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Cody Sietz
Random Gunz
RISE of LEGION
4387
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Posted - 2015.02.14 19:20:00 -
[1] - Quote
pretty simple and I'm sure it's mentioned quite a bit, but I think adding some additional bonuses would really help the suits out.
Caldari
5 percent per level to extenders
2 percent to regulators per level
3 percent to recharges per level
Or
3 percent per level to extenders
4 percent to regulators per level
3 percent to recharges per level
It really sucks that a Cal assault is better off using a ScR over a RR at this point(though I think that's more cause the ScR is over performing, but that's neither here nor there) but I honestly have no idea how to buff the weapon without making it OP.
Gallente
3 percent to repair mods per level
3 percent to FS plates per level
3 percent to reactive plates per level and or a 1 percent boost to reactive plate repair.
Again, not sure how to buff the AR without making it OP. I think it all comes down to most weapons performing outside their intended roles, but again, that's not for here to discuss.
"I do agree with you there though. shudders"
-Arkena Wyrnspire
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DeadlyAztec11
Ostrakon Agency
7462
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Posted - 2015.02.14 19:34:00 -
[2] - Quote
The AR should do 2x Damage from 0-5m, 1.5x damage from zero to ten meters, and 1.2x damage from zero to twenty meters.
Put your flags up in the sky.
And wave them side to side.
Show the world where you're from.
Show the world we are one.
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Cody Sietz
Random Gunz
RISE of LEGION
4387
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Posted - 2015.02.14 19:35:00 -
[3] - Quote
DeadlyAztec11 wrote:The AR should do 2x Damage from 0-5m, 1.5x damage from zero to ten meters, and 1.2x damage from zero to twenty meters.
I...never though about that...
IT WOULD FIX THE WEAPON SO MUCH!
"I do agree with you there though. shudders"
-Arkena Wyrnspire
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tritan abbattere
DBAG CORE
43
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Posted - 2015.02.14 19:48:00 -
[4] - Quote
DeadlyAztec11 wrote:The AR should do 2x Damage from 0-5m, 1.5x damage from zero to ten meters, and 1.2x damage from zero to twenty meters.
I like this idea But I feel then the range drop off should happen sooner if this is added. This dose fit the gallente very well though as there up in your face CQC combat kinda Combat.
I am the all mighty Tritan. Fear me for I am a MassHole
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Atiim
Titans of Phoenix
15631
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Posted - 2015.02.14 19:48:00 -
[5] - Quote
No, as the other Assaults don't receive bonuses that make them stronger.
The 1st Matari Commando
-HAND
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Atiim
Titans of Phoenix
15631
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Posted - 2015.02.14 19:51:00 -
[6] - Quote
Cody Sietz wrote:DeadlyAztec11 wrote:The AR should do 2x Damage from 0-5m, 1.5x damage from zero to ten meters, and 1.2x damage from zero to twenty meters. I...never though about that... IT WOULD FIX THE WEAPON SO MUCH!
How does making the AR better than the NK, Shotgun, and HMG fix the weapon?
The 1st Matari Commando
-HAND
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DeadlyAztec11
Ostrakon Agency
7462
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Posted - 2015.02.14 20:02:00 -
[7] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Cody Sietz wrote:DeadlyAztec11 wrote:The AR should do 2x Damage from 0-5m, 1.5x damage from zero to ten meters, and 1.2x damage from zero to twenty meters. I...never though about that... IT WOULD FIX THE WEAPON SO MUCH! How does making the AR better than the NK, Shotgun, and HMG fix the weapon?
So you think that making the gun better at 15m isn't good?
The AR is suppose to be great at CQC but is just mediocre. This would help make it good at CQC.
Put your flags up in the sky.
And wave them side to side.
Show the world where you're from.
Show the world we are one.
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Atiim
Titans of Phoenix
15631
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Posted - 2015.02.14 20:15:00 -
[8] - Quote
DeadlyAztec11 wrote:Atiim wrote:Cody Sietz wrote:DeadlyAztec11 wrote:The AR should do 2x Damage from 0-5m, 1.5x damage from zero to ten meters, and 1.2x damage from zero to twenty meters. I...never though about that... IT WOULD FIX THE WEAPON SO MUCH! How does making the AR better than the NK, Shotgun, and HMG fix the weapon? So you think that making the gun better at 15m isn't good? The AR is suppose to be great at CQC but is just mediocre. This would help make it good at CQC.
