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[Idea] Active Resource Extraction for Planetary Conquest

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Kain Spero Goonfeet 4062	Posted - 2014.12.28 05:13:00 - [1] - Quote Active Resource Extraction Game Mode Goal: To add dynamic timerless gameplay to Planetary Conquest and give Dust a more open-world feel. Also, to add resource production to districts that makes ownership desirable while scaling rewards with effort required to extract those resources. Secondary Goal: Make numbers matter and give GÇ£B/CGÇ¥ teams a purpose in Planetary Conquest. This game mode would make use of either skirmish or domination (ideally the rotating point domination game mode that CCP has discussed before) to limit the expense of adding this feature to Planetary Conquest and minimize developer resources required as much as possible. District Owner Spawned Extraction: In order to extract resources from a district an owning corporation must fire up an extraction match on their district X times a week while the district is online. (Optional Rule: the owners must have a Corp Barge within X jumps of the district to spin up the match.) The owners join the match and hack the objective and every time the null fires X% of the district resources are extracted. When this match is spun up either corporations that own a Warbarge or a Warbarge within X jumps sees the match become available in GÇ£Other ContractsGÇ¥ or in GÇ£Corporate ContractsGÇ¥. They can then join the match kill the enemy and hack the point. Every time the capture null cannon fires X% of the district resources go instead to the invaders as long as they maintain control. Once all of the district resources are expended for the extraction the match ends. Attacker Spawned Raid: If a district owner has not spun up an extraction match and a corporation has a barge within X jumps they can pull up a menu that lists districts that can be raided for the district resources. The raider choose a district that is online and in the district window and spins up a match. The raider hacks the objective and every fire of the null cannon extracts X% of resources. The district owners are notified that their district is being raided via a notification and scramble a team to intercept. They load into the match and attempt to hack the point for themselves. The null cannon continues to fire giving resources to whoever holds the point until the resources are expended and the match ends. Clones in Extraction Clones available in a match could be based either on the district, standard 150 clones per side, or the Warbarges involved in the match if one is required by both the attacker and defender. Optional Aspect: Free For All To make this game mode more dynamic if technically possible it could be set to Free For All with the resources extracted based which squad has control. If a corporation has enough numbers they could fill an entire extraction match or raid themselves although the district owner might be allowed. There would be no redline present and spawns would be available around the perimeter of the map and available to any squad that joins. The advantage to allowing a free for all type game mode would be to give a more dynamic gameplay experience and make the game feel more open world. When raiding or extracting this would give the sense that danger could be just around the corner. Optional Aspect: No SP In Extraction Mode To prevent extracting matches from being used for boosting potentially remove active SP from these matches. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news
Big Burns Harbingers of Desolation 255	Posted - 2014.12.28 05:23:00 - [2] - Quote If you build it, they will come. Kain Spero for GM of Dust514.
