DUST Search - Ideas on the Cal/Gal assault bonus

Sgt Kirk wrote:

insane fate wrote:

Soul Cairn wrote:

Alena Ventrallis wrote:

CalAssault should be recoil reduction for the RR. That much is certain.

The GalAss bonus... Really, is there an area where the PR doesn't perform well?

It has bad range, which is why an optimal range bonus is the only one that makes sense to match the other assaults.

No what matches it would be a stronger dispersion reduction as i said before.

I completely disagree with negating a weapons main weakness with bonuses.

Weaknesses are what's supposed to make this game what it is, there are no "absolute" fits.

If you give the Plasma Rifle (excluding TAR which needs adjustments in other places) more range than it has now you will be kicking it well into OP territory. The Bonus should be something that makes the weapon excel in something that it's already good at or dampen a secondary drawback of the weapon but not a primary drawback.

These weakness compensation bonuses are exactly why the Combat Rifle is OP on the Minmatar assault in the first place.

The Primary drawback, and might I say the only drawback of the Combat Rifle is the low mag.
It has high RoF
It cost less CPU/PG than even some sidearms
It can competitively perform at most common ranges of engagements

Without the bonus it's a pretty damn good weapon, it can challenge even the Plasma Rifle in CQC with its tremendous RoF but the drawback is that he has to land damn near every shot.

But with the Minmatar Assault Bonus we don't have that issue, just spam as much to your hearts content knowing that there are no downsides to the weapon you're wielding right now.

On anything other than on a Minmatar Assault and Commando do you really see yourself overwhelmed by the CR?
Most likely no, the Minmatar Commando gets a pass because that's doing exactly what the suit was designed to do and has the proper drawbacks of its advantage.

Then of course we get into the issue of the Minmatar Assault in itself but that's a discussion for a different thread.

I got enemies, got a lot of enemies , got a lot of people tryna drain me of this energy

