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Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
5410
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Posted - 2014.12.10 20:57:00 -
[1] - Quote
I just wanted to comment that I believe that enabling team deploy into FW needs to happen before PC will become possible/accessible for a larger portion of the community.
The work that's required out of game and in game both pre and post PC battle is simply too much for a group of players going from pubs to PC. The ISK investment for a group that's new to PC is astronomical when you consider the dozens of battles needed to even begin to understand what they need to do. With a learning curve so steep it usually just leads to the portion of talented players in those groups joining an established PC corp.
Basically I think the need for a lower risk team deploy that's accessable on a more frequent basis is required before PC will take off.
I wish my avatar was Minmatar.
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
15693
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Posted - 2014.12.10 21:05:00 -
[2] - Quote
And FW will not be able to take off until Teams can deploy to specific systems and regions otherwise team deploy with just represent an artificial bandaid fix that doesn't actually do anything for FW at all.
*"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.
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Kaeru Nayiri
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
293
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Posted - 2014.12.10 21:20:00 -
[3] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:And FW will not be able to take off until Teams can deploy to specific systems and regions otherwise team deploy with just represent an artificial bandaid fix that doesn't actually do anything for FW at all.
I would sincerely love to be able to pick a system to fight in. That would be so awesome. |
Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
5412
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Posted - 2014.12.11 00:29:00 -
[4] - Quote
Kaeru Nayiri wrote:True Adamance wrote:And FW will not be able to take off until Teams can deploy to specific systems and regions otherwise team deploy with just represent an artificial bandaid fix that doesn't actually do anything for FW at all. I would sincerely love to be able to pick a system to fight in. That would be so awesome.
Even better if Eve corps hired Dust corps to fight in vulnerable systems via contracts.
I wish my avatar was Minmatar.
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
15712
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Posted - 2014.12.11 00:34:00 -
[5] - Quote
Thor Odinson42 wrote:Kaeru Nayiri wrote:True Adamance wrote:And FW will not be able to take off until Teams can deploy to specific systems and regions otherwise team deploy with just represent an artificial bandaid fix that doesn't actually do anything for FW at all. I would sincerely love to be able to pick a system to fight in. That would be so awesome. Even better if Eve corps hired Dust corps to fight in vulnerable systems via contracts.
But I don't think they would tbh..... PIE guys keep saying they'd spend LP if it meant that they could get us (PCLAS) to fight in specific systems....but I don't know if the Militia would keep with an initiative like that because if they want a system they want organised players fighting for it, not every tom **** and harry the Imperial Guard found on the side of the road.
Most AFW pilots are just frustrated with the Dust modifiers since they are unreliable a hell.
Personally and I dont know about you...but I'd like the agency to be able to choose for myself where to fight and not rely on EVE pilot, but instead to work with them towards a goal. OB's right now feel like charity on their part.
*"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.
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Dust User
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
1222
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Posted - 2014.12.11 00:49:00 -
[6] - Quote
Team deploy is useless unless it matches you against other teams doing the same thing.
Redlining a bunch of randoms teaches you nothing about PC. |
True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
15714
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Posted - 2014.12.11 00:51:00 -
[7] - Quote
Dust User wrote:Team deploy is useless unless it matches you against other teams doing the same thing.
Redlining a bunch of randoms teaches you nothing about PC.
Indeed but what I could allow teams to do is specifically select important places to fight over. If anyone not in a team enters those zones (after being given warnings) then they have no reason to complain as they literally had over 60 other systems they could fight in.
*"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.
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Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
5412
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Posted - 2014.12.11 00:52:00 -
[8] - Quote
Dust User wrote:Team deploy is useless unless it matches you against other teams doing the same thing.
Redlining a bunch of randoms teaches you nothing about PC.
I'd assume there would be many people team deploying.
I wish my avatar was Minmatar.
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Dubya Guy
Abandoned Privilege Top Men.
84
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Posted - 2014.12.11 16:09:00 -
[9] - Quote
Dust User wrote: Redlining a bunch of randoms teaches you nothing about PC.
