DUST Search - Kinetic Catalyzer Rework

duster 35000 wrote:

Vesta Opalus wrote:

Kinetic Catalyzers seem to be an outlier in terms of tier progression, where the basic > enhanced gets 3% (160% of basic version total effectiveness) boost, and then enhanced > prototype gives you a bigger 4% (240% of basic version's total effectiveness) boost. Generally the system is supposed to be more biased towards using enhanced gear as the most efficient gear, but with the large cost of even basic kinetic catalyzers plus the tier progression in effectiveness, only the complex catalyzer is seen as worth it.

Currently KinCat progression is 5%/8%/12%. Making it more along the lines of shield extenders or armor plates, KinCats should be something more along the line of standard: 6%, advanced: 10%, complex: 12%. In addition to this I think the basic should have its PG lowered significantly (from 9 to 5 perhaps), and enhanced level should have a slight reduction as well (11 to 8), since currently the baseline PG cost of any kincat is so high that you might as well go for the complex one for the highest return on investment (this isnt how any other gear in the game works except for the old sniper rifle, swarm launcher and nova knife progression).

tl;dr:
Current Shield Extenders Progression: basic: 33/ advanced: 50 (166% of standard value)/ complex: 66 (200% of standard value)

Current KinCat progression: basic: 5%/ advanced: 8% (160% of standard value)/ complex: 12% (240% of standard value)

Proposed KinCat progression: basic 6%/ advanced: 10%(~166% of standard value)/ complex: 12%(200% of standard value)

I think this slight KinCat tier progression rework and reducing basic/advanced pg cost slightly to make basic and advanced tiers more attractive and useful would be a good thing.

How about just buffing thier % in general? 7%, 11%, 15%
just an idea.

