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Clone D
Grundstein Automation
970
   |
Posted - 2014.12.07 03:32:00 -
[1] - Quote
Current scan range will be effectively halved in 1.10.
What scouts can currently detect at 20 meters, they will be able to detect at 10 meters in 1.10. While scan range will extend to 20 meters, the precision has been nerfed between 10 - 20 meters.
Excerpts from http://dust514.com/news/blog/2014/12/uprising-1.10-overview-patch-notes/
Scan Precision:
- Light Frames:
Scout: Close/Medium/Far = 20/40/52
Scan Range:
- Light Frames:
Scout: Close/Medium/Far = 4/10/20
ISK Trader
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
EoN.
2439
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Posted - 2014.12.07 04:06:00 -
[2] - Quote
I don't understand any of this.
I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
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Jack 3enimble
Titans of Phoenix
523
|
Posted - 2014.12.07 04:07:00 -
[3] - Quote
So? |
Clone D
Grundstein Automation
970
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Posted - 2014.12.07 04:11:00 -
[4] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:I don't understand any of this.
Currently, by default, a scout has a scan precision of 40db out to 20 meters.
After 1.10, by default, a scout has a scan precision of 40db between 5-10 meters.
This is another nerf that severely reduces the effectiveness of a lonewolf player.
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Clone D
Grundstein Automation
970
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Posted - 2014.12.07 04:12:00 -
[5] - Quote
If you don't understand why it's a big deal, then don't worry about it.
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One Eyed King
Land of the BIind
6394
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Posted - 2014.12.07 04:14:00 -
[6] - Quote
Apparently they want Logis to be the scanning suit now.
I don't agree with it, but it is what it is.
Thunderbolt. verb and noun.
"James thunderbolted in his pants."
"I lit a bag of thunderbolt on fire on CCP's doorway"
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Jack 3enimble
Titans of Phoenix
523
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Posted - 2014.12.07 04:15:00 -
[7] - Quote
Clone D wrote:If you don't understand why it's a big deal, then don't worry about it.
LOL. Trust me i do understand. A little crystal balling tells me you're specced into scouts |
PARKOUR PRACTIONER
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
2300
|
Posted - 2014.12.07 04:22:00 -
[8] - Quote
One Eyed King wrote:Apparently they want Logis to be the scanning suit now.
I don't agree with it, but it is what it is.
Logis being support role so they should get some EWAR. Not to replace scouts, but to support whoever there supporting.
But with the recent buff to scanners.... i dont know.
PSN Sil4ntChaozz
HAWK, NINJA, ASSASSIN, STORMTROOPER
Being a better Me not a better you
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One Eyed King
Land of the BIind
6394
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Posted - 2014.12.07 04:26:00 -
[9] - Quote
PARKOUR PRACTIONER wrote:One Eyed King wrote:Apparently they want Logis to be the scanning suit now.
I don't agree with it, but it is what it is. Logis being support role so they should get some EWAR. Not to replace scouts, but to support whoever there supporting. But with the recent buff to scanners.... i dont know.
They went too far with the EWAR changes IMO.
Its one thing to give medium frames a greater stake in EWAR, its another thing for them to gain so much ground that they are in danger of becoming better scouts than scouts.
Thunderbolt. verb and noun.
"James thunderbolted in his pants."
"I lit a bag of thunderbolt on fire on CCP's doorway"
|
Clone D
Grundstein Automation
970
|
Posted - 2014.12.07 04:27:00 -
[10] - Quote
Jack 3enimble wrote:Clone D wrote:If you don't understand why it's a big deal, then don't worry about it. LOL. Trust me i do understand. A little crystal balling tells me you're specced into scouts
I specced into everything and play all roles.
It's just another way that soloists are being nerfed nerfed nerfed from every angle.
Yes, people claim it is a team game. Yes, I squad up regularly.
I experience extreme technical difficulties when I activate voice such as frame rate drop and lag, which makes playing in a squad a mere social experience. If I want better frame rates, higher performance, and a significantly more enjoyable gaming experience then I am forced to play solo without voice.
Squad members continue to share TACNET info about passively scanned hostiles, while soloists now deal with 1/2 the range that was previously available at the 40db precision level.
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Bethhy
Ancient Exiles.
2549
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Posted - 2014.12.07 04:29:00 -
[11] - Quote
A change was needed.
But starting by Halfing things?
Wtf is wrong with CCP.... Have they not learned anything from 2 years of doing this and wasting their time?
Do they have that little ability to learn from past mistakes? Or are they destined to repeat the same **** over and over.
When you have a hotfix structure already established... Why not just reduce statistics by 1/4 for now?..... 1/5 .... Hell, there are alot of fractions I can come up with for tweaking a number then just starting by nerfing it by 50%....
It just makes you shake your head in disbelief. |
One Eyed King
Land of the BIind
6396
|
Posted - 2014.12.07 04:31:00 -
[12] - Quote
Bethhy wrote:A change was needed.
