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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2951	Posted - 2014.11.30 02:56:00 - [1] - Quote Make a light suit thats designed for slaying. Good players flock to high mobility suits, which is why the scout generates so many tears. If you want to make a slayer suit that good players will use, make something that is fast, agile, regenerative, and small. Seriously. "Minja" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ I piss Remote Explosives and shit Shotgun shells.
Atiim Titans of Phoenix 14024	Posted - 2014.11.30 03:00:00 - [2] - Quote Or we could make the class that's supposed to be better for all around slaying actually better for all around slaying. The 1st Matari Commando -HAND
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2951	Posted - 2014.11.30 03:06:00 - [3] - Quote Atiim wrote: Or we could make the class that's supposed to be better for all around slaying actually better for all around slaying. If you're referring to the assault class, it already is. I personally use my assault more than my scout or heavy, simply because it is a BETTER slayer. All the assault needs is slightly more scan range, and more regen as well, and it will be superior in every single way to the scout, in terms of slaying. The only thing the scout is useful for is finding points of heavy spam, and avoiding them. The assault can't because its scan range sucks. "Minja" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ I piss Remote Explosives and shit Shotgun shells.
gustavo acosta Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 538	Posted - 2014.11.30 03:11:00 - [4] - Quote >implying "good player" flocked to the scout suit because of its mobility and not its crazy good base stats and invisibility... GimmeDatSuhWeet isk
Eruditus 920 Nemo Malus Felix 920	Posted - 2014.11.30 03:12:00 - [5] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Make a light suit thats designed for slaying. Good players flock to high mobility suits, which is why the scout generates so many tears. If you want to make a slayer suit that good players will use, make something that is fast, agile, regenerative, and small. Seriously. I would love to see another light suit since the "pilot" place holder just gets moldy sitting there. Players want to kill. It's a FPS after all. There are 2 heavy suits, 2 medium, and 1 light. That's right, isn't it? But the only way it would be well received by this whiney, entitled, short sighted player base is if it sucked at killing. 'Cause if it was any good at slaying, can you imagine the va gina tears? "Stay gold, Ponyboy..."
Lynn Beck Delta Vanguard 6 2308	Posted - 2014.11.30 03:12:00 - [6] - Quote Scout has better Shield Regen, as well as identical initial DPS, meaning ACR, SCR, and Shotgun are all perfect with the suit, because you can unload a clip, then use your scoutly abilities to hide between reloads/cooldowns, thus making it the ultimate assault suit, as it has: Better Regen Better DPS application(You can't be caught with your pants down if you're omniscient) Similar HP values(your 25% less HP also comes with a 25% smaller hitbox, so HP is null, even moreso your EWAR allowing you to see every Med/Heavy within 22 meters.) IMO the only thing we need to do is switch Assault and Scout's shield regen numbers. That alone would make Caldari scouts need a shield recharger when tanking, compared to the "I have 450 shield at a 2/4 delay timer that all recharges at 50/s :D" meanwhile assaults have maybe 400 shield, and if they manage to pull off 2/4 delays, there's still the problem of profile, blindness, and the lack of 50/s on recharge. Scouts(Caldari in particular) are just better skinny assaults. If this "nerf" still manages to not pull scoutslayers away, Then take away a weapon slot, and make a variant with the 2 possible setups: Sidearm X 2, or LW X 1. This lets Assassin Minjas have their NK/SMG, or just a CR, also lets Gal scouts have Ion Pistol/Whatever, or Shotgun. That also, coincidentally, adds a - mark to running SG scout, as you literally only have that weapon. General John Ripper -BAM! I'm Emeril Lagasse. This message was approved by the 'Nobody Loved You' Foundation'
Luk Manag of Terror TRE GAFFEL 607	Posted - 2014.11.30 03:23:00 - [7] - Quote The assault class is pretty good these days, but the weapons should have some additional advantage. A Scrambler Scout is almost as effective as the Amarr Assault. The current bonus allows higher sustained DPS, but I want something more. I would like to see a rate-of-fire bonus for the Assault class, primary and sidearm. 1% per level. There will be bullets. ACR+SMG [CEO of Terror]
Joel II X Bacon with a bottle of Quafe 4849	Posted - 2014.11.30 03:35:00 - [8] - Quote Commandos are currently more of a support class at the moment.
