutely solo vehicles in real life, easier than you can in Dust, actually.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FGM-148_Javelin

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIM-92_Stinger

Well played... Although the quote of derp had no actual ideas in it T____T.

An idea that would make swarms somewhat less swarmy, but potentially fun to use and skillful, would be to have them fire 4 - 6 rockets, in a straight line, in slow succession & if they come within a certain distance of a vehicle, they take the most direct route between their position and the vehicle.

Requires you to have line of sight, but not directly at the target, so you can fire past a wall and hope to get it close enough to lock.

Requires you to keep aiming for a set period of time to try and land as many as possible before reload and to not waste any of the missiles.

Can have more damage per rocket, because it will now take some skill, while still being more forgiving than the other av (larger area to aim at, more shots to correct aim if the first is off target.

If fired at infantry, only detonates on impact with dropsuit, no detonation or splash if fired at the ground or a nearby wall... So no more easy infantry carnage.


Now I feel better.

This could be interesting. Only thing I would say is that instant right angle turns would be a bit of a bad idea, if you imagine you escape behind a building or hill with 10 armour left and jump out to rep and a missile comes past and right angles directly into the tank or dropship ^^

The problem with taking away the fire-and-forget lock of swarms is that once you do, you make it easier for them to be used against infantry, and then everyone starts sobbing.

The problem with taking away the fire-and-forget lock of swarms is that once you do, you make it easier for them to be used against infantry, and then everyone starts sobbing.

I agree it sucks, we'd all rather have them curve as they should... But CCP have proven several times they can't implement that, lol.
But at least you still have a chance to evade them after they've been fired, rather than the current "it's been shot (& even though I can't see the guy firing it or the swarms) it's gonna hit no matter what."




No different to the plasma cannon currently... And everyone seems fine with that instapopping... Or the forge gun.

No different to the plasma cannon currently... And everyone seems fine with that instapopping... Or the forge gun.

We could just make them dumbfire and have it fire a ring of missiles that spirals at whatever you shoot them at... Oh, wait...

I wouldn't. You can absolutely solo vehicles in real life, easier than you can in Dust, actually.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FGM-148_Javelin

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIM-92_Stinger

I wouldn't. You can absolutely solo vehicles in real life, easier than you can in Dust, actually.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FGM-148_Javelin

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIM-92_Stinger

But in RL vehicles has countermeasures which they can deploy so they can actually survive another day

If swarms are made to require skill which generally means aim then the only way i can see it is that for the missiles to hit then they have to keep the lock on and if the target goes behind cover and you lose lock that is it and the missiles blow or whatever.

I quite like this, if the target isn't painted then the missile will continue on it's current course... then if target is repainted and the missile hasn't run out of fuel/time etc. it will go for the target. This would be cool, it allows for pilot skill of getting out of dodge and individual skill for destroying the target. In which case swarms would need a moderate buff to damage to adjust for the extra time taken to keep lock. Unless you could just pop missiles out one after the other until the clip is empty and as long as you keep lock they will all follow... leads to the importance of ammo management a little more, then swarm ammo could cost more nanites form a nanohive.

I wouldn't. You can absolutely solo vehicles in real life, easier than you can in Dust, actually.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FGM-148_Javelin

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIM-92_Stinger

No

It is one set of missiles in the air at one time, having anymore would hammer the DS since i can get all volleys out at 4seconds.

But in RL vehicles has countermeasures which they can deploy so they can actually survive another day

hehe you're missing the point. This post is not about solo-ing vehicles or not. The point here is that swarms should be able to solo vehicles, but should need a bit more skill to do so rather than simply fire and forget. Just for the sake of making the game more fun

They are fire and forget, reposition, acquire target, scan for enemy infantry, fire and forget again, avoid HAV and force tanker who just jumped out of his tank with an HMG back into his tank, wait for lock on again and fire and forget again, wait for hardeners to drop, fire and forget again, throw AV grenades while dodging rounds and fire and forget one more time.

This is opposed to the highly skilled tanker or LAV, see swarmer firing, drive up to less than 5 meters, use blaster to kill him in 2 seconds or jump out and mow him down if you suck too much to use your turret.

How about if we just made swarm launchers more effective against tanks and lavs and made assault swarm launchers more mobile against dropships but less damaging. This accounts for the maneuverability of the dropship while also presenting a niche or "give and take" situation depending on what the larger threat is. This would tie in nicely with the future introduction of anti infantry and anti vehicle small missile turrets.

Alternatively, an equipment slot could be added to dropships. This would have a few options:

1. Ammo preloader: reload 25% faster and fire 10% faster at proto
2. Afterburner: increase acceleration
3. Flare: stops active swarms from chasing the dropship. 50% chance at proto
4. Radar: identifies targets on the ground and in the air with a lock marker
5. Chaff emitter: stops lock on and creates a cloud of masking metal in the air for 10 s behind the dropship.

I feel this would allow a lot more variation and would be a well deserved change from the one or two fits that dominate ads usage currently. It would add a niche and purpose to every fit of vehicle. For example, a damage mod fit with a preloader could be an ideal glass cannon, whereas an afterburner fit with anti vehicle missiles would be ideal for aerial engagement.

Ik this is a radical idea but honestly, fitting is just so bland right now. There aren't more than 3 good Python fits that work against proto av and there is no room for purpose built fitting.


Ps. I advise changing the title to something apt

They are fire and forget, reposition, acquire target, scan for enemy infantry, fire and forget again, avoid HAV and force tanker who just jumped out of his tank with an HMG back into his tank, wait for lock on again and fire and forget again, wait for hardeners to drop, fire and forget again, throw AV grenades while dodging rounds and fire and forget one more time.

This is opposed to the highly skilled tanker or LAV, see swarmer firing, drive up to less than 5 meters, use blaster to kill him in 2 seconds or jump out and mow him down if you suck too much to use your turret.

In New eden this is true as well. Another argument for separating ammo and weapon in dust: Defender missiles.
In fact, defender missiles could make lavs a viable escort for havs or alternately fitting a small missile turret on your tank to equip defender missiles would allow the tank to better combat swarms but at the cost of reducing their anti-infantry/av capabilities

I wouldn't. You can absolutely solo vehicles in real life, easier than you can in Dust, actually.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FGM-148_Javelin

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIM-92_Stinger