But starting by Halfing things?
Wtf is wrong with CCP.... Have they not learned anything from 2 years of doing this and wasting their time?
Do they have that little ability to learn from past mistakes? Or are they destined to repeat the same **** over and over.
When you have a hotfix structure already established... Why not just reduce statistics by 1/4..... 1/5 .... Hell there are alot of fractions i can come up with for tweaking a number then just straight up nerfing it by 50%....
It just makes you shake your head in disbelief.
I think they just want to get something put in place that they CAN hotfix.
My hope is that when the data comes back about what they broke they can amend their new system to bring things back in line.
My fear is that the system is so complex that re balencing one thing breaks something elsewhere, and they are forever in a circle of fix one thing, breaking another etc.
Thunderbolt. verb and noun.
"James thunderbolted in his pants."
"I lit a bag of thunderbolt on fire on CCP's doorway"
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Meeko Fent
Kirkinen Risk Control
Caldari State
2219
|
Posted - 2014.12.07 04:34:00 -
[13] - Quote
One Eyed King wrote:Apparently they want Logis to be the scanning suit now.
I don't agree with it, but it is what it is.
Scanning as in...Passive?
OR Active? I'd say its obvious they wanted Logis to wield the Bullhorn of Truth since when it was introduced.
I Live for Tears
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One Eyed King
Land of the BIind
6396
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Posted - 2014.12.07 04:39:00 -
[14] - Quote
Meeko Fent wrote:One Eyed King wrote:Apparently they want Logis to be the scanning suit now.
I don't agree with it, but it is what it is. Scanning as in...Passive? OR Active? I'd say its obvious they wanted Logis to wield the Bullhorn of Truth since when it was introduced.
Passive.
They have significantly increased range.
Compared to the Cal Scout, which is supposed to be the long range scanner, a Logi will be able to get just 3m shy of the Cal scout. Apparently 3m is enough to not bleed Cal Scouts of their role?
Thunderbolt. verb and noun.
"James thunderbolted in his pants."
"I lit a bag of thunderbolt on fire on CCP's doorway"
|
Bethhy
Ancient Exiles.
2550
|
Posted - 2014.12.07 04:45:00 -
[15] - Quote
One Eyed King wrote:
I think they just want to get something put in place that they CAN hotfix.
My hope is that when the data comes back about what they broke they can amend their new system to bring things back in line.
My fear is that the system is so complex that re balencing one thing breaks something elsewhere, and they are forever in a circle of fix one thing, breaking another etc.
Dude I Have been here since replication.
Do you know how many times they have changed scanning statistics and the tac-net?
Rattati has spent near a year on hotfixes alone, tweaking stats.
Regardless of how broken their messed up mechanics are... Starting by nerfing something by 50% is Mind boggling..
Let alone in a place like DUST 514... Where it has been the number 1 mistake of development in this game. Nerfing things by 50% while buffing several other things in the same field of gameplay.
Which is happening again right before our eyes.
Like the last 2 years of DUST development has never happened.
WITH people defending it.
Like again, Shaking my head in disbelief. |
Meeko Fent
Kirkinen Risk Control
Caldari State
2219
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Posted - 2014.12.07 04:55:00 -
[16] - Quote
One Eyed King wrote:Meeko Fent wrote:One Eyed King wrote:Apparently they want Logis to be the scanning suit now.
I don't agree with it, but it is what it is. Scanning as in...Passive? OR Active? I'd say its obvious they wanted Logis to wield the Bullhorn of Truth since when it was introduced. Passive. They have significantly increased range. Compared to the Cal Scout, which is supposed to be the long range scanner, a Logi will be able to get just 3m shy of the Cal scout (assuming both are maxed). Apparently 3m is enough to not bleed Cal Scouts of their role?
3m, and the power to be invisible, and the lack of a burden to carry equip. They can fit the active scanner, and Cloak, and not have to even bother with things like hives or links, things logis are typically expected to carry.
I Live for Tears
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Joel II X
Bacon with a bottle of Quafe
4925
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Posted - 2014.12.07 05:22:00 -
[17] - Quote
I know. They're removing the scouting from scouts, didn't you know? |
Clone D
Grundstein Automation
971
|
Posted - 2014.12.07 05:37:00 -
[18] - Quote
Joel II X wrote:I know. They're removing the scouting from scouts, didn't you know?
I guess Ratatti plays a logi.
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Atiim
Titans of Phoenix
14188
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Posted - 2014.12.07 06:21:00 -
[19] - Quote
One Eyed King wrote:Apparently they want Logis to be the scanning suit now.
I don't agree with it, but it is what it is.
Well it would make sense if you read the Logistics description.
