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BL4CKST4R La Muerte Eterna Dark Taboo 3421	Posted - 2014.12.07 14:59:00 - [1] - Quote Duvolle: Damage:- 33.99 ROF:- 800 DPS:- 453.2 Optimal range:- 40M Effective range (30% dps):- 70M Clip/ammo:- 60/300 Damage per clip:- 2039.4 Creodon: Damage:- 63.935 ROF:- 428.57 DPS:- 456.67 Optimal range:- 40M Effective range (30% dps):- 70M Clip/ammo:- 36/300 Damage per clip:- 2301 As you can see from these stats the only numbers that are different from the basic AR is the damage per clip which is 300 hp over, the only logical nerf to the breach would be a clip reduction. I will explain why any other nerf is unecesary and would break the weapon, the two most suggested nerfs being dps and range. Before we go on, would you nerf the dps or the range on the Duvolle? Why not? Because the weapon is unused and kinda bad unless in the hands of a skilled player. So then why the Creodon? Here is a thought experiment let's say we fiddled with the stats of the Creodon (damage and rof) holding dps constant, and we increased rof to 800. Well damage would actually be equal to the ARs, which I just previously stated is not in need of a nerf. By this the breach is not in need of a dps nerf, because dps is equal to that of a weapon who operates exactly the same, and that weapon is nowhere near OP. That leaves us with range, 40M optimal and 70M effective, well that's a 30M difference and at it's peak dps drops down to a whopping 30%, that means ever meters we have a 2.3% dps reduction, so at the next range where a weapon operates being the CR at 50M, the AR has lost 23% dps, so there is no way the AR nor the Breach can outdps or outperform any weapon outside of 40M, so the problem is definitely not range. So what is the problem? clip? 300 extra damage is not going to make the weapon seem so OP, so what is it? Well the problem is actually rof and damage but not the combination of both, meaning it is no dps. The problem is the weapons low rof and high damage makes it accurate and deadly, but that's only because it is just easy to use, and it forgives missing a lot. The way the game works, most weapons actually miss a lot, weapons with low rof like the post-nerf Tac, the rail and now the breach excel in this environment, because they do not miss. The only way to fix the weapon is to actually increase rof, and reduce damage keeping dps constant, as I have stated above dps is not the problem nor is it range, and blindly nerfing the weapon would just break it, specially when the nerds suggested ARE NOT the problem. Edit: forgot to mention it also needs a tiny bit more kick, the AR had kick which is noticeable at the end of it's clip due to it's high rof and such, the breach won't ever kick due to low rof and low clip. supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 2440	Posted - 2014.12.07 15:03:00 - [2] - Quote you forgot to mention giving the damn thing ANY kick would be a sufficiant nerf. damn things steady as a rock. Minmatar is Winmatar Creed of the Minja - "I'm a leaf on the wind" I am Chances Ghost
BL4CKST4R La Muerte Eterna Dark Taboo 3421	Posted - 2014.12.07 15:07:00 - [3] - Quote Ghosts Chance wrote: you forgot to mention giving the damn thing ANY kick would be a sufficiant nerf. damn things steady as a rock. Accuracy and kick are the same on the AR and breach although I do agree that the breach need a a tiny more kick because it's low rof actually negates the kick already built in. For example the AR has kick but it's at the end of the clip, the breach is to slow and has a smaller clip So it will never kick. supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
shaman oga T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K 3376	Posted - 2014.12.07 15:09:00 - [4] - Quote Stats of bolt pistol were in line, math is not the only factor to take in account when you balance a weapon. Breach AR ROF is almost perfect to land hits on strafing targets (despite less ROF it seem to hit more frequently), it's full auto, have a decent amount of bullet per clip but most of all it's super effective in hip fire. I don't want to say that BAR is extremely OP, but certainly is rather easy to use for the damage it can deal, generally if a weapon performance can be very good, it's not super easy to use (eg SCR pistol headshot bonus). Situational awareness also known as passive scan.