This is why I would love to see a new pub mode as referenced here:
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2511106#post2511106
Dubya Guy wrote: I would also like to see a pub game mode (not PC) that is only available to Platoons (or 16 clone squads ala above). I think it would be an ideal practice ground for PCs and would encourage more Corp/Alliance rivalry and competition. There would be more direct team v team competition. ** Players that prefer coordinated matches would get most of the same benefit they receive from q-syncing, except in a more predictable and easily coordinated fashion. Q-sync "Stomping" (q-sync squads vs randoms) would be reduced IMO because this new mode would provide an outlet for those wanting platoon-size coordination. Soloists could still have fun saving the day for all those stupid, incompetent random blueberries they are always complaining about being burdened with. They could just stick to the existing pub modes. Perhaps restrict the existing pub modes to the current max 6 squad size and no "platoons". ** Edit: Or the inverse: Platoons would only be able to use this new mode. If it would be easier than scaling Squad Leader bonuses, they could be turned off altogether in this mode.
FPS = First Person Support. Kills win battles but it's kinda hard to kill if you're dead and out of ammo.
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Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
5417
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Posted - 2014.12.11 16:20:00 -
[10] - Quote
The problem with the platoon pub game mode is that there is absolutely nothing to fight for. I don't think you'd have very much interest in it.
But if you made the LP payouts for a higher tier FW similar to the recent event then you'd have something worth fighting for.
I wish my avatar was Minmatar.
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Dubya Guy
Abandoned Privilege Top Men.
84
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Posted - 2014.12.11 16:42:00 -
[11] - Quote
Thor Odinson42 wrote:But if you made the LP payouts for a higher tier FW similar to the recent event then you'd have something worth fighting for.
Or higher ISK, SP, or salvage rate rewards compared to other Pub modes? Not as much as PC, but a small relative bump. You may also be underestimating the value of the bragging rights from corp v corp Platoon battles, and the value in being able to "practice" for PCs when you don't have a district already.
FPS = First Person Support. Kills win battles but it's kinda hard to kill if you're dead and out of ammo.
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da GAND
Seykal Expeditionary Group Minmatar Republic
1039
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Posted - 2014.12.11 16:43:00 -
[12] - Quote
Yes seems like a good place to start with getting team deployment in the game.
Should Legion be on the ps4?
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Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
5422
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Posted - 2014.12.11 16:50:00 -
[13] - Quote
Dubya Guy wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:But if you made the LP payouts for a higher tier FW similar to the recent event then you'd have something worth fighting for. Or higher ISK, SP, or salvage rate rewards compared to other Pub modes? Not as much as PC, but a small relative bump. You may also be underestimating the value of the bragging rights from corp v corp Platoon battles, and the value in being able to "practice" for PCs when you don't have a district already.
I think FW team deploy development is something that can pay for itself. Rattati made a comment on the podcast that he didn't believe that providing all the suits/weapons in the LP store wouldn't even make people turn to FW and even compared the number of players committed to FW to that of the number for PC.
FW doesn't have more players because of long queue times and something which is a common theme in Dust, low payouts. They gave a 50% increase to LP and queue times were much better. Not as good as they would have been if people could get their Caldari and Amarr scouts from the LP store though.
I wish my avatar was Minmatar.
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides Learning Alliance
5390
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Posted - 2014.12.11 16:52:00 -
[14] - Quote
Give Platoon leaders two ways to sign up for FW battles.
1)Through the FW Battle Finder were the location is picked by the AI. 2)Through the Star Map on the FW tab where the Platoon leader selects the location they will attack.
This way, only Platoon leaders that know what they are doing and understand how the system works are likely to pick the location of their battle, while most FW players will let the system pick for them. It adds a level of complexity and control, without making it any harder for the new guys.
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
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Kain Spero
Goonfeet
3951
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Posted - 2014.12.11 17:43:00 -
[15] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:And FW will not be able to take off until Teams can deploy to specific systems and regions otherwise team deploy with just represent an artificial bandaid fix that doesn't actually do anything for FW at all.