The 1st Matari Commando
-HAND
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Operative 1174 Uuali
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
163
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Posted - 2014.12.07 06:37:00 -
[20] - Quote
Clone D wrote:Jack 3enimble wrote:Clone D wrote:If you don't understand why it's a big deal, then don't worry about it. LOL. Trust me i do understand. A little crystal balling tells me you're specced into scouts I specced into everything and play all roles. It's just another way that soloists are being nerfed nerfed nerfed from every angle. Yes, people claim it is a team game. Yes, I squad up regularly. I experience extreme technical difficulties when I activate voice such as frame rate drop and lag, which makes playing in a squad a mere social experience. If I want better frame rates, higher performance, and a significantly more enjoyable gaming experience then I am forced to play solo without voice. Squad members continue to share TACNET info about passively scanned hostiles, while soloists now deal with 1/2 the range that was previously available at the 40db precision level.
I'm solo. Doesn't hurt me. Scan range and precision never has helped me. The lag usually negates it.
I'm better than laser focused; I'm hybrid focused.
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Atiim
Titans of Phoenix
14188
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Posted - 2014.12.07 06:39:00 -
[21] - Quote
Clone D wrote:Joel II X wrote:I know. They're removing the scouting from scouts, didn't you know? I guess Ratatti plays a logi.
He plays as a Gallente Assault.
The 1st Matari Commando
-HAND
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Clone D
Grundstein Automation
972
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Posted - 2014.12.07 06:43:00 -
[22] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Clone D wrote:Joel II X wrote:I know. They're removing the scouting from scouts, didn't you know? I guess Ratatti plays a logi. He plays as a Gallente Assault.
While I did not know that, I was sarcastically implying that logis are being supercharged in 1.10.
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IAmDuncanIdaho II
R 0 N 1 N
1027
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Posted - 2014.12.07 08:20:00 -
[23] - Quote
Bethhy wrote:One Eyed King wrote:
I think they just want to get something put in place that they CAN hotfix.
My hope is that when the data comes back about what they broke they can amend their new system to bring things back in line.
My fear is that the system is so complex that re balencing one thing breaks something elsewhere, and they are forever in a circle of fix one thing, breaking another etc.
Dude I Have been here since replication. Do you know how many times they have changed scanning statistics and the tac-net? Rattati has spent near a year on hotfixes alone, tweaking stats. Regardless of how broken their messed up mechanics are... Starting by nerfing something by 50% is Mind boggling.. Let alone in a place like DUST 514... Where it has been the number 1 mistake of development in this game. Nerfing things by 50% while buffing several other things in the same field of gameplay. Which is happening again right before our eyes. Like the last 2 years of DUST development has never happened. WITH people defending it. Like again, Shaking my head in disbelief.
Totally agree. Under the guise of shaking up the meta. Shaking it so the wheels drop off is shaking it too hard.
The cynic in me wants to think they are doing this to shake faux-scouts out of the dropsuit command skill tree with 36,000 AUR.
The optimist in me hopes it will still have fun as a Minja.
You must learn honor, or you deserve to learn nothing at all.
~ Rivvy Dinari - Swordmaster of Ginaz
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Mordecai Snake
Sardaukar Merc Guild
General Tso's Alliance
75
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Posted - 2014.12.07 08:35:00 -
[24] - Quote
Logi's range is being nerfed too. From 15m to 12.5m |
Llast 326
An Arkhos
5697
|
Posted - 2014.12.07 09:06:00 -
[25] - Quote
Meeko Fent wrote:One Eyed King wrote:Meeko Fent wrote:One Eyed King wrote:Apparently they want Logis to be the scanning suit now.
I don't agree with it, but it is what it is. Scanning as in...Passive? OR Active? I'd say its obvious they wanted Logis to wield the Bullhorn of Truth since when it was introduced. Passive. They have significantly increased range. Compared to the Cal Scout, which is supposed to be the long range scanner, a Logi will be able to get just 3m shy of the Cal scout (assuming both are maxed). Apparently 3m is enough to not bleed Cal Scouts of their role? 3m, and the power to be invisible, and the lack of a burden to carry equip. They can fit the active scanner, and Cloak, and not have to even bother with things like hives or links, things logis are typically expected to carry.
Don't forget those Passives are shared with the Heavy in square at the end of said Logi's ReptoolGǪ
MOAR Ladders
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Daddrobit
You Can Call Me Daddy
1136
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Posted - 2014.12.07 09:55:00 -
[26] - Quote
Logi the new scout? I don't think so.
Yeah, the logi might get a decent base scan range, but scouts still have a waaaaaay lower precision, and several scouts get bonuses to range/precision. Logis having range doesn't mean anything if they can't pick anything up. Not to mention logis can't hide for crap either since their profile blows as well.
Logis will just be able to see heavies and mediums, scouts won't have to worry about anything they don't already worry about now: other scouts and proto gal logis.
