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If RE's are going to be Anti-Infantry

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Luna McDuffing COALICION LATINA Smart Deploy 137	Posted - 2015.01.06 14:13:00 - [61] - Quote If there is one thing I hate is RE. I just plain hate them. I hate them more probably because sometimes you can hide them behind assets because of some sort of glitch so unless you have a scanner you can't see them. I mean, it is ok to hide them since they are supposed to be a booby trap. What it is not ok is being able to hide them where it is physically impossible to hide them. All that being said i do not find any problems with either heavys nor remote explosives. If I where to do an adjustment it would be that RE should have to be restocked the same way as nanohives and droplinks. I hate it when someone just drops a nanohive and rains down RE all day. I don't have any complaint about heavies. Yes, they have a lot of HP and yes the HMG is powerful BUUUTTT!!!!!! it is only good at close range. I can outscout or out maneuver a heavy with my gallente logy or scout as long as I don't get too close. Heavys are awful in any open space due to their slow speed. In sumarry the only change I would like to see is changing the RE resocking so that you can't simply walk ass a nanohive and restock. other than that this game is very close to being balance.
Prius Vecht Red and Silver Hand Amarr Empire 405	Posted - 2015.01.06 15:16:00 - [62] - Quote the OP is right. no one with a brain thinks REs should do anything close to the damage of prox mines.
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 1513	Posted - 2015.01.06 15:30:00 - [63] - Quote Prius Vecht wrote: the OP is right. no one with a brain thinks REs should do anything close to the damage of prox mines. My half-brained response would be to buff Prox mines.
lee corwood Knights Of Ender RISE of LEGION 1085	Posted - 2015.01.06 15:43:00 - [64] - Quote Boot Booter wrote: REs are complete BS. They take no skill, please stop saying they do. They definitely should not restock at nanohives. With that said there is not many ways to counter a pack of heavies and logis other than using a larger pack of heavies and logis. Don't blame heavies though. Blame the rep tool. The rep tool is ridiculously OP for both its effectiveness and it's WP awarded. It needs a capacitor for sure and perhaps a nerf to amount of WP. You don't use the rep tool do you... Knights of Ender Director Logi 4 Life \| Youtube Vids
Kallas Hallytyr Skullbreakers 1224	Posted - 2015.01.06 16:43:00 - [65] - Quote Leadfoot10 wrote: EWAR Scouts with REs are difficult to counter. I can understand the rage. The biggest issue remains the awful state of scan stats: Assaults/Commandos/Sentinels need to sacrifice a ton to fit anything vaguely resembling decent scan stats, while Logis still need a bunch of precision to be worthwhile. Not to mention the insane reduction to Range Amps: they were garbage on anything bar Scouts before the 1.10 changes, now they're simply awful on everyone (less from a PRO mod now than a STD mod then, wtf?!) Essentially, all suits need their scan stats brought a bit closer together (keeping some distance, but not enormous ones) combined with some bonuses being changed to module efficacy bonuses instead (looking at Scout scan bonuses primarily, but also things like Sentinel resistance bonuses when we finally get resistance modules.) Leadfoot10 wrote: That said, I've always been a fan of implementing an animation similar to the way a logi needles a friendly when placing an RE, that way they become more of a trap and less of a smart grenade. An RE placement animation would be good, it would also prevent the Sprint-Jump-Lob nonsense. It shouldn't be a long one, but it should be noticeable. Although I'd be worried about the effect it'd have on the placement of Packed REs on vehicles: they're already nigh impossible to get a hold of - maybe if HAVs actually had acceleration and momentum instead of going from 0-40 in 0.00001s? Buwaro Draemon wrote: I just hate how they can be tossed for farther distances, do more damage than grenades, and br able yo restock them at Nanohives There is absolutely no reason for REs to be restocked from Nanohives. As much as they are used like weapons, they are equipment and should follow the same guidelines as such. Alternatively we could: - Make all equipment restock from Hives/Depots - Make all equipment regenerate at a slow rate, while removing Hive restocking - Some combination of the above. Personally, I feel that we should have more carried of pretty much everything and make all equipment restock at a Depot like ammo does. Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 1513	Posted - 2015.01.06 16:55:00 - [66] - Quote Kallas Hallytyr wrote: Leadfoot10 wrote: EWAR Scouts with REs are difficult to counter. I can understand the rage. The biggest issue remains the awful state of scan stats: Assaults/Commandos/Sentinels need to sacrifice a ton to fit anything vaguely resembling decent scan stats, while Logis still need a bunch of precision to be worthwhile. A proto CalScout running straight complex shield extenders has the same HP as a CalAssault with no modules equipped. Compared to the Scout, each of the suits above come prefit with a ton of fitting. If a non-Scout wants Scout-like EWAR, is it too much to ask of him of dedicate his fit to doing so?