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Vesta Opalus T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K RISE of LEGION 430	Posted - 2015.02.18 18:17:00 - [1] - Quote Kinetic Catalyzers seem to be an outlier in terms of tier progression, where the basic > enhanced gets 3% (160% of basic version total effectiveness) boost, and then enhanced > prototype gives you a bigger 4% (240% of basic version's total effectiveness) boost. Generally the system is supposed to be more biased towards using enhanced gear as the most efficient gear, but with the large cost of even basic kinetic catalyzers plus the tier progression in effectiveness, only the complex catalyzer is seen as worth it. Currently KinCat progression is 5%/8%/12%. Making it more along the lines of shield extenders or armor plates, KinCats should be something more along the line of standard: 6%, advanced: 10%, complex: 12%. In addition to this I think the basic should have its PG lowered significantly (from 9 to 5 perhaps), and enhanced level should have a slight reduction as well (11 to 8), since currently the baseline PG cost of any kincat is so high that you might as well go for the complex one for the highest return on investment (this isnt how any other gear in the game works except for the old sniper rifle, swarm launcher and nova knife progression). tl;dr: Current Shield Extenders Progression: basic: 33/ advanced: 50 (166% of standard value)/ complex: 66 (200% of standard value) Current KinCat progression: basic: 5%/ advanced: 8% (160% of standard value)/ complex: 12% (240% of standard value) Proposed KinCat progression: basic 6%/ advanced: 10%(~166% of standard value)/ complex: 12%(200% of standard value) I think this slight KinCat tier progression and reducing basic/advanced pg cost slightly to make basic and advanced tiers more attractive and useful would be a good thing.
duster 35000 Algintal Core Gallente Federation 289	Posted - 2015.02.18 18:37:00 - [2] - Quote Vesta Opalus wrote: Kinetic Catalyzers seem to be an outlier in terms of tier progression, where the basic > enhanced gets 3% (160% of basic version total effectiveness) boost, and then enhanced > prototype gives you a bigger 4% (240% of basic version's total effectiveness) boost. Generally the system is supposed to be more biased towards using enhanced gear as the most efficient gear, but with the large cost of even basic kinetic catalyzers plus the tier progression in effectiveness, only the complex catalyzer is seen as worth it. Currently KinCat progression is 5%/8%/12%. Making it more along the lines of shield extenders or armor plates, KinCats should be something more along the line of standard: 6%, advanced: 10%, complex: 12%. In addition to this I think the basic should have its PG lowered significantly (from 9 to 5 perhaps), and enhanced level should have a slight reduction as well (11 to 8), since currently the baseline PG cost of any kincat is so high that you might as well go for the complex one for the highest return on investment (this isnt how any other gear in the game works except for the old sniper rifle, swarm launcher and nova knife progression). tl;dr: Current Shield Extenders Progression: basic: 33/ advanced: 50 (166% of standard value)/ complex: 66 (200% of standard value) Current KinCat progression: basic: 5%/ advanced: 8% (160% of standard value)/ complex: 12% (240% of standard value) Proposed KinCat progression: basic 6%/ advanced: 10%(~166% of standard value)/ complex: 12%(200% of standard value) I think this slight KinCat tier progression rework and reducing basic/advanced pg cost slightly to make basic and advanced tiers more attractive and useful would be a good thing. How about just buffing thier % in general? 7%, 11%, 15% just an idea. Molestia approved
Vesta Opalus T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K RISE of LEGION 431	Posted - 2015.02.18 18:40:00 - [3] - Quote duster 35000 wrote: Vesta Opalus wrote: Kinetic Catalyzers seem to be an outlier in terms of tier progression, where the basic > enhanced gets 3% (160% of basic version total effectiveness) boost, and then enhanced > prototype gives you a bigger 4% (240% of basic version's total effectiveness) boost. Generally the system is supposed to be more biased towards using enhanced gear as the most efficient gear, but with the large cost of even basic kinetic catalyzers plus the tier progression in effectiveness, only the complex catalyzer is seen as worth it. Currently KinCat progression is 5%/8%/12%. Making it more along the lines of shield extenders or armor plates, KinCats should be something more along the line of standard: 6%, advanced: 10%, complex: 12%. In addition to this I think the basic should have its PG lowered significantly (from 9 to 5 perhaps), and enhanced level should have a slight reduction as well (11 to 8), since currently the baseline PG cost of any kincat is so high that you might as well go for the complex one for the highest return on investment (this isnt how any other gear in the game works except for the old sniper rifle, swarm launcher and nova knife progression). tl;dr: Current Shield Extenders Progression: basic: 33/ advanced: 50 (166% of standard value)/ complex: 66 (200% of standard value) Current KinCat progression: basic: 5%/ advanced: 8% (160% of standard value)/ complex: 12% (240% of standard value) Proposed KinCat progression: basic 6%/ advanced: 10%(~166% of standard value)/ complex: 12%(200% of standard value) I think this slight KinCat tier progression rework and reducing basic/advanced pg cost slightly to make basic and advanced tiers more attractive and useful would be a good thing. How about just buffing thier % in general? 7%, 11%, 15% just an idea. I think the complex KinCat is borderline OP already. The only thing keeping it from being just totally absurd is the massive PG cost on the modules. I think any buff to the prototype kincat would be innapropriate. However as you can see, this rework would result in a direct buff to both basic and advanced kincats. I just dont think complex needs it.
zDemoncake Horizons' Edge 339	Posted - 2015.02.18 18:40:00 - [4] - Quote I can see the point in wanting to keep things consistent. I'm not so much of a number cruncher, but I do strongly agree that the PG requirements should be toned down a wee bit. CEO of Horizons' Edge's mercenary division *My soul, your beats!* Enemy to many; equal to none.
Vesta Opalus T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K RISE of LEGION 431	Posted - 2015.02.18 18:44:00 - [5] - Quote zDemoncake wrote: I can see the point in wanting to keep things consistent. I'm not so much of a number cruncher, but I do strongly agree that the PG requirements should be toned down a wee bit. I wouldnt bother with consistency if I thought the basic/adv kincats were worth it as they were. Its just that the PG costs are so high for both modules and the tier jumps so mediocre that complex is the only one thats worth it. This makes it so basic/adv just feel lame and fitting kincats onto a basic tier dropsuit in particular is a huge sacrifice that doesnt pay out, I dont think that was the intent for these modules.
duster 35000 Algintal Core Gallente Federation 290	Posted - 2015.02.18 18:58:00 - [6] - Quote Vesta Opalus wrote: zDemoncake wrote: I can see the point in wanting to keep things consistent. I'm not so much of a number cruncher, but I do strongly agree that the PG requirements should be toned down a wee bit. I wouldnt bother with consistency if I thought the basic/adv kincats were worth it as they were. Its just that the PG costs are so high for both modules and the tier jumps so mediocre that complex is the only one thats worth it. This makes it so basic/adv just feel lame and fitting kincats onto a basic tier dropsuit in particular is a huge sacrifice that doesnt pay out, I dont think that was the intent for these modules. I only fit kincats on my cal scout, and 1 enhanced just feels weak... Molestia approved
Stefan Stahl Seituoda Taskforce Command 992	Posted - 2015.02.18 19:10:00 - [7] - Quote Vesta Opalus wrote: Proposed KinCat progression: basic 6%/ advanced: 10%(~166% of standard value)/ complex: 12%(200% of standard value) I absolutely agree. We need to stop having modules that are only useful at complex tier.
The Eristic Dust 90210 802	Posted - 2015.02.18 19:35:00 - [8] - Quote Yep, they're go complex or go home, which, on top of their silly high PG costs, gives non-Pro fittings the shaft. Their costs and low % gains are a holdover from when speed had to be capped to try to fix hit detection. It's time to make them more usable. Reality is the original Rorschach. Verily! So much for all that.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 7287	Posted - 2015.02.18 21:41:00 - [9] - Quote CCP is deliberately not allowing suits to go past a certain speed, so Kincats won't go above 12%. Once you hit a certain speed hit detection breaks like a pencil under a fat man's ass. THe old dev team never bothered to fis it for :reasons: I am unaware of. AV
Vesta Opalus T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K RISE of LEGION 434	Posted - 2015.02.18 21:42:00 - [10] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: CCP is deliberately not allowing suits to go past a certain speed, so Kincats won't go above 12%. Once you hit a certain speed hit detection breaks like a pencil under a fat man's ass. THe old dev team never bothered to fis it for :reasons: I am unaware of. Again I think 12% (on complex kincats) is fine. Im more concerned with making enhanced/basic level kincats more attractive/usable, especially on lower tier suits.