BL4CKST4R La Muerte Eterna Dark Taboo 3421	Posted - 2014.12.07 15:15:00 - [5] - Quote shaman oga wrote: Stats of bolt pistol were in line, math is not the only factor to take in account when you balance a weapon. Breach AR ROF is almost perfect to land hits on strafing targets (despite less ROF it seem to hit more frequently), it's full auto, have a decent amount of bullet per clip but most of all it's super effective in hip fire. I don't want to say that BAR is extremely OP, but certainly is rather easy to use for the damage it can deal, generally if a weapon performance can be very good, it's not super easy to use (eg SCR pistol headshot bonus). The weapon is easy to use because the majority of combat in dust lies on who can miss the most, the breach being an extremely accurate weapon on moving targets allows it to be good in this meta. Imo if the strafing nerf lands the AR will become a lot better, along with other high rof weapons. supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
hfderrtgvcd 1453	Posted - 2014.12.07 15:42:00 - [6] - Quote The breach has the best hip fire and recoil of any rifle. Combine this with excellent dps and damage per clip and you get an overpowered weapon. There is no reason to use another rifle unless you are camping on a roof. You can't fight in here! This is the war room.
Valor Goat 33	Posted - 2014.12.07 16:34:00 - [7] - Quote The AR has some recoil, the BAR doesn't. The BAR has slightly more range, and due to its high damage bullet and zero kick it does well even 10-20m outside of optimal range. What makes the BAR OP is the fact that it clearly has an aimbot on it (I.E. best hip fire - no recoil - no kick). 1EE7
Valor Goat 33	Posted - 2014.12.07 16:35:00 - [8] - Quote shaman oga wrote: Stats of bolt pistol were in line, math is not the only factor to take in account when you balance a weapon. Breach AR ROF is almost perfect to land hits on strafing targets (despite less ROF it seem to hit more frequently), it's full auto, have a decent amount of bullet per clip but most of all it's super effective in hip fire. I don't want to say that BAR is extremely OP, but certainly is rather easy to use for the damage it can deal, generally if a weapon performance can be very good, it's not super easy to use (eg SCR pistol headshot bonus). Agreed, good point 1EE7
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 1033	Posted - 2014.12.07 16:48:00 - [9] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: I will explain why any other nerf is unecesary and would break the weapon ... How would rolling back a little on overcorrected stats break the weapon?
Ryme Intrinseca Dead Man's Game RUST415 2188	Posted - 2014.12.07 16:58:00 - [10] - Quote In general the AR handles horribly. With the breach, CR, ACR, ScR, etc you can just hipfire in the general direction and the gun does the rest. Not so with the AR. That's what the stats don't capture.

One Eyed King Land of the BIind 6408	Posted - 2014.12.07 17:02:00 - [11] - Quote Ryme Intrinseca wrote: In general the AR handles horribly. With the breach, CR, ACR, ScR, etc you can just hipfire in the general direction and the gun does the rest. Not so with the AR. That's what the stats don't capture. I think hipfire in general needs greater dispersion. I use CR sometimes, and it is just too tight for something that is supposed to be a medium and longer range weapon. Thunderbolt. verb and noun. "James thunderbolted in his pants." "I lit a bag of thunderbolt on fire on CCP's doorway"
Greiv Rabbah 13Art of War13 36	Posted - 2014.12.07 17:06:00 - [12] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: Duvolle: Damage:- 33.99 ROF:- 800 DPS:- 453.2 Optimal range:- 40M Effective range (30% dps):- 70M Clip/ammo:- 60/300 Damage per clip:- 2039.4 Creodon: Damage:- 63.935 ROF:- 428.57 DPS:- 456.67 Optimal range:- 40M Effective range (30% dps):- 70M Clip/ammo:- 36/300 Damage per clip:- 2301 As you can see from these stats the only numbers that are different from the basic AR is the damage per clip which is 300 hp over, the only logical nerf to the breach would be a clip reduction. I will explain why any other nerf is unecesary and would break the weapon, the two most suggested nerfs being dps and range. Before we go on, would you nerf the dps or the range on the Duvolle? Why not? Because the weapon is unused and kinda bad unless in the hands of a skilled player. So then why the Creodon? Here is a thought experiment let's say we fiddled with the stats of the Creodon (damage and rof) holding dps constant, and we increased rof to 800. Well damage would actually be equal to the ARs, which I just previously stated is not in need of a nerf. By this the breach is not in need of a dps nerf, because dps is equal to that of a weapon who operates exactly the same, and that weapon is nowhere near OP. That leaves us with range, 40M optimal and 70M effective, well that's a 30M difference and at it's peak dps drops down to a whopping 30%, that means ever