Eruditus 920 Nemo Malus Felix 920	Posted - 2014.11.30 03:40:00 - [9] - Quote Joel II X wrote: Commandos are currently more of a support class at the moment. I have only dabbled with some Neo commandos in the past. I don't run it. What is it that prevents the commando from being better than I hear? With two light weapons it should be a versatile killing monster. Is it too slow? Or does it just need that sweet clean HMG? I'm seriously curious about this though. "Stay gold, Ponyboy..."
Spartykins Militaires Sans Jeux 85	Posted - 2014.11.30 03:45:00 - [10] - Quote Lynn Beck wrote: \IMO the only thing we need to do is switch Assault and Scout's shield regen numbers. How exactly does this help anything when the most common Scout is Gallente? (Insert witty phrase here)

Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2953	Posted - 2014.11.30 03:47:00 - [11] - Quote Lynn Beck wrote: Scout has better Shield Regen Yes, this is true. Assaults should get a regen buff. I have been arguing that for a while. However, in a 1v1, the assault is always better. as well as identical initial DPS You have 2 additional module slots on an assault, as well as well over double the HP. You can spare at least one slot for a damage mod on an assault, whereas a scout needs all slots for eWAR or biotics or HP meaning ACR, SCR, and Shotgun are all perfect with the suit, because you can unload a clip, then use your scoutly abilities to hide between reloads/cooldowns, thus making it the ultimate assault suit, as it has: These weapons (excluding shotgun), are better used on their racial assault. ACR has an 85 round clip (WOW), and the ScR can fire a fully charged shot, followed by almost a full volley, or just a ridiculous number of shots that a scout couldn't match. These weapons (again, excluding the SG) are much, much, MUCH better used on the assault. Better Regen True. Assaults shouldn't necessarily have better regen than scouts, but they should at least have better regen than what they have now, which is pitiful (excluding the Gal assault, which has VERY nice base HP/S) Better DPS application(You can't be caught with your pants down if you're omniscient) Scouts are far from omniscient. To be "omniscient, the scout has to sacrifice several slots to scan the assault, and can't use the cloak. The assault can put a single dampener on, and remain unscannable by any Min or Cal scout who doesn't use a precision enhancer. Two dampeners, and you start dodging precision scans. You also won't ever get caught with your pants down if you're paying attention. Listen to your surroundings, and try to avoid sentinels Similar HP values(your 25% less HP also comes with a 25% smaller hitbox, so HP is null, even moreso your EWAR allowing you to see every Med/Heavy within 22 meters.) Fabricated numbers are blatantly and disgustingly fabricated. Assaults have over twice the base HP of a scout, and there is literally about a 10% size difference, AT MOST between the hitboxes. Im questioning if you have ever played the game right now IMO the only thing we need to do is switch Assault and Scout's shield regen numbers. Shield regen for all suits SUCKS. Nerfing scout regen is not only a bad idea, but is just a butthurt attack at people who are better than you at this game. Assaults, again, need a shield regen buff. Perhaps a slight armor one as well. That alone would make Caldari scouts need a shield recharger when tanking, compared to the "I have 450 shield at a 2/4 delay timer that all recharges at 50/s :D" meanwhile assaults have maybe 400 shield, and if they manage to pull off 2/4 delays, there's still the problem of profile, blindness, and the lack of 50/s on recharge. The only assault I have seen at 400 shield is an apex minmitar one. Which has, IIRC, very close to a 50 hp/s recharge rate. Also, having 450 shield will put you at a 2/6ish delay timer. Just to clarify. Profile-just put a dampener or two on. Easy. Blindness: All assaults need a scan range buff (all suits need a slight scan range buff), but they should only be able to see commandos and sentinels. If a scout sneaks up on you, he deserves to win, but even then, you have enough HP to survive anything he throws at you, and can take out his paltry HP pool with ease. Scouts(Caldari in particular) are just better skinny assaults. If this "nerf" still manages to not pull scouts layers away Good players will flock to high mobility, harder to detect suits. Thats how the game works. There will always be OP scout slayers, no matter what you do. If thats what you want to get rid of, Id suggest you file a ticket to CCP asking for people like Marauder, Frost Kitty, TTW3x, etc. to always show up on radar, have half their HP, and double aim assists effects on them, if they use a scout suit. Thats the only thing that'll pull them out of it. Scouts should be slayers in their own niche, just like commandos and even Sentinels should be slayers in their own niche. Trying to stop that is stupid, useless, and a last-ditch effort by a completely butthurt fool Then take away a weapon slot, and make a variant with the 2 possible setups: Sidearm X 2, or LW X 1. This lets Assassin Minjas have their NK/SMG, or just a CR, also lets Gal scouts have Ion Pistol/Whatever, or Shotgun. Sure, and lets also take away Sentinels heavy weapon slot, Assaults Light weapon slot, and make the commando Dual wield sidearms! Your suggestion is ridiculous, provides no balance, and is overall just bad. It castrates far too many play styles simply for you to be invulnerable to shotgunners just by bunny hopping away, because they now have no weapon that can hit past 5 meters. Its poorly concealed political nerfs at their finest. That also, coincidentally, adds a - mark to running SG scout, as you literally only have that weapon. Read the above response.^^ The stupid, it hurts. Responses in bold. "Minja" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ I piss Remote Explosives and shit Shotgun shells.