Kallas Hallytyr Skullbreakers 1216	Posted - 2014.12.28 09:47:00 - [3] - Quote Sounds good. I'd play it. Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
Vulpes Dolosus Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2723	Posted - 2014.12.28 10:18:00 - [4] - Quote Playing devil's advocate, just finding ways to break this. Honestly it looks like a good idea, just some kinks. Biggest thing I see is a return of the district-locking problem. Basically, a district-owning corp can either instigate a battle and have a friendly corp occupy the attacker slot to prevent other combatants from attacking, or they can give intel to a "renter-corp" as to when the district goes public so they attack without resistance. Dust is there! I was real! Dear diary, Rattati senpai noticed me today~
Kain Spero Goonfeet 4064	Posted - 2014.12.28 10:31:00 - [5] - Quote Vulpes Dolosus wrote: Playing devil's advocate, just finding ways to break this. Honestly it looks like a good idea, just some kinks. Biggest thing I see is a return of the district-locking problem. Basically, a district-owning corp can either instigate a battle and have a friendly corp occupy the attacker slot to prevent other combatants from attacking, or they can give intel to a "renter-corp" as to when the district goes public so they attack without resistance. One of the reasons I think, if it's technically possible, to make extractions free-for-all and resources go to the squad in control of the point(s). If you have the numbers to fill up 32 slots for a single district extraction so be it. Also, these matches would just be for the resources and the district would have to be online, so if someone is trying to farm you could attack it outright to flip the land itself. I think something to really make this kind of mode work would be to see how Corp-owned barges could be tied into the system. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news
Jaysyn Larrisen OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1426	Posted - 2014.12.28 11:42:00 - [6] - Quote I like it...it's rough and there definetly needs to polish put into it but it might very well be a viable option. One thing I do think is critical would be needed a corp warbarge within a fairly constrained distance from the planet...this would be a key governor on small outfits trying to control too much territory. If your corp is big enough and you can afford enough warbarge, not to mention the players to defend all the turf then fine. As for the matches, one way to help reduce the locking / boosting potential is to have them pull up under public contracts and anyone with a warbarge within striking distance gets a shot at you for a "resource raid". If you don't have a warbarge close or your corp isn't big enough to have one you get an ISK reward valued at 2x the standard pub amount awarded from the defending corp wallet. "Endless money forms the sinews of War." - Cicero Skype: jaysyn.larrisen Twitter: @JaysynLarrisen
Kain Spero Goonfeet 4071	Posted - 2014.12.28 19:58:00 - [7] - Quote I agree that if districts have some upkeep associated with them then it makes sense that interactions like paying someone to extract resources would be a natural development. I think the players could handle their own 'contract' system initially but eventually having one put in place for all kinds of interactions would be fantastic. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4221	Posted - 2014.12.28 20:18:00 - [8] - Quote With that said, the ability to issue in-game contracts for all of these new systems would most certainly be a huge benefit. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4224	Posted - 2014.12.28 22:15:00 - [9] - Quote It's an interesting idea to say the least. The idea of using the Null Cannons to fire packages of resources up into orbit for extraction is a neat idea, so that's a creative way to make the whole Null Cannon bit make sense. I like it. I will ask a couple questions. 1. About how long do you expect this extraction process to last for a contested and non-contested extraction? 2. About how often do you think a corp will need to launch an extraction mission in order to prevent the enemy from launching a raid? "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
Kain Spero Goonfeet 4072	Posted - 2014.12.28 22:46:00 - [10] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: It's an interesting idea to say the least. The idea of using the Null Cannons to fire packages of resources up into orbit for extraction is a neat idea, so that's a creative way to make the whole Null Cannon bit make sense. I like it. I will ask a couple questions. 1. About how long do you expect this extraction process to last for a contested and non-contested extraction? 2. About how often do you think a corp will need to launch an extraction mission in order to prevent the enemy from launching a raid? 1. With the null cannons firing a X% of resources each time the match duration would be the same no matter who holds the null canons once they are hacked. I would imagine the length of the match would be similar to a redlined Domination or Skirmish match. 2. I originally saw it as soon as a district is online that has resources stockpiled if an enemy has a barge in range they would be able to raid it. I'm not sure if a extract or lose it process or a rollover process for district resources would be better. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news

