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hn617
Algintal Core
Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2014.12.14 20:32:00 -
[1] - Quote
I like to fly dropships on an alt I have, but I'm tired of losing 200k isk every time I meet anyone with at least adv swarms. Can I push through or are dropships just not worth it? |
Foehammerr
Dead Man's Game
RUST415
137
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Posted - 2014.12.15 09:00:00 -
[2] - Quote
hn617 wrote:I like to fly dropships on an alt I have, but I'm tired of losing 200k isk every time I meet anyone with at least adv swarms. Can I push through or are dropships just not worth it?
Currently no, they aren't. AV has been buffed so hard that any real vehicle usage is a diminished return on investment. God help you if you tank armor, especially since all forms of armor tank have been nerf ed while shield tanking stayed the same or got better.
I suspect in the coming weeks it will get better. Rattati is bringing back vehicles and working on them since infantry is "mostly" balanced after this next pass. Hopefully by Christmas. Our gift from CCP.
Rangers Lead The Way!
Beta Vet since 2/5/2013
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CELESTA AUNGM
Kang Lo Directorate
Gallente Federation
371
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Posted - 2014.12.16 08:17:00 -
[3] - Quote
hn617 wrote:I like to fly dropships on an alt I have, but I'm tired of losing 200k isk every time I meet anyone with at least adv swarms. Can I push through or are dropships just not worth it?
Salutations, hn617. And if you're a GOOD dropship operator, then I can't agree with opinions that dropships are not worth flying, or a big dent in your wallet.
I've been operating DS as a transport since April 2013. Transport means essentially that, all through the match, you let the reds take any skilled or unskilled potshot at you they feel like taking----but you can't shoot them back unless you have a good, steadyhanded turret-gunner onboard.
When I started as a DS player, the "Darth Vader" enemy was the Forge Gun or Rail-HAV,... later it became the Swarmer A/V guy as the person to run from,... I wonder if Plasma Cannons will ever get that reputation too. But it doesn't matter.
Protecting a transport DS (and your replacement costs) has always been about Skilling enough to mount a workhorse fit-out of modules, and timing the modules activation when you get hit by someone's weapon, AND NAVIGATING THE MAP ALONG THE ROUTES AND APPROACH ANGLES THAT ENSURE YOU SELDOM GET HIT BY SOEMONE'S WEAPON UNTIL YOU'RE PREPARED TO GET HIT.
I've been turret-gunner for transport DS players like teebow baggins and ibinez, and their vehicle loss is so low, not because they run away well, but because they mostly don't loiter at positions where (or times when) they will most likely get shot at. They tend to get fired upon when they KNOWINGLY expect an area or travel path is hot, and they know exactly what module they'll use to deal with it until they are ready to exit.
I'm TRYING to get as good as their style of play, but still have a ways to go before I can think of bragging. I will lose one DS per every 6 chaotic skirmish matches.
Not being so easy to spot and shoot at, so you hardly ever have to use your afterburner or module nearly as much, is the GOOD dropship person. I think this fact will always separate them from the rest of the dropship enthusiasts. IF you can operate your DS with their technique, hn, no AVers can even mess with you.
Universe of good wishes for the 49, especially CCP Eterne...
No story can have life without writers and publishers.
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TEBOW BAGGINS
GREATNESS ACHIEVED THRU TROLLING
1417
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Posted - 2014.12.16 22:17:00 -
[4] - Quote
yea like celesta said, it comes down to predicting the AV, it can't be labeled raw intuition it is more a de ja vu that comes from analyzing why you went down. that analysis becomes quicker and quicker.so you then make the decision to call another if you think the crash was mostly pilot error that can be avoided, other times it's just a case of overwhelming AV that can only be countered by your teams infantry so calling another ship is a waste in that case.
