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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
17966
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Posted - 2014.12.04 14:26:00 -
[1] - Quote
Those of you keeping up with me will know I been working on something massive.
Well here it is the first section is mostly done for the public which deals with the command tree.
If you have additional links and resources I can use please feel free to hit me up to get them included.
You can also freely comment to the side;
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Ixn2nw1gpSsqolfLcTus0jLTIsgZbED30Fx8-8-v80g/edit?usp=sharing
My goal is to get this hammered out as soon as possible now so all other projects are on hold.
Also Massive Read you have been warned.
CPM 1
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior
\\= Prototype Forge Gun=// Unlocked
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Spectral Clone
Abandoned Privilege Top Men.
3233
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Posted - 2014.12.04 14:30:00 -
[2] - Quote
I think you could incorporate the Titanfall model, where vehicles and AV are both readily available on the battlefield. Doing that will increase the immersion of this game by a factor of 42.
Edit: To do this merge dropsuit and vehicle trees. Why should there be different trees?
EVE: Legion, also known as: Schroedinger's Game, EVE: Limbo, or just "Not-a-game-yet".
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Apothecary Za'ki
Biomass Positive
2266
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Posted - 2014.12.04 14:39:00 -
[3] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Those of you keeping up with me will know I been working on something massive. Well here it is the first section is mostly done for the public which deals with the command tree. If you have additional links and resources I can use please feel free to hit me up to get them included. You can also freely comment to the side; https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Ixn2nw1gpSsqolfLcTus0jLTIsgZbED30Fx8-8-v80g/edit?usp=sharingMy goal is to get this hammered out as soon as possible now so all other projects are on hold. Also Massive Read you have been warned. allow us to do 0 point turns in HAVs.. im sick of waggleing back and forth with out even manageing to turn.. its cost me more then several HAVs in my time of Dusting.
#[[LogiBro ADV/PRO]] [[Level 2 Forum Warrior]] [[Level 2 Forum Pariah]]
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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
17966
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Posted - 2014.12.04 14:43:00 -
[4] - Quote
Spectral Clone wrote:I think you could incorporate the Titanfall model, where vehicles and AV are both readily available on the battlefield. Doing that will increase the immersion of this game by a factor of 42.
Edit: To do this merge dropsuit and vehicle trees. Why should there be different trees?
That discussion is later.
CPM 1
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior
\\= Prototype Forge Gun=// Unlocked
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Lazer Fo Cused
Shining Flame Amarr Empire
156
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Posted - 2014.12.04 14:54:00 -
[5] - Quote
Spectral Clone wrote:I think you could incorporate the Titanfall model, where vehicles and AV are both readily available on the battlefield. Doing that will increase the immersion of this game by a factor of 42.
Edit: To do this merge dropsuit and vehicle trees. Why should there be different trees?
1. Boring
2. Go and play BF instead |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
17966
|
Posted - 2014.12.04 15:03:00 -
[6] - Quote
Lazer Fo Cused wrote:Spectral Clone wrote:I think you could incorporate the Titanfall model, where vehicles and AV are both readily available on the battlefield. Doing that will increase the immersion of this game by a factor of 42.
Edit: To do this merge dropsuit and vehicle trees. Why should there be different trees? 1. Boring 2. Go and play BF instead
When they stop allowing a smoke grenade launcher from killing an abrams.
CPM 1
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior
\\= Prototype Forge Gun=// Unlocked
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Tesfa Alem
Death by Disassociation
495
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Posted - 2014.12.04 16:03:00 -
[7] - Quote
For those with a the lack of will to go through the entire thing, its a 39 page document that reads more like a game design thesis or an interns job proposal.
Just to get this out of the way a Soma is a Militia tank and is not unlocked with HAV operation, Madrugar is the one your looking for. The same with the dropships, Vipers are militia and Myron are standard. Balochs are milita LAVs (and were called baloch impact when evry player had unlimited free LAVs) and the Methana is the Standard gallente LAV.