meters we have a 2.3% dps reduction, so at the next range where a weapon operates being the CR at 50M, the AR has lost 23% dps, so there is no way the AR nor the Breach can outdps or outperform any weapon outside of 40M, so the problem is definitely not range. So what is the problem? clip? 300 extra damage is not going to make the weapon seem so OP, so what is it? Well the problem is actually rof and damage but not the combination of both, meaning it is no dps. The problem is the weapons low rof and high damage makes it accurate and deadly, but that's only because it is just easy to use, and it forgives missing a lot. The way the game works, most weapons actually miss a lot, weapons with low rof like the post-nerf Tac, the rail and now the breach excel in this environment, because they do not miss. The only way to fix the weapon is to actually increase rof, and reduce damage keeping dps constant, as I have stated above dps is not the problem nor is it range, and blindly nerfing the weapon would just break it, specially when the nerds suggested ARE NOT the problem. Edit: forgot to mention it also needs a tiny bit more kick, the AR had kick which is noticeable at the end of it's clip due to it's high rof and such, the breach won't ever kick due to low rof and low clip. Hi there. I really really like this almost entirely. Your logic was great, your argument against the breach atbeing overpowered was well formulated, but i disagree with your conclusion. 300 extra damage per clip I think is a perfectly reasonable ramp up from basic to breach, and I don't think increasing ROF or decreasing damage per shot is the way to go here bc that's taking away the "breach" from the breach assault rifle. I would argue instead that the accuracy needs tweaking. The gun needs kick. Not just a little, we're talking about a gun that punches harder and slings fireballs farther than the duvolle so it should recoil more than the duvolle, make sense? Of course operation and gal assault bring these down and it should be a reasonably accurate weapon in the hands of an assault gk0, but even then the kick should be noticeable. That would balance the weapon i think. Your dps calculations are high for these rifles bc they dont account for missed shots, which sets the breach rifles "real" dps much higher while your "potential" dps doesnt show a problem statistically. Would you disagree with that?
SILENT GIANT FATHERS-AND-SONS 202	Posted - 2014.12.07 17:36:00 - [13] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: Ryme Intrinseca wrote: In general the AR handles horribly. With the breach, CR, ACR, ScR, etc you can just hipfire in the general direction and the gun does the rest. Not so with the AR. That's what the stats don't capture. I think hipfire in general needs greater dispersion. I use CR sometimes, and it is just too tight for something that is supposed to be a medium and longer range weapon. I agree with both of you, When using AR you really have to aim, and up close hipfire is erratic with as much dispersion as it has. As it should be though, your hip firing a rifle, what do you expect. But with CR its like why ads, the reticle auto locks so well I can hipfire a 30m shot effortlessly. Prob cut down on a lot of the funky strafe dancing in this game if someone had to actually concentrate and take a min to aim like theyre supposed to. Its like, get close enough and from then on its more of a, out dps/ehp the next person, with a little skill involved ,but mainly relying on suit vs suit. Guess that more rpg game style, but i guess this game is supposed to be sorta one. Not complaining, I love this game to death, but if they could iron out the gunplay and fluid movements this game would dominate and fps with no arguement.
BL4CKST4R Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 3423	Posted - 2014.12.07 20:41:00 - [14] - Quote Greiv Rabbah wrote: BL4CKST4R wrote: Duvolle: Damage:- 33.99 ROF:- 800 DPS:- 453.2 Optimal range:- 40M Effective range (30% dps):- 70M Clip/ammo:- 60/300 Damage per clip:- 2039.4 Creodon: Damage:- 63.935 ROF:- 428.57 DPS:- 456.67 Optimal range:- 40M Effective range (30% dps):- 70M Clip/ammo:- 36/300 Damage per clip:- 2301 As you can see from these stats the only numbers that are different from the basic AR is the damage per clip which is 300 hp over, the only logical nerf to the breach would be a clip reduction. I will explain why any other nerf is unecesary and would break the weapon, the two most suggested nerfs being dps and range. Before we go on, would you nerf the dps or the range on the Duvolle? Why not? Because the weapon is unused and kinda bad unless in the hands of a skilled player. So then why the Creodon? Here is a thought experiment let's say we fiddled with the stats of the Creodon (damage and rof) holding dps constant, and we increased rof to 800. Well damage would actually be equal to the ARs, which I just previously stated is not in need of a nerf. By this the breach is not in need