Is the Assault Rifle mediocre or is your ability to use with the AR mediocre?
Against Shields nothing but the Scrambler Rifle (and the weapons listed in my previous post) kills a target faster than the AR in CQC, the only time it's surpassed is when fighting Armor bricks, which the AR is supposed to be weak against anyways.
The 1st Matari Commando
-HAND
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Aeon Amadi
Chimera Core
8718
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Posted - 2015.02.14 21:02:00 -
[9] - Quote
Atiim wrote:DeadlyAztec11 wrote:Atiim wrote:Cody Sietz wrote:DeadlyAztec11 wrote:The AR should do 2x Damage from 0-5m, 1.5x damage from zero to ten meters, and 1.2x damage from zero to twenty meters. I...never though about that... IT WOULD FIX THE WEAPON SO MUCH! How does making the AR better than the NK, Shotgun, and HMG fix the weapon? So you think that making the gun better at 15m isn't good? The AR is suppose to be great at CQC but is just mediocre. This would help make it good at CQC. Is the Assault Rifle mediocre or is your ability to use with the AR mediocre? Against Shields nothing but the Scrambler Rifle (and the weapons listed in my previous post) kills a target faster than the AR in CQC, the only time it's surpassed is when fighting Armor bricks, which the AR is supposed to be weak against anyways.
Haaaave you met my friend Ad Hominem? Also, conjecture.
Have a suggestion for the Planetary Services Department?
Founder of AIV
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Buwaro Draemon
WarRavens
Capital Punishment.
1020
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Posted - 2015.02.14 21:09:00 -
[10] - Quote
Atiim wrote:DeadlyAztec11 wrote:Atiim wrote:Cody Sietz wrote:DeadlyAztec11 wrote:The AR should do 2x Damage from 0-5m, 1.5x damage from zero to ten meters, and 1.2x damage from zero to twenty meters. I...never though about that... IT WOULD FIX THE WEAPON SO MUCH! How does making the AR better than the NK, Shotgun, and HMG fix the weapon? So you think that making the gun better at 15m isn't good? The AR is suppose to be great at CQC but is just mediocre. This would help make it good at CQC. Is the Assault Rifle mediocre or is your ability to use with the AR mediocre? Against Shields nothing but the Scrambler Rifle (and the weapons listed in my previous post) kills a target faster than the AR in CQC, the only time it's surpassed is when fighting Armor bricks, which the AR is supposed to be weak against anyways.
The AR is outperformed by the ARR and the ACR/CR at its supposed king range.
Especially if you run a MinAss with an ACR, which is easy mode and you own everything with little effort.
A damage boost multiplier on the AR in its range won't make it OP and will finally make it the CQC king it has been said to be.
Changes to Damage mods!
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Cody Sietz
Random Gunz
RISE of LEGION
4387
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Posted - 2015.02.14 21:51:00 -
[11] - Quote
Atiim wrote:DeadlyAztec11 wrote:Atiim wrote:Cody Sietz wrote:DeadlyAztec11 wrote:The AR should do 2x Damage from 0-5m, 1.5x damage from zero to ten meters, and 1.2x damage from zero to twenty meters. I...never though about that... IT WOULD FIX THE WEAPON SO MUCH! How does making the AR better than the NK, Shotgun, and HMG fix the weapon? So you think that making the gun better at 15m isn't good? The AR is suppose to be great at CQC but is just mediocre. This would help make it good at CQC. Is the Assault Rifle mediocre or is your ability to use with the AR mediocre? Against Shields nothing but the Scrambler Rifle (and the weapons listed in my previous post) kills a target faster than the AR in CQC, the only time it's surpassed is when fighting Armor bricks, which the AR is supposed to be weak against anyways.
So the SCR should be dropping targets faster under 40 meters?
The AR shares in optimal with a lot of weapons that out class it(including other rifles which all have longer ranges) why should it not it not be the best rifle under 40 meters?
