DUST Search - Proposal to actually make Sniper Rifles decent

Aeon Amadi wrote:

Fizzer XCIV wrote:

Aeon Amadi wrote:

Fizzer XCIV wrote:

Absolute range isn't infinite on any weapons but Large Missile Turrets, and I think they might have even changed that...

For Rifles and Laser it is 250m.
Plasma Cannon and Swarms is 300m.
Those are the ones I know off the top of my head, bit all weapons have a finite absolute range.

Miscommunication on my end. Relative to their optimal range. So if an Assault Rifle has a 40m optimal and 250m absolute, Sniper Rifle would justifiably have infinite absolute range with 'x' optimal to allow for falloff.

Well, it probably wouldn't scale like an AR with like 2500m absolutes.
But I'm for giving snipers a 500m absolute so they can plink at a longer range.

I am really wary of extending the ranges they can effectively kill at, though.
Unless something a bit more, elegant, is done to address redline sniping, I'm kinda against extending their range in any way.

Redline sniping is a circumstance of game mode mechanics and is rather unique to certain maps/game-modes. Ambush does not have this problem for obvious reasons. Domination does, but in a much less impactful way than Skirmish.

Skirmish 1.0 did not have this issue because of progressive movement of attackers in a forward manner.

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Aeon Amadi Chimera Core 7777	Posted - 2015.01.13 00:36:00 - [1] - Quote No-one liked the Uprising 1.0 gun-play mechanics because weapons did -ZERO- damage beyond their intended range and this is exactly why the Sniper Rifles suck right now. We got a nice head-shot multiplier (yay) that we can't really use because the zoom on the rifle sucks (boo) and the hit detection is a travesty (boo). In return higher head-shot damage, we got reduced ranges (boo), and because of that we do zero damage outside of those reduced ranges. Reasons why this is dumb: 1) All your target has to do is backpedal out of your range, then you can't do damage to them. 2) Effectively reduces the amount of tactical locations a sniper can snipe from, further adding to his 'uselessness to the team'. 3) Scope zoom isn't optimal for the ranges these rifles are meant to engage. 4) Range inconsistency between variations forces counter snipers to use certain variants. 5) Range inconsistency between variations forces snipers to not be able to defend themselves from counter snipers using certain variants. 6) Longer range on the Charge Sniper Rifle and higher damage means it's the only one showing up on the killfeed. 7) Rash of forum posts from people who know nothing about sniping but hate being killed by them and still think they're OP. Since we've a resurgence of more Sniper hatred on the forums, I figured I'd weigh in with a proposal to actually make them good. A) Keep the stupid ranges on the rifles (Tactical < Vanilla < Charge). B) Make it their Optimal Range. C) Add in infinite absolute range, just like every other weapon in this game. D) Balance accordingly. This would mean that: - Snipers can shoot each other with variation-based results. - Sniper Rifle gunplay mechanics more familiar to every other weapon (helps new players!) - No more backpedaling for sniper rifle immunity. - More locations for more variants = more fire support for the team. - Redline sniping still discouraged due to lower damages at range - Greater variety in the sniper rifles in the killfeed (no more just seeing 'Charge Sniper Rifle'). - Downside: Probably more non-sniper threads about snipers being OP. Aeon's Links I don't run MinAssault, I run MAXASSAULT
Drecain Midular Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 33	Posted - 2015.01.13 00:45:00 - [2] - Quote No. Snipers suck right now= working as intended. Same as for veichles. Move along.
Operative 1174 Uuali Y.A.M.A.H 298	Posted - 2015.01.13 00:49:00 - [3] - Quote Drecain Midular wrote: No. Snipers suck right now= working as intended. Same as for veichles. Move along. Valid point. Let's just make everything suck then because someone doesn't like that playstyle and call the whole thing off. I'm waiting for this game to completely die GÇô aren't you? I'm better than laser focused; I'm hybrid focused.
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui Onikanabo Brigade Caldari State 1683	Posted - 2015.01.13 00:49:00 - [4] - Quote Typical , the type of attitude that has gotten this game so far as of yet . Doubts are like flies and should be treated as such and crushed .
axis alpha Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 464	Posted - 2015.01.13 00:55:00 - [5] - Quote They are more than decent. I cut you up so bad.... You gonna wish I no cut you up so bad.
Aeon Amadi Chimera Core 7780	Posted - 2015.01.13 00:57:00 - [6] - Quote axis alpha wrote: They are more than decent. Said no Sniper Specialist since 1.9. Aeon's Links I don't run MinAssault, I run MAXASSAULT
LUGMOS Quafe Premium 1487	Posted - 2015.01.13 01:00:00 - [7] - Quote axis alpha wrote: They are more than decent. You're kidding... Right? Official QuafeGäó Advocate Anti-FoTM Prof. V Forum Scavenger Prof. V
Fire of Prometheus Alpha Response Command 5332	Posted - 2015.01.13 01:08:00 - [8] - Quote let me hop on and give it a whirl..ill edit this once i have reached a conclusion King of Commandos - And Dust's #1 best dressed merc. Destiny name - FireofPrometheus PSN- jcptmo8055
Buwaro Draemon WarRavens Capital Punishment. 744	Posted - 2015.01.13 01:12:00 - [9] - Quote Redline snipers are the bane of sniper specialists. But this is more a map flaw than in game mechanics. Changes to Damage mods!
Aeon Amadi Chimera Core 7782	Posted - 2015.01.13 01:13:00 - [10] - Quote Fire of Prometheus wrote: let me hop on and give it a whirl..ill edit this once i have reached a conclusion Start with the Tactical and work your way up. Aeon's Links I don't run MinAssault, I run MAXASSAULT