of a dps nerf, because dps is equal to that of a weapon who operates exactly the same, and that weapon is nowhere near OP. That leaves us with range, 40M optimal and 70M effective, well that's a 30M difference and at it's peak dps drops down to a whopping 30%, that means ever meters we have a 2.3% dps reduction, so at the next range where a weapon operates being the CR at 50M, the AR has lost 23% dps, so there is no way the AR nor the Breach can outdps or outperform any weapon outside of 40M, so the problem is definitely not range. So what is the problem? clip? 300 extra damage is not going to make the weapon seem so OP, so what is it? Well the problem is actually rof and damage but not the combination of both, meaning it is no dps. The problem is the weapons low rof and high damage makes it accurate and deadly, but that's only because it is just easy to use, and it forgives missing a lot. The way the game works, most weapons actually miss a lot, weapons with low rof like the post-nerf Tac, the rail and now the breach excel in this environment, because they do not miss. The only way to fix the weapon is to actually increase rof, and reduce damage keeping dps constant, as I have stated above dps is not the problem nor is it range, and blindly nerfing the weapon would just break it, specially when the nerds suggested ARE NOT the problem. Edit: forgot to mention it also needs a tiny bit more kick, the AR had kick which is noticeable at the end of it's clip due to it's high rof and such, the breach won't ever kick due to low rof and low clip. Hi there. I really really like this almost entirely. Your logic was great, your argument against the breach atbeing overpowered was well formulated, but i disagree with your conclusion. 300 extra damage per clip I think is a perfectly reasonable ramp up from basic to breach, and I don't think increasing ROF or decreasing damage per shot is the way to go here bc that's taking away the "breach" from the breach assault rifle. I would argue instead that the accuracy needs tweaking. The gun needs kick. Not just a little, we're talking about a gun that punches harder and slings fireballs farther than the duvolle so it should recoil more than the duvolle, make sense? Of course operation and gal assault bring these down and it should be a reasonably accurate weapon in the hands of an assault gk0, but even then the kick should be noticeable. That would balance the weapon i think. Your dps calculations are high for these rifles bc they dont account for missed shots, which sets the breach rifles "real" dps much higher while your "potential" dps doesnt show a problem statistically. Would you disagree with that? I do agree with you, on my initial draft for this I added that the breach needs more kick but I forgot to add it but yes it needs more kick. The reason I say it needs more rof, is not to make it AR 2.0 but to make it slightly less accurate, a rof increase would be a maximum of 600. The intent is to show that the breach does not need a straight nerf to dps nor range. One thing I mentioned in a post within this thread is that once starting nerf drops the AR along with other high rof weapons will gain more kills as the need for accuracy while moving or on moving targets will decrease. Although to be fair, kick and accuracy is a factor that the majority of weapons aside from caldari rail weapons, can ignore. In a perfect environment all weapons would have a degree of kick and inacuracy that sadly is missing. As got damage per clip, stats wise that is the only variable that deviates by a high amount, although there are other weapons with a much higher damage per clip than 2.3k. supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
Jack 3enimble Titans of Phoenix 527	Posted - 2014.12.07 21:19:00 - [15] - Quote Bro, stop defending the BAR. It's OP
sir RAVEN WING Horizons' Edge Proficiency V. 1512	Posted - 2014.12.07 21:27:00 - [16] - Quote What I hear "Please don't nerf my gun!" I'd be fine with a BrAR being removed or Breach versions of the other guns being added. Also if they buffed CRs or RRs (Or in RR's case, nerf the charge just a bit more.) I'd also be fine with it, but my ADV Gal sent should be able to kill and assault with a boundless faster than he can with a basic BrAR, even more so when he's playing in a militia suit. *Why should I be loyal? To be the obedient dog controlled by the four races? No, I come first now and state second*
BL4CKST4R Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 3423	Posted - 2014.12.07 21:30:00 - [17] - Quote sir RAVEN WING wrote: What I hear "Please don't nerf my gun!" I'd be fine with a BrAR being removed or Breach versions of the other guns being added. Also if they buffed CRs or RRs (Or in RR's case, nerf the charge just a bit more.) I'd also be fine with it, but my ADV Gal sent should be able to kill and assault with a boundless faster than he can with a basic BrAR, even more so when he's playing in a militia suit. Actually I don't use the breach, I use the assault rail rifle mainly. But being a gallente loyalist I would hate to see the only effective gallente weapon be unreasonably nerfed. supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