I have to agree here. If not having teams deploy to a location at least having a way to focus the FW fight through some mechanic to a specific system either from Eve or Dust.
Owner of Spero Escrow Services
Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
3947
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Posted - 2014.12.11 17:46:00 -
[16] - Quote
Leaders can Form a Platoon of up to 16 players. Platoon Leaders can select a specific system to attack. EVE Players can place requests for specific systems to be attacked. Battle will not launch unless a platoon of a certain size accepts the defend contract. Size of Defending Platoon must be at least X% (75%?) the size of Attacking Platoon. All Remaining slots will be filled with randoms on both sides, preferential selection to squads.
Teams of 16 are guaranteed to fight at a minimum a Platoon of 12 + (Likely) a squad of 4 Avoids a hard limit of matching team sizes (Refusing to allow 16 vs 15 + 1 random is stupid) Percentage Required Can be modified if needed. Attacking Teams of less than 16 may potentially fight larger defending platoons.
"That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032
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KenKaniff69
Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance
2549
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Posted - 2014.12.11 22:07:00 -
[17] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:And FW will not be able to take off until Teams can deploy to specific systems and regions otherwise team deploy with just represent an artificial bandaid fix that doesn't actually do anything for FW at all. THIS!
Winmatar?
4 systems left
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Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
5435
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Posted - 2014.12.11 22:33:00 -
[18] - Quote
One aspect to think about here from the PC players posting here is that you've been inclined to pursue Dust's greatest attribute already.
I want to see more people in PC and playing tactically. I can't think of a better way to get it going. Kane has some pretty good ideas about FW as well as SMB and Cross' proposal. Those things can be added or built on. I'm just simply pointing out that not only is FW barely scratching the surface of it's potential, but team deploy in FW provides the missing ingredient that's led to a PC sector of the playerbase that is far too small.
I wish my avatar was Minmatar.
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MINA Longstrike
Kirjuun Heiian
1754
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Posted - 2014.12.12 00:25:00 -
[19] - Quote
Quote:Going forward I'd like to see faction warfare become an entirely 'unique' style of match for those really invested in it, allowing much like eve to fight over and potentially control the warzone. This idea is based off of a few parallels within eve.
1) Create 'priority' hubs (accessible on the star map) that allow players to pay LP into them to build up a target priority rating which once over a certain value causes matches generated to gravitate towards said system or region until the 'rating' is depleted (via successful defenses). 2) Allow players to access a priority queue, either by evaluating their investments into priority hubs or by allowing them to spend LP to get into a priority queue. A 'priority' squad leader drags their whole squad into the priority queue. Anyone not in a 'priority queue' gets the current 'anyone goes anywhere' type deployments. the main intent of points one and two is to allow players more agency over where they fight, should they actually want to exercise said agency
3) Cause successful attacks / defenses of districts to 'lock' the district for a short amount of time, eg. 30-45minutes. 4) If all districts on a planet are captured cause the planet to 'lock' for a moderate amount of time eg.8-24h (if a planet 'unlocks' a certain minimum threshold of districts must be re-secured in order to re-lock the planet). At this point anyone who paid into a priority hub and participated in a certain value of 'active' priority matches would get some form of (small) payout 5) If all planets in a system are 'locked' the whole system locks for a moderate amount of time eg. 3days. (a single relocked planet wouldn't relock the system). At this point a payout is awarded to those who paid into a priority hub and participated in a certain number of 'active' priority matches.
Overall I feel like this would serve to make FW a more 'engaging' game mode and make players really excited to fight for their respective faction. I understand that this is highly unlikely to ever be possible with dusts current design or team, but I feel like sharing the idea anyway.
Repostan again.
Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian.
I have a few alts.
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
15759
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Posted - 2014.12.12 00:29:00 -
[20] - Quote
MINA Longstrike wrote:Quote:Going forward I'd like to see faction warfare become an entirely 'unique' style of match for those really invested in it, allowing much like eve to fight over and potentially control the warzone. This idea is based off of a few parallels within eve.