Fire of Prometheus Alpha Response Command 5335	Posted - 2015.01.13 01:14:00 - [11] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Fire of Prometheus wrote: let me hop on and give it a whirl..ill edit this once i have reached a conclusion Start with the Tactical and work your way up. aight, tactical it is...my ol reliable :p King of Commandos - And Dust's #1 best dressed merc. Destiny name - FireofPrometheus PSN- jcptmo8055
Fizzer XCIV Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 2150	Posted - 2015.01.13 01:15:00 - [12] - Quote Absolute range isn't infinite on any weapons but Large Missile Turrets, and I think they might have even changed that... For Rifles and Laser it is 250m. Plasma Cannon and Swarms is 300m. Those are the ones I know off the top of my head, bit all weapons have a finite absolute range. Home at Last <3
Raptor Princess ALLOTEC INC 124	Posted - 2015.01.13 01:18:00 - [13] - Quote I haven't seen many people using the csr in matches I've played since Christmas. It's mostly the NT-511 and Ishukone, and more Covenants since the packs were released.
Aeon Amadi Chimera Core 7782	Posted - 2015.01.13 01:22:00 - [14] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: Absolute range isn't infinite on any weapons but Large Missile Turrets, and I think they might have even changed that... For Rifles and Laser it is 250m. Plasma Cannon and Swarms is 300m. Those are the ones I know off the top of my head, bit all weapons have a finite absolute range. Miscommunication on my end. Relative to their optimal range. So if an Assault Rifle has a 40m optimal and 250m absolute, Sniper Rifle would justifiably have infinite absolute range with 'x' optimal to allow for falloff. Aeon's Links I don't run MinAssault, I run MAXASSAULT
Fizzer XCIV Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 2152	Posted - 2015.01.13 01:25:00 - [15] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Fizzer XCIV wrote: Absolute range isn't infinite on any weapons but Large Missile Turrets, and I think they might have even changed that... For Rifles and Laser it is 250m. Plasma Cannon and Swarms is 300m. Those are the ones I know off the top of my head, bit all weapons have a finite absolute range. Miscommunication on my end. Relative to their optimal range. So if an Assault Rifle has a 40m optimal and 250m absolute, Sniper Rifle would justifiably have infinite absolute range with 'x' optimal to allow for falloff. Well, it probably wouldn't scale like an AR with like 2500m absolutes. But I'm for giving snipers a 500m absolute so they can plink at a longer range. I am really wary of extending the ranges they can effectively kill at, though. Unless something a bit more, elegant, is done to address redline sniping, I'm kinda against extending their range in any way. Home at Last <3
Aeon Amadi Chimera Core 7784	Posted - 2015.01.13 01:37:00 - [16] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Fizzer XCIV wrote: Absolute range isn't infinite on any weapons but Large Missile Turrets, and I think they might have even changed that... For Rifles and Laser it is 250m. Plasma Cannon and Swarms is 300m. Those are the ones I know off the top of my head, bit all weapons have a finite absolute range. Miscommunication on my end. Relative to their optimal range. So if an Assault Rifle has a 40m optimal and 250m absolute, Sniper Rifle would justifiably have infinite absolute range with 'x' optimal to allow for falloff. Well, it probably wouldn't scale like an AR with like 2500m absolutes. But I'm for giving snipers a 500m absolute so they can plink at a longer range. I am really wary of extending the ranges they can effectively kill at, though. Unless something a bit more, elegant, is done to address redline sniping, I'm kinda against extending their range in any way. Redline sniping is a circumstance of game mode mechanics and is rather unique to certain maps/game-modes. Ambush does not have this problem for obvious reasons. Domination does, but in a much less impactful way than Skirmish. Skirmish 1.0 did not have this issue because of progressive movement of attackers in a forward manner. Aeon's Links I don't run MinAssault, I run MAXASSAULT
