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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
6301
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Posted - 2015.02.02 17:18:00 -
[1] - Quote
Think they'll ninja it in?
Shoot scout with yes.
- Ripley Riley
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Megaman Trigger
Ready to Play
211
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Posted - 2015.02.02 19:04:00 -
[2] - Quote
I heard it was going to be a turning speed penalty. Hopefully it's applied only to the HMG when it's in use/being carried and not directly to the Sentinel suit, otherwise it'll affect the Forge Gun too.
Purifier. First Class.
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TooMany Names AlreadyTaken
Going for the gold
659
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Posted - 2015.02.02 19:29:00 -
[3] - Quote
I wish the range gets nerfed from 30m to 20m... T_T
Hidden in the dark, I sit still, polishing my knife, waiting for you to walk by.
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deezy dabest
IMPERIAL SPECIAL FORCES GROUP
2041
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Posted - 2015.02.02 19:36:00 -
[4] - Quote
They will be "accidentally" deleting the ISK variations of HMGs. |
Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
6304
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Posted - 2015.02.02 19:52:00 -
[5] - Quote
Megaman Trigger wrote:I heard it was going to be a turning speed penalty.
TooMany Names AlreadyTaken wrote:I wish the range gets nerfed from 30m to 20m...
If they did both, would it be too much?
Shoot scout with yes.
- Ripley Riley
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Varoth Drac
State of Purgatory
556
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Posted - 2015.02.02 21:15:00 -
[6] - Quote
Only nerf I would welcome would be the addition of movement inertia to all suits (obviously scaled by weight). Fed up of sentinels moving suddenly out of the way when I try to stab them in the back, which always ends in me getting pulped by bullets.
Flip side- would also make scout movement and evasion more difficult, and tone down min assault wiggle strafe.
Gotta be careful advocating for sentinel nerfs. Whilst they are common in PC, check the market stats; not many sentinels sold. Personally I find I die a lot as a heavy. Doesn't seem too OP to me. |
Francois Sanchez
Prima Gallicus
231
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Posted - 2015.02.02 22:52:00 -
[7] - Quote
To me the only problem with the HMG is the range.
And I don't think there will be any HMG ninja nerf |
Archduke Ferd1nand
Nos Nothi
33
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Posted - 2015.02.03 00:13:00 -
[8] - Quote
Varoth Drac wrote:Only nerf I would welcome would be the addition of movement inertia to all suits (obviously scaled by weight). Fed up of sentinels moving suddenly out of the way when I try to stab them in the back, which always ends in me getting pulped by bullets.
Flip side- this would also make scout movement and evasion more difficult, and tone down min assault wiggle strafe.
Gotta be careful advocating for sentinel nerfs. Whilst they are common in PC, check the market stats; not many sentinels sold. Personally I find I die a lot as a heavy. Doesn't seem too OP to me.
Maybe you're just bad?
My min heavy frame is my go to suit if i need to kill people.
Killed by Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p on June 28 1914.
Last words: "Nova Knives and a Flaylock Pistol? I might just die laughing!"
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Megaman Trigger
Ready to Play
212
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Posted - 2015.02.03 00:16:00 -
[9] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Megaman Trigger wrote:I heard it was going to be a turning speed penalty. TooMany Names AlreadyTaken wrote:I wish the range gets nerfed from 30m to 20m... Excellent ideas. If they did both, would it still be OP?
If they do add a turning speed nerf, it should be applied only when the HMG is being carried. A flat nerf to the suit rather than the weapon would affect side arm and AV in addition.
Purifier. First Class.
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
6306
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Posted - 2015.02.03 00:16:00 -
[10] - Quote
Archduke Ferd1nand wrote:Varoth Drac wrote:Only nerf I would welcome would be the addition of movement inertia to all suits (obviously scaled by weight). Fed up of sentinels moving suddenly out of the way when I try to stab them in the back, which always ends in me getting pulped by bullets.
