DUST Search - Major Issues with Commandos.

Pokey Dravon wrote:

Diablos Prime wrote:

I guess I would be the first one to disagree with everyone on here. I would just like the other side of the opinion to be heard. I think the Commandos are OP as is. Granted this is not other games but every other game I have played that even lets you get two main weapons gives you a penalty except in this case. It is faster than any other heavy suit and has more HP than any medium suit. When counter sniping a sniper in a commando suit snipers are at a severe disadvantage both long and short range. As well as commandos have the advantage against medium and light suit if everything else is even; i.e. same weapon, same skills, etc.

As an example:

Amarr Commando
x3 Complex Plates
250 Shield HP
1045 Armor HP
1295 Total HP
3.3 m/s Movement Speed

Amarr Assault
x5 Complex Plates
181 Shield HP
1136 Armor HP
1317 Total HP
3.71 m/s Movement Speed

So Assault is faster, has more HP, more off-rack slots, a smaller hitbox, more stamina, better scanning stats, a grenade slot, fitting bonuses and weapon support bonuses.

Commando has an extra light weapon and 10% more damage.

In this case if the Amarr Assault stacks damage mods in its high slots, it ends up with similar damage output to the Commando, so even that bonus is negated.

So if you think Commando is OP, then Assault must be even worse, right?

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Sir Dukey Murphys-Law General Tso's Alliance 1545	Posted - 2015.01.18 14:02:00 - [1] - Quote Currently, everything a commando does- and Assault can do it better. Assaults can survive better, tank more, even dish out more damage, they have better ewar, way faster, smaller hit box, a grenade slot, and what not.. Commandos are a good concept on paper but on the field they are trash except for Minmatar because that one is good at AV and CR is breaking point OP. I would like to propose a few changes to the commandos. -One of the biggest issues with commandos is their Speed-HP-Hitbox-Slot layout. They have more base HP than Assaults but a Proto Assault has 4 more slots compared to commando!! So when it comes ti Proto Commando vs Proto Assault. The Proto Assault beats Commando at Speed-Strafe-regenerative ability- Ewar- and HP!! -In order to help commandos out a bit- they need a speed buff. They shouldn't be running at heavy speeds while having less HP than assaults. I propose Gallante and Caldari Commandos run at 6.6 m/s, Minmatar and Amarr adjusted with CCP calculations. (Min-6.7, Amarr-6.5??) -Commandos need better ewar. It is to a point where heavies are sneaking up on us and if we sacrifice out 4 slots to EWAR- our is literally a throw away fit. We probably won't be able to pick up Assaults still. So I propose matching their ewar with a Assault but with Logistics range -- the HP. Not only does the Commando have the hitbox of a heavy but it has the HP of a tanked scout/ semi tanked Assault. I Propose an HP buff, Gallante/Caldari get a 20% HP buff, 15% to main tank (Shields for Caldari and Armor for Gallante) and 5% opposite tank (Armor for Caldari and Shield for Gallante). The Minmatar get a 10%/10% buff and Amarr get a 20% buff to armor. This would give them slightly more HP to help with the ginormous hitbox. Sadly Assaults would still probably tank more. I hope these changes will make Commados more popular are on Par with other suits. Acquire Currency, Disregard Female Canis lupus familiaris