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2953	Posted - 2014.11.30 03:48:00 - [12] - Quote Joel II X wrote: Commandos are currently more of a support class at the moment. I consider it to be the AV class--can have AV weapon and anti-infantry weapon as well "Minja" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ I piss Remote Explosives and shit Shotgun shells.
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2953	Posted - 2014.11.30 03:56:00 - [13] - Quote gustavo acosta wrote: >implying "good player" flocked to the scout suit because of its mobility and not its crazy good base stats and invisibility... Once it became non-perms scannable, its mobility caused it to be something that good players flocked to. "Minja" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ I piss Remote Explosives and shit Shotgun shells.
gustavo acosta Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 539	Posted - 2014.11.30 03:57:00 - [14] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Shield regen for all suits SUCKS. Nerfing scout regen is not only a bad idea, but is just a butthurt attack at people who are better than you at this game. Assaults, again, need a shield regen buff. Perhaps a slight armor one as well. That alone would make Caldari scouts need a shield recharger when tanking, compared to the "I have 450 shield at a 2/4 delay timer that all recharges at 50/s :D" meanwhile assaults have maybe 400 shield, and if they manage to pull off 2/4 delays, there's still the problem of profile, blindness, and the lack of 50/s on recharge. The only assault I have seen at 400 shield is an apex minmitar one. Which has, IIRC, very close to a 50 hp/s recharge rate. Also, having 450 shield will put you at a 2/6ish delay timer. Just to clarify. Profile-just put a dampener or two on. Easy. Blindness: All assaults need a scan range buff (all suits need a slight scan range buff), but they should only be able to see commandos and sentinels. If a scout sneaks up on you, he deserves to win, but even then, you have enough HP to survive anything he throws at you, and can take out his paltry HP pool with ease. How is saying an inflated number that encourages a play style that isn't intended for the scout to play butthurt? And yes caldari scouts can have up to 400 shields tanked atim showed some crazy slayer scouts some forum posts ago. Scanning isn't the issue it's the fact that my gallente scout can be an assault slayer with not detriment to itself because of it's base stats. Good thing the skill bonuses are being changed to accommodate it so that scouts HAVE to add E-war to get any benefit from it. GimmeDatSuhWeet isk
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2953	Posted - 2014.11.30 03:59:00 - [15] - Quote gustavo acosta wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Shield regen for all suits SUCKS. Nerfing scout regen is not only a bad idea, but is just a butthurt attack at people who are better than you at this game. Assaults, again, need a shield regen buff. Perhaps a slight armor one as well. That alone would make Caldari scouts need a shield recharger when tanking, compared to the "I have 450 shield at a 2/4 delay timer that all recharges at 50/s :D" meanwhile assaults have maybe 400 shield, and if they manage to pull off 2/4 delays, there's still the problem of profile, blindness, and the lack of 50/s on recharge. The only assault I have seen at 400 shield is an apex minmitar one. Which has, IIRC, very close to a 50 hp/s recharge rate. Also, having 450 shield will put you at a 2/6ish delay timer. Just to clarify. Profile-just put a dampener or two on. Easy. Blindness: All assaults need a scan range buff (all suits need a slight scan range buff), but they should only be able to see commandos and sentinels. If a scout sneaks up on you, he deserves to win, but even then, you have enough HP to survive anything he throws at you, and can take out his paltry HP pool with ease. How is saying an inflated number that encourages a play style that isn't intended for the scout to play butthurt? And yes caldari scouts can have up to 400 shields tanked atim showed some crazy slayer scouts some forum posts ago. Scanning isn't the issue it's the fact that my gallente scout can be an assault slayer with not detriment to itself because of it's base stats. Good thing the skill bonuses are being changed to accommodate it so that scouts HAVE to add E-war to get any benefit from it. And an assault will be better than it, in every single way, other than being a scout... "Minja" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ I piss Remote Explosives and shit Shotgun shells.