Flip side- this would also make scout movement and evasion more difficult, and tone down min assault wiggle strafe.
Gotta be careful advocating for sentinel nerfs. Whilst they are common in PC, check the market stats; not many sentinels sold. Personally I find I die a lot as a heavy. Doesn't seem too OP to me. Maybe you're just bad? My min heavy frame is my go to suit if i need to kill people.
Varoth isn't bad. And he has a point. I find it odd that their usage rates aren't through the roof.
Shoot scout with yes.
- Ripley Riley
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
6306
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Posted - 2015.02.03 00:19:00 -
[11] - Quote
Megaman Trigger wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:Megaman Trigger wrote:I heard it was going to be a turning speed penalty. TooMany Names AlreadyTaken wrote:I wish the range gets nerfed from 30m to 20m... Excellent ideas. If they did both, would it still be OP? If they do add a turning speed nerf, it should be applied only when the HMG is being carried. A flat nerf to the suit rather than the weapon would affect side arm and AV in addition.
Agreed. We ask that Snipers forgo mobility to deal damage to target. I don't think it unreasonable to ask the same of the hardest hitting weapon in the game.
Shoot scout with yes.
- Ripley Riley
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Imp Smash
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
611
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Posted - 2015.02.03 00:21:00 -
[12] - Quote
Because they aren't as good as people like to complain about. |
Megaman Trigger
Ready to Play
212
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Posted - 2015.02.03 00:22:00 -
[13] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Megaman Trigger wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:Megaman Trigger wrote:I heard it was going to be a turning speed penalty. TooMany Names AlreadyTaken wrote:I wish the range gets nerfed from 30m to 20m... Excellent ideas. If they did both, would it still be OP? If they do add a turning speed nerf, it should be applied only when the HMG is being carried. A flat nerf to the suit rather than the weapon would affect side arm and AV in addition. Agreed. We ask that Snipers forgo mobility to deal damage to target. I don't think it unreasonable to ask the same of the hardest hitting weapon in the game.
A turn penalty to all weapons, or even just movement in general, in order to balance one weapon seems... excessive.
Purifier. First Class.
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
6307
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Posted - 2015.02.03 00:35:00 -
[14] - Quote
Megaman Trigger wrote:
A turn penalty to all weapons, or even just movement in general, in order to balance one weapon seems... excessive.
I'm saying why not treat the HMG like we do the Sniper Rifle? Make it unwieldy and unreliably unless fired from a squatting position. This way the heavy retains its mobility until it commits itself to attack.
Less mindless, spinning killing sprees. More deliberate effort and planning.
Shoot scout with yes.
- Ripley Riley
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Varoth Drac
State of Purgatory
General Tso's Alliance
561
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Posted - 2015.02.03 00:50:00 -
[15] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Archduke Ferd1nand wrote:Maybe you're just bad?
My min heavy frame is my go to suit if i need to kill people. Varoth isn't bad. And he has a point. I find it odd that their usage rates aren't through the roof.
Perhaps I get a bit cocky with 1500hp and an HMG when I'm used to 300 hp and a couple of knives. They don't seem OP in pubs, but what's the situation in PC? Haven't done one in a while. If they completely dominate PC there is a problem, otherwise I say leave them alone for now, see what Rattati's data says.
I miss the time when scouts and hmg heavies could get along, knowing both their suits were severely underpowered. We used to work together to end the plague of Duvolle slayer logi's.
Since 1.8 it's been "scouts are OP",
"no we aren't, look at all the heavies. Heavies are OP!"
"No we aren't. Hey, that scout just blew you up with one RE. I didn't see him so he must have been invisible and unscannable with 700 armour."
Third guy "that's so annoying, scouts are OP!" etc....