some matches are absolutely hopeless and is usually tied to how well your team's infantry is doing.. if you see 2 blue tanks then that's a good sign that you'll have a good flight. i try to shadow blue tanks and work as a back up AV DPS in that case. if your red lined and see 2 enemy red tanks you will probably be shot down. although with enough experience you can sometimes judge a redlining to be worth it.
dom can be extremely punishing to fly in, if the red team sets up shop on the point. skirmish is easier because you can devote yourself to point defense of your closest point, instead of approaching the 1 single point they've set shop up on..
if your only taking one form of AV you sometimes decide it's worth it to risk to get your gunner the kill. fleeing at the fisrt sound of SL can become very dull, barely surviving and seeing your gunner get the kill beforing bugging out in the nick of time is much more rewarding, even more rewarding when he kills the swarmer your tanking.. MLT swarms are not a very big deal but a mincommando running proto is. it will down the tankiest of fits in 3 volleys. you can tell what kind of swarm it is by the amount of damage you see it doing.
like celesta said you develop a sense of where and when not to loiter. but if you want your gunner to get kills then you'll have to know when to risk a hover. sometimes you just get lucky. but i'm to the point where it's gut instinct, i can almost smell the AV hit coming a few seconds before i'm hit.
ADS right now is barely flyable and takes a ton of SP to pull off with any amount of consistency.. i've gone from running high rep to bricking up to 3800 armor from 3300.. from 187 rep down to 112. bricking has had better success in 1.9 for me, when before my reps would laugh most of everything off.. the idea is i get far enough away in time and 112 rep gets me back to full health very fast. i then decide to reapproach the last point or if it was a problem with swarms i assault a part of the map that's out of his range and i make him pursue me around the map, usually he is killed by blue infantry or if i can get him to waste a few volleys on me sometimes he gives up and goes for someone else.
ppl will swear by hardeners but my style of flying requires all my attention be on avoiding getting hit and repping in time not soaking up damage for X amount of seconds. to me that many actives is a distraction from the actual flying but to each his own. the main trick is to know how to get going again asap.. an unplanned stall in a dropship is usually the end of it.
also you have to be extremely aware of what's going on that map reguarding turret instals, enemy vehicles and if the enemy AV has no opposition from your ground forces or if there is no coordinated squads on your team it's a no go unless the enemy team is totally randoms.
dropship now requires armor or shield fitting optimization 5 more than ever if you really want to stand a chance because most of the time your hanging on by a thread of HP that wouldn't be there if you hadn't spent the SP to fit heavy armor or shield modules, and ADS can no longer feasibly forfeit cpu/pg for a door gunner.
your best bet is to fly in academy and can usually practice there without being totally overwhelmed by AV until you get a feel for it.. and learn to contour fly at very low altitude, they can't lock onto something they can't see. it's not so much an aircraft, it's a hover MAV that has the ability to fly.
dropship truly shines when it's used by more than just the pilot but finding those players willing to coordinate with one is like a holy grail. if your having problems with an AV you just hotdrop a heavy on them..
AKA Zirzo Valcyn
AFKing since 2012
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hn617
Algintal Core
Gallente Federation
6
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Posted - 2014.12.17 00:30:00 -
[5] - Quote
Thanks for the tips guys, I was pretty frustrated when I made the thread lol. I'm sure a lot of it is being unaware or not picking my spots well. Sticking with it for now. |
King Bolly
Eternal Beings
Dark Taboo
19
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Posted - 2014.12.17 15:06:00 -
[6] - Quote
i agree with everyone for the most part but everyone is forgetting 1 important factor as a ds pilot, random stupid bs has killed me way more than av in my ds career.
examples...
blue rdvs.
blue missle turrets.
red and blue rammers.
the tabletop map surrounded by anvils will blow up your ship upon deployment if you spawn ground base.
once my rdv hit the mcc (not a lie).
being flipped upsidedown by av (does not count as an av kill).
the list goes on.
one thing is for sure. being a full time pilot WILL make you a much more mature person with anger management, or you will quit.