Fizzer XCIV Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 2156	Posted - 2015.01.13 01:43:00 - [17] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Fizzer XCIV wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Fizzer XCIV wrote: Absolute range isn't infinite on any weapons but Large Missile Turrets, and I think they might have even changed that... For Rifles and Laser it is 250m. Plasma Cannon and Swarms is 300m. Those are the ones I know off the top of my head, bit all weapons have a finite absolute range. Miscommunication on my end. Relative to their optimal range. So if an Assault Rifle has a 40m optimal and 250m absolute, Sniper Rifle would justifiably have infinite absolute range with 'x' optimal to allow for falloff. Well, it probably wouldn't scale like an AR with like 2500m absolutes. But I'm for giving snipers a 500m absolute so they can plink at a longer range. I am really wary of extending the ranges they can effectively kill at, though. Unless something a bit more, elegant, is done to address redline sniping, I'm kinda against extending their range in any way. Redline sniping is a circumstance of game mode mechanics and is rather unique to certain maps/game-modes. Ambush does not have this problem for obvious reasons. Domination does, but in a much less impactful way than Skirmish. Skirmish 1.0 did not have this issue because of progressive movement of attackers in a forward manner. I don't really think the same... Redline sniping happened in MAG as well. I know because I was one, my AGVK saw many 900m kills from behind a rock by spawn with a bipod. And it definitely had forward movement for attackers. Domination matches were the best for Redline Sniping. Especially Raven Dom, that ship was a feast. Redline Sniping is a byproduct of a broken risk vs reward system for redlines. Not game modes. If there is a way for people to get easynkills without much or any risk to themselves they will abuse it. Home at Last <3
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 18276	Posted - 2015.01.13 01:46:00 - [18] - Quote So do you purpose forge guns should also lose damage over range or the plasma cannon? What about swarms and large missiles? CPM 1 Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior \\= Prototype Forge Gun=// Unlocked
Edau Skir2 Sebiestor Field Sappers Minmatar Republic 274	Posted - 2015.01.13 01:56:00 - [19] - Quote Raptor Princess wrote: I haven't seen many people using the csr in matches I've played since Christmas. It's mostly the NT-511 and Ishukone, and more Covenants since the packs were released. There was a guy using a Csr next to me earlier whilst I was using my NTL-11. Poor guy, I went 11-0 with like 12 assists and he didn't get a single kill. Seeing a Csr user with 60 wp who went 0-0 is....wow. What a waste of sp! Resident pasty smasher
Fizzer XCIV Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 2157	Posted - 2015.01.13 01:59:00 - [20] - Quote Edau Skir2 wrote: Raptor Princess wrote: I haven't seen many people using the csr in matches I've played since Christmas. It's mostly the NT-511 and Ishukone, and more Covenants since the packs were released. There was a guy using a Csr next to me earlier whilst I was using my NT-511. Poor guy, I went 11-0 with like 12 assists and he didn't get a single kill. Seeing a Csr user with 60 wp who went 0-0 is....wow. What a waste of sp! Uh. He sucked? I don't see how it would be possible to get 0 kills for an entire match with a Charged... Just shoot them in the head man! You're practically guaranteed a kill! I almost always get 10+ kills using a Militia Sniper. I just don't see how someone who has skilled all the way to Prototype cant even get a single kill with a Charged, unless they're terrible. Home at Last <3