Big Burns Harbingers of Desolation 259	Posted - 2014.12.28 23:15:00 - [11] - Quote Kain speaks and puts smiles on dust bunnies faces'. CCP Rogue speaks and someone has to wipe the drool off his chin. Kain Spero for GM of Dust514.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4227	Posted - 2014.12.29 00:24:00 - [12] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: 1. With the null cannons firing a X% of resources each time the match duration would be the same no matter who holds the null canons once they are hacked. I would imagine the length of the match would be similar to a redlined Domination or Skirmish match. 2. I originally saw it as soon as a district is online that has resources stockpiled if an enemy has a barge in range they would be able to raid it. I'm not sure if a extract or lose it process or a rollover process for district resources would be better. Well my immediate concern is...how easy is it for the enemy to just steal my resources simply because the match time is too short and not enough time to counter it. I mean even if your reaction time is 5 minutes, an enemy corp could be well entrenched in all the objectives and it could be impossible to push them out within that 5 minutes. I think the owning corp would need to neglect the district in order to allow it to be raided, otherwise you're just going to spend all of your time staring at the special contracts because even a few minutes of showing up late, and you're getting all of your stuff stolen. I'm all for letting people steal other people's stuff...but you need more limitations so defenders don't lost all profitability simply because its too hard to defend their assets. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
Kain Spero Goonfeet 4076	Posted - 2014.12.29 01:00:00 - [13] - Quote This is partially one of the reasons I'd like a barge to be in play for the raiding force, so the raiders would need to be in position or within X jumps of the district to conduct a raid. I wouldn't get too wrapped up in match length since you could have the % per null cannon shot varied. I do think you could be onto something about a district being ignored before being raided. I could see an extraction match always being able to be interrupted by an attacking force in range, but an enemy initiated raid needing certain conditions before being allowed. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 5597	Posted - 2014.12.29 04:17:00 - [14] - Quote Jaysyn Larrisen wrote: I like it...it's rough and there definetly needs polish put into it but it might very well be a viable option. One thing I do think is critical would be needing a corp warbarge within a fairly constrained distance from the planet...this would be a key governor on small outfits trying to control too much territory. If your corp is big enough and you can afford enough warbarge, not to mention the players to defend all the turf then fine. As for the matches, one way to help reduce the locking / boosting potential is to have them pull up under special contracts and anyone with a warbarge within striking distance gets a shot at you for a "resource raid". If you don't have a warbarge close or your corp isn't big enough to have one you still see the district target in special contracts and you get an ISK reward valued at 2x the standard pub amount taken from the defending corp wallet. The logical step after this would be a simple contract system that allowed you to front ISK for merc squads to attack an opponent in his "upkeep" matches or pay folks to defend. Just a thought on the number of upkeep matches per week...recommend you have a base number and some minor relationship to distance from the corp warbarges that factor in a few more or less matches per week. I'd probably end up in gamer AA if they made something like this happen. Low payouts ensure that only the best are running decent gear.
james jared Titans of Phoenix 68	Posted - 2014.12.29 05:59:00 - [15] - Quote Kane I give u a +1 for this idea. Since they r on the same timer as the district it would make it so ur corp would need more ppl to be "PC" ready and leaders that r unshore of some of the players a "safer" place to test them players and train the new comers. And adding more things for a corp starting to get into PC a place to train there players in the aspects of PC like good team work, Point holding ect. And overall increasing the ppl involved in PC. A lot would depend on how warbarges end up working. I see a lot of ways this could help out PC. Crate more use out of districts. Make PC not a big isk sink hole like it is now. With some fine tuning of corse. It would have to be built so that it dose not just turn into another way for corps to farm isk. If there is a way ppl will use and abuse it.