It doesn't matter when a random forum poster or blueberry doesn't know whats what, but when a CPM, especially when one self appoints himself as the 'voice of vehicle operators' doesn't the Viper is a miltia dropship, ugh, it doesn't bode well.
But seeing as you put the time to types i put in the time to read it. Or more less glanced through, too much pork between the charts. 39 pages on one person's opinions on moslty just modifying the various vehicle skill trees, jesus. And the skill tree part isnt finished yet, its to be continued. It just cuts out at page 36, the remaining three pages are headlines for other chatpers and topics.
Pretty much the bottom of the pile of pilot / tanker priorities at the moment. Oddly It all devolves into the old skill tree before 1.7 dropped. Mostly because reasons. ''I like this way'' or ''i prefer it that way''
How long will this document be in its final form? I have no idea.
So far, its much ado about nothing.
Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
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Ghost Kaisar
Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance
8510
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Posted - 2014.12.04 16:06:00 -
[8] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Lazer Fo Cused wrote:Spectral Clone wrote:I think you could incorporate the Titanfall model, where vehicles and AV are both readily available on the battlefield. Doing that will increase the immersion of this game by a factor of 42.
Edit: To do this merge dropsuit and vehicle trees. Why should there be different trees? 1. Boring 2. Go and play BF instead When they stop allowing a smoke grenade launcher from killing an abrams.
C4 Trolling will NEVER get old.
So simple too (In BF3 at least)
Get Buggy. Get in driver seat
Friend slaps C4 on the front, sits in side seat with smoke launcher aimed at explosives.
Find tank
Ram Tank
Friend shoots C4 with Smoke launcher
Explosion
Smoke Launcher kills tank
Jeep Driver laughs and drives off into the sunset.
Bullet Hell and Duct-Tape? Count me in!
FA recruits get free officer BPO's. Enlist today. Must be a scrub to enter.
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WARxion ForDUST
G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance
156
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Posted - 2014.12.04 16:10:00 -
[9] - Quote
Lazer Fo Cused wrote:Spectral Clone wrote:I think you could incorporate the Titanfall model, where vehicles and AV are both readily available on the battlefield. Doing that will increase the immersion of this game by a factor of 42.
Edit: To do this merge dropsuit and vehicle trees. Why should there be different trees? 1. Boring 2. Go and play BF instead
True, we are mercenaries with our own stuff. You want something on the battlefield, pay for it. The "look we just came here but someone placed free vehicles all over the place" won't increase the immersion at all.
The deployment through RDV is one of the best features of DUST. Yes, sometimes those pilots are stupid but still, it looks good.
Yes, I'm that desperate...
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Sev Alcatraz
703
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Posted - 2014.12.04 16:23:00 -
[10] - Quote
Unless You plan on buffing HAVSs your just looking to kill the vehicle game, as t is now I have 10 mill sp in vehicles, my best gunlogi can be taken down by a chump in a jeep or by 2 guys with adv swarms.
You barly play dust jackass you have just over 7000 kills and I doubt you have ever used a vehicle extensively don't try and fix what you don't understand.
Disgruntled vet
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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
17969
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Posted - 2014.12.04 16:23:00 -
[11] - Quote
Tesfa Alem wrote:For those with a the lack of will to go through the entire thing, its a 39 page document that reads more like a game design thesis or an interns job proposal.
Just to get this out of the way a Soma is a Militia tank and is not unlocked with HAV operation, Madrugar is the one your looking for. The same with the dropships, Vipers are militia and Myron are standard. Balochs are milita LAVs (and were called baloch impact when evry player had unlimited free LAVs) and the Methana is the Standard gallente LAV.
It doesn't matter when a random forum poster or blueberry doesn't know whats what, but when a CPM, especially when one self appoints himself as the 'voice of vehicle operators' doesn't the Viper is a miltia dropship, ugh, it doesn't bode well.