Sir Dukey Murphys-Law General Tso's Alliance 1550	Posted - 2015.01.18 18:48:00 - [2] - Quote Acquire Currency, Disregard Female Canis lupus familiaris
Horizon Limit Nexus Balusa Horizon 145	Posted - 2015.01.18 19:12:00 - [3] - Quote I would give: +1 module +1 nade slot + PG/CPU or same assault fitting bonus. Cal scout vs Cal scout
Varoth Drac Titans of Phoenix VP Gaming Alliance 550	Posted - 2015.01.18 19:37:00 - [4] - Quote They all need to be good at AV. Give Caldari a swarm bonus and the Amarr a plasma cannon bonus.
Sir Dukey Murphys-Law General Tso's Alliance 1550	Posted - 2015.01.18 19:49:00 - [5] - Quote Varoth Drac wrote: They all need to be good at AV. Give Caldari a swarm bonus and the Amarr a plasma cannon bonus. Amarr with PC? Acquire Currency, Disregard Female Canis lupus familiaris
DeadlyAztec11 Ostrakon Agency 7137	Posted - 2015.01.18 19:55:00 - [6] - Quote As a Gallente Commando all I really need is a grenade slot. Put your flags up in the sky. And wave them side to side. Show the world where you're from. Show the world we are one.
Kierkegaard Soren Eridani Light Horse Striker 652	Posted - 2015.01.18 20:16:00 - [7] - Quote Juuuust going to leave this here for you. Dedicated Commando. CEO of Eridani Light Horse Strikers. "He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing."
Joel II X Bacon with a bottle of Quafe 5600	Posted - 2015.01.19 05:34:00 - [8] - Quote Horizon Limit wrote: I would give: +1 module +1 nade slot + PG/CPU or same assault fitting bonus. CPU/PG isn't a problem. I can fit all proto mods, weapons, and equipment without reaching my limit.
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 1921	Posted - 2015.01.19 05:57:00 - [9] - Quote The commando isn't that far off from being one of the most powerful suits in the game - having played in commando squads there is no situation that commandos cannot deal with confidently and competently. I feel that the current minmatar bonus to swarms is unintended and should be removed - essentially it pushes wiyrkomi swarms up to allotek plasma cannon level damage... but with 3 shots in the magazine and nearly none of the player skill demands. I would support +1 slot though (high slots for amarr & gal & min, low slot for cal) as it brings the 1highslot commandos up over their assaults damage, and it gives the cal potentially better regulation. There needs to be some tweaks to shield delays & recharge values across all commandos though. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
killian178 Random Gunz RISE of LEGION 78	Posted - 2015.01.19 05:59:00 - [10] - Quote Joel II X wrote: Horizon Limit wrote: I would give: +1 module +1 nade slot + PG/CPU or same assault fitting bonus. CPU/PG isn't a problem. I can fit all proto mods, weapons, and equipment without reaching my limit. You would for another cmplex mod and nade though Every commando k.o, every weapon at adv or above. Don't give a damn bout my kdr, I will kill you.

Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 10800	Posted - 2015.01.19 06:53:00 - [11] - Quote Don't forget about the BEARs ('Black Eagle' Assault Rifles). On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Juno Tristan Obscure Reference 266	Posted - 2015.01.19 07:42:00 - [12] - Quote The assault eHP buff did eat into the commandos role a bit but I think the overall eHP is fine, the thing killing the role is the lack of recovery/repair that means you have to sit in cover after a fight, giving the enemy enough time to flank you
Sir Dukey Murphys-Law General Tso's Alliance 1555	Posted - 2015.01.19 14:45:00 - [13] - Quote Juno Tristan wrote: The assault eHP buff did eat into the commandos role a bit but I think the overall eHP is fine, the thing killing the role is the lack of recovery/repair that means you have to sit in cover after a fight, giving the enemy enough time to flank you Yea, Calmando should have save recharge bonuses as the Caladri Heavy. Acquire Currency, Disregard Female Canis lupus familiaris
Heimdallr69 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 4379	Posted - 2015.01.19 17:05:00 - [14] - Quote I agree it needs a buff but let's not over do it.. Assaults are finally in a good place and after all they are the slayers not commandos. Speed should be between logi and heavies, everything else has nades so why not, hp increase sure as long as there isn't a module increase too. Compare the gal/cal assault bonus to commandos. Removed inappropriate content - CCP Logibro
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui Onikanabo Brigade Caldari State 1731	Posted - 2015.01.19 18:32:00 - [15] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: As a Gallente Commando all I really need is a grenade slot. To see better , more speed and better stamina / stamina regen and all commando's would be alright , coupled with the aforementioned grenade slot . Edit : If these thing are done then they wouldn't need a extra slot . Better precision should be under logi that's under scouts , allow them to see better then assaults unless an assault equip precision mods , better stamina / stamina regen ... add the grenade slot and that suit is alright , no need for a extra slot of any kind . Doubts are like flies and should be treated as such and crushed .
Sir Dukey Murphys-Law General Tso's Alliance 1558	Posted - 2015.01.19 20:26:00 - [16] - Quote Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: DeadlyAztec11 wrote: As a Gallente Commando all I really need is a grenade slot. To see better , more speed and better stamina / stamina regen and all commando's would be alright , coupled with the aforementioned grenade slot . Edit : If these thing are done then they wouldn't need a extra slot . Better precision should be under logi that's under scouts , allow them to see better then assaults unless an assault equip precision mods , better stamina / stamina regen ... add the grenade slot and that suit is alright , no need for a extra slot of any kind . A Gal Commando and Min Commando do not need AV nade slots my friend. Acquire Currency, Disregard Female Canis lupus familiaris
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4429	Posted - 2015.01.19 21:26:00 - [17] - Quote Having only 2 slots at STD and 4 at PRO is simply absurd. Match Commando slots to Sentinels (Effectively one more slot at each tier) Slight increase to mobility (Probably more Stamina) Push scanning abilities closer to than of an Assault (they fill too similar of a role to be that different in scanning) maybe a grenade slot for some/all Commandos "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 7287	Posted - 2015.01.19 21:59:00 - [18] - Quote I agree Commandos need some help. I think the HP to speed relationship needs fixed, and really should be balanced across all tiers and suits. Logis have a similar problem. Lower HP should be faster, higher HP should be slower. That needs taken into account when discussing whether or not to increase Commando HP or speed. I don't know whether they need more HP or more speed, but certainly not both. I do think they need better EWAR than a Sentinal, but I don't think that they should approach Medium Frame levels. Grenades alone would be a big difference. I don't think that adding one module slot per tier at Commando would be a problem. However, I wouldn't suggest adding a module slot, adding a grenade slot, and creating HP/Speed balance needs to all be done. Start off with the HP/Speed balance and go from there. Thunderbolt. verb and noun. "James thunderbolted in his pants." "I lit a bag of thunderbolt on fire on CCP's doorway"
Joel II X Bacon with a bottle of Quafe 5626	Posted - 2015.01.19 22:58:00 - [19] - Quote killian178 wrote: Joel II X wrote: Horizon Limit wrote: I would give: +1 module +1 nade slot + PG/CPU or same assault fitting bonus. CPU/PG isn't a problem. I can fit all proto mods, weapons, and equipment without reaching my limit. You would for another cmplex mod and nade though Yeah, but they don't NEED extra mods. Let's be honest, what would use that extra mod for? Extra tank, I bet. It seems like the most reasonable, after all. At the end of the day, that extra slot won't give you better EWAR, movement, just damage or tank simply because that would be the most reasonable considering how easy it is to kill a slow, big assault. The grenade slot would be cool, but not having further widens the gap between Sentinel and Commando, so I prefer not having it. That said, a Mass Driver, and Plasma Cannon work just like grenades to a certain extent.
Imp Smash Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 539	Posted - 2015.01.19 23:59:00 - [20] - Quote Well, don't forget, while commandos have relatively low HP due to their low number of slots , they take the 2nd most damage from incoming fire due to their hitbox and low base strafe speed. So -- something to consider about commando efficacy on the field.