Kain Spero Goonfeet 4092	Posted - 2014.12.29 16:29:00 - [16] - Quote Pokey, I was thinking more about the neglect of a district opening you up to an attacker initiated raid. What if when you don't extract the resources pile up on the district and once they hit a certain amount the district is opened up to attacker initiated raids. If possible I see these working better as free for all matches so the Raiders could even be attacked by the district owner or another raider group. Throw in a keep what you kill and you have some effective conflict drives. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 6043	Posted - 2014.12.29 18:29:00 - [17] - Quote THis sounds like something I'd actually wake up and smell the coffee for. Stealing other peoples' hard-earned moongoo/ISK/Resources/**** stash? I'm down. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4239	Posted - 2014.12.29 18:30:00 - [18] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: Pokey, I was thinking more about the neglect of a district opening you up to an attacker initiated raid. What if when you don't extract the resources pile up on the district and once they hit a certain amount the district is opened up to attacker initiated raids. If possible I see these working better as free for all matches so the Raiders could even be attacked by the district owner or another raider group. Throw in a keep what you kill and you have some effective conflict drives. I think that if a corporation is diligent in maintaining its assets, it can be free from being actively attacked (though it may have to defend in the process of extracting). However if they are sloppy and let too many resources pile up, then I think leaving them open for attack is reasonable. They key is making extraction risky and time consuming but not making it a complete chore either. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
Lady MDK Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire 235	Posted - 2014.12.29 19:11:00 - [19] - Quote I don't do PC (you can probably tell) but if I did I might want it to work a bit like this... First things first.. Planetary management and raids - The structures on the planet would produce something. something useful to us or to EVE, be it clones or materials or something. The person in charge of planet 6 (im going to call him BOB) in some system or other must arrange for some of the materials produced to be moved to a store/orbital tether/Factory at some point each week/Day. At first I thought it might be cool for someone to drive a truck full of stuff a bit like in eve, but this is an FPS at heart (even if its supposed to be an mmo) and no FPS player wants to drive a truck delivering goods from point a to point b. So for this task to be done BOB our planetary overlord must set an event for this to occur each day or each week (at a cost of course) each event moves a certain amount of stuff to the store/orbital tether the more stuff builds up the more runs are required. This is a bit like routing in EVE's Pi system but becomes an actual event on the server (you will see why soon). So you set events to move stuff around your planet.. Raw materials from extraction to refinery refined materials to factory components to weapons lab weapons to storehouse etc in order to make stuff... each of these movements in an event. And at the end of it all you have a stock pile of weapons or clones or vehicles etc or maybe there is something that comes from planets that eve pilots can use (one idea I had was the materials for stargates which CCP have said they want to make player built) which we could sell to eve players so they can build. So each of these events is a EVENT - i use the term event rather than match as it isnt your usual 16 v 16 as i have mentioned in another thread. Its an EVENT. So for the last 3 weeks BOB has got a squad together and escorted some of his traffic around the place by joining the server EVENT. Its been quiet and the stuff has always gotten to its destination. So this week BOB cant be bothered, under some circumstances this might be ok. If BOB checked the starmap to make sure there were no hostile warbarges about everything would have been ok. But on this particular week BOB was on holiday and didnt tell anyone. A warbarge from a neighbouring faction was in the system next door and its pilot had noticed that BOB wasn't there at the time his event normally happened. With a call to his squad BOB's hostile neighbour jumped to BOB's planet and joined the server event. He found the NPC truck half way through its run to the orbital tether and easily caught upto it with a group of dropships and attacked crippling the vehicle which only has light guns. Some of the cargo was destroyed in the attack but BOB's neighbours made it off the planet again within 10 minutes with a haul of plasma cannons and rifles (ok pulling at strings here). An automatic call would have gone out to BOB's colleages when the raiders landed on the planet to defend. But it would depend on available resources responding. Maybe there are other events as well - like Salvaging. The wreck of the hauler above leaves salvage scattered over the area. An event is spawned where salvagers can enter the area if they are close-by in their warbarge to pick throug the scrap and loot the field. Again a warning would go out and it would be upto the owners to respond to the incursion. Looting - each storehouse with equipment over a certain level would also become a server event. It would show up that there was an excess of equipment in the location and people would be able to attack and steal stuff and return it to their camp for pickup. Again a call would go out and the owners would be able to respond. The main reason I say server event rather than a match is that these instances might start off with no one but the attackers (or the defenders if they are escorting the truck in the one case) but others can join and try to drive them off and loot the area you would have to commit a small supply of clones to the task and one gone they are gone. Anyone getting annoyed by reading of the above post should consider the following. I don't care so neither should you :)