Scouts were nerfed. Heavies were nerfed. Assaults were buffed. Time to worry about other things, like tanks, small blasters, breach shotguns, range amps..... |
Megaman Trigger
Ready to Play
212
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Posted - 2015.02.03 00:53:00 -
[16] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Megaman Trigger wrote:
A turn penalty to all weapons, or even just movement in general, in order to balance one weapon seems... excessive.
I'm saying why not treat the HMG like we do the Sniper Rifle? Make it unwieldy and unreliably unless fired from a squatting position. This way the heavy retains its mobility until it commits itself to attack. Less mindless, spinning HMG killing sprees. More deliberate effort and planning.
I disagree. Using a weapon that requires precision and patience as a reference point for something that's on the opposite end of functionality is a bad idea IMO.
A speed cap on the HMG itself, so it only affects turning speed while the HMG is in your hands, would make it less of a problem in CQC while not going overboard.
Having the HMG require bracing to fire effectively would only give rise to Sentinels camping around corners, since they won't have much of a choice but sit and wait for a target.
Purifier. First Class.
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Vicious Minotaur
1940
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Posted - 2015.02.03 00:58:00 -
[17] - Quote
The changes I, as a Chromosome heavy veteran, want:
NEW BONUSES! (Whoever advocated for resistances should be harassed by a perverted chipmunk for eternity.)
HMG dps reduction (hurr durr, HMG dps iz in gud place!!!111!1!! <---says out of touch people)
HMG heat buildup reduction (I have a great idea! Let's make the HMG less fun to use! Via heat increase! Genius!!! 11!11!!!)
Unless the above are done... I. Don't. Want. Your. Snake. Oil.
I am a minotaur.
a+üa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa+üa¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça+üa+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+üa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa+üa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ë
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
6307
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Posted - 2015.02.03 01:29:00 -
[18] - Quote
Varoth Drac wrote:
1. Scouts were nerfed.
2. Heavies were nerfed.
3. Assaults were buffed.
1 and 3 I distinctly recall. What happened with 2?
Shoot scout with yes.
- Ripley Riley
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Megaman Trigger
Ready to Play
214
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Posted - 2015.02.03 01:36:00 -
[19] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Varoth Drac wrote:
1. Scouts were nerfed.
2. Heavies were nerfed.
3. Assaults were buffed.
1 and 3 I distinctly recall. What happened with 2?
Heat Buildup increases for HMGs (I recall two of these) and CPU and PG reduction (offset somewhat by fitting bonus on Heavy weapons) to remove a Sentinels ability to go full Proto.
Gallente and Amarr Sentinels also had their slot layouts swapped; Gallente became 2H/3L and Amarr became 1H/4L when it was the other way around. Not sure that qualified as a nerf but it did throw some of us for a loop before we adjusted,
Purifier. First Class.
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Imp Smash
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
611
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Posted - 2015.02.03 01:52:00 -
[20] - Quote
Heavy HMGs were range nerfed a while back. We never saw heavies until like 1.8 or so (I dont remember the exact update they got useful again) because the HMG used to fire like a laser. So heavies had trouble hitting anything.
The only buff heavies ever got was the HMG getting more dispersion which made it easier to hit with but lowered the DPS. |
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
6309
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Posted - 2015.02.03 01:56:00 -
[21] - Quote
Yep. Heavies were largely ineffective from 1.0 to 1.8.
I think where we went wrong was with rotation speed normalization (1.4, was it?). Finding oneself in front of a Heavy is nigh guaranteed doom. Getting behind a Heavy should have meaning; insta-spin negates meaning.
In Chromosome, good heavies were the ones who could read their environment and anticipate their enemy's approach. There was no insta-spin. Today, they need only react after being hit in the back to have even odds of winning.
Shoot scout with yes.
- Ripley Riley
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Imp Smash
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
611
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Posted - 2015.02.03 02:32:00 -
[22] - Quote
Nah. Even after they removed the turn speed cap heavies will still underused because they underperformed in all but the most die-hard hands.