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Alena Ventrallis Intara Direct Action Caldari State 2551	Posted - 2015.02.21 19:22:00 - [61] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: CalAssault should be recoil reduction for the RR. That much is certain. The GalAss bonus... Really, is there an area where the PR doesn't perform well? It actually has the second slowest reload time after the RR. SCR - 2.5s CR - 2.6s AR - 3s RR - 3.2s Hmm... perthaps a bonus to reload? It makes sense; if you run dry in CQC, getting another magazine loaded would be paramount. I would also argue to keep the dispersion bonus while losing the recoil bonus to the CalAss, to help with hipfire at range like Aeon describes. Listen to my muscle memory Contemplate what I've been clinging to Forty-six and two ahead of me
insane fate Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic 8	Posted - 2015.02.21 21:16:00 - [62] - Quote Soul Cairn wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: CalAssault should be recoil reduction for the RR. That much is certain. The GalAss bonus... Really, is there an area where the PR doesn't perform well? It has bad range, which is why an optimal range bonus is the only one that makes sense to match the other assaults. No what matches it would be a stronger dispersion reduction as i said before.
Soul Cairn Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 48	Posted - 2015.02.21 22:49:00 - [63] - Quote insane fate wrote: Soul Cairn wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: CalAssault should be recoil reduction for the RR. That much is certain. The GalAss bonus... Really, is there an area where the PR doesn't perform well? It has bad range, which is why an optimal range bonus is the only one that makes sense to match the other assaults. No what matches it would be a stronger dispersion reduction as i said before. It doesn't make sense for a greater dispersion reduction when with sharpshooter 5 there is hardly any. You're trying to give up greater engagement range or 1v1 survivability for something that is unnecessary. Don't be fooled, I'm Caldari Vehicular Specialist I need to play more often...
Aeon Amadi Chimera Core 8817	Posted - 2015.02.21 23:32:00 - [64] - Quote Best Gallente Assault bonus imo, bar increased true damage, would be 10% increased fall-off damage per level. You lose an insane amount of DPS outside optimal (66 DPS loss at 10m beyond) so lessening the severity of that is a good bonus in my book and isn't so far out of the norm if we're seriously considering reduced recoil for the Rail Rifle/ARR. Consider that an ARR has 30m longer optimal range than the AR but 33 less DPS. The AR loses twice that at just 10m beyond it's optimal range and all of a sudden the ARR is out-performing it. 10m isn't very far at all, so I think that a 50% increased fall-off damage would match their DPS values so that the AR actually has a fighting chance at those moderate distances while the ARR still out-performs it a longer ranges like it's supposed to. EDIT: Dispersion is a terrible bonus because some of us genuinely like having higher dispersion in CQC as it takes a little bit of the pressure off of being as accurate. Dispersion should be something that's controlled by the weapon and the mod, not a permanent skill application. Have a suggestion for the Planetary Services Department? *Founder of AIV*
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution 9644	Posted - 2015.02.21 23:34:00 - [65] - Quote insane fate wrote: Soul Cairn wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: CalAssault should be recoil reduction for the RR. That much is certain. The GalAss bonus... Really, is there an area where the PR doesn't perform well? It has bad range, which is why an optimal range bonus is the only one that makes sense to match the other assaults. No what matches it would be a stronger dispersion reduction as i said before. I completely disagree with negating a weapons main weakness with bonuses. Weaknesses are what's supposed to make this game what it is, there are no "absolute" fits. If you give the Plasma Rifle (excluding TAR which needs adjustments in other places) more range than it has now you will be kicking it well into OP territory. The Bonus should be something that makes the weapon excel in something that it's already good at or dampen a secondary drawback of the weapon but not a primary drawback. These weakness compensation bonuses are exactly why the Combat Rifle is OP on the Minmatar assault in the first place. The Primary drawback, and might I say the only drawback of the Combat Rifle is the low mag. It has high RoF It cost less CPU/PG than even some sidearms It can competitively perform at most common ranges of engagements Without the bonus it's a pretty damn good weapon, it can challenge even the Plasma Rifle in CQC with its tremendous RoF but the drawback is that he has to land damn near every shot. But with the Minmatar Assault Bonus we don't have that issue, just spam as much to your hearts content knowing that there are no downsides to the weapon you're wielding right now. On anything other than on a Minmatar Assault and Commando do you really see yourself overwhelmed by the CR? Most likely no, the Minmatar Commando gets a pass because that's doing exactly what the suit was designed to do and has the proper drawbacks of its advantage. Then of course we get into the issue of the Minmatar Assault in itself but that's a discussion for a different thread. *As long as 4/5 (80%) of infantry AV weapons are Anti Armor based you're never going to achieve vehicle balance CCP*
Soul Cairn Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 62	Posted - 2015.02.24 05:10:00 - [66] - Quote bump Don't be fooled, I'm Caldari Vehicular Specialist I need to play more often...
Soul Cairn Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 62	Posted - 2015.02.25 05:43:00 - [67] - Quote grandmaster bump Don't be fooled, I'm Caldari Vehicular Specialist Grandmaster Bump
Heimdallr69 Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 4711	Posted - 2015.02.25 17:53:00 - [68] - Quote Cal ass needs a DMG bonus. Right now I don't run mine as often cuz I can make a Better gal ass fit with 3 DMG mods on my ARR, I can make good cal ass fits but the lack of DMG is why I don't use it.. If I could put 2-3 DMG mods without sacrificing my fit then it'd be in a good place.. Though the DMG bonus takes away from the mando so idk.. Removed inappropriate content - CCP Logibro
Piercing Serenity PFB Pink Fluffy Bunnies 850	Posted - 2015.02.25 19:12:00 - [69] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: insane fate wrote: Soul Cairn wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: CalAssault should be recoil reduction for the RR. That much is certain. The GalAss bonus... Really, is there an area where the PR doesn't perform well? It has bad range, which is why an optimal range bonus is the only one that makes sense to match the other assaults. No what matches it would be a stronger dispersion reduction as i said before. I completely disagree with negating a weapons main weakness with bonuses. Weaknesses are what's supposed to make this game what it is, there are no "absolute" fits. If you give the Plasma Rifle (excluding TAR which needs adjustments in other places) more range than it has now you will be kicking it well into OP territory. The Bonus should be something that makes the weapon excel in something that it's already good at or dampen a secondary drawback of the weapon but not a primary drawback. These weakness compensation bonuses are exactly why the Combat Rifle is OP on the Minmatar assault in the first place. The Primary drawback, and might I say the only drawback of the Combat Rifle is the low mag. It has high RoF It cost less CPU/PG than even some sidearms It can competitively perform at most common ranges of engagements Without the bonus it's a pretty damn good weapon, it can challenge even the Plasma Rifle in CQC with its tremendous RoF but the drawback is that he has to land damn near every shot. But with the Minmatar Assault Bonus we don't have that issue, just spam as much to your hearts content knowing that there are no downsides to the weapon you're wielding right now. On anything other than on a Minmatar Assault and Commando do you really see yourself overwhelmed by the CR? Most likely no, the Minmatar Commando gets a pass because that's doing exactly what the suit was designed to do and has the proper drawbacks of its advantage. Then of course we get into the issue of the Minmatar Assault in itself but that's a discussion for a different thread. Would you be willing to make the same argument against the Amarr Ass + ScR? I'm not trying to derail this thread. I think that the "bonus philosophy" is an important part of this discussion. The two competing ideologies are: Suit bonuses should compensate for weapon weakness Suit bonuses should enhance weapon strengths (Min-Maxing) Personally, I'm okay with suits balancing out the shortfalls of a weapon. If you'd like to include a "jam" mechanic for weapons that autofire too long or something, that might be an additional drawback to consider (in a different thread). I'd also be interested in having different races follow different ideologies - Cal/Amarr go for Min-Maxing while Gal/Min go for compensation. What do you think? I got enemies, got a lot of enemies , got a lot of people tryna drain me of this energy
Soul Cairn Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 71	Posted - 2015.02.27 03:23:00 - [70] - Quote bump Don't be fooled, I'm Caldari Vehicular Specialist Grandmaster Bump

