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Cat Merc Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 14913	Posted - 2015.02.05 19:35:00 - [1] - Quote AURLords 1.0 The Warbarge, why people dislike it, and how to improve on it. Written by the Cat Overlord With thanks for Pokey for motivating me to do so The Warbarge, the focus feature of Warlords 1.0. It was supposed to be what gave the vets a new goal to achieve after getting all of their suits, weapons and other gear maxed out. It was supposed to help fix PC. It was supposed to help new players with features like the ISK generator and SP generator. Overall it was supposed to have something for everybody, and it was supposed to make DUST 514 more fun for everyone. Come Warlords 1.0, and people are complaining. Why? Explaining this to CCP is the purpose of this thread. [Aurum] - Is it really the core issue? A lot of people cry foul about the Warbarge monetization, and I can see their issue with it. It feels like if someone can just buy what you worked for for months, it cheapens your work, makes your path to your goal feel moot. And while I can understand this feeling, admittedly I am affected by it too, I can also understand that we canGÇÖt get everything we want. The devs are people, they need to be paid a salary so they can feed their family and pay the bills and the only way that can be done is if they make a profitable game. If the only problem is a GÇ£feelingGÇ¥, then it can be looked over, somewhat. (Just note to devs: try to be smart and avoid it in the future. You are dealing with humans, beings that arenGÇÖt always rational.) The other complaint is that it unlocks an in game bonus, the 5% extra damage, behind either a timer that can last months (from initial reports), or behind a paywall. The thing is, we have had this already, itGÇÖs called skill points and skill boosters. We can increase our damage, HP, speed, stamina, a lot of things, and people who buy boosters can do it faster. So what is the issue then? [Farmville 514 1.0] - Where is the gameplay? I feel like the core issue is the lack of a goal you can -ACHIEVE- through gameplay. The current mechanics are reminiscent of a F2P mobile or Facebook game (e.g Farmville), where you simply wait to get things, or you pay to get it faster. There is no actual GÇ£gameplayGÇ¥ or GÇ£challengeGÇ¥, itGÇÖs just click and wait for a timer to pass so you can collect your GÇ£rewardGÇ¥. That reward usually involves a way to collect said reward faster, which in turn allows you to collect the reward even faster, repeat ad infinitum. The current Warbarge works pretty much like this, we simply wait, collect components once in a while, and then eventually upgrade so we can go through the same process faster. Repeat until you achieved all the upgrades. Or you can of course pay the (rather steep) paywall and get it now. How does this compare to the SP system? Well... Skill points are only partially passively gained, as ~85% (If my memory serves me right) is active SP, requiring you to actually play to get to your goals. Also, remember the cap? That thing that everyone cried about? Do you know what that is? GÇª If you guess timer, you are correct. See how much people dislike timers in their progression? But even that wasnGÇÖt nearly as bad since in order to collect your rewards, you actually had to dirty your hands and bash some skulls in. The key point here is that players want to be able to actively engage and affect their Warbarge, not just look at passive timers. I fully understand that the Warbarge will be used in the future for other systems. However I am deeply concerned that the passive timer based Warbarge system will continue to be used in these future features. It is troubling to say the least and I urge the development team to start veering away from this excessively passive system sooner than later. Cat Merc for C¦¦P¦¦M¦¦9¦¦ CPM Nyan! *Vote 'Keshava' for the new Gallente vehicle name!*
Cat Merc Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 14913	Posted - 2015.02.05 19:35:00 - [2] - Quote [Adding agency] - Shooting the farm So how about finding ways to fix the problem eh? You know that new salvage added in Warlords? What if we could get in salvage, items that we can put into the mobile factory to increase the component production rate, basically mirroring the way SP works with passive and active? Or you could increase the rate of component drops to a pretty high level (50%-75%), but reduce it from 50 components to say 10 to 20, so it feels like a common reward even if the end result ends up being the same speed. This would give us a way to accelerate the upgrading through play, giving players agency in the matter, and make it feel like less of a dumb timer locking you away from content, and more of a goal achieved through play, with the timer just being there to make sure that players who canGÇÖt play all the time arenGÇÖt being left out, like with SP. If there is a player market, then that is even better, since players who would choose to become rich from manipulating the market and or any other activity that doesnGÇÖt involve getting your boots on the ground could still upgrade their warbarge by buying those components from other players with the ISK they have earned. [But thatGÇÖs not enough] - The truth isGÇª There is no way to make players like the Warbarge, and stop them thinking of it as just another cashgrab, other than fixing the problem described in [Shiny 2D sprites]. The Warbarge truly has no real use, it really doesnGÇÖt, and this needs to be fixed