Kain Spero Goonfeet 4095	Posted - 2014.12.29 20:43:00 - [20] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Kain Spero wrote: Pokey, I was thinking more about the neglect of a district opening you up to an attacker initiated raid. What if when you don't extract the resources pile up on the district and once they hit a certain amount the district is opened up to attacker initiated raids. If possible I see these working better as free for all matches so the Raiders could even be attacked by the district owner or another raider group. Throw in a keep what you kill and you have some effective conflict drives. I think that if a corporation is diligent in maintaining its assets, it can be free from being actively attacked (though it may have to defend in the process of extracting). However if they are sloppy and let too many resources pile up, then I think leaving them open for attack is reasonable. They key is making extraction risky and time consuming but not making it a complete chore either. I have to agree that a balance needs to be struck between Risk and Chore level. IWS made another good point that you could have X mins before the extraction or raid starts once it is declared, and in the case of a raid a notification sent to the district owner. I could see this playing out as X mins before the barge opens for the match and then X mins for a barge timer. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news

james jared Titans of Phoenix 73	Posted - 2014.12.29 20:49:00 - [21] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Kain Spero wrote: Pokey, I was thinking more about the neglect of a district opening you up to an attacker initiated raid. What if when you don't extract the resources pile up on the district and once they hit a certain amount the district is opened up to attacker initiated raids. If possible I see these working better as free for all matches so the Raiders could even be attacked by the district owner or another raider group. Throw in a keep what you kill and you have some effective conflict drives. I think that if a corporation is diligent in maintaining its assets, it can be free from being actively attacked (though it may have to defend in the process of extracting). However if they are sloppy and let too many resources pile up, then I think leaving them open for attack is reasonable. They key is making extraction risky and time consuming but not making it a complete chore either. I have to agree that a balance needs to be struck between Risk and Chore level. IWS made another good point that you could have X mins before the extraction or raid starts once it is declared, and in the case of a raid a notification sent to the district owner. I could see this playing out as X mins before the barge opens for the match and then X mins for a barge timer. Yes I agree this gives the defender a bit of time to see that the raid has started and to through a team together quick but not make it so the attacker will always be in the match before u notice it is even happening
Zindorak G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 1449	Posted - 2014.12.29 21:52:00 - [22] - Quote I don't know about the sp but thats fun Pokemon master and Tekken Lord Give me da iskiez Gk0 Scout yay :)
Kain Spero Goonfeet 4096	Posted - 2014.12.29 22:13:00 - [23] - Quote Lady MDK, I think the spirit of your ideas are good. If it's technically possible I'd like these extraction matches in the OP to be free for alls similar to how you describe these server events. I think the key is getting more open and free form gameplay even if we end up having to repurpose skirmish or domination game modes. I think 32 player maximums is going to be a limit for as long as we are on the PS3. The fewer new art assests needed to pull off active resource extraction the more likely I think we'll be to see it happen. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news
Kain Spero Goonfeet 4099	Posted - 2014.12.30 05:41:00 - [24] - Quote Zindorak wrote: I don't know about the sp but thats fun I'm not really sure if no SP for these matches would really be needed you are right. When it comes to PC you do have to look at potential boosting issues. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news
Kain Spero Goonfeet 4105	Posted - 2014.12.30 15:11:00 - [25] - Quote OP has been updated to reflect community feedback regarding this concept. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news
Sigberct Amni Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 813	Posted - 2014.12.31 22:35:00 - [26] - Quote As a goon, i support asymmetrical warfare in any form that can also fit into the circle that 'FPS' takes up on the venn diagram. Kane's idea's look legit. Instead of no SP inside the matches, i suggest tying sp gain to resources extracted. So long as the opposing warbarge for either attacking or defending side stays open for new joiners the whole time resources are being extracted.
Kain Spero Negative-Feedback 4464	Posted - 2015.01.30 14:20:00 - [27] - Quote Looking at some of the suggestions in the main PC thread I think adding revenge attacks against raiders may need to be included in this kind of system. I'm not certain about that though. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news
Kain Spero Negative-Feedback. 4963	Posted - 2015.04.07 17:52:00 - [28] - Quote This is probably more relevant now with the acquisition game mode announced. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news


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Give me da iskiez

Gk0 Scout yay :)