gustavo acosta Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 539	Posted - 2014.11.30 04:06:00 - [16] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: And an assault will be better than it, in every single way, other than being a scout... You say that, but can you give me evidence beyond your usual "oh i use my assault more than my scout therfore it's better" routine? Like numbers, facts and non-anecdotal examples... GimmeDatSuhWeet isk
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2953	Posted - 2014.11.30 04:16:00 - [17] - Quote gustavo acosta wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: And an assault will be better than it, in every single way, other than being a scout... You say that, but can you give me evidence beyond your usual "oh i use my assault more than my scout therfore it's better" routine? Like numbers, facts and non-anecdotal examples... Assault: HP: 800 Profile: 26 Speed: 9.3, IIRC CR that can easily kill any suit other than a tanked sentinel, dodges just about the same exact scans as the scout does, strafes at a negligibly slower speed, can survive all alpha weapons other than NK's on a min scout. Much better range and armor repair. Scout: HP: 400 Profile: 21 Speed: 10.31 Better scans, slightly better delays, worse regen rates. Hacks stuff fast. Dies to every alpha weapon in the game instantly. In a game based around HP differences, I see no reason why to run an assault over a scout, other than to hack things. "Minja" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ I piss Remote Explosives and shit Shotgun shells.
Lynn Beck Delta Vanguard 6 2309	Posted - 2014.11.30 04:18:00 - [18] - Quote Spartykins wrote: Lynn Beck wrote: \IMO the only thing we need to do is switch Assault and Scout's shield regen numbers. How exactly does this help anything when the most common Scout is Gallente? See second fix, introducing G-1 and G-2 suits. G-1 would have identical stats/fitting to G-2, but would have 2 sidearms instead of a single light. Now you can either run twin pistols, or knife/pistol, or SMG/pistol, OR you can run a single light weapon. To the snipers: You have super EWAR. Use it. To the shottyscouts: Good. You deserve to have a drawback nowadays. To the MassDriver scout: Well now you have to be just -that- insane. No more relying on your SMG as your primary, and using said MD as thine secondary. To those who want sidearms with their lights: Assault. It's there guys. General John Ripper -BAM! I'm Emeril Lagasse. This message was approved by the 'Nobody Loved You' Foundation'
Fizzer XCIV Heaven's Lost Property Negative-Feedback 1247	Posted - 2014.11.30 04:23:00 - [19] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: gustavo acosta wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: And an assault will be better than it, in every single way, other than being a scout... You say that, but can you give me evidence beyond your usual "oh i use my assault more than my scout therfore it's better" routine? Like numbers, facts and non-anecdotal examples... Assault: HP: 800 Profile: 26 Speed: 9.3, IIRC CR that can easily kill any suit other than a tanked sentinel, dodges just about the same exact scans as the scout does, strafes at a negligibly slower speed, can survive all alpha weapons other than NK's on a min scout. Much better range and armor repair. Scout: HP: 400 Profile: 21 Speed: 10.31 Better scans, slightly better delays, worse regen rates. Hacks stuff fast. Dies to every alpha weapon in the game instantly. In a game based around HP differences, I see no reason why to run an assault over a scout, other than to hack things. And, if that doesn't convince you: Im in FA. Im obviously a proto stomping scrub using the best FoTM gear of all, all the time because I'm a scrub. Therefore, if i have stopped running scout and now run assault, then that means it is an FoTM scrub suit. In addition, Ill give you my highest scores in ambush (purely slaying game mode, with scout and assault) Scout: 21-2 Assault: 30-0 In addition, most of the REALLY good PC slayers (Kallente, ReGnYuM, Skeletor Voltron, etc) all use assaults in PC now. Ive even started using my assault, whenever heavy spam is lacking. This only works for Caldari, and even then, the Scout has much better scanning and 2 equipment. Compare a Gallassault to a Galscout, or a Amassault to an Amscout, and the Scouts have much better all around Ewar, 2 equips, and a speed difference that actually plays a huge part. Please, make my Opus pretty...