It was specifically the HMG dispersion addition (can't say nerf or buff as it was really more of a side-grade) that made the HMG (and thereby heavies) approachable and easier to use.
Add to that the increase in Logi WP farming with the reptool and the addition of more close combat objectives and you saw a drastic increase in heavies.
Nerf CQC by reducing the amount of CQC around maps. Reduce the amount of objectives that are inside a building. Only allow heavies to passenger a vehicles and not drive making their weakness to moving around a large issue.
You will see a huge drop in the number of heavies without changing their CQC ability. |
Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
6309
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Posted - 2015.02.03 02:38:00 -
[23] - Quote
You don't redesign a game to better accommodate one broken class. You fix the broken class.
But say we did, for the sake of explanation. Say we inverted map layout, such that the majority of combat occurred outside instead of in. Could we not then posit the exact same argument when faced with "OP" laser and sniper rifles?
Shoot scout with yes.
- Ripley Riley
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Imp Smash
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
611
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Posted - 2015.02.03 05:24:00 -
[24] - Quote
The class isn't broken. It is easily killable. Easier to kill than any other class. It's just that is untrue inside buildings or around lots of cover. Then it is super hard to kill.
Outside of that, though, it has severe easily exploitable weaknesses.
Namely, slow speed, lack of dodging, takes more damage from incoming fire, cannot choose range, cannot kill at long range, no ewar.
Basically heavies control nothing. All other classes can control the battlefield better. And in doing so put the heavy at a nigh insurmountable advantage.
The environment was overly tuned to heavies. That is all. |
Breakin Stuff
Internal Error.
Negative-Feedback
6940
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Posted - 2015.02.03 06:32:00 -
[25] - Quote
Removing HMG aim assist will fix the problem.
Turn speed caps are a sh*t idea unless the HMG is made a long range weapon.
Being a CQC only bbuild that can be casually circled and ganked like a turtle on its back is beyond frustrating to a degree none of you can contemplate.
The removal of that made the HMG viable.
If you want a turn speed penalty the HMG has to have a range in excess of 80m.
Also reducing the damage output from 18.9 to 17.9 isn't going to break I. It'll just make I chromosome level DPS. Which for me was absolutely fine.
Id rather drop to 17.9 and lose AA so I can get my 10% damage mods back.
AV
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Imp Smash
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
613
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Posted - 2015.02.03 07:31:00 -
[26] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:
Being a CQC only bbuild that can be casually circled and ganked like a turtle on its back is beyond frustrating to a degree none of you can contemplate.
The removal of that made the HMG viable.
Id rather drop to 17.9 and lose AA so I can get my 10% damage mods back.
Because YOU run damage mods. Not everyone wants to, does and / or can.
Changing a class to be offset by an equipment change (semi - side grade) that not everyone can / will run is favoritist and stifling.
I'm not going to comment on DPS changes. I am at least able to admit that I don't know enough about the PRACTICAL DPS application of the HMG on average. (Paper is not practical for people out there in forum warrior land.)
But anyway
- this statement is most likely correct.
- this statement is most likely incorrect. |
Breakin Stuff
Internal Error.
Negative-Feedback
6941
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Posted - 2015.02.03 08:46:00 -
[27] - Quote
No. My entire thesis is correct on the basis of having played during turn speed hell, after turn speed hell and every hell in between.
I have tested the AA and it has an inordinate effect on the HMG.
The HMG is overperforming and was viable at 17.9 damage/bullte at proto.
Rattati has stated that they did not unscrew heavy damage mods BECAUSE of the HMG. They were afraid of it breaking.
I am more than aware of what works and what does not. The HMG never has been dependent upon damage mods.
I want the damage mods fixed so AV doesn't remain lagging behind the swarm launcher for potential output.
But I tell you what the turn speed normalization took a crapass suit/weapon combo and made them decent. Overbuffing sentinels and the HMG while nerfing battle rifles did the rest.
It's not the heat that's buggering up the HMG it's the aim assist.
AV
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