"I do agree with you there though. shudders"
-Arkena Wyrnspire
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Cody Sietz
Random Gunz
RISE of LEGION
4387
|
Posted - 2015.02.14 21:53:00 -
[12] - Quote
Atiim wrote:No, as the other Assaults don't receive bonuses that make them stronger.
Then what? Make the other assaults bonuses worst so they fit with the Cal/Gal?
"I do agree with you there though. shudders"
-Arkena Wyrnspire
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Arkena Wyrnspire
Fatal Absolution
22174
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Posted - 2015.02.14 22:40:00 -
[13] - Quote
Atiim wrote:No, as the other Assaults don't receive bonuses that make them stronger.
moobius 2013 never forget
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Atiim
Titans of Phoenix
15635
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Posted - 2015.02.14 22:59:00 -
[14] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:
Haaaave you met my friend Ad Hominem? Also, conjecture.
Yes I have, however looking at my assertions, which are:
1. No weapon besides the SCR and the ones listed in my previous post kill Shield Tanks faster than the Assault Rifle in CQC
2. It's only surpassed [in CQC] when the AR is pitted against Armored Targets (or by weapons previously listed).
3. Assault Rifles are supposed to be weak against Armored Targets.
They're all facts which are easily proven with in-game tests, statistics, and in the case of #3 information already supplied to us by CCP, therefore not conjecture.
Cody Sietz wrote:
Then what? Make the other assaults bonuses worst so they fit with the Cal/Gal?
No, give the Cal/Gal bonuses which fit with the Min/Am, which would be bonuses that improve their weapon's abilities while in an engagement (that don't involve DPS increases).
Stronger probably wasn't the proper term, I meant to say that the other Assaults don't receive bonuses that increase their potential health or regen, and as such the Cal/Gal shouldn't receive them either.
The 1st Matari Commando
-HAND
|
Aeon Amadi
Chimera Core
8725
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Posted - 2015.02.14 23:11:00 -
[15] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:
Haaaave you met my friend Ad Hominem? Also, conjecture.
Yes I have, however looking at my assertions, which are: 1. No weapon besides the SCR and the ones listed in my previous post kill Shield Tanks faster than the Assault Rifle in CQC 2. It's only surpassed [in CQC] when the AR is pitted against Armored Targets (or by weapons previously listed). 3. Assault Rifles are supposed to be weak against Armored Targets. They're all facts which are easily proven with in-game tests, statistics, and in the case of #3 information already supplied to us by CCP, therefore not conjecture. Cody Sietz wrote:
Then what? Make the other assaults bonuses worst so they fit with the Cal/Gal?
No, give the Cal/Gal bonuses which fit with the Min/Am, which would be bonuses that improve their weapon's abilities while in an engagement (that don't involve DPS increases). Stronger probably wasn't the proper term, I meant to say that the other Assaults don't receive bonuses that increase their potential health or regen, and as such the Cal/Gal shouldn't receive them either.
The Assault Rifle has comparable DPS values to other Assault Variants, in fact, the gap in DPS between the AR (highest damage) and the ARR (highest range) is only about 33 DPS, base. Compare that to the fact that the ARR has 30m extra of range, and you're experiencing a 66 DPS fall-off after just 10m with the AR, the ARR already out-classes it in the DPS department even within it's effective range.
To say that "no weapon besides the SCR kill shield tanks faster than the AR in CQC" is only partially true, because - again - the DPS values are so similar that the TTK differences are fractions of a second. It's not worth simply having more range to counter the effects of the damage fall-off for such a measly amount of DPS increase in CQC and if we're to believe that the "armor meta" has so much of an impact, shield tankers are going to die regardless, because the belief is that Armor has such high buffer compared to shields that it doesn't matter what you use against shields - even weapons that are designed for Armor are still going to kill them just as efficiently.
You can't argue that the Armor Meta is over-powering in one hand and than say that the AR is the king shield-murder in the other without also stating that the AR would inherently be weak against Armor - even in CQC - as a result.
But moving on to your comments about the Assault bonuses bit (the entire point of this thread) we now have an Appeal to Tradition, which is to say that if "Because EVE Online" isn't a good argument for why something should be then "The other Assaults don't" shouldn't either. Do you also believe that Amarr Logistics should not have a sidearm because none of the other Logistics do?
Have a suggestion for the Planetary Services Department?