Sir Dukey Murphys-Law General Tso's Alliance 1559	Posted - 2015.01.20 00:10:00 - [21] - Quote Imp Smash wrote: Well, don't forget, while commandos have relatively low HP due to their low number of slots , they take the 2nd most damage from incoming fire due to their hitbox and low base strafe speed. So -- something to consider about commando efficacy on the field. What takes the first? Sentinels take less damage due to resistances. Acquire Currency, Disregard Female Canis lupus familiaris
Sir Dukey Murphys-Law General Tso's Alliance 1559	Posted - 2015.01.20 00:15:00 - [22] - Quote Commandos need better regenerative abilities than heavies. Caldari Commando Shield regen needs to be identical to the sentinel. currently they have a stupidly long delay and only recharge 20/sec. My Amarr Assault can do 23 passive while still having 100 more ehp and moving .9 m/s faster. Acquire Currency, Disregard Female Canis lupus familiaris
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 1831	Posted - 2015.01.20 00:42:00 - [23] - Quote +1 Module Slot + PG/CPU (reducing Assault speed wouldn't hurt, but good luck selling that)
Sir Dukey Murphys-Law General Tso's Alliance 1559	Posted - 2015.01.20 00:48:00 - [24] - Quote Vitantur Nothus wrote: +1 Module Slot + PG/CPU No More EHP or More Speed. I'm going toward speed. Better Regeneration for shield (Give Calmando same Shield recharge/delay/depleted delay as CAl Sentinel). + CPU+PG +One extra slot. Acquire Currency, Disregard Female Canis lupus familiaris
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 1831	Posted - 2015.01.20 00:55:00 - [25] - Quote Commandos are far from bad, and +1 Module Slot is a significant buff. There's precisely zero reason to risk over doing it. If you have a problem with the speed gap between Assault and Commando, reduce Assault speed; they're far too fast for 1000HP units.
Imp Smash Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 539	Posted - 2015.01.20 01:59:00 - [26] - Quote Sir Dukey wrote: Imp Smash wrote: Well, don't forget, while commandos have relatively low HP due to their low number of slots , they take the 2nd most damage from incoming fire due to their hitbox and low base strafe speed. So -- something to consider about commando efficacy on the field. What takes the first? Sentinels take less damage due to resistances. I would say basic heavy suit in general. The sentinel is close to the commando for the resistances bonus you listed but I would say, purely from opinion, that they take a tad more. But remember, resistances essentially cut out the proficiency bonus on some weapons (not all) for some of their life bar (again, not all.) But sentinels have (same as commandos) a massive hit box which is the major deciding factor. It is HARD to miss the heavy and, most importantly, a LARGE head to hit. So heavies (and by the same token commandos) take a LOT of critical damage relative to other frames. Especially noticeable on weapons that have higher than average headshot crit multipliers. Add to that that the heavy is the slowest (slower even than the commando yes) even more shots will land on target (and in compliment) more critical shots will land due to lack of strafing. Now of course heavies (sentinels) have more HP so they can withstand this and I am not trying to marginalize that fact. I am speaking only from the incoming damage standpoint. Commandos do not have the HP to make up for this. They have some more speed so they can avoid a small percentage more shots (who knows how much that is) but ultimately all heavy frames get hit harder than all other frames. Theoretically they have the HP to take it, damn near all commandos don't -- they rely on higher DPS weapons to drop their target before they drop themselves. Their lack of speed and ewar makes it a bit harder for a commando to get into a position to hit someone first. To be fair, my ranking of Heavy suits and sentinels as taking more damage than commandos is purely anecdotal and entirely subjective. I have a commando. I have a heavy. I feel like I take more damage in my sentinel. I feel like I survive fire longer in my sentinel due to the HP. I generally base it off of the damage taken stat at the end of the match compared to deaths.
Apocalyptic Destroyer KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 260	Posted - 2015.01.20 02:06:00 - [27] - Quote I don't know..... My Amarr Commando just needs to work. It's too slow and weak. Amarrian In Disguise.. Pain is weakness leaving the body. Proto : ADS Pilot, Tanker, Heavy, Scout, Assault
Diablos Prime duna corp 0	Posted - 2015.01.20 05:47:00 - [28] - Quote I guess I would be the first one to disagree with everyone on here. I would just like the other side of the opinion to be heard. I think the Commandos are OP as is. Granted this is not other games but every other game I have played that even lets you get two main weapons gives you a penalty except in this case. It is faster than any other heavy suit and has more HP than any medium suit. When counter sniping a sniper in a commando suit snipers are at a severe disadvantage both long and short range. As well as commandos have the advantage against medium and light suit if everything else is even; i.e. same weapon, same skills, etc.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4430	Posted - 2015.01.20 07:20:00 - [29] - Quote Diablos Prime wrote: I guess I would be the first one to disagree with everyone on here. I would just like the other side of the opinion to be heard. I think the Commandos are OP as is. Granted this is not other games but every other game I have played that even lets you get two main weapons gives you a penalty except in this case. It is faster than any other heavy suit and has more HP than any medium suit. When counter sniping a sniper in a commando suit snipers are at a severe disadvantage both long and short range. As well as commandos have the advantage against medium and light suit if everything else is even; i.e. same weapon, same skills, etc. As an example: Amarr Commando x3 Complex Plates 250 Shield HP 1045 Armor HP 1295 Total HP 3.3 m/s Movement Speed Amarr Assault x5 Complex Plates 181 Shield HP 1136 Armor HP 1317 Total HP 3.71 m/s Movement Speed So Assault is faster, has more HP, more off-rack slots, a smaller hitbox, more stamina, better scanning stats, a grenade slot, fitting bonuses and weapon support bonuses. Commando has an extra light weapon and 10% more damage. In this case if the Amarr Assault stacks damage mods in its high slots, it ends up with similar damage output to the Commando, so even that bonus is negated. So if you think Commando is OP, then Assault must be even worse, right? "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
Kuruld Sengar Y.A.M.A.H 162	Posted - 2015.01.20 09:00:00 - [30] - Quote Sir Dukey wrote: Currently, everything a commando does- and Assault can do it better. Tis mostly true.