But seeing as you put the time to types i put in the time to read it. Or more less glanced through, too much pork between the charts. 39 pages on one person's opinions on moslty just modifying the various vehicle skill trees, jesus. And the skill tree part isnt finished yet, its to be continued. It just cuts out at page 36, the remaining three pages are headlines for other chatpers and topics.
Pretty much the bottom of the pile of pilot / tanker priorities at the moment. Oddly It all devolves into the old skill tree before 1.7 dropped. Mostly because reasons. ''I like this way'' or ''i prefer it that way''
How long will this document be in its final form? I have no idea.
So far, its much ado about nothing.
Sorry about that militia vs military mix up; still have lots on my mind and lots of planning to do out.
CPM 1
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior
\\= Prototype Forge Gun=// Unlocked
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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
17969
|
Posted - 2014.12.04 17:10:00 -
[12] - Quote
Sev Alcatraz wrote:Unless You plan on buffing HAVSs your just looking to kill the vehicle game, as t is now I have 10 mill sp in vehicles, my best gunlogi can be taken down by a chump in a jeep or by 2 guys with adv swarms.
You barly play dust jackass you have just over 7000 kills and I doubt you have ever used a vehicle extensively don't try and fix what you don't understand.
And?
You're here encouraging another nerf via inaction.
CPM 1
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior
\\= Prototype Forge Gun=// Unlocked
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Derrith Erador
Fatal Absolution
3120
|
Posted - 2014.12.04 17:55:00 -
[13] - Quote
Well, I like the spreadsheet, but I'd like to point out a few things that vehicles should have.
I'll start off with tanks, be forewarned, this will be long.
Tanks: As it stands, tanks are a pure AV role. Which in all honesty, should not be the case. In PC, tanks are of little use and an ADS could easily do what they do in the way of AI. That being said, I believe that reintroducing enforcer and Marauder tanks would be a good way to balance this out.
Enforcers
My thought is this, enforcer tanks are the AI variants of tanks. They would have less EHP, a little more speed, and benefits to large turrets to help them assault infantry.
Example: blasters would get lowered dispersion on the Vayu, allowing them to fight infantry more effectively, and make them viable on open maps. Missiles would get more splash so they can catch infantry on them.
As it stands currently, tanks don't have much else to do but fight themselves, shoot ADS and become giant roadblocks. Introduction of an AI tank will add more of a robust vehicle world.
Marauders
My next thought is that marauders should be the AV tanks. They'd have more HP, maybe a little less speed, and benefits that would make them AV titans.
Blasters would get something like increased ROF and lowered heat build up, helping them to tear into a shields hull for faster and longer.
Missiles would get a damage buff and increased total magazine size.
Rails would get reduced heat build up and better cooldown.
That's just my two cents on the issue. Tanks need to have an AI version, along with an AV version.
Now on to my favoritest thing evar!! Dropships.
We all want our Logi Derp back. But there has been some debate as to what their benefit should be.
I read somewhere that it should be a lowered spawn time on a mobile CRU. I personally like this idea for both Derps, but the problem with that is there is no real benefit to run one or the other. There should be another benefit along with the CRU spawn time.
Question for fellow pilots, we all know that adding resistances per level is a bad idea. Would the racial regen being buffed be better?
Example: Shield boosters on LDS would recharge 25% more than on an ADS or normal DS.
Another thing that should be looked into is CPU and PG outfits.
Armor has always had trouble fitting things CPU wise, I think a buff on armor vehicle CPU has been a long time coming.
I'd also like to recommend reducing the Python CPU by 7-9%. The reason I say this is because as far as ADS goes, I don't have to skill too heavy into shield fitting OP. This CPU nerf would make it to where getting the extra levels well worth it.
I'd also recommend giving a python PG buff. WARNING: do not buff any more than 59, there will be a definite OP ADS fit. and also none less than 34, any less will be useless.
Anyway, that's my ideas. Hope it helps.