Founder of AIV
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Atiim
Titans of Phoenix
15636
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Posted - 2015.02.14 23:13:00 -
[16] - Quote
Cody Sietz wrote:[So the SCR should be dropping targets faster under 40 meters?
The AR shares in optimal with a lot of weapons that out class it(including other rifles which all have longer ranges) why should it not it not be the best rifle under 40 meters?
I never said that the Scrambler Rifle should be dropping targets faster under 40m (even though the AR's optimal is actually 50m, as proven by Musta Tornius's range tests), all I stated was that it does kill Shield Targets faster.
Another thing I never claimed was that it shouldn't be the best rifle within it's niche, however making it the better version of the HMG, SG, and NK (which giving it 900 DPS at 5m, and 680 DPS at 20m will do) won't do anything but make the Assault Rifle overpowered.
The 1st Matari Commando
-HAND
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DeadlyAztec11
Ostrakon Agency
7464
|
Posted - 2015.02.14 23:31:00 -
[17] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Cody Sietz wrote:[So the SCR should be dropping targets faster under 40 meters?
The AR shares in optimal with a lot of weapons that out class it(including other rifles which all have longer ranges) why should it not it not be the best rifle under 40 meters? I never said that the Scrambler Rifle should be dropping targets faster under 40m (even though the AR's optimal is actually 50m, as proven by Musta Tornius's range tests), all I stated was that it does kill Shield Targets faster. Another thing I never claimed was that it shouldn't be the best rifle within it's niche, however making it the better version of the HMG, SG, and NK (which giving it 900 DPS at 5m, and 680 DPS at 20m will do) won't do anything but make the Assault Rifle overpowered.
It won't make it OP though if its range is reduced. The Shotgun and Nova Knives can one hit kill suits while the AR cannot and the HMG has a much larger magazine than the AR.
Put your flags up in the sky.
And wave them side to side.
Show the world where you're from.
Show the world we are one.
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Arkena Wyrnspire
Fatal Absolution
22177
|
Posted - 2015.02.14 23:44:00 -
[18] - Quote
Atiim wrote:I never said that the Scrambler Rifle should be dropping targets faster under 40m (even though the AR's optimal is actually 50m, as proven by Musta Tornius's range tests), all I stated was that it does kill Shield Targets faster.
Musta's range table is a year out of date. There have been range changes since then. Range no longer varies between tiers, for instance. The in game optimal is definitely not 50m.
Quote:
Another thing I never claimed was that it shouldn't be the best rifle within it's niche, however making it the better version of the HMG, SG, and NK (which giving it 900 DPS at 5m, and 680 DPS at 20m will do) won't do anything but make the Assault Rifle overpowered.
Aztec's suggestion was ludicrously over the top. However, the principle behind it is sound.
Let me quote you something.
Atiim wrote:DeadlyAztec11 wrote:
The AR is suppose to be great at CQC but is just mediocre. This would help make it good at CQC.
Is the Assault Rifle mediocre or is your ability to use with the AR mediocre? Against Shields nothing but the Scrambler Rifle (and the weapons listed in my previous post) kills a target faster than the AR in CQC, the only time it's surpassed is when fighting Armor bricks, which the AR is supposed to be weak against anyways.
Not only does your post resort to ad hominem, but it also leads to conjecture. Saying 'Against Shields nothing but the Scrambler Rifle kills a target faster than the AR in CQC' strongly suggests that the AR has a notable advantage over others in its class.
It does not.
Look at the DPS numbers for the rifles. The difference between the automatics is, at maximum, 10%. The range difference between the automatics approaches 100%.
This is, obviously, a very significant range difference. Is it then so much to suggest that such a significant range sacrifice should lead to a genuinely noticeable advantage elsewhere?
Ultimately, the AR is only mediocre in CQC, especially if you consider the satanic levels of DPS the HMG spits out - almost twice what the AR does - despite being in a very similar range bracket.
moobius 2013 never forget
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Soul Cairn
Fatal Absolution
29
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Posted - 2015.02.14 23:55:00 -
[19] - Quote
The Cal Assault already has a reliable shield tank, so I don't think it needs a buff of any kind. My preferred bonus for the suit would be:
Reduction to Kick per level
or
Reduction to Charge Time per level
Born Ammatar, Caldari at heart.