1) Create 'priority' hubs (accessible on the star map) that allow players to pay LP into them to build up a target priority rating which once over a certain value causes matches generated to gravitate towards said system or region until the 'rating' is depleted (via successful defenses). 2) Allow players to access a priority queue, either by evaluating their investments into priority hubs or by allowing them to spend LP to get into a priority queue. A 'priority' squad leader drags their whole squad into the priority queue. Anyone not in a 'priority queue' gets the current 'anyone goes anywhere' type deployments. the main intent of points one and two is to allow players more agency over where they fight, should they actually want to exercise said agency
3) Cause successful attacks / defenses of districts to 'lock' the district for a short amount of time, eg. 30-45minutes. 4) If all districts on a planet are captured cause the planet to 'lock' for a moderate amount of time eg.8-24h (if a planet 'unlocks' a certain minimum threshold of districts must be re-secured in order to re-lock the planet). At this point anyone who paid into a priority hub and participated in a certain value of 'active' priority matches would get some form of (small) payout 5) If all planets in a system are 'locked' the whole system locks for a moderate amount of time eg. 3days. (a single relocked planet wouldn't relock the system). At this point a payout is awarded to those who paid into a priority hub and participated in a certain number of 'active' priority matches.
Overall I feel like this would serve to make FW a more 'engaging' game mode and make players really excited to fight for their respective faction. I understand that this is highly unlikely to ever be possible with dusts current design or team, but I feel like sharing the idea anyway. Repostan again.
I'm sure EVE pilots would love this.
A reliable bonus in a system for a change, player generated fronts, and system specific campaigns....... that sounds wonderful.
*"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.
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Flint Beastgood III
Carbon 7 Iron Oxide.
1050
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Posted - 2014.12.13 16:37:00 -
[21] - Quote
Fox Gaden wrote:Give Platoon leaders two ways to sign up for FW battles.
1)Through the FW Battle Finder were the location is picked by the AI. 2)Through the Star Map on the FW tab where the Platoon leader selects the location they will attack.
This way, only Platoon leaders that know what they are doing and understand how the system works are likely to pick the location of their battle, while most FW players will let the system pick for them. It adds a level of complexity and control, without making it any harder for the new guys.
You could even use the warbarge as a lobby, so you select where you want to fight and sit in the warbarge waiting for an enemy team deployment to show up. When choosing where to fight, the map could highlight districts that have defenders/attackers (and how many) waiting to fight.
Yep
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
15842
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Posted - 2014.12.13 22:03:00 -
[22] - Quote
I'd also like to see timers on these deployments so that if another team does not deploy against you after a set amount of time the district you selected automatically flips to you. So that you are not prevented from Queing and achieving results in the same manner it is in EVE.
*"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.
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Maken Tosch
DUST University Ivy League
10460
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Posted - 2014.12.13 23:31:00 -
[23] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:And FW will not be able to take off until Teams can deploy to specific systems and regions otherwise team deploy with just represent an artificial bandaid fix that doesn't actually do anything for FW at all.
This. So much this.
On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
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Maken Tosch
DUST University Ivy League
10460
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Posted - 2014.12.13 23:35:00 -
[24] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:MINA Longstrike wrote:Quote:Going forward I'd like to see faction warfare become an entirely 'unique' style of match for those really invested in it, allowing much like eve to fight over and potentially control the warzone. This idea is based off of a few parallels within eve.