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2953	Posted - 2014.11.30 04:26:00 - [20] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: gustavo acosta wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: And an assault will be better than it, in every single way, other than being a scout... You say that, but can you give me evidence beyond your usual "oh i use my assault more than my scout therfore it's better" routine? Like numbers, facts and non-anecdotal examples... Assault: HP: 800 Profile: 26 Speed: 9.3, IIRC CR that can easily kill any suit other than a tanked sentinel, dodges just about the same exact scans as the scout does, strafes at a negligibly slower speed, can survive all alpha weapons other than NK's on a min scout. Much better range and armor repair. Scout: HP: 400 Profile: 21 Speed: 10.31 Better scans, slightly better delays, worse regen rates. Hacks stuff fast. Dies to every alpha weapon in the game instantly. In a game based around HP differences, I see no reason why to run an assault over a scout, other than to hack things. And, if that doesn't convince you: Im in FA. Im obviously a proto stomping scrub using the best FoTM gear of all, all the time because I'm a scrub. Therefore, if i have stopped running scout and now run assault, then that means it is an FoTM scrub suit. In addition, Ill give you my highest scores in ambush (purely slaying game mode, with scout and assault) Scout: 21-2 Assault: 30-0 In addition, most of the REALLY good PC slayers (Kallente, ReGnYuM, Skeletor Voltron, etc) all use assaults in PC now. Ive even started using my assault, whenever heavy spam is lacking. This only works for Caldari, and even then, the Scout has much better scanning and 2 equipment. Scout scanning doesn't even matter with team shared active scanners and squad shared passives. Run one person as a Gallogi or an amarr scout with range amps, and you're golden. Also, the above compared min scout to assault. "Minja" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ I piss Remote Explosives and shit Shotgun shells.

gustavo acosta Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 542	Posted - 2014.11.30 04:31:00 - [21] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Assault: HP: 800 Profile: 26 Speed: 9.3, IIRC CR that can easily kill any suit other than a tanked sentinel, dodges just about the same exact scans as the scout does, strafes at a negligibly slower speed, can survive all alpha weapons other than NK's on a min scout. Much better range and armor repair. Scout: HP: 400 Profile: 21 Speed: 10.31 Better scans, slightly better delays, worse regen rates. Hacks stuff fast. Dies to every alpha weapon in the game instantly. In a game based around HP differences, I see no reason why to run an assault over a scout, other than to hack things. And, if that doesn't convince you: Im in FA. Im obviously a proto stomping scrub using the best FoTM gear of all, all the time because I'm a scrub. Therefore, if i have stopped running scout and now run assault, then that means it is an FoTM scrub suit. In addition, Ill give you my highest scores in ambush (purely slaying game mode, with scout and assault) Scout: 21-2 Assault: 30-0 In addition, most of the REALLY good PC slayers (Kallente, ReGnYuM, Skeletor Voltron, etc) all use assaults in PC now. Ive even started using my assault, whenever heavy spam is lacking. You know what this is relatively well put together, not the anecdotal bits about FA, PC slayers, and K/d but still. I guess it works when you're comparing the most balanced suit type in the game(relatively), however that isn't true for each race. Also it seems you left out quite a few values in your analysis.(balance is based off every aspect of a suit genius) GimmeDatSuhWeet isk
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2953	Posted - 2014.11.30 04:35:00 - [22] - Quote gustavo acosta wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Assault: HP: 800 Profile: 26 Speed: 9.3, IIRC CR that can easily kill any suit other than a tanked sentinel, dodges just about the same exact scans as the scout does, strafes at a negligibly slower speed, can survive all alpha weapons other than NK's on a min scout. Much better range and armor repair. Scout: HP: 400 Profile: 21 Speed: 10.31 Better scans, slightly better delays, worse regen rates. Hacks stuff fast. Dies to every alpha weapon in the game instantly. In a game based around HP differences, I see no reason why to run an assault over a scout, other than to hack things. And, if that doesn't convince you: Im in FA. Im obviously a proto stomping scrub using the best FoTM gear of all, all the time because I'm a scrub. Therefore, if i have stopped running scout and now run assault, then that means it is an FoTM scrub suit. In addition, Ill give you my highest scores in ambush (purely slaying game mode, with scout and assault) Scout: 21-2 Assault: 30-0 In addition, most of the REALLY good PC slayers (Kallente, ReGnYuM, Skeletor Voltron, etc) all use assaults in PC now. Ive even started using my assault, whenever heavy spam is lacking. You know what this is relatively well put together, not the anecdotal bits about FA, PC slayers, and K/d but still. I guess it works when you're comparing the most balanced suit type in the game(relatively), however that isn't true for each race. Also it seems you left out quite a few values in your analysis.(balance is based off every aspect of a suit genius) I only included the values that are important to slaying and helping the team. Unless, of course, you want to be a melee hero, in which case, you can either use the harder to use, but harder hitting assault, or the easy "invisible fist" melee scout. "Minja" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ I piss Remote Explosives and shit Shotgun shells.