as soon as possible. The features donGÇÖt even have to be grand. You know the Experimental Weapons lab? You know that new salvage added in Warlords that sounds like a bunch of malfunctioning weapon components? Instead of having the lab just being a timer that gives you an RNG weapon for a component price, we could feed the Warbarge components as well as the malfunctioning gear we get through salvage, and with a bit of crafting magic that may or may not involve nanites we get a beautiful shiny weapon that everybody would love to have. [Conclusion] - A nice word for tl;dr There is a lack of player agency in the progression of the Warbarge, and the Warbarge itself lacks any real purpose in game. One problem is simply a design problem that can be fixed with a bandaid comparatively easily, while the other is a problem that requires a decent amount of work from the dev team, but is already intended to be fixed in future updates. Here are a few rough ideas that you could work off of: Add manufacturing speed salvage that increases the component production rate Change the components in salvage to be almost guaranteed but at a lower amount Experimental Weapons Lab allows for manufacturing of weapons players actually want (As in, choose, not RNG) using salvage components from the battlefield Allow us to modify the Warbarge strike with different ammo types and weapons that change how the strike behaves in battle (But isnGÇÖt a straight up upgrade) Allow us to move from station to station using the Warbarge, time, and maybe fuel that you manufacture and or get through salvage(?). This in the future combined with Warbarge cargo could, as I said before, be one of the building blocks for a functioning regional economy. You could also make it so that battle contracts are visible as a list from that system, so you could have regional battles. Salvage drone bay - Recovers some of the gear lost from the last battle, needs to be fed drone fuel to keep running. Drone fuel can be acquired through manufacturing or salvage. Jump Drive - Allows you to lock on to cynosural fields created by corpmates at a limited distance, allowing you to travel farther, faster, at a higher fuel cost. Cyno Generator - Creates the cynosural fields required for the Jump Drive. Warbarge drives are tailored to a specific fuel that can only be manufactured using materials from districts, so owning districts improves your corpGÇÖs logistics capabilities. Almost everything in the PC feedback threads is a good example of many Warbarge ideas Cat Merc for C¦¦P¦¦M¦¦9¦¦ CPM Nyan! *Vote 'Keshava' for the new Gallente vehicle name!*
Cat Merc Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 14913	Posted - 2015.02.05 19:36:00 - [3] - Quote Reserved Cat Merc for C¦¦P¦¦M¦¦9¦¦ CPM Nyan! *Vote 'Keshava' for the new Gallente vehicle name!*
Cat Merc Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 14914	Posted - 2015.02.05 19:44:00 - [4] - Quote Oh **, completely forgot to copy a part of it, and it's like the largest part Working on fixing it lel Cat Merc for C¦¦P¦¦M¦¦9¦¦ CPM Nyan! Vote 'Keshava' for the new Gallente vehicle name!**
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4758	Posted - 2015.02.05 19:50:00 - [5] - Quote So basically, you want to feel like you can actually do something to improve the performance of your war barge, not just sit and watch its timers tick away? +1 Players should be engaged and encouraged to maintain and interact with the War Barge on a daily basis, not just logging in to claim/spend components. I want to feel like I'm actually part of the Warbarge and have what I do affect it. Also the Weapons Research thing is just silly. All its really doing is producing a strong box that you can unlock with components. Honestly that was the part I was most excited about because I love industry and making things...but in reality is feels more like a slot machine "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
ZDub 303 Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 3362	Posted - 2015.02.05 19:50:00 - [6] - Quote Warbarge Components as a reward for winning a battle would be a nice incentive for people to actually play to win. One of Dust's biggest issues is that there is little incentive to win a match.
Cat Merc Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 14926	Posted - 2015.02.05 19:52:00 - [7] - Quote ZDub 303 wrote: Warbarge Components as a reward for winning a battle would be a nice incentive for people to actually play to win. One of Dust's biggest issues is that there is little incentive to win a match. That's a great idea actually. Set the reward chance at 20% for the losing team and 80% for the winning time. Sounds right? Cat Merc for C¦¦P¦¦M¦¦9¦¦ CPM Nyan! *Vote 'Keshava' for the new Gallente vehicle name!*
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 21753	Posted - 2015.02.05 19:57:00 - [8] - Quote Cat, you're threadnaughting! I'm so proud. :'-) :Bittervetting intensifies:
Cat Merc Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 14926	Posted - 2015.02.05 19:59:00 - [9] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Cat, you're threadnaughting! I'm so proud. :'-) Yeah well, that's what happens when Pokey directs my bitter vet ranting on skype into constructive criticism Cat Merc for C¦¦P¦¦M¦¦9¦¦ CPM Nyan! *Vote 'Keshava' for the new Gallente vehicle name!*
Zaria Min Deir 0uter.Heaven 1152	Posted - 2015.02.05 20:17:00 - [10] - Quote All hail the Cat, for he speaks glorious words of wisdom. Have you considered installing the improved keyboard? "Go Go Power Rangers!"

Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4760	Posted - 2015.02.05 20:18:00 - [11] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Cat, you're threadnaughting! I'm so proud. :'-) Yeah well, that's what happens when Pokey directs my bitter vet ranting on skype into constructive criticism Totally off topic, but holy ** your sig. CPM Nyan. omg. laughing more than I should. "That little st Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 18627	Posted - 2015.02.05 20:33:00 - [12] - Quote Thank you for being Candid. CPM 1 Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior \\= Prototype Forge Gun=// Unlocked
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution 9471	Posted - 2015.02.05 21:01:00 - [13] - Quote I would like to see FW based subsystems as well. Increase your Augmented Ammunition facilities bonus by converting into a Specialized ammunition subsystem. I.e. Amarr crystal enhancements, stabilized suspended plasma rounds, compact volatile compounds for minmatar etc etc. Of course the drawback of this would be that if was for a specific weapon class and not an overall buff for all weapons. The advantage would be that once you unlock the Augmented Ammunition facility you can then convert it to your racial weapons facility that can either be upgraded by Warbarge components or LP points. FW desperately needs incentive to play and I feel that adding the option of faction based subsystems. Is a great way to do that. It's not restricted to just the ammunition Facility but one example *Vote 'Keshava' for the new Gallente HAV name!* *~Democracy will win!*
Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 615	Posted - 2015.02.05 21:25:00 - [14] - Quote Like it a lot! +3 Especially to claim Warbarge components for a victory.
Jebus McKing Nos Nothi 1413	Posted - 2015.02.05 22:44:00 - [15] - Quote Why do I have a Warbarge but don't really own it? I don't want to be just given a Warbarge for free, I want to buy it with my hard earned ISK so it feels like it's mine! And if it can't be destroyed why should I care about it? This is New Eden! Jebus still hates scans.
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution 9471	Posted - 2015.02.05 22:47:00 - [16] - Quote Jebus McKing wrote: Why do I have a Warbarge but don't really own it? I don't want to be just given a Warbarge for free, I want to buy it with my hard earned ISK so it feels like it's mine! And if it can't be destroyed why should I care about it? This is New Eden! Because you're a special snowflake! *Vote 'Keshava' for the new Gallente HAV name!* *~Democracy will win!*
pumping up Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 168	Posted - 2015.02.05 22:54:00 - [17] - Quote IMHO the warbarge as is wouldn't be bad.... if we didn't have to wait a whole year to get to the weapons lab.... The components needed are off the charts, remember there are even MORE warbarge parts planned. Help me gain the C-II Dropsuit Pilot & Saboteur
tritan abbattere DBAG CORE 17	Posted - 2015.02.05 23:54:00 - [18] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: ZDub 303 wrote: Warbarge Components as a reward for winning a battle would be a nice incentive for people to actually play to win. One of Dust's biggest issues is that there is little incentive to win a match. That's a great idea actually. Set the reward chance at 20% for the losing team and 80% for the winning time. Sounds right? or make it so who ever wins picks up all the salvage from the battle and the chance of a thing surviving is say 35% after being killed. I am the all mighty Tritan. Fear me for I am a MassHole
tander09 Amarr Empire 234	Posted - 2015.02.06 00:49:00 - [19] - Quote We should have an option to make the warbarges our home. "The feud shall not be forgotten. But those who forget, never witnessed the true horror of it." -Nexle Skimfuse
G Felix Terminus Defense Force 490	Posted - 2015.02.06 00:56:00 - [20] - Quote The CPM need to make sure Ratatti sees this. Spot on, Cat. Dust can be frustrating. (Gò»°Gûí°)Gò»n+¦ Gö+GöüGö+)

Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4770	Posted - 2015.02.06 01:27:00 - [21] - Quote Like honestly, while Warframe has its problems and I hate a lot its cash shop model, the way it did crafting was nice and simple, and would work for Dust. Various Components drop during missions. Components can also be generated passively but have to be collected on a regular basis. (However this is supplemental, majority of components are collected on missions) Go to the your factory, each weapon/item has a component cost and a build time. Pick an item to make, spend the components, start the build. Build time can be reduced with Premium Currency. Key points to take away? You make what you want. You actually have to do work to get most of your components. AUR can speed up production but you can't get the raw materials with AUR. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 16610	Posted - 2015.02.06 02:54:00 - [22] - Quote I will be honest, there is nothing in the OP we have not said we wanted to do. This was always the needed foundation and first step. So good that you agree... The players, true reaction, ie warbarge upgrading behaviour, does not seem to be that hostile, so I recommend you tone down the OP title or take the risk of a forum vacation. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution 9478	Posted - 2015.02.06 03:00:00 - [23] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I will be honest, there is nothing in the OP we have not said we wanted to do. This was always the needed foundation and first step. So good that you agree... The players, true reaction, ie warbarge upgrading behaviour, does not seem to be that hostile, so I recommend you tone down the OP title or take the risk of a forum vacation. Hello Kim Jong-un. *Vote 'Keshava' for the new Gallente HAV name!* *~Democracy will win!*