God and Empress kill me, I'm a level three forum warrior.
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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
17970
|
Posted - 2014.12.04 18:02:00 -
[14] - Quote
Derrith Erador wrote:Well, I like the spreadsheet, but I'd like to point out a few things that vehicles should have.
I'll start off with tanks, be forewarned, this will be long.
Tanks: As it stands, tanks are a pure AV role. Which in all honesty, should not be the case. In PC, tanks are of little use and an ADS could easily do what they do in the way of AI. That being said, I believe that reintroducing enforcer and Marauder tanks would be a good way to balance this out.
Enforcers
My thought is this, enforcer tanks are the AI variants of tanks. They would have less EHP, a little more speed, and benefits to large turrets to help them assault infantry.
Example: blasters would get lowered dispersion on the Vayu, allowing them to fight infantry more effectively, and make them viable on open maps. Missiles would get more splash so they can catch infantry on them.
As it stands currently, tanks don't have much else to do but fight themselves, shoot ADS and become giant roadblocks. Introduction of an AI tank will add more of a robust vehicle world.
Marauders
My next thought is that marauders should be the AV tanks. They'd have more HP, maybe a little less speed, and benefits that would make them AV titans.
Blasters would get something like increased ROF and lowered heat build up, helping them to tear into a shields hull for faster and longer.
Missiles would get a damage buff and increased total magazine size.
Rails would get reduced heat build up and better cooldown.
That's just my two cents on the issue. Tanks need to have an AI version, along with an AV version.
Now on to my favoritest thing evar!! Dropships.
We all want our Logi Derp back. But there has been some debate as to what their benefit should be.
I read somewhere that it should be a lowered spawn time on a mobile CRU. I personally like this idea for both Derps, but the problem with that is there is no real benefit to run one or the other. There should be another benefit along with the CRU spawn time.
Question for fellow pilots, we all know that adding resistances per level is a bad idea. Would the racial regen being buffed be better?
Example: Shield boosters on LDS would recharge 25% more than on an ADS or normal DS.
Another thing that should be looked into is CPU and PG outfits.
Armor has always had trouble fitting things CPU wise, I think a buff on armor vehicle CPU has been a long time coming.
I'd also like to recommend reducing the Python CPU by 7-9%. The reason I say this is because as far as ADS goes, I don't have to skill too heavy into shield fitting OP. This CPU nerf would make it to where getting the extra levels well worth it.
I'd also recommend giving a python PG buff. WARNING: do not buff any more than 59, there will be a definite OP ADS fit. and also none less than 34, any less will be useless.
Anyway, that's my ideas. Hope it helps.
TY along with my previous polling thread Ill take everything into consideration and get it out.
I am about a 10th of the way done I have to populate the subjects still and still give outlines to everything and do my first 'content' pass.
CPM 1
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior
\\= Prototype Forge Gun=// Unlocked
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Derrith Erador
Fatal Absolution
3120
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Posted - 2014.12.04 18:07:00 -
[15] - Quote
Whoops, I forgot to talk about small turrets. Silly me!
Blasters: The problem is the fact that these do not have enough range, and the dispersion is crap. My recommendation is that you buff the range to about 50 meters, and either lowering dispersion or reversing the effect (like the HMG right now)
Missiles: I hear that Rat is considering making an AV and AI variant to missiles. If you do, I recommend keeping this current turret as the AI variant. Every PROPER fitted tank I've shot at with this turret gets away before I can blow it up.
Rails: I'll admit, this is a problem with all rail weaponry period, but there are times when I'm shooting the rail, and nothing comes up. After I stop firing, my clip starts draining away. Really irritating to any incubus pilot trying to dogfight.
Another issue is the effectiveness they have compared to blasters to door gunning. The solution to this is to add a "shaking effect" to side rail guns. Not too much that they can't even hit LAVs, but enough to where sniping infantry isn't a feasible option.