gustavo acosta Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 542	Posted - 2014.11.30 04:37:00 - [23] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: gustavo acosta wrote: You know what this is relatively well put together, not the anecdotal bits about FA, PC slayers, and K/d but still. I guess it works when you're comparing the most balanced suit type in the game(relatively), however that isn't true for each race. Also it seems you left out quite a few values in your analysis.(balance is based off every aspect of a suit genius) I only included the values that are important to slaying and helping the team. Unless, of course, you want to be a melee hero, in which case, you can either use the harder to use, but harder hitting assault, or the easy "invisible fist" melee scout. Ya no, a slayer is affeceted by all the values that their suits have whether they know it or not... GimmeDatSuhWeet isk
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2953	Posted - 2014.11.30 04:40:00 - [24] - Quote gustavo acosta wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: gustavo acosta wrote: You know what this is relatively well put together, not the anecdotal bits about FA, PC slayers, and K/d but still. I guess it works when you're comparing the most balanced suit type in the game(relatively), however that isn't true for each race. Also it seems you left out quite a few values in your analysis.(balance is based off every aspect of a suit genius) I only included the values that are important to slaying and helping the team. Unless, of course, you want to be a melee hero, in which case, you can either use the harder to use, but harder hitting assault, or the easy "invisible fist" melee scout. Ya no, a slayer is affeceted by all the values that their suits have whether they know it or not... Name a value that i didn't list that helps a slayer with their slaying. I am being completely unbiased and brutally honest throughout this entire thread BTW. Im not intentionally trying to skew evidence to support my claims, or help myself in any way shape or form. "Minja" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ I piss Remote Explosives and shit Shotgun shells.
gustavo acosta Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 542	Posted - 2014.11.30 04:43:00 - [25] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: gustavo acosta wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: gustavo acosta wrote: You know what this is relatively well put together, not the anecdotal bits about FA, PC slayers, and K/d but still. I guess it works when you're comparing the most balanced suit type in the game(relatively), however that isn't true for each race. Also it seems you left out quite a few values in your analysis.(balance is based off every aspect of a suit genius) I only included the values that are important to slaying and helping the team. Unless, of course, you want to be a melee hero, in which case, you can either use the harder to use, but harder hitting assault, or the easy "invisible fist" melee scout. Ya no, a slayer is affeceted by all the values that their suits have whether they know it or not... Name a value that i didn't list that helps a slayer with their slaying. I am being completely unbiased and brutally honest throughout this entire thread BTW. Im not intentionally trying to skew evidence to support my claims, or help myself in any way shape or form. Repair rate, regen rate, recharge delay, equipment, stamina Without those a slayer can't run, rep, or eve think about their next engagement. GimmeDatSuhWeet isk
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2962	Posted - 2014.11.30 16:29:00 - [26] - Quote gustavo acosta wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: gustavo acosta wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: gustavo acosta wrote: You know what this is relatively well put together, not the anecdotal bits about FA, PC slayers, and K/d but still. I guess it works when you're comparing the most balanced suit type in the game(relatively), however that isn't true for each race. Also it seems you left out quite a few values in your analysis.(balance is based off every aspect of a suit genius) I only included the values that are important to slaying and helping the team. Unless, of course, you want to be a melee hero, in which case, you can either use the harder to use, but harder hitting assault, or the easy "invisible fist" melee scout. Ya no, a slayer is affeceted by all the values that their suits have whether they know it or not... Name a value that i didn't list that helps a slayer with their slaying. I am being completely unbiased and brutally honest throughout this entire thread BTW. Im not intentionally trying to skew evidence to support my claims, or help myself in any way shape or form. Repair rate, regen rate, recharge delay, equipment, stamina Without those a slayer can't run, rep, or even think about their next engagement. Assaults all have higher rep rate than their scout counter part. Regen rate and recharge delays are, again, something I want buffed for all assaults. Therefore, those points are moot. EQ doesn't really help the slayer role as much as the support role, unless you're talking about PC, where the primary weapon is the HMG, and the secondary, the remote explosive. If you have one EQ, you're self sufficient, as you can carry hives with you. Stamina should be worse on assaults than scouts, but the difference isn't even significant (at least on the minmitar). Again, if the stamina is a serious problem for other racial assaults, which i feel it is not, then it is a stat that could be buffed without over powering the assault. "Minja" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ I piss Remote Explosives and shit Shotgun shells.