sir RAVEN WING Horizons' Edge Proficiency V. 1512	Posted - 2014.12.07 21:37:00 - [18] - Quote Jokes aside, I think this is a good idea. *Why should I be loyal? To be the obedient dog controlled by the four races? No, I come first now and state second*
sir RAVEN WING Horizons' Edge Proficiency V. 1512	Posted - 2014.12.07 21:46:00 - [19] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: sir RAVEN WING wrote: What I hear "Please don't nerf my gun!" I'd be fine with a BrAR being removed or Breach versions of the other guns being added. Also if they buffed CRs or RRs (Or in RR's case, nerf the charge just a bit more.) I'd also be fine with it, but my ADV Gal sent should be able to kill and assault with a boundless faster than he can with a basic BrAR, even more so when he's playing in a militia suit. Actually I don't use the breach, I use the assault rail rifle mainly. But being a gallente loyalist I would hate to see the only effective gallente weapon be unreasonably nerfed. Points out the RR This Caldari loyalist (former) wanted the same for the Caldari... sadly no one cared. *Why should I be loyal? To be the obedient dog controlled by the four races? No, I come first now and state second*
BL4CKST4R Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 3423	Posted - 2014.12.07 21:54:00 - [20] - Quote sir RAVEN WING wrote: BL4CKST4R wrote: sir RAVEN WING wrote: What I hear "Please don't nerf my gun!" I'd be fine with a BrAR being removed or Breach versions of the other guns being added. Also if they buffed CRs or RRs (Or in RR's case, nerf the charge just a bit more.) I'd also be fine with it, but my ADV Gal sent should be able to kill and assault with a boundless faster than he can with a basic BrAR, even more so when he's playing in a militia suit. Actually I don't use the breach, I use the assault rail rifle mainly. But being a gallente loyalist I would hate to see the only effective gallente weapon be unreasonably nerfed. Points out the RR This Caldari loyalist (former) wanted the same for the Caldari... sadly no one cared. I like how the rail rifle is now, its not easy mode anymore but equally the increased DPS and my ability to control it makes it a very rewarding weapon for switching combat styles quickly. I do wish all guns had increased kick and such, scaling with increasing range. supercalifragilisticexpialidocious

Jack 3enimble Titans of Phoenix 527	Posted - 2014.12.07 21:55:00 - [21] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: sir RAVEN WING wrote: What I hear "Please don't nerf my gun!" I'd be fine with a BrAR being removed or Breach versions of the other guns being added. Also if they buffed CRs or RRs (Or in RR's case, nerf the charge just a bit more.) I'd also be fine with it, but my ADV Gal sent should be able to kill and assault with a boundless faster than he can with a basic BrAR, even more so when he's playing in a militia suit. Actually I don't use the breach, I use the assault rail rifle mainly. But being a gallente loyalist I would hate to see the only effective gallente weapon be unreasonably nerfed. This made me lol
Kayla Michael Tactical Logistics and Cargo Northern Associates. 38	Posted - 2014.12.07 21:57:00 - [22] - Quote Overpowered.
BL4CKST4R Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 3424	Posted - 2014.12.07 22:03:00 - [23] - Quote Jack 3enimble wrote: BL4CKST4R wrote: sir RAVEN WING wrote: What I hear "Please don't nerf my gun!" I'd be fine with a BrAR being removed or Breach versions of the other guns being added. Also if they buffed CRs or RRs (Or in RR's case, nerf the charge just a bit more.) I'd also be fine with it, but my ADV Gal sent should be able to kill and assault with a boundless faster than he can with a basic BrAR, even more so when he's playing in a militia suit. Actually I don't use the breach, I use the assault rail rifle mainly. But being a gallente loyalist I would hate to see the only effective gallente weapon be unreasonably nerfed. This made me lol Hey the rail is a hell of a weapon, and Gallente (EVE side) use either rails and blasters, mostly blasters, but I can use rails while still being loyal supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
xavier zor Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 323	Posted - 2014.12.08 00:43:00 - [24] - Quote Breach has lower clip, and your math must be wrong. The breach has been buffed by 14% so the DPS would be much more different when compared to its duvolle counter-part 1.10 will kill stealthy scouts time to respec into an assault :D