Kallas Hallytyr Skullbreakers 1224	Posted - 2015.01.06 17:05:00 - [67] - Quote Vitantur Nothus wrote: Kallas Hallytyr wrote: Leadfoot10 wrote: EWAR Scouts with REs are difficult to counter. I can understand the rage. The biggest issue remains the awful state of scan stats: Assaults/Commandos/Sentinels need to sacrifice a ton to fit anything vaguely resembling decent scan stats, while Logis still need a bunch of precision to be worthwhile. A proto CalScout running straight complex shield extenders has the same HP as a CalAssault with no modules equipped. Compared to the Scout, each of the suits above come prefit with a ton of fitting. Your point being...? My point was that to even utilise the scan stats of an Assault against other Assaults or even Heavies without getting within 3" of them you need to put on a bunch of modules (some of which just got hammered into the ground.) Seriously, a 20m scan with a 75db precision? Seriously? That's 750.9 = 67.5 (not detecting a Sentinel, base) 0.8 = 54, which will pick up a Sentinel from 20m away. Ok, sounds great...except 20m away is nothing, that's half of the HMG's optimal range and barely useable: that's picking up only heavy frames from a short distance. If you want to pick anything up from a decent range you'll need at least two PEs (750.90.8*0.828 = 44.7) and at minimum Range Amp 5 (for a 30m far scan) while Range Amps themselves are pretty ghastly (1 CxRA is 4.5m on that Assault's scan...whoopdeedoo!) Frankly, scanning is a mess: the concentric circles are great to have as a mechanic in the game, but are awful in application, because they have changed nothing bar make/keep everyone blind unless you use an Active Scanner. Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 1513	Posted - 2015.01.06 17:14:00 - [68] - Quote Kallas Hallytyr wrote: Your point being...? We've no reason to believe that the Scout remains overpowered; there's no reason to further marginalize what remaining strengths the Scout has;. The Scout cannot rival the staying power of other units. Other units should not rival the Scout's strength at EWAR. Kallas Hallytyr wrote: Frankly, scanning is a mess: the concentric circles are great to have as a mechanic in the game, but are awful in application, because they have changed nothing bar make/keep everyone blind unless you use an Active Scanner. Yes, but it could've been alot worse. Imagine what the game would be like if the Heavy+Logi blob were granted unbeatable, longer range passive scans. "Balanced" does not come to mind.
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 1514	Posted - 2015.01.06 17:25:00 - [69] - Quote On the topic of REs, I believe Rattati intended to assign them a scan profile so they could be detected by close range passive scans. This defeats the purpose of REs as traps, but that's beside the point. Pretty sure it isn't working as intended; I've yet to scan a single Remote Explosive even when running Precision Enhanced Scouts.
Kallas Hallytyr Skullbreakers 1225	Posted - 2015.01.06 17:29:00 - [70] - Quote Vitantur Nothus wrote: We've no reason to believe that the Scout remains overpowered; there's no reason to further marginalize or gift away what remaining strengths it has. The Scout cannot rival the staying power of other units. Other units should not rival the Scout's strength at EWAR. Well, there's no reason to keep the non-module bonuses: it doesn't impact 'true' Scouts, and can potentially lead to a buff either in the bonuses given/in other areas to support the changes if need. Most other bonuses on suits are based on the usage of specific equipment (Assaults using racial weapons; Commandos using specific damage types) - why not Scouts? Why shouldn't they need to use the modules to get the benefit? This isn't about nerfing Scouts, it's about uniformity of application: similarly, Sentinels should be required to use resistance modules (if and/or when we get them.) As far as slaying power is concerned, that is entirely disputable: as far as damage output is concerned, only the Sentinel (because of Heavy weapon access) and Commando (because of the damage bonus) can be considered more slayer-y since the Scout does not do less damage than an Assault or Logi: simply it is less sustainable to fight, which is pretty appropriate. Vitantur Nothus wrote: Yes, but it could've been alot worse. Imagine what the game would be like today if the Heavy+Logi blob had been granted the unbeatable, long range passive scans originally pitched by Cat Merc and Zatara. "Balanced" does not come to mind. Could have been worse does not mean that we shouldn't strive for better. The system currently is a step in the right direction, but the numbers need further poking. Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.

Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 1514	Posted - 2015.01.06 17:56:00 - [71] - Quote Kallas Hallytyr wrote: Well, there's no reason to keep the non-module bonuses: it doesn't impact 'true' Scouts, and can potentially lead to a buff either in the bonuses given/in other areas to support the changes if need. Most other bonuses on suits are based on the usage of specific equipment (Assaults using racial weapons; Commandos using specific damage types) - why not Scouts? Why shouldn't they need to use the modules to get the benefit? Efficacy bonuses would've been a great way to cure Assault Lite; we suggested efficacy bonuses to Rattati prior to Hotfix Charlie. Assault Lite has since been cured, though through other means. EWAR-module based efficacy bonuses today wouldn't work; competitive passive scans were ruled to be "360 wallhacks" and massively diluted; the recon scout has been replaced by the Active Scanner. It would make more sense to replace the GA Logi bonus, then give AM/GA/CA Scouts different efficacy bonuses to Active Scanners. Kallas Hallytyr wrote: As far as slaying power is concerned, that is entirely disputable: as far as damage output is concerned, only the Sentinel (because of Heavy weapon access) and Commando (because of the damage bonus) can be considered more slayer-y since the Scout does not do less damage than an Assault or Logi: simply it is less sustainable to fight, which is pretty appropriate. I wrote staying power (as in ability to withstand damage). Sure, a competent Scout can slay to degree, but he can't take much of a beating. Vitantur Nothus wrote: Yes, but it could've been alot worse. Imagine what the game would be like today if the Heavy+Logi blob had been granted the unbeatable, long range passive scans originally pitched by Cat Merc and Zatara. "Balanced" does not come to mind. Could have been worse does not mean that we shouldn't strive for better. The system currently is a step in the right direction, but the numbers need further poking.[/quote] Agreed, though I don't know what to suggest. Stronger inner rings would render shotguns and knives ineffective; this may sounds great to some, but imbalance shouldn't be a design goal.
DDx77 The Exemplars RISE of LEGION 70	Posted - 2015.01.06 18:01:00 - [72] - Quote RE's are anti-infantry and they are fine. The last nerf/delay is a bad idea (I don't even know if it's working ) I agree THEY SHOULD NOT BE RESTOCKED BY A NANOHIVE but honestly, how many of your deaths are from RE's? The people that complain about them act like there is a plague of RE's everywhere I play everyday and I think I've died maybe three times in the past two weeks from them I run mostly assault or a scout as assault If you run a heavy you should expect to die from a RE more often
Buwaro Draemon WarRavens Capital Punishment. 637	Posted - 2015.01.06 18:08:00 - [73] - Quote DDx77 wrote: RE's are anti-infantry and they are fine. The last nerf/delay is a bad idea (I don't even know if it's working ) I agree THEY SHOULD NOT BE RESTOCKED BY A NANOHIVE but honestly, how many of your deaths are from RE's? The people that complain about them act like there is a plague of RE's everywhere I play everyday and I think I've died maybe three times in the past two weeks from them I run mostly assault or a scout as assault If you run a heavy you should expect to die from a RE more often Normal RE's are Anti-infantry And this is not about dying 24/7 to them. This is about them being more efficient, and better than a grenade. Rattati said that the RE's should be for trap placements and booby traps. Not running infront of an enemy, tossing them and blowing them up. If people want to toss them like rag dolls around, it's damage should be brought down near to a core locus grenade. If people want to use them for trap placement? It should stay as it is. Grenades should be the ones being tossed at infantry. Not RE's. BUT I do think that making them restock at a supply depot would stop people from raining them down from high areas. Changes to Damage mods!
Ydubbs81 RND Ahrendee Mercenaries 3689	Posted - 2015.01.06 18:27:00 - [74] - Quote Will also have to nerf other OHK weapons like nova knives and melee.....REs aren't the only cheesy way scouts annoy people on the battlefield. So, I don't think this nerf would happen. Shield tanking is hard mode /period. > Check RND out here
Ydubbs81 RND Ahrendee Mercenaries 3689	Posted - 2015.01.06 18:28:00 - [75] - Quote DDx77 wrote: RE's are anti-infantry and they are fine. The last nerf/delay is a bad idea (I don't even know if it's working ) I agree THEY SHOULD NOT BE RESTOCKED BY A NANOHIVE but honestly, how many of your deaths are from RE's? The people that complain about them act like there is a plague of RE's everywhere I play everyday and I think I've died maybe three times in the past two weeks from them I run mostly assault or a scout as assault If you run a heavy you should expect to die from a RE more often Scouts use them big time in pcs. REs are their primary weapon of choice....well, that and nova knives. Shield tanking is hard mode /period. > Check RND out here
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 5042	Posted - 2015.01.06 18:53:00 - [76] - Quote I think we are getting into too many scenarios and over-complicatiing things. Frisbee RE's have always been lame, better than grenades, and will continue to be even if you do whatever kind of ewar and sentinel balancing you think needs to be done. This should be a 2 page thread at most. Nerfing damage makes RE's useless. Are you going to rapidly toss three of them (while moving to get the distance), pray they hit the same spot, and detonate without getting killed first? Unlikely. Also, have fun using up all of your bandwidth to lay a single trap. If the coding allows it, make them 'heavy' so they don't travel very far when deployed. Alternately, make an animation or hacking wheel for dropping them. Should be relatively short, and I'd favor a hacking wheel as we all know how well the animation for needles has worked out historically. Either way, make no other changes and exclude the packed ones. Done and done. (The godfather of tactical logistics)


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