O.G. Pink Fluffy Bunny
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Varoth Drac
Titans of Phoenix
452
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Posted - 2014.12.07 10:45:00 -
[27] - Quote
It's not a 50% range nerf to scouts it's at 30% precision nerf to scans over half range.
Scouts will no longer pick up mediums over 15m. I recommend a precision mod.
Yes it's a scout nerf, but not as bad as halving range.
All other suits are getting significant EWAR buffs. All good except short scans are too strong and range amps are too weak in 1.10. At least, that's what I predict. |
Clone D
Grundstein Automation
984
|
Posted - 2014.12.07 13:15:00 -
[28] - Quote
Varoth Drac wrote:It's not a 50% range nerf to scouts it's at 30% precision nerf to scans over half range.
Stated in the OP in not so many words.
Varoth Drac wrote:Yes it's a scout nerf, but not as bad as halving range.
What could once be detected out to 20 m can now be detected out to 10 m. That effectively halves range of 40db precision, stated in OP.
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CommanderBolt
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
2672
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Posted - 2014.12.07 16:02:00 -
[29] - Quote
Bethhy wrote:A change was needed.
But starting by Halfing things?
Wtf is wrong with CCP.... Have they not learned anything from 2 years of doing this and wasting their time?
Do they have that little ability to learn from past mistakes? Or are they destined to repeat the same **** over and over.
When you have a hotfix structure already established... Why not just reduce statistics by 1/4 for now?..... 1/5 .... Hell, there are alot of fractions I can come up with for tweaking a number then just starting by nerfing it by 50%....
It just makes you shake your head in disbelief.
Agreed.
They are either A. Totally clueless and I mean literally CLUELESS about the impact their changes will have in game.
OR
B. Totally over zealous of their understanding of the game, thinking they can keep it under control.
I suppose there is option C. CCP just likes to screw and troll with us which actually would not surprise me either.
"Also I think knives are a good idea, big f**k-off shiny ones"
"Guns for show, Knives for a pro"
MY LIFE FOR AIUR!
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Duke Noobiam
The Dukes of Death
284
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Posted - 2014.12.07 18:11:00 -
[30] - Quote
Scouts who want to rule ewar will have to use precision enhancers now instead of stacking shield extenders. This is aligned with the goal of making scouts play as actual scouts rather than assault suits.
Scouts have had too many advantages of late and this is another good step towards balancing them.
BPO dropsuits owned:
Sever M-1 logi, Quafe M-1 assault, Quafe M-1 scout, Raven C-1 assault, Dragonfly G-1 scout
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Clone D
Grundstein Automation
984
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Posted - 2014.12.07 18:42:00 -
[31] - Quote
Duke Noobiam wrote:Scouts who want to rule ewar will have to use precision enhancers now instead of stacking shield extenders. This is aligned with the goal of making scouts play as actual scouts rather than assault suits.
Agreed, I have played an ewar scout fitting without shield/armor tanking for a long while. I use all of my slots for ewar and the problem is that precision has always been much weaker than dampening. Now that range has been halved at the 40db precision level, we will see 25% of the information (pi*R^2) that was once available at the 40db level which nerfs ewar to a nearly unusable amount, especially for scout vs scout ewar.
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DrewEon
T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K
31
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Posted - 2014.12.07 18:52:00 -
[32] - Quote
I really think that this update sucks. I understand that this will be helpful for anyone who doesn't run scouts, so they're less likely to be seen and killed. But for those of us scout who aren't total jerks that have 600hp, like me, this update sucks. The only proto suit I have is a scout ck.0. I run 349 shield and 74 armor with combat/rail rifles. The only way I survive is by my ability to see enemies on the minimap. That is my ONLY defense. And a cloak. Thanks ccp. You suck. I mean rock.
You suck |
Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
5385
|
Posted - 2014.12.07 19:15:00 -
[33] - Quote
A scout may have to fit one range amp and precision enhancer to have omnipotent passive EWAR scans?! Wha-NO! The scout-gods will have nothing of this nonsense!
Sorry, not sorry.
My advice to you, playa...
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One Eyed King
Land of the BIind
6413
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Posted - 2014.12.07 19:20:00 -
[34] - Quote
Duke Noobiam wrote:Scouts who want to rule ewar will have to use precision enhancers now instead of stacking shield extenders. This is aligned with the goal of making scouts play as actual scouts rather than assault suits.
Scouts have had too many advantages of late and this is another good step towards balancing them.
I think that if they were to simply have shifted bonuses towards efficacy based, like it was much discussed long before "circles," it would have gone a long way towards minimizing assault scouts while not creating role bleed.
@ Bethhy
I look at Dust development as taking a significant change with Rattati, and while I am aware of and have experienced many of the other issues you brought up, I am trying to have faith that the current development process is much less scattered. I do share your fears though.
Thunderbolt. verb and noun.
"James thunderbolted in his pants."