Operative 1174 Uuali Y.A.M.A.H 305	Posted - 2015.01.13 03:45:00 - [21] - Quote Buwaro Draemon wrote: Redline snipers are the bane of sniper specialists. But this is more a map flaw than in game mechanics. What ppl don't seem to realize is that what is now the redline used to not be. CCP made the maps smaller. You used to have to go outside the redline to snipe. Sue me if I stay at the same places I used to that now happen to be in the redline. Also, why would I want to go anywhere closer when now we have cloaked shotgun ninja scouts? The cloak still works well for getting a sniper. You can't snipe and keep watching for shotgunners. Or rather, why should you? My cornflakes ain't gettin' soggy. I'm better than laser focused; I'm hybrid focused.
Tyjus Vacca Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 314	Posted - 2015.01.13 03:48:00 - [22] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: So do you purpose forge guns should also lose damage over range or the plasma cannon? What about swarms and large missiles? these are not hit scan weapons..... they have different mechanics sniper changes !!? O_o
Timtron Victory Horizons' Edge 255	Posted - 2015.01.13 03:49:00 - [23] - Quote How is 473m on a Thale a bad range? I know a map that is about 300m wide. The range argument is ridiculous. Sniping doesnt mean that you sit on one spot for 20 mins. There are more than one objective to camp against. Snipers just dont want to deal with risk. Dust Weekly Lottery Proud Christian Jesus Loves You
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 1673	Posted - 2015.01.13 03:51:00 - [24] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: - No more backpedaling for sniper rifle immunity. Backpedaling (walking backwards) confers immunity to nova knives and, to a lesser degree, shotguns. How does this apply to sniper rifle range?
Union118 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 280	Posted - 2015.01.13 03:53:00 - [25] - Quote Operative 1174 Uuali wrote: Drecain Midular wrote: No. Snipers suck right now= working as intended. Same as for veichles. Move along. Valid point. Let's just make everything suck then because someone doesn't like that playstyle and call the whole thing off. I'm waiting for this game to completely die GÇô aren't you? Ill be honest I wish the game died like yesterday. But while its on ill continue to put threads up to make people laugh, cry, and angry. Who knows I might even get a thread for valentines day and make another dating service thread. Starter Fit Suits are OP :-)
Joel II X Bacon with a bottle of Quafe 5465	Posted - 2015.01.13 04:06:00 - [26] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: axis alpha wrote: They are more than decent. Said no Sniper Specialist since 1.9. You must go against plenty of Thale's while inside your Starter Frontline...
Aeon Amadi Chimera Core 7791	Posted - 2015.01.13 04:59:00 - [27] - Quote Timtron Victory wrote: How is 473m on a Thale a bad range? I know a map that is about 300m wide. The range argument is ridiculous. Sniping doesnt mean that you sit on one spot for 20 mins. There are more than one objective to camp against. Snipers just dont want to deal with risk. Says the guy that wants the range to be 50m lol. The range argument is -not- ridiculous because there are maps that are far greater than 300m. Skim Junction by itself is 300m from the MCC just to the first objective. The "snipers don't want to deal with risk" is inversely appropriate as well. If the range is decreased than one could easily say that the snipers' targets don't want to deal with risk. And if you think a sniper's job is to camp objectives then you've already shown the extent of your bias toward snipers in general. Vitantur Nothus wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: - No more backpedaling for sniper rifle immunity. Backpedaling (walking backwards) confers immunity to nova knives and, to a lesser degree, shotguns. How does this apply to sniper rifle range? Try not to think as just a Scout and consider the maximum range of a Tactical Sniper Rifle and you might learn a thing or two. Aeon's Links I don't run MinAssault, I run MAXASSAULT
Jathniel G I A N T 1409	Posted - 2015.01.13 06:56:00 - [28] - Quote You're fighting a losing battle, Aeon. Almost every other shooter, a sniper has a place and is both hated and valued. Here it doesn't exist, on merit of whining. God forbid these voices have a place in any potential future iterations of this game. Retired
Aeon Amadi Chimera Core 7799	Posted - 2015.01.13 07:24:00 - [29] - Quote Jathniel wrote: You're fighting a losing battle, Aeon. Almost every other shooter, a sniper has a place and is both hated and valued. Here it doesn't exist, on merit of whining. God forbid these voices have a place in any potential future iterations of this game. Losing battles are my specialty if you haven't guessed yet x3 Aeon's Links I don't run MinAssault, I run MAXASSAULT
George Moros RestlessSpirits 427	Posted - 2015.01.13 09:49:00 - [30] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: A) Keep the stupid ranges on the rifles (Tactical < Vanilla < Charge). Charge has the best range of all sniper variants? When did that happen? I've been absent from DUST for a while... Pulvereus ergo queritor.



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