BL4CKST4R Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 3427	Posted - 2014.12.08 00:46:00 - [25] - Quote xavier zor wrote: Breach has lower clip, and your math must be wrong. The breach has been buffed by 14% so the DPS would be much more different when compared to its duvolle counter-part Lol... Its definitely not wrong. The damage was buffed by 14% from before when it was low as hell. Why don't you open up the market place and look at the Duvolle and breach, take damage and rof and multiply those numbers, then divide by 60. That's dps. To get damage per clip, take the damage per shot and multiply by clip. supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
Heimdallr69 Nyain San General Tso's Alliance 3848	Posted - 2014.12.08 00:46:00 - [26] - Quote It's range might be a bit much.. Removed inappropriate content - CCP Logibro
BL4CKST4R Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 3427	Posted - 2014.12.08 00:47:00 - [27] - Quote Heimdallr69 wrote: It's range might be a bit much.. It's only 40M, that's almost nothing compared to the range of other weapons, specially the hmg which competes at that range. supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
Atiim Titans of Phoenix 14198	Posted - 2014.12.08 00:49:00 - [28] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: Actually I don't use the breach, I use the assault rail rifle mainly. But being a gallente loyalist I would hate to see the only effective gallente weapon be unreasonably nerfed. Breach ARs are far from the only effective Gallente Weapon. The 1st Matari Commando -HAND
Lynn Beck Delta Vanguard 6 2323	Posted - 2014.12.08 01:12:00 - [29] - Quote Breach assault rifle has more DPS, despite being a breach variant. Nerf the ***** gun. General John Ripper -BAM!** I'm Emeril Lagasse. This message was approved by the 'Nobody Loved You' Foundation'
BL4CKST4R Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 3429	Posted - 2014.12.08 01:27:00 - [30] - Quote Lynn Beck wrote: Breach assault rifle has more DPS, despite being a breach variant. Nerf the ******* gun. It has 3 more dps, the DPS difference between the two is 0.66% supercalifragilisticexpialidocious

Jack 3enimble Titans of Phoenix 527	Posted - 2014.12.08 05:15:00 - [31] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: Heimdallr69 wrote: It's range might be a bit much.. It's only 40M, that's almost nothing compared to the range of other weapons, specially the hmg which competes at that range. Bro, please stop with the fairy tales on the BAR range. The thing drops people at 60M, you know it, I know it and the whole damn community knows it because everybody and their mom use the BAR
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. 2567	Posted - 2014.12.08 05:21:00 - [32] - Quote Ghosts Chance wrote: you forgot to mention giving the damn thing ANY kick would be a sufficiant nerf. damn things steady as a rock. For Weapon kick to actually matter in this game. Aim assist and Hit detection systems would have to be completely redone. It Doesn't matter how much kick a weapon has in this game.. When your crosshair's light up and Aim assist locks your crosshairs on target. There is no missing... You are not hitting 50% of the time and 50% bullets are lost in recoil and aim readjustments... You hit 80-90% bullet accuracy with Aim assist.... This is why enemies can't hit you... Then all of a sudden....... BAAAAMMMM, they can't miss and u die in less then a second. Plug in a mouse? And the finite aiming field you have to hit targets mixed with weapon characteristics like a Rail rifle... Make aiming and hitting targets extremely extremely difficult. We will never achieve weapon balance with the way Aim assist and DUST's hit detection system works. Sad but the truth of it.
LUGMOS YELLOW JESUS EXP FORCE 1055	Posted - 2014.12.08 05:50:00 - [33] - Quote Atiim wrote: BL4CKST4R wrote: Actually I don't use the breach, I use the assault rail rifle mainly. But being a gallente loyalist I would hate to see the only effective gallente weapon be unreasonably nerfed. Breach ARs are far from the only effective Gallente Weapon. Yeah! My Plasma Cannon wants an apology! Official QuafeGäó Advocate Anti-FoTM Prof. V Forum Scavenger Prof. V
BL4CKST4R Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 3431	Posted - 2014.12.08 05:56:00 - [34] - Quote LUGMOS wrote: Atiim wrote: BL4CKST4R wrote: Actually I don't use the breach, I use the assault rail rifle mainly. But being a gallente loyalist I would hate to see the only effective gallente weapon be unreasonably nerfed. Breach ARs are far from the only effective Gallente Weapon. Yeah! My Plasma Cannon wants an apology! lol okay Gallente weapons are good within their niche, but when it comes to versatility they fail. Now if every other weapon was niche then the Gallente weapons would be very good but most weapons are extremely versatile, due to their much longer range and very small DPS sacrifices. supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
Stupid Blueberry Hyasyoda Terrestrial Acquisitions Firm 675	Posted - 2014.12.08 07:23:00 - [35] - Quote what is "applied dps" Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Haajakin Kalen.