"I lit a bag of thunderbolt on fire on CCP's doorway"
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Ares 514
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
1012
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Posted - 2014.12.07 19:22:00 -
[35] - Quote
Ripley Riley wrote:A scout may have to fit one range amp and precision enhancer to have omnipotent passive EWAR scans?! Wha-NO! The scout-gods will have nothing of this nonsense!
Sorry, not sorry.
It's kind of funny you think someone will be fitting range amps come 1.10. They're going to be useless.... all my fits with them will be deleted.
Overlord of Broman
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Clone D
Grundstein Automation
984
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Posted - 2014.12.07 19:27:00 -
[36] - Quote
Ripley Riley wrote:A scout may have to fit one range amp and precision enhancer to have omnipotent passive EWAR scans?! Wha-NO! The scout-gods will have nothing of this nonsense!
Sorry, not sorry.
Always such a sarcastic commenter who apparently doesn't do calculations. It takes a full complement of complex precision enhancers to get any remotely useful information out of TACNET. It takes nearly a full complement of range amps to detect scouts at a useful distance, since many slayer scouts are kincat tanked and running viziam or carthums which have a much greater range than TACNET anyway.
Due to network communication time, quick scouts can travel deep into your TACNET radius before the radar screen updates on your client, often times too late. 10 or 15 meter range is nowhere near enough of a warning for incoming slayers.
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One Eyed King
Land of the BIind
6413
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Posted - 2014.12.07 19:27:00 -
[37] - Quote
Ripley Riley wrote:A scout may have to fit one range amp and precision enhancer to have omnipotent passive EWAR scans?! Wha-NO! The scout-gods will have nothing of this nonsense!
Sorry, not sorry.
The "omnipotent" EWAR scans are a matter of increasing the power of scans in the inner circle, not something specifically to do with scouts.
Also, this was done so mediums can now not be snuck up on.
Again, the fix seems to be to make everyone more like scouts, which isn't a good fix at all IMO. Particularly when other things were already looked into.
Thunderbolt. verb and noun.
"James thunderbolted in his pants."
"I lit a bag of thunderbolt on fire on CCP's doorway"
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Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
5385
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Posted - 2014.12.07 19:31:00 -
[38] - Quote
Ares 514 wrote:It's kind of funny you think someone will be fitting range amps come 1.10. They're going to be useless... all my fits with them will be deleted. The second scan range ring on scouts is 10m.
(10 * 1.5) from the skill = 15m
(15 * 1.45) proto range amp = 21.75m
Scouts will have to fit one module to return to their pre-EWAR balance levels of badassery. One module spent on their actual role, one less module spent on brick tanking.
I am so ******* excited for 1.10. Seriously, this change alone makes 1.10 worth my time.
Plus bandwidth keeping logi role tourists off my battlefield.
Me right now: 
Clone D wrote:Always such a sarcastic commenter who apparently doesn't do calculations.
Requires calculations of me.
Doesn't provide any of his own to back up these statements...
Clone D wrote:It takes a full complement of complex precision enhancers to get any remotely useful information out of TACNET. It takes nearly a full complement of range amps to detect scouts at a useful distance.
Oh Clone D, your troll threads never fail to disappoint me. They are work of the finest quality.
My advice to you, playa...
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Ares 514
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
1012
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Posted - 2014.12.07 19:34:00 -
[39] - Quote
Ripley Riley wrote:Ares 514 wrote:It's kind of funny you think someone will be fitting range amps come 1.10. They're going to be useless... all my fits with them will be deleted. The second scan range ring on scouts is 10m. (10 * 1.5) from the skill = 15m (15 * 1.45) proto range amp = 21.75m Scouts will have to fit one module to return to their pre-EWAR balance levels of badassery. One module spent on their actual role, one less module spent on brick tanking. I am so ******* excited for 1.10. Seriously, this change alone makes 1.10 worth my time. Plus bandwidth keeping logi role tourists off my battlefield. Me right now:
They reduced the range amp from 45% to 15% (or 25%? someone correct me if i'm wrong). Anyways, they had to make them have little effect to stop the short range circle from going nuts on scouts/logi's (with tons of low slots). Personally i think they should have made the short circle range static and left range amps how they were (they are currently under used).
Edit: found it : * Range Amplifiers now add 5%/10%/15% range per tier.
Overlord of Broman
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Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
5385
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Posted - 2014.12.07 19:38:00 -
[40] - Quote
Ares 514 wrote:They reduced the range amp from 45% to 15% (or 25%? someone correct me if i'm wrong). Anyways, they had to make them have little effect to stop the short range circle from going nuts on scouts/logi's (with tons of low slots). Personally i think they should have made the short circle range static and left range amps how they were (they are currently under used).
Edit: found it : * Range Amplifiers now add 5%/10%/15% range per tier. I just saw that note, adjusting my previous math.