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 16610	Posted - 2015.02.06 03:03:00 - [24] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I will be honest, there is nothing in the OP we have not said we wanted to do. This was always the needed foundation and first step. So good that you agree... The players, true reaction, ie warbarge upgrading behaviour, does not seem to be that hostile, so I recommend you tone down the OP title or take the risk of a forum vacation. Hello Kim Jong-un. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 7603	Posted - 2015.02.06 03:04:00 - [25] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I will be honest, there is nothing in the OP we have not said we wanted to do. This was always the needed foundation and first step. So good that you agree... The players, true reaction, ie warbarge upgrading behaviour, does not seem to be that hostile, so I recommend you tone down the OP title or take the risk of a forum vacation. CCP Rattati, player adoption rates are not the iron clad indicator of enjoyment. Some of us are upgrading our warbarges because there isn't much else to do in Dust right now. "You don't want McSyphilis. Don't nobody want McSyphilis." - One Eyed King
Vulpes Dolosus Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2935	Posted - 2015.02.06 03:04:00 - [26] - Quote This was my biggest disappointment with the war barges. I thought they were going to be a corporate asset that was shared among your corporation, not a personal buff. I thought everyone in the corp would play and donate their salvage to the war barge to build it up and make new subsystems or improve current ones. Then I was hoping the subsystems would be modular and the CEO or other officer would select which ones were active for the corp, so that they could focus on arming themselves, getting money, preparing for PC offensives, etc. The war barge is cool and useful and all, but it's really underwhelming. Dust is there! I was real! Dear diary, Rattati senpai noticed me today~
tritan abbattere DBAG CORE 19	Posted - 2015.02.06 03:06:00 - [27] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Sgt Kirk wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I will be honest, there is nothing in the OP we have not said we wanted to do. This was always the needed foundation and first step. So good that you agree... The players, true reaction, ie warbarge upgrading behaviour, does not seem to be that hostile, so I recommend you tone down the OP title or take the risk of a forum vacation. Hello Kim Jong-un. don't threaten your customers because they want to voice there feeling about something...... I am the all mighty Tritan. Fear me for I am a MassHole

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 16610	Posted - 2015.02.06 03:06:00 - [28] - Quote Vulpes Dolosus wrote: This was my biggest disappointment with the war barges. I thought they were going to be a corporate asset that was shared among your corporation, not a personal buff. I thought everyone in the corp would play and donate their salvage to the war barge to build it up and make new subsystems or improve current ones. Then I was hoping the subsystems would be modular and the CEO or other officer would select which ones were active for the corp, so that they could focus on arming themselves, getting money, preparing for PC offensives, etc. The war barge is cool and useful and all, but it's really underwhelming. It's pretty clear in the discussion thread, the Command Center/Flotilla is the second step and the connection to PC 2.0 "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution 9478	Posted - 2015.02.06 03:08:00 - [29] - Quote tritan abbattere wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Sgt Kirk wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I will be honest, there is nothing in the OP we have not said we wanted to do. This was always the needed foundation and first step. So good that you agree... The players, true reaction, ie warbarge upgrading behaviour, does not seem to be that hostile, so I recommend you tone down the OP title or take the risk of a forum vacation. Hello Kim Jong-un. don't threaten your customers because they want to voice there feeling about something...... Seriously, that is the most despicable thing you could ever possibly do. There was no raving or complete vulgarity and he was thorough in his concerns and you threaten to ban him. Really dude? *Vote 'Keshava' for the new Gallente HAV name!* *~Democracy will win!*
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 2102	Posted - 2015.02.06 03:11:00 - [30] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I will be honest, there is nothing in the OP we have not said we wanted to do. This was always the needed foundation and first step. So good that you agree... The players, true reaction, ie warbarge upgrading behaviour, does not seem to be that hostile, so I recommend you tone down the OP title or take the risk of a forum vacation. Hello Kim Jong-un. I for one love our glorious leader and cannot wait for him to bestow the secrets of telepathy on me. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.



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