Greiv Rabbah 13Art of War13 37	Posted - 2014.12.08 08:10:00 - [36] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: LUGMOS wrote: Atiim wrote: BL4CKST4R wrote: Actually I don't use the breach, I use the assault rail rifle mainly. But being a gallente loyalist I would hate to see the only effective gallente weapon be unreasonably nerfed. Breach ARs are far from the only effective Gallente Weapon. Yeah! My Plasma Cannon wants an apology! lol okay Gallente weapons are good within their niche, but when it comes to versatility they fail. Now if every other weapon was niche then the Gallente weapons would be very good but most weapons are extremely versatile, due to their much longer range and very small DPS sacrifices. Gallente plasma cannon is a short range av fireball. Shotgun is a short range burst of fire, ion pistol is a cross between ar and shotgun. Gallente have cool and versatile weapons as long as you remember that they're just fireballs, so they're bound to fall apart at distance. In close range, gal weapons pack a punch. They're very versatile in urban combat. Amarr and minmatar don't even have real av weapons. Mass driver and laser rifle were av weapons before being needed to death so "versatility" falls on deaf ears for that one I think. Also the sniper rifle(which used to be capable if shooting tank gunners off their turrets) can't even hit a target if they're as close as you'd like to ve with an ar, so trust, range is limiting on different weapons in different ways
Colossus of Sardia SWARMYARD 1	Posted - 2014.12.08 13:30:00 - [37] - Quote i run a speed tanked minmatar heavy and the BrAR is one of the most deadly weapons against me. if i run into a Minmatar/Caldari Assault/Scout with a BrAR i'm dead 70% of the time. they drop me insanely fast while i can't scratch their shields with my HMG (somehow they strafing affects the hit detection and i only get blueshields) while they just pray n'spray. the BrAr drops me sometimes even faster than a heavy with a HMG. it shouldnt be nerfed to the ground but something has to change (maybe increased kick-back or a shorter optimal range, so it stays king in CQC.
BL4CKST4R Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 3436	Posted - 2014.12.08 13:36:00 - [38] - Quote Colossus of Sardia wrote: i run a speed tanked minmatar heavy and the BrAR is one of the most deadly weapons against me. if i run into a Minmatar/Caldari Assault/Scout with a BrAR i'm dead 70% of the time. they drop me insanely fast while i can't scratch their shields with my HMG (somehow they strafing affects the hit detection and i only get blueshields) while they just pray n'spray. the BrAr drops me sometimes even faster than a heavy with a HMG. it shouldnt be nerfed to the ground but something has to change (maybe increased kick-back or a shorter optimal range, so it stays king in CQC. Because your speed tanked, which breach type weapons excel against. supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
TYCHUS MAXWELL The Fun Police 667	Posted - 2014.12.08 13:39:00 - [39] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: sir RAVEN WING wrote: What I hear "Please don't nerf my gun!" I'd be fine with a BrAR being removed or Breach versions of the other guns being added. Also if they buffed CRs or RRs (Or in RR's case, nerf the charge just a bit more.) I'd also be fine with it, but my ADV Gal sent should be able to kill and assault with a boundless faster than he can with a basic BrAR, even more so when he's playing in a militia suit. Actually I don't use the breach, I use the assault rail rifle mainly. But being a gallente loyalist I would hate to see the only effective gallente weapon be unreasonably nerfed. Oh but I thought you said the BAR is comparative to the Duvolle in your opening argument? Looks like someone doesn't believe the bullshit they are peddling either. Lower kick and dispersion combined with insane effective range is why it outclasses any other automatic rifle. You have to remember that until a weapon hits the absolute maximum range it deals a percentage of its damage and the higher the base damage likewise the more effective it will still be within its effective range. Likewise lower RPM means it has lower kick and dispersion which also means it has less in terms of kick and dispersion. The only way I see them fixing the breach so that it doesn't outclass the AR and TAR is if it has its optimal range was dropped to 30m instead of 40 and the effective to follow suit mathematically at 52.5 effective. When I think of breaching I think of weaponry designed for doing just that opening breaches in somethings defenses. Breach light variants should be designed as CQC variants. The Forge gun would be the exception as its breaching power is more literal (breaching hulls on vehicles with high damage.) The Duvolle TAR would be good if all the precision rifles behaved like the TAR (Horrible CQC), but until CCP finally corrects the ability to spam ScR in CQC people will always favor the ScR over the TAR.
TYCHUS MAXWELL The Fun Police 667	Posted - 2014.12.08 13:40:00 - [40] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: Colossus of Sardia wrote: i run a speed tanked minmatar heavy and the BrAR is one of the most deadly weapons against me. if i run into a Minmatar/Caldari Assault/Scout with a BrAR i'm dead 70% of the time. they drop me insanely fast while i can't scratch their shields with my HMG (somehow they strafing affects the hit detection and i only get blueshields) while they just pray n'spray. the BrAr drops me sometimes even faster than a heavy with a HMG. it shouldnt be nerfed to the ground but something has to change (maybe increased kick-back or a shorter optimal range, so it stays king in CQC. Because your speed tanked, which breach type weapons excel against. Breach smg and Breach Forge does not excel against speed tanks. You are making **** up.