10m * 1.5 - 15m
15m * 1.15 from proto range amp = 17.25m
So they lost, what, 2.75m this patch? Don't they still get the best scan precision and scan profiles? Aren't they the only dropsuit with bonuses to EWAR? Yeah? Alright then.
My advice to you, playa...
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Ares 514
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
1012
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Posted - 2014.12.07 19:43:00 -
[41] - Quote
Ripley Riley wrote:Ares 514 wrote:They reduced the range amp from 45% to 15% (or 25%? someone correct me if i'm wrong). Anyways, they had to make them have little effect to stop the short range circle from going nuts on scouts/logi's (with tons of low slots). Personally i think they should have made the short circle range static and left range amps how they were (they are currently under used).
Edit: found it : * Range Amplifiers now add 5%/10%/15% range per tier. I just saw that note, adjusting my previous math. 10m * 1.5 = 15m 15m * 1.15 from proto range amp = 17.25m So they lost, what, 2.75m this patch? Don't they still get the best scan precision and scan profiles? Aren't they the only dropsuit with bonuses to EWAR? Don't they get a huge bonus to fit a cloaking device, a module that further reduces their scan profile? Yeah? Alright then.
Range Amplifiers are no longer worth using IMO, which is sad.
Overlord of Broman
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Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
5385
|
Posted - 2014.12.07 19:47:00 -
[42] - Quote
Ares 514 wrote:Range Amplifiers are no longer worth using IMO, which is sad. For scouts, using a single range amp gets you close to pre-1.10 scan ranges. If that doesn't appeal to you, then don't fit them. Not sure what to tell you.
I'll be running one or two on my Amarr scout. Count on it. I will need to experiment with both fittings to see which works best for me.
My advice to you, playa...
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Vulpes Dolosus
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
2661
|
Posted - 2014.12.07 19:49:00 -
[43] - Quote
Ripley Riley wrote:Ares 514 wrote:They reduced the range amp from 45% to 15% (or 25%? someone correct me if i'm wrong). Anyways, they had to make them have little effect to stop the short range circle from going nuts on scouts/logi's (with tons of low slots). Personally i think they should have made the short circle range static and left range amps how they were (they are currently under used).
Edit: found it : * Range Amplifiers now add 5%/10%/15% range per tier. I just saw that note, adjusting my previous math. 10m * 1.5 = 15m 15m * 1.15 from proto range amp = 17.25m So they lost, what, 2.75m this patch? Don't they still get the best scan precision and scan profiles? Aren't they the only dropsuit with bonuses to EWAR? Don't they get a huge bonus to fit a cloaking device, a module that further reduces their scan profile? Yeah? Alright then.
The Cal scout (you know, the one that gets the 50% range bonus?) barely beats the Logi on scan range.
From my spread sheet (base/x1/x2/x3) (this is also the 50%, unpenalized scan range):
Cal: | Logi:
22.5 | 18.75
25.8 | 21.56
29.2 | 24.37
(n/a) | 26.18
Even with the 50% range bonus (1.5m SP, btw), the Cal scout only wins by 4m at every level. Precision isn't a distinction since neither can reliably get down to dampened scout dB, except in their closest range in which the numbers are similar.
Dust is there! I was real!
Dear diary, Rattati senpai noticed me today~
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One Eyed King
Land of the BIind
6414
|
Posted - 2014.12.07 19:53:00 -
[44] - Quote
Ripley Riley wrote:Ares 514 wrote:They reduced the range amp from 45% to 15% (or 25%? someone correct me if i'm wrong). Anyways, they had to make them have little effect to stop the short range circle from going nuts on scouts/logi's (with tons of low slots). Personally i think they should have made the short circle range static and left range amps how they were (they are currently under used).
Edit: found it : * Range Amplifiers now add 5%/10%/15% range per tier. I just saw that note, adjusting my previous math. 10m * 1.5 = 15m 15m * 1.15 from proto range amp = 17.25m So they lost, what, 2.75m this patch? Don't they still get the best scan precision and scan profiles? Aren't they the only dropsuit with bonuses to EWAR? Don't they get a huge bonus to fit a cloaking device, a module that further reduces their scan profile? Yeah? Alright then.
Cal Scouts just lost their role.
In 1.10, a Logi will be able to run near the same fit (while having module fitting bonses) and get to 55m when maxed, compared to Cal scouts which will get 58m, down from 70 that they can get now.
Balance should concede that all suits have some role that they are superior enough in that no other suits should be able to steal that role.
Recently, scouts have been able to out assault assaults in some cases, which isn't right. Instead of making the scouts less like assaults, they have chosen to make assaults and logis more like scouts.
The fixes just don't make sense. I don't see why scouts who are dedicated to the role should be punished because things were broken in 1.8 and FotM slayers decided to use our stuff and crap all over our role, then simply purchase a respec in 1.10 and play whatever they want, leaving the dedicated scouts to sort through the mess they left behind.
Thunderbolt. verb and noun.