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Arkena Wyrnspire
Fatal Absolution
22177
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Posted - 2015.02.14 23:58:00 -
[20] - Quote
Soul Cairn wrote:The Cal Assault already has a reliable shield tank, so I don't think it needs a buff of any kind. My preferred bonus for the suit would be:
Reduction to Kick per level
or
Reduction to Charge Time per level
For Hybrid Rails of course.
Agreed.
It seems more difficult to find a consensus on the Galassault.
moobius 2013 never forget
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Soul Cairn
Fatal Absolution
31
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Posted - 2015.02.15 00:07:00 -
[21] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:Soul Cairn wrote:The Cal Assault already has a reliable shield tank, so I don't think it needs a buff of any kind. My preferred bonus for the suit would be:
Reduction to Kick per level
or
Reduction to Charge Time per level
For Hybrid Rails of course. Agreed. It seems more difficult to find a consensus on the Galassault.
The assault bonus should make up for the weakness of it's weapon just like the other assaults. The PR doesn't really has kick issues with the exception of the Burst and the Tactical. However, I'd say that the recoil is still quite manageable.
I only dabble with the Gal but I think the bonus should be related to the range of Hybrid Blasters.
Born Ammatar, Caldari at heart.
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Arkena Wyrnspire
Fatal Absolution
22177
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Posted - 2015.02.15 00:09:00 -
[22] - Quote
I had suggested range previously. It didn't really gain much momentum as a suggestion, although by that logic you are suggesting (the same logic I followed) it seems fairly obvious.
moobius 2013 never forget
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Soul Cairn
Fatal Absolution
31
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Posted - 2015.02.15 00:14:00 -
[23] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:I had suggested range previously. It didn't really gain much momentum as a suggestion, although by that logic you are suggesting (the same logic I followed) it seems fairly obvious.
It is really the only thing that makes sense while being in line with the other suits. I'm not fond of a straight damage bonus so that is out. Would you prefer a reload reduction instead?
Born Ammatar, Caldari at heart.
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Arkena Wyrnspire
Fatal Absolution
22177
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Posted - 2015.02.15 00:17:00 -
[24] - Quote
Reload reduction would also be genuinely useful on the Galassault, yes.
So range or reload are suggestions, then.
moobius 2013 never forget
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Nocturnal Soul
Primordial Threat
5368
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Posted - 2015.02.15 00:21:00 -
[25] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:Reload reduction would also be genuinely useful on the Galassault, yes.
So range or reload are suggestions, then.
I would go with an optimal range increase paired with their current bonus just less.
(Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.pâ+n+ín+ƒ.
LASERS BTCH!!!!!!
The Incursions are back... and they're golden baby!
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Arkena Wyrnspire
Fatal Absolution
22179
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Posted - 2015.02.15 00:22:00 -
[26] - Quote
I would note that a 25% range bonus would barely take ARs up to CR ranges.
Not sure about bothering keeping the current bonus, Noc. It just doesn't really do anything.
moobius 2013 never forget
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Soul Cairn
Fatal Absolution
31
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Posted - 2015.02.15 00:23:00 -
[27] - Quote
It would be cool if we could get Rattati's input on this. I know he plays Gallente far more than I do.
Born Ammatar, Caldari at heart.
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Arkena Wyrnspire
Fatal Absolution
22179
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Posted - 2015.02.15 00:25:00 -
[28] - Quote
I'm fairly sure Rattati was considering a Calassault bonus change but I'm not sure about the Galassault bonus.
moobius 2013 never forget
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Nocturnal Soul
Primordial Threat
5368
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Posted - 2015.02.15 00:28:00 -
[29] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:I would note that a 25% range bonus would barely take ARs up to CR ranges.
Not sure about bothering keeping the current bonus, Noc. It just doesn't really do anything.
I don't play gallente....anything, so I'm just going off what the crowd says but I wouldn't mind it getting a bonus increasing it's optimal to 60.
(Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.pâ+n+ín+ƒ.
LASERS BTCH!!!!!!
The Incursions are back... and they're golden baby!
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Soul Cairn
Fatal Absolution
31
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Posted - 2015.02.15 02:49:00 -
[30] - Quote
bump
Born Ammatar, Caldari at heart.
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