Sir Dukey Murphys-Law General Tso's Alliance 1560	Posted - 2015.01.20 16:21:00 - [31] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Diablos Prime wrote: I guess I would be the first one to disagree with everyone on here. I would just like the other side of the opinion to be heard. I think the Commandos are OP as is. Granted this is not other games but every other game I have played that even lets you get two main weapons gives you a penalty except in this case. It is faster than any other heavy suit and has more HP than any medium suit. When counter sniping a sniper in a commando suit snipers are at a severe disadvantage both long and short range. As well as commandos have the advantage against medium and light suit if everything else is even; i.e. same weapon, same skills, etc. As an example: Amarr Commando x3 Complex Plates 250 Shield HP 1045 Armor HP 1295 Total HP 3.3 m/s Movement Speed Amarr Assault x5 Complex Plates 181 Shield HP 1136 Armor HP 1317 Total HP 3.71 m/s Movement Speed So Assault is faster, has more HP, more off-rack slots, a smaller hitbox, more stamina, better scanning stats, a grenade slot, fitting bonuses and weapon support bonuses. Commando has an extra light weapon and 10% more damage. In this case if the Amarr Assault stacks damage mods in its high slots, it ends up with similar damage output to the Commando, so even that bonus is negated. So if you think Commando is OP, then Assault must be even worse, right? Don't forget that Assaults have better EWAR, same damage output with 2 damage mods (at proto Assault suit has 4 extra slots not including the grenade) and also have a smaller hit box coupled with other weapon bonuses like extended clip and reduction to heat build up. Acquire Currency, Disregard Female Canis lupus familiaris
Diablos Prime RAT PATROL INC. 1	Posted - 2015.01.28 10:11:00 - [32] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Diablos Prime wrote: I guess I would be the first one to disagree with everyone on here. I would just like the other side of the opinion to be heard. I think the Commandos are OP as is. Granted this is not other games but every other game I have played that even lets you get two main weapons gives you a penalty except in this case. It is faster than any other heavy suit and has more HP than any medium suit. When counter sniping a sniper in a commando suit snipers are at a severe disadvantage both long and short range. As well as commandos have the advantage against medium and light suit if everything else is even; i.e. same weapon, same skills, etc. As an example: Amarr Commando x3 Complex Plates 250 Shield HP 1045 Armor HP 1295 Total HP 3.3 m/s Movement Speed Amarr Assault x5 Complex Plates 181 Shield HP 1136 Armor HP 1317 Total HP 3.71 m/s Movement Speed So Assault is faster, has more HP, more off-rack slots, a smaller hitbox, more stamina, better scanning stats, a grenade slot, fitting bonuses and weapon support bonuses. Commando has an extra light weapon and 10% more damage. In this case if the Amarr Assault stacks damage mods in its high slots, it ends up with similar damage output to the Commando, so even that bonus is negated. So if you think Commando is OP, then Assault must be even worse, right? First of all I was talking base stats, by adding the plates you are no longer talking about base stats and that changes the whole conversation.
Jebus McKing Nos Nothi 1321	Posted - 2015.01.28 23:35:00 - [33] - Quote I'm only commando lvl 4 so far but the one thing that I'm really missing is shield regen rate on my MN commando. 18hp/s just isn't good enough. So I'd say let's start small and give them a bit more regen first and see how it turns out. Jebus still hates scans.


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