"James thunderbolted in his pants."
"I lit a bag of thunderbolt on fire on CCP's doorway"
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IAmDuncanIdaho II
R 0 N 1 N
1030
|
Posted - 2014.12.07 20:14:00 -
[45] - Quote
One Eyed King wrote:Ripley Riley wrote:Ares 514 wrote:They reduced the range amp from 45% to 15% (or 25%? someone correct me if i'm wrong). Anyways, they had to make them have little effect to stop the short range circle from going nuts on scouts/logi's (with tons of low slots). Personally i think they should have made the short circle range static and left range amps how they were (they are currently under used).
Edit: found it : * Range Amplifiers now add 5%/10%/15% range per tier. I just saw that note, adjusting my previous math. 10m * 1.5 = 15m 15m * 1.15 from proto range amp = 17.25m So they lost, what, 2.75m this patch? Don't they still get the best scan precision and scan profiles? Aren't they the only dropsuit with bonuses to EWAR? Don't they get a huge bonus to fit a cloaking device, a module that further reduces their scan profile? Yeah? Alright then. Cal Scouts just lost their role. In 1.10, a Logi will be able to run near the same fit (while having module fitting bonses) and get to 55m when maxed, compared to Cal scouts which will get 58m, down from 70 that they can get now. Balance should concede that all suits have some role that they are superior enough in that no other suits should be able to steal that role. Recently, scouts have been able to out assault assaults in some cases, which isn't right. Instead of making the scouts less like assaults, they have chosen to make assaults and logis more like scouts. The fixes just don't make sense. I don't see why scouts who are dedicated to the role should be punished because things were broken in 1.8 and FotM slayers decided to use our stuff and crap all over our role, then simply purchase a respec in 1.10 and play whatever they want, leaving the dedicated scouts to sort through the mess they left behind.
fukin ay my brother.
I am crossing my fingers my Minja won't be unplayable.
You must learn honor, or you deserve to learn nothing at all.
~ Rivvy Dinari - Swordmaster of Ginaz
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Vell0cet
Company of Marcher Lords
Amarr Empire
2648
|
Posted - 2014.12.07 20:23:00 -
[46] - Quote
Ripley Riley wrote:Ares 514 wrote:Range Amplifiers are no longer worth using IMO, which is sad. For scouts, using a single range amp gets you close to pre-1.10 scan ranges. If that doesn't appeal to you, then don't fit them. Not sure what to tell you. I'll be running one or two on my Amarr scout. Count on it. I will need to experiment with both fittings to see which works best for me.
I have concerns about this too. I have "scout hunter" Amarr scout fits designed to counter cloaky shotgun scouts. It's actually a pretty massive nerf to that role. These changes actually help tanky shotgunners. If you're not spotting them until they're ontop of you, you're already dead.
Best PvE idea ever!
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Daddrobit
You Can Call Me Daddy
1148
|
Posted - 2014.12.07 20:29:00 -
[47] - Quote
What ya' all aren't figuring into the equation is the fact that an overwhelming majority of the logis in this game -won't- be fitting mass e-war mods.
With the implementation of BW, equipment using logis won't be sacrificing their slots for ewar because now they need to fit that suit to actually be survivable so they can be combat effective while maintaining their deployed equipment. Sure, you might see folks running one or two range amps, but that suit is going to be paper thin because of it.
Because unlike the Cal Scout, logis can't hide from other scans nearly as well or even at all, fitting a cloak on a logi is a huge waste of fitting, and they sure as hell can't tank by abusing hit detection nearly as well either. Not to mention their precision sucks as well; the only thing these suits are gonna pick up are mediums and heavys, scouts will continue to require other scouts and focused scanners to see.
O.G. Pink Fluffy Bunny
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One Eyed King
Land of the BIind
6417
|
Posted - 2014.12.07 20:33:00 -
[48] - Quote
IAmDuncanIdaho II wrote:One Eyed King wrote:Ripley Riley wrote:Ares 514 wrote:They reduced the range amp from 45% to 15% (or 25%? someone correct me if i'm wrong). Anyways, they had to make them have little effect to stop the short range circle from going nuts on scouts/logi's (with tons of low slots). Personally i think they should have made the short circle range static and left range amps how they were (they are currently under used).
Edit: found it : * Range Amplifiers now add 5%/10%/15% range per tier. I just saw that note, adjusting my previous math. 10m * 1.5 = 15m 15m * 1.15 from proto range amp = 17.25m So they lost, what, 2.75m this patch? Don't they still get the best scan precision and scan profiles? Aren't they the only dropsuit with bonuses to EWAR? Don't they get a huge bonus to fit a cloaking device, a module that further reduces their scan profile? Yeah? Alright then. Cal Scouts just lost their role. In 1.10, a Logi will be able to run near the same fit (while having module fitting bonses) and get to 55m when maxed, compared to Cal scouts which will get 58m, down from 70 that they can get now. Balance should concede that all suits have some role that they are superior enough in that no other suits should be able to steal that role. Recently, scouts have been able to out assault assaults in some cases, which isn't right. Instead of making the scouts less like assaults, they have chosen to make assaults and logis more like scouts. The fixes just don't make sense. I don't see why scouts who are dedicated to the role should be punished because things were broken in 1.8 and FotM slayers decided to use our stuff and crap all over our role, then simply purchase a respec in 1.10 and play whatever they want, leaving the dedicated scouts to sort through the mess they left behind. fukin ay my brother. I am crossing my fingers my Minja won't be unplayable.