Thumb Green Raymond James Corp 1875	Posted - 2014.11.30 19:11:00 - [27] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: The stupid, it hurts. Responses in bold. Says the guy that said Assaults are better slayers than Scouts. If that were the case then the good slayers you talked about in your first post wouldn't run Scout for slaying. Then you try to say you're unbiased, yeah anyone with half a braincell can see that isn't true. I mean hell, not only is your original post a "don't nerf me bro" but you also have the audacity to suggest making another light suit that's better at slaying in the same post. Just another bunch of dipshits.
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2963	Posted - 2014.11.30 19:46:00 - [28] - Quote Thumb Green wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: The stupid, it hurts. Responses in bold. Says the guy that said Assaults are better slayers than Scouts. If that were the case then the good slayers you talked about in your first post wouldn't run Scout for slaying. Then you try to say you're unbiased, yeah anyone with half a braincell can see that isn't true. I mean hell, not only is your original post a "don't nerf me bro" but you also have the audacity to suggest making another light suit that's better at slaying in the same post. They run scout because it is faster and more mobile. Good players use speed vs. HP. And several slayers are using assaults now, as it seems to be on the upward trend in PC's as well as pubs. I can't be biased: I have both a scout and assault at proto, each maxed. If the scout is nerfed, it only buffs my assault, and vice versa. I have no reason to say anything other than to promote game balance. My original post is saying, "You can't nerf me bro, no matter how hard you try." Theres a large difference. And yes, yes I do. The scout isn't as good as slaying as an assault. The people who use them are, in general, better at slaying than people who use assaults. All the scout QQ is ridiculous. All CCP has to do is make a suit that allows good players to fully use their skills. Right now, the scout is the closest thing to that for some people, as it isn't perma scanned, and moves faster than anything else in the game. Also, why didn't you respond to my actual post? Are my points too correct for you to try to debate? "Minja" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ I piss Remote Explosives and shit Shotgun shells.
Funkmaster Whale Whale Pod 2521	Posted - 2014.11.30 19:52:00 - [29] - Quote Until wallhacks are removed from this game, Scouts will always be favorable for slaying. Knowing where the enemy is through walls while simultaneously being invisible to them completely negates any HP differences. Anyone who says otherwise doesn't understand how FPS games work. Again, until such time that CCP removes the wallhacks, Scouts will remain the best pubstomping suit. PC is a different case because it's likely everyone's running dampeners and sticking together. In those cases suits like the Assault become viable because engagements are based around teamplay and pushing objectives, and not just outright slaying. If you're constantly running with a squad that scans and backs you up and you run dampeners to remain off scans, the Assault suit becomes really good. For lone wolfing, Assaults get wrecked because of EWAR. Follow me on Twitch.tv!
Union118 Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 28	Posted - 2014.11.30 19:55:00 - [30] - Quote Atiim wrote: Or we could make the class that's supposed to be better for all around slaying actually better for all around slaying. THANK YOU. My assault slayer suit works just fine. I can take on most suits 1v1. Starter Fit Suits are OP :-)

Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2963	Posted - 2014.11.30 19:59:00 - [31] - Quote Funkmaster Whale wrote: Until wallhacks are removed from this game, Scouts will always be favorable for slaying. Knowing where the enemy is through walls while simultaneously being invisible to them completely negates any HP differences. Anyone who says otherwise doesn't understand how FPS games work. Again, until such time that CCP removes the wallhacks, Scouts will remain the best pubstomping suit. PC is a different case because it's likely everyone's running dampeners and sticking together. In those cases suits like the Assault become viable because engagements are based around teamplay and pushing objectives, and not just outright slaying. If you're constantly running with a squad that scans and backs you up and you run dampeners to remain off scans, the Assault suit becomes really good. For lone wolfing, Assaults get wrecked because of EWAR. YOU CANT SEE ANYTHING ON TACNET WHILE CLOAKED! Also, to attack an enemy, you have to have enough HP to survive them attacking you back, unless they are AFK. Anyone who says otherwise doesn't understand how FPS games work. If EWAR is removed, then all suits will have to have homogenized HP pools. EWAR is the only thing making the scout even close to good at slaying. I legitimately cannot see how scouts are OP at all...they literally have nothing aside from passive scans easily beaten by an active scanner, and better dampening than anything else. All at the cost of module slots, and huge amounts of HP. Give me some numbers as to why the scout is OP, without pulling **** from your ass. "Minja" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ I piss Remote Explosives and shit Shotgun shells.