Ghost Kaisar Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 9958	Posted - 2015.02.27 04:21:00 - [71] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Atiim wrote: DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Atiim wrote: Cody Sietz wrote: I...never though about that... IT WOULD FIX THE WEAPON SO MUCH! How does making the AR better than the NK, Shotgun, and HMG fix the weapon? So you think that making the gun better at 15m isn't good? The AR is suppose to be great at CQC but is just mediocre. This would help make it good at CQC. Is the Assault Rifle mediocre or is your ability to use with the AR mediocre? Against Shields nothing but the Scrambler Rifle (and the weapons listed in my previous post) kills a target faster than the AR in CQC, the only time it's surpassed is when fighting Armor bricks, which the AR is supposed to be weak against anyways. Haaaave you met my friend Ad Hominem? Also, conjecture. This posts needs more likes. Cheeky. I like it. Born Deteis Caldari. Rejected by my Kinsman. Found a new family in the Vherokior Tribe. Nobody messes with my family
gustavo acosta Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 958	Posted - 2015.02.27 05:01:00 - [72] - Quote Ghost Kaisar wrote: This posts needs more likes. Cheeky. I like it. I want to like it but I can't find it. GimmeDatSuhWeet isk We found a new pope to teach shield users how to shield tank, all hail pope redblood the 6th
Cody Sietz Random Gunz RISE of LEGION 4409	Posted - 2015.02.27 05:21:00 - [73] - Quote gustavo acosta wrote: Ghost Kaisar wrote: This posts needs more likes. Cheeky. I like it. I want to like it but I can't find it. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2628442#post2628442 Here Ya go "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
Alena Ventrallis Intara Direct Action Caldari State 2567	Posted - 2015.02.27 05:35:00 - [74] - Quote Assault bonuses are supposed to shore up the rifle's weaknesses. Look at the AmAssault which has been the standard by which we measure the other Assault suit bonuses since Uprising. First, we need to identify the rifle's weaknesses. Scrambler: heat Combat rifle: low mag for ROF Rail rifle: recoil Plasma rifle: ??? The Amassault lowers heat buildup, so that is working beautifully. MinAssault increases CR mag so that you don't drain a mag in the blink of an eye. Now, CalAss should reduce the recoil of the RR (both hipfire and ADS) so that they can be fired longer before having to stop firing because the recoil got too high to handle. Now for GalAss, I think dispersion is a good start, because that allows them to fire from the hip more accurately, meaning they apply their damage more easily in CQC. Listen to my muscle memory Contemplate what I've been clinging to Forty-six and two ahead of me
Cody Sietz Random Gunz RISE of LEGION 4410	Posted - 2015.02.27 06:41:00 - [75] - Quote Range. "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 9695	Posted - 2015.02.27 07:55:00 - [76] - Quote Range would make the AR OP just at the Mag size increase is the reason the Combat Rifle is OP on Min Assaults. The only buff that gets rid of a weakness and it isn't worthless or making the weapon OP is the Amarr Assault Bonus because it has more drawbacks than just the heat buildup. RoF increase might be a good way to go. *As long as 4/5 (80%) of infantry AV weapons are Anti Armor based you're never going to achieve vehicle balance CCP*
Shamarskii Simon The Hundred Acre Hood RISE of LEGION 145	Posted - 2015.02.27 11:40:00 - [77] - Quote How about two? Calass: [keep reload] + 3/4% reduction to A.D.S kick per level. The reason why I say no to charge is: ARR will charge too quick, RR will charge Like An ARR, too. Bolt pistols get a DPS buff, etc. Basically, calass becomes close to over powered. As for the gal.... I have no idea (never uses gal assault) Entering the void and becoming wind. Message for 1v1 air to air
Cody Sietz Random Gunz RISE of LEGION 4425	Posted - 2015.03.12 16:04:00 - [78] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: Range would make the AR OP just at the Mag size increase is the reason the Combat Rifle is OP on Min Assaults. The only buff that gets rid of a weakness and it isn't worthless or making the weapon OP is the Amarr Assault Bonus because it has more drawbacks than just the heat buildup. RoF increase might be a good way to go. Wait, what other draw back does the ScR have? I agree that range would make the AR OP, but it just seems weird that it gets the hardest counter with no suit to combat that. "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire


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