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TEBOW BAGGINS
GREATNESS ACHIEVED THRU TROLLING
1419
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Posted - 2014.12.18 00:46:00 -
[7] - Quote
i fear the next patch... i got a feeling they're going to butcher my reps i'm comfortable with back into actives
AKA Zirzo Valcyn
AFKing since 2012
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lee corwood
Knights Of Ender
RISE of LEGION
1067
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Posted - 2015.01.01 07:02:00 -
[8] - Quote
I feel like DS won't be in a good place until they get rid of the bullshit hit detection. I'm skilled way into AV, but even I get angry for the pilots. I see way too many pilots no where near a building or MCC and suddenly they're spinning in the air at 0 health on fire because they supposedly 'hit' them. Also, these invisible RDVs have to go. Had a corpmate thrown halfway across the map (thankfully he lived...barely) because an invisible RDV shoved right through him. Didn't realize what happened until I saw it materialize under him.
Knights of Ender Director
Logi 4 Life | Youtube Vids
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Operative 1174 Uuali
Y.A.M.A.H
209
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Posted - 2015.01.01 18:43:00 -
[9] - Quote
I mainly crash and burn from pilot error from trick flying.
Keep moving in large and high to low and tight concentric circles to test the waters for AV. If you are clear then go back arond and attack.
Know what kind of battle it is. Some battles just aren't ADS viable battles.
Mainly target uplinks, hives and the reds that hang around them.
Learn evasive maneuvering with a DS first.
Learn to do strafeing runs.
P.S. Blasters may not hit for sh*t, but they sure make people move out of the area.
I'm better than laser focused; I'm hybrid focused.
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hn617
The Evil Geniuses
17
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Posted - 2015.01.03 15:54:00 -
[10] - Quote
Great tips guys, thanks. Any comments on shield vs armor, or hardeners vs boosters? I've read old threads and guides but can't be sure if it all applies still. Also incubus or python? I go back and forth. |
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CELESTA AUNGM
Kang Lo Directorate
Gallente Federation
387
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Posted - 2015.01.03 21:50:00 -
[11] - Quote
hn617 wrote:Great tips guys, thanks. Any comments on shield vs armor, or hardeners vs boosters? I've read old threads and guides but can't be sure if it all applies still. Also incubus or python? I go back and forth.
Oh my Lourde, NO, hn617! When it comes to the type of Modules and Fits, the old threads and guides DON'T apply anymore. The best guides and threads were posted back in 2012/2010, and were geared toward an enemy capable of inflicting 2280 hp of damage per shot. GǪThe modules and weapon stats have altered greatly since then.
But those old threads are STILL the best for their INTENT. A Gallente DS (an armour tanker) is STILL best protected by an expendable but thick cushion of Shield. In old threads, this was achieved with 2 Azetropic-Ward Light Shield ExtendersGǪ
The modern thread posted by Gabriella Grey suggests doing this with a Complex Heavy Shield Extender and a tag-along Light Shield Module (you can't stack same modules the way you used to in 2012),
But the INTENT is the same.
IF you've discovered the old treasured threads, read them for their wisdom and fitting-goals.
Study Gabriella's thread to learn which MODULES currently apply.
Universe of good wishes for the 49, especially CCP Eterne...
No story can have life without writers and publishers.
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TEBOW BAGGINS
GREATNESS ACHIEVED THRU TROLLING
1544
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Posted - 2015.01.11 22:27:00 -
[12] - Quote
hn617 wrote:Great tips guys, thanks. Any comments on shield vs armor, or hardeners vs boosters? I've read old threads and guides but can't be sure if it all applies still. Also incubus or python? I go back and forth.
python has more fits that dont require extremely high amounts of SP.. incubus is a passive beast after a lot of SP that becomes very resistant to collision damage/kamikazee .. neither is really better than the other but they are not the same.
AKA Zirzo Valcyn
AFKing since 2012
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