1) Create 'priority' hubs (accessible on the star map) that allow players to pay LP into them to build up a target priority rating which once over a certain value causes matches generated to gravitate towards said system or region until the 'rating' is depleted (via successful defenses). 2) Allow players to access a priority queue, either by evaluating their investments into priority hubs or by allowing them to spend LP to get into a priority queue. A 'priority' squad leader drags their whole squad into the priority queue. Anyone not in a 'priority queue' gets the current 'anyone goes anywhere' type deployments. the main intent of points one and two is to allow players more agency over where they fight, should they actually want to exercise said agency
3) Cause successful attacks / defenses of districts to 'lock' the district for a short amount of time, eg. 30-45minutes. 4) If all districts on a planet are captured cause the planet to 'lock' for a moderate amount of time eg.8-24h (if a planet 'unlocks' a certain minimum threshold of districts must be re-secured in order to re-lock the planet). At this point anyone who paid into a priority hub and participated in a certain value of 'active' priority matches would get some form of (small) payout 5) If all planets in a system are 'locked' the whole system locks for a moderate amount of time eg. 3days. (a single relocked planet wouldn't relock the system). At this point a payout is awarded to those who paid into a priority hub and participated in a certain number of 'active' priority matches.
Overall I feel like this would serve to make FW a more 'engaging' game mode and make players really excited to fight for their respective faction. I understand that this is highly unlikely to ever be possible with dusts current design or team, but I feel like sharing the idea anyway. Repostan again. I'm sure EVE pilots would love this. A reliable bonus in a system for a change, player generated fronts, and system specific campaigns....... that sounds wonderful.
I agree. At the very least, Eve Online players would at least have an idea on where to rally to provide critical support.
On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
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Dubya Guy
Abandoned Privilege Top Men.
127
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Posted - 2014.12.18 21:12:00 -
[25] - Quote
The following idea thread offers a comprehensive look at "platoon" battle modes that would provide a practice environment for PCs. Please consider.
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=184780&find=unread
FPS = First Person Support. Kills win battles but it's kinda hard to kill if you're dead and out of ammo.
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Lady MDK
Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire
212
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Posted - 2014.12.18 21:33:00 -
[26] - Quote
@Rattati and CPM
I urge you that improvements to PC and FW should also involve things EVE side to strengthen any link between the games. Please do whatever you can to get CCP Seagull on side. Team deploy sounds great but the mechanics need to change both sides to strengthen the ties between the 2 communities.
Anyone getting annoyed by reading of the above post should consider the following.
I don't care so neither should you :)
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
16119
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Posted - 2014.12.18 21:50:00 -
[27] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:True Adamance wrote:MINA Longstrike wrote:Quote:Going forward I'd like to see faction warfare become an entirely 'unique' style of match for those really invested in it, allowing much like eve to fight over and potentially control the warzone. This idea is based off of a few parallels within eve.
1) Create 'priority' hubs (accessible on the star map) that allow players to pay LP into them to build up a target priority rating which once over a certain value causes matches generated to gravitate towards said system or region until the 'rating' is depleted (via successful defenses). 2) Allow players to access a priority queue, either by evaluating their investments into priority hubs or by allowing them to spend LP to get into a priority queue. A 'priority' squad leader drags their whole squad into the priority queue. Anyone not in a 'priority queue' gets the current 'anyone goes anywhere' type deployments. the main intent of points one and two is to allow players more agency over where they fight, should they actually want to exercise said agency
3) Cause successful attacks / defenses of districts to 'lock' the district for a short amount of time, eg. 30-45minutes. 4) If all districts on a planet are captured cause the planet to 'lock' for a moderate amount of time eg.8-24h (if a planet 'unlocks' a certain minimum threshold of districts must be re-secured in order to re-lock the planet). At this point anyone who paid into a priority hub and participated in a certain value of 'active' priority matches would get some form of (small) payout 5) If all planets in a system are 'locked' the whole system locks for a moderate amount of time eg. 3days. (a single relocked planet wouldn't relock the system). At this point a payout is awarded to those who paid into a priority hub and participated in a certain number of 'active' priority matches.
Overall I feel like this would serve to make FW a more 'engaging' game mode and make players really excited to fight for their respective faction. I understand that this is highly unlikely to ever be possible with dusts current design or team, but I feel like sharing the idea anyway. Repostan again. I'm sure EVE pilots would love this. A reliable bonus in a system for a change, player generated fronts, and system specific campaigns....... that sounds wonderful. I agree. At the very least, Eve Online players would at least have an idea on where to rally to provide critical support.
More the other way around. At least we'd be worth their time.
*"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.
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