Vesta Opalus T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K RISE of LEGION 438	Posted - 2015.02.19 05:41:00 - [11] - Quote Notice me Senpai Final bump before I lapse into antisocialness again for a while.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 6951	Posted - 2015.02.26 18:00:00 - [12] - Quote Makes sense! Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Imp Smash Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 696	Posted - 2015.02.27 01:47:00 - [13] - Quote I think your OP is spot on OPer. They don't need a percent increase, but the lower tiers definitely need better fitting costs.
Zindorak Nyain Chan 1717	Posted - 2015.02.27 02:57:00 - [14] - Quote duster 35000 wrote: Vesta Opalus wrote: Kinetic Catalyzers seem to be an outlier in terms of tier progression, where the basic > enhanced gets 3% (160% of basic version total effectiveness) boost, and then enhanced > prototype gives you a bigger 4% (240% of basic version's total effectiveness) boost. Generally the system is supposed to be more biased towards using enhanced gear as the most efficient gear, but with the large cost of even basic kinetic catalyzers plus the tier progression in effectiveness, only the complex catalyzer is seen as worth it. Currently KinCat progression is 5%/8%/12%. Making it more along the lines of shield extenders or armor plates, KinCats should be something more along the line of standard: 6%, advanced: 10%, complex: 12%. In addition to this I think the basic should have its PG lowered significantly (from 9 to 5 perhaps), and enhanced level should have a slight reduction as well (11 to 8), since currently the baseline PG cost of any kincat is so high that you might as well go for the complex one for the highest return on investment (this isnt how any other gear in the game works except for the old sniper rifle, swarm launcher and nova knife progression). tl;dr: Current Shield Extenders Progression: basic: 33/ advanced: 50 (166% of standard value)/ complex: 66 (200% of standard value) Current KinCat progression: basic: 5%/ advanced: 8% (160% of standard value)/ complex: 12% (240% of standard value) Proposed KinCat progression: basic 6%/ advanced: 10%(~166% of standard value)/ complex: 12%(200% of standard value) I think this slight KinCat tier progression rework and reducing basic/advanced pg cost slightly to make basic and advanced tiers more attractive and useful would be a good thing. How about just buffing thier % in general? 7%, 11%, 15% just an idea. I agree they take up waaaay to much pg then they should for what they give Pokemon master and Tekken Lord Give me da iskiez Gk0 Scout yay :)
WeapondigitX V7 The Exemplars RISE of LEGION 225	Posted - 2015.02.27 08:16:00 - [15] - Quote Agreed, the adv and basic kinetic katalyzers need there fitting costs reduced. They are way too expensive for basic suits to use and the complex mod gives the highest return per CPU and PG which should not be happening in the game.
GJMAD Revamped Six Six Sick 8	Posted - 2015.03.01 21:42:00 - [16] - Quote Bump for agreeing Madness Consumes 73mil Sp
Boot Booter Titans of Phoenix 1207	Posted - 2015.03.21 16:56:00 - [17] - Quote I agree the tier progression should be more subtle but I also think that complex Kincats cost too much PG. I would reduce PG by 2 for the complex ones.
Vesta Opalus T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K 542	Posted - 2015.03.24 16:00:00 - [18] - Quote Seriously guys, seriously.
Finn Colman Immortal Guides Learning Alliance 160	Posted - 2015.03.27 15:40:00 - [19] - Quote Bump Jack-of-most-trades, master of one.
One Eyed King Nos Nothi 8849	Posted - 2015.03.27 17:24:00 - [20] - Quote I ran a comparison between KinCats, Armor Plates, and Shield Extenders in terms of fitting costs, and its quite ludicrous how they compare, especially at lower levels. At basic: CPU PG SEs 18 3 APs 9 3 KCs 15 9 APs are WAY too cheap IMO in comparison (+250% HP of SEs) at half the CPU. The KCs on the other hand offer a negligible speed increase, while costing near as much CPU as the SEs, and having 3x the PG cost. If you look across all basic modules, no others have the same insanely high cost at a low level for such little benefit. Adv and Proto tiers even out some in terms of the costs, but the benefits provided by both SE and AP are significantly more effective at survival. While I would like to see KCs reduced a bit in cost, I kind of like how I have to make sacrifices to fit them, and I think the problem is that this is lacking with the HP modules. I would honestly rather see APs and SEs increased in cost, particularly in PG, rather than too significant a reduction in KCs. I think merely reducing KC costs would only encourage AP usage as KCs could be more easily fit to negate AP speed penalties. Former CEO of the Land of the BIind. Any double entendre is unintended I assure you.



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Pokemon master and Tekken Lord

Give me da iskiez

Gk0 Scout yay :)