God and Empress kill me, I'm a level three forum warrior.
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Booby Tuesdays
Tuesdays With Boobies
1038
|
Posted - 2014.12.04 18:29:00 -
[16] - Quote
I still blame Wolfman.
Half-Assed Forum Warrior / Half-Decent Commando / Damn Good Logi
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Tesfa Alem
Death by Disassociation
495
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Posted - 2014.12.04 18:44:00 -
[17] - Quote
Derrith Erador wrote: We all want our Logi Derp back. But there has been some debate as to what their benefit should be.
I read somewhere that it should be a lowered spawn time on a mobile CRU. I personally like this idea for both Derps, but the problem with that is there is no real benefit to run one or the other. There should be another benefit along with the CRU spawn time.
Question for fellow pilots, we all know that adding resistances per level is a bad idea. Would the racial regen being buffed be better?
Example: Shield boosters on LDS would recharge 25% more than on an ADS or normal DS.
Another thing that should be looked into is CPU and PG outfits.
Armor has always had trouble fitting things CPU wise, I think a buff on armor vehicle CPU has been a long time coming.
I'd also like to recommend reducing the Python CPU by 7-9%. The reason I say this is because as far as ADS goes, I don't have to skill too heavy into shield fitting OP. This CPU nerf would make it to where getting the extra levels well worth it.
I'd also recommend giving a python PG buff. WARNING: do not buff any more than 59, there will be a definite OP ADS fit. and also none less than 34, any less will be useless.
Anyway, that's my ideas. Hope it helps.
On the logi DS, i'd have to wait and see in what state it will be returned to us. Regen would have to be high enough to help vs AV infantry and yet still be succeptible in Air to Air.
On the python, i don't see the need to hurt its CPU, but it definitley needs the PG buff. The only reason why it seems to have so much CPU is becase its only low slot is taken up by a complex PG upgrade. If it had enough PG to fit a low slot item such as an armor rep or plate, that CPU would get eaten up drastically.
Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
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Xocoyol Zaraoul
Superior Genetics
2842
|
Posted - 2014.12.04 19:00:00 -
[18] - Quote
Level II of LAV is technically useful, as it unlocks the SAGA II
"You see those red dots over there?
Go and shoot them until you see a +50 on the screen" - Arkena Wyrnspire
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Ryme Intrinseca
Dead Man's Game RUST415
2179
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Posted - 2014.12.04 19:03:00 -
[19] - Quote
tl;dr
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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
17971
|
Posted - 2014.12.04 19:10:00 -
[20] - Quote
Xocoyol Zaraoul wrote:Level II of LAV is technically useful, as it unlocks the SAGA II
SAGA II is still a Saaga I prefitted; I rather see the saga II be an altnerative to the Saga one in shield slot layout. Oerall I think vehicles can use a slot buff.
Going to take a nap now the allergies are overpowering my ability to tank them; my sensors been jammed and cant get far whil eblind.
CPM 1
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior
\\= Prototype Forge Gun=// Unlocked
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Greiv Rabbah
13Art of War13
35
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Posted - 2014.12.05 08:19:00 -
[21] - Quote
Its late and I'm tired but I want to throw in a "don't forget about MTACs" before I crash. Will try to post something more coherent and useful tomorrow |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
17975
|
Posted - 2014.12.05 12:42:00 -
[22] - Quote
Greiv Rabbah wrote:Its late and I'm tired but I want to throw in a "don't forget about MTACs" before I crash. Will try to post something more coherent and useful tomorrow
mTACs are being thrown in as examples of stuff in the future content and is purely subject as placeholders for now.
CPM 1
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior
\\= Prototype Forge Gun=// Unlocked
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
5642
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Posted - 2014.12.05 13:00:00 -
[23] - Quote
Because I'm at work and don't have the time to read 39 pages... Does the document cover expected AV/V interactions, statement of intent on how they are supposed to interact, etc?
This is a major concern because the lack of different AV types creates massive problems.