BL4CKST4R Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 3436	Posted - 2014.12.08 14:03:00 - [41] - Quote TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote: BL4CKST4R wrote: Colossus of Sardia wrote: i run a speed tanked minmatar heavy and the BrAR is one of the most deadly weapons against me. if i run into a Minmatar/Caldari Assault/Scout with a BrAR i'm dead 70% of the time. they drop me insanely fast while i can't scratch their shields with my HMG (somehow they strafing affects the hit detection and i only get blueshields) while they just pray n'spray. the BrAr drops me sometimes even faster than a heavy with a HMG. it shouldnt be nerfed to the ground but something has to change (maybe increased kick-back or a shorter optimal range, so it stays king in CQC. Because your speed tanked, which breach type weapons excel against. Breach smg and Breach Forge does not excel against speed tanks. You are making **** up. Breach as in rail rifles and assault rifles... the rof of the breach SMG is slower so technically it IS better against faster targets but its still a pretty fast ROF. The breach forge doesn't really count because it isnt automatic.... supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
Nestil SWARMYARD 160	Posted - 2014.12.08 14:12:00 - [42] - Quote I used the beach ar before it's buff and back then I thought of it as an potent weapon. now it's even stronger O.o.... feels more like an overkill.
TYCHUS MAXWELL The Fun Police 669	Posted - 2014.12.08 14:30:00 - [43] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote: BL4CKST4R wrote: Colossus of Sardia wrote: i run a speed tanked minmatar heavy and the BrAR is one of the most deadly weapons against me. if i run into a Minmatar/Caldari Assault/Scout with a BrAR i'm dead 70% of the time. they drop me insanely fast while i can't scratch their shields with my HMG (somehow they strafing affects the hit detection and i only get blueshields) while they just pray n'spray. the BrAr drops me sometimes even faster than a heavy with a HMG. it shouldnt be nerfed to the ground but something has to change (maybe increased kick-back or a shorter optimal range, so it stays king in CQC. Because your speed tanked, which breach type weapons excel against. Breach smg and Breach Forge does not excel against speed tanks. You are making **** up. Breach as in rail rifles and assault rifles... the rof of the breach SMG is slower so technically it IS better against faster targets but its still a pretty fast ROF. The breach forge doesn't really count because it isnt automatic.... We don't have breach variants outside of the AR right now though, and I'd rather take the assault variant for hitting speed tanks in CQC then the breach smg. To me breach should be the CQC variant, the Tactical is supposed to be the long range variant and the assault is supposed to be the suppression variant. Right now the BAR is both great for suppression and distance fighting. Assault variants should be the best at handling speed tanks due to their high rate of fire. This is generally true and is true with the smg but not with the BAR. That's because the BAR is too good at too many things. All variants are supposed to have a niche, if not then what the hell is the point of variants?
BL4CKST4R Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 3436	Posted - 2014.12.08 14:35:00 - [44] - Quote TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote: BL4CKST4R wrote: TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote: BL4CKST4R wrote: Colossus of Sardia wrote: i run a speed tanked minmatar heavy and the BrAR is one of the most deadly weapons against me. if i run into a Minmatar/Caldari Assault/Scout with a BrAR i'm dead 70% of the time. they drop me insanely fast while i can't scratch their shields with my HMG (somehow they strafing affects the hit detection and i only get blueshields) while they just pray n'spray. the BrAr drops me sometimes even faster than a heavy with a HMG. it shouldnt be nerfed to the ground but something has to change (maybe increased kick-back or a shorter optimal range, so it stays king in CQC. Because your speed tanked, which breach type weapons excel against. Breach smg and Breach Forge does not excel against speed tanks. You are making **** up. Breach as in rail rifles and assault rifles... the rof of the breach SMG is slower so technically it IS better against faster targets but its still a pretty fast ROF. The breach forge doesn't really count because it isnt automatic.... We don't have breach variants outside of the AR right now though, and I'd rather take the assault variant for hitting speed tanks in CQC then the breach smg. To me breach should be the CQC variant, the Tactical is supposed to be the long range variant and the assault is supposed to be the suppression variant. Right now the BAR is both great for suppression and distance fighting. Assault variants should be the best at handling speed tanks due to their high rate of fire. This is generally true and is true with the smg but not with the BAR. That's because the BAR is too good at too many things. All variants are supposed to have a niche, if not then what the hell is the point of variants? Rail rifles are naturally breach weapons..... breach weapons = low rof + high damage. The bolt pistol is a breach weapon also. Assault variants suck against speed tanks because they lose to much damage as the target moves around. supercalifragilisticexpialidocious


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