Me too...
I have a feeling knifing is going to go from hard to practically impossible. I think we will unfortunately be reduced to novelties again, and with the damage increase to knives to make them better for everyone, Gal might be better options. 
Thunderbolt. verb and noun.
"James thunderbolted in his pants."
"I lit a bag of thunderbolt on fire on CCP's doorway"
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Clone D
Grundstein Automation
986
|
Posted - 2014.12.07 20:33:00 -
[49] - Quote
Daddrobit wrote:... the only thing these suits are gonna pick up are mediums and heavys, scouts will continue to require other scouts and focused scanners to see.
That's the big problem. Scout vs scout. A precision tanked scout will now have 25% of the area coverage (at the modified 40db level) that they once had. This is bad for shotty hunters, but good for scout slayers.
ISK Trader
channel: blitz
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Fizzer XCIV
Heaven's Lost Property
Negative-Feedback
1311
|
Posted - 2014.12.07 20:39:00 -
[50] - Quote
Good. I'm glad scouts are losing their monopoly on Ewar.
Please, make my Opus pretty...
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One Eyed King
Land of the BIind
6419
|
Posted - 2014.12.07 20:46:00 -
[51] - Quote
Fizzer XCIV wrote:Good. I'm glad scouts are losing their monopoly on Ewar.
That is like giving scouts heavy weapons to take away Sentinels monopoly on the HMG.
EWAR is what made scouts scouts.
What reason will there to run them now?
Thunderbolt. verb and noun.
"James thunderbolted in his pants."
"I lit a bag of thunderbolt on fire on CCP's doorway"
|
Fizzer XCIV
Heaven's Lost Property
Negative-Feedback
1312
|
Posted - 2014.12.07 20:51:00 -
[52] - Quote
One Eyed King wrote:Fizzer XCIV wrote:Good. I'm glad scouts are losing their monopoly on Ewar. That is like giving scouts heavy weapons to take away Sentinels monopoly on the HMG. EWAR is what made scouts scouts. What reason will there to run them now?
There is a difference between being the best at something...
and being the only class able to effectively do something, and be by far the best, without even fitting your suit do do that thing.
Scouts will still have the best overall Ewar, but Ewar won't be practically exclusive to them anymore.
Please, make my Opus pretty...
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Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
5387
|
Posted - 2014.12.07 21:16:00 -
[53] - Quote
One Eyed King wrote:Fizzer XCIV wrote:Good. I'm glad scouts are losing their monopoly on Ewar. That is like giving scouts heavy weapons to take away Sentinels monopoly on the HMG. EWAR is what made scouts scouts. What reason will there to run them now? The best walk/strafe and sprint speeds and stamina regeneration in the game? The only dropsuits with ewar command bonuses and bonuses to fitting cloaks. Innate hacking speed bonuses. Two equipment slots in case you don't want to use a cloak.
My advice to you, playa...
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Ares 514
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
1014
|
Posted - 2014.12.08 17:11:00 -
[54] - Quote
Ripley Riley wrote:Ares 514 wrote:Range Amplifiers are no longer worth using IMO, which is sad. For scouts, using a single range amp gets you close to pre-1.10 scan ranges. If that doesn't appeal to you, then don't fit them. Not sure what to tell you. I'll be running one or two on my Amarr scout. Count on it. I will need to experiment with both fittings to see which works best for me.
The problem is the extra 2.75m (or whatever it is) is not worth the CPU/PG/slot of the complex range amplifier. Debate about what specific numbers scouts/other suits should have all you want. The problem in my mind is they have destroyed the range amplifier's usability in any practical way when it was already rarely used relative to other modules (i.e. hp stacking).
Overlord of Broman
|
Clone D
Grundstein Automation
1035
|
Posted - 2014.12.10 13:01:00 -
[55] - Quote
Scout Vs Scout EWAR is no longer useful for survival.
Just use your eyes now.
ISK Trader
channel: blitz
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Bright Steel
Horizons' Edge
Proficiency V.
651
|
Posted - 2014.12.10 13:45:00 -
[56] - Quote
Change is inevitable, we must adapt and over come, I have always assumed scouts should be damped while logistics should scan. It spices things up, well to a new day
Dust 514, the BEST WORST game you can't stop playing.
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