Further the fact that all of the vehicles are balanced against PRO AV even at the MLT level with the sica/soma this creates a few issues in the back and forth balance.
Currently the madrugar and Soma are UP solely because the gunnlogi/sica handily resist the two AV weapons that can reliably slam vehicles of all types.
I would like to know how this is addressed.
Requiring that maddys die in 3-4 shots from an AFG is fine, but when the gunnlogi can take anywhere up to 9 shots to stop ( you cannot depend on weakspot being readily attackable) there is a major issue because there is no weapon that can similarly bring the gunnlogi TTK down to maddy levels.
Because this has not been addressed there will always be a clear superiority in either armor or shields based on the nerf/buff cycle.
Further all vehicles being balanced to weather proto gunfire means there is little point in fielding lesser options as they will not affect the course of battle in any meaningful fashion.
How does this vehicle proposal address these problems?
And further I think marauders should be the terroristic tanks and the enforcers the AV platforms. But that's just me.
Enforcers should be glass cannon. Marauders less blasty but with a bit more defense value due to being focused on by infantry AV
EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
5642
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Posted - 2014.12.05 13:02:00 -
[24] - Quote
Sev Alcatraz wrote:Unless You plan on buffing HAVSs your just looking to kill the vehicle game, as t is now I have 10 mill sp in vehicles, my best gunlogi can be taken down by a chump in a jeep or by 2 guys with adv swarms.
You barly play dust jackass you have just over 7000 kills and I doubt you have ever used a vehicle extensively don't try and fix what you don't understand.
Oh look, someone who cannot tell the difference between main play character and 514umwar character.
Grow up.
EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
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CommanderBolt
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
2655
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Posted - 2014.12.05 15:43:00 -
[25] - Quote
IWS I appreciate the effort mate but a much shorter more concise piece would be of higher value I feel.
I tried to read as much as I could but it did seem to drag on a bit man.
"Also I think knives are a good idea, big f**k-off shiny ones"
"Guns for show, Knives for a pro"
MY LIFE FOR AIUR!
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Lazer Fo Cused
Shining Flame Amarr Empire
163
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Posted - 2014.12.05 15:55:00 -
[26] - Quote
1. Far too long
2. Too much waffle
3. Stick the facts/ideas with possible outcomes |
Spkr4theDead
Red Star. EoN.
2433
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Posted - 2014.12.05 16:31:00 -
[27] - Quote
Spectral Clone wrote:I think you could incorporate the Titanfall model, where vehicles and AV are both readily available on the battlefield. Doing that will increase the immersion of this game by a factor of 42.
Edit: To do this merge dropsuit and vehicle trees. Why should there be different trees? CCP shouldn't incorporate anything that they're doing. Let CCP make their own road.
I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star. EoN.
2433
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Posted - 2014.12.05 16:57:00 -
[28] - Quote
I'm only a few pages down and the amount of grammatical errors is astounding. I'm having trouble reading it because it wasn't proofread before being posted. I'll probably make a few 6000-word replies copying and pasting stuff here with my thoughts on it.
I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
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TechMechMeds
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
6331
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Posted - 2014.12.05 17:23:00 -
[29] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Lazer Fo Cused wrote:Spectral Clone wrote:I think you could incorporate the Titanfall model, where vehicles and AV are both readily available on the battlefield. Doing that will increase the immersion of this game by a factor of 42.
Edit: To do this merge dropsuit and vehicle trees. Why should there be different trees? 1. Boring 2. Go and play BF instead When they stop allowing a smoke grenade launcher from killing an abrams.
Hahahaha.
Madbcuzbad!.
I am GJRs Renfield.
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Her Chosen
Grade No.2
102
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Posted - 2014.12.05 17:35:00 -
[30] - Quote
The HAV hardener bonus for the HAV operation skill, should be 2%, not 5%. A possible 50% of hardener duration is to long a window for a tank to be agro |
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