CrotchGrab 360 Yon Hyaku Nijuu Moyase 1582	Posted - 2014.11.30 20:10:00 - [32] - Quote Heavy suits = heavy weapons only scout suits = shotguns and sidearms only then assaults will have their role DUST VIDEOS
Funkmaster Whale Whale Pod 2521	Posted - 2014.11.30 20:18:00 - [33] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: YOU CANT SEE ANYTHING ON TACNET WHILE CLOAKED! Also, to attack an enemy, you have to have enough HP to survive them attacking you back, unless they are AFK. Anyone who says otherwise doesn't understand how FPS games work. If EWAR is removed, then all suits will have to have homogenized HP pools. EWAR is the only thing making the scout even close to good at slaying. I legitimately cannot see how scouts are OP at all...they literally have nothing aside from passive scans easily beaten by an active scanner, and better dampening than anything else. All at the cost of module slots, and huge amounts of HP. Give me some numbers as to why the scout is OP, without pulling **** from your ass. I'm not talking about being cloaked, I'm talking about not showing up on anyone's scans. The Cloak is completely irrelevant. Knowing where the enemy is means they're dead before they turn around. First shot advantage secures 95% of kills. If they turn around and still have time to shoot you then you're just terrible (unless it's a Heavy which you shouldn't be engaging in CQC anyway). Second, EWAR shouldn't be removed but it shouldn't show red chevrons through walls. If it only showed enemies on the radar such that it didn't give you pinpoint locales of where to point and shoot the enemy then it would be a lot more balanced. Most FPS games use this type of system because it's a lot more balanced. It provides tactical information without giving you a big red arrow that says "HE'S BEHIND THIS WALL". If you legitimately cannot see how Scouts are OP then you are legitimately a moron. Plain and simple. Active scanner doesn't beat EWAR because of duration, angle, and cooldown. Scouts are faster and have better regen at the cost of a negligible amount of HP. Those aren't "nothing" to consider in a game that relies on speed and accuracy. I've been playing this game a long time, and this game was never as easy it is now since the 1.8 Scout EWAR buff. At least in previous patches when "YOU HAVE BEEN SCANNED" was permanently burned into your screen the field was even because both sides were usually scanning each other constantly. Now it's just a game of cat and mouse. You either play to not be seen or play to have enough HP to survive high-alpha weapons that sneak up behind you. Here's me dominating an entire squad with logis/heavies in an ambush because EWAR conveniently tells me where they're coming from. Here's a game where I go 44-0 and at one point I effectively decimate the entire team at a CRU because they can't see me while I can see exactly where they are. Here's a game I went 39-1 with an advanced Scout using an advanced Tac AR. I could go pull more highlights if you want. Follow me on Twitch.tv!
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 2211	Posted - 2014.11.30 20:44:00 - [34] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Make a light suit thats designed for slaying. Good players flock to high mobility suits, which is why the scout generates so many tears. If you want to make a slayer suit that good players will use, make something that is fast, agile, regenerative, and small. Seriously. My dream suit would be a "Light Commando", which is the same as a scout, except it would be colored either black, a dark orange, or a dark purple color. It would have the same H/L slot layout as its scout counterpart, but would only have one EQ slot, and no grenade. It would have two light weapons. In terms of base stats, it would have a much lower scan profile than a scout, but much less scan range and precision (something like a Logi's base scanning stats), but also slightly more health. It would have a higher base movement and sprint speed, and better stamina, by a small amount compared to the scout. It would have equivalent regen to the scout. For bonuses, the role bonus would be a small bonus to dampening, so that at level 5, with level 5 dampening, it could dodge all non-Am scout passives without a dampener For the racial bonuses: A: 5% reduction to armor plate movement speed penalties M: 5% biotic module efficacy per level G: +1 armor per second C: 5% shield recharge rate per level Yes, it would be OP. But then people couldn't complain about "cloaky crutch users". problem is.. scout == assault but faster , has cloaks, is Tacnet immune, rapid shield recovery and much more CPU.. and can fit hp equivalent to assaults too. there is no way to get assaults out of the scout role as of yet wiht out buffing assault even more or nerfing scouts into he ground.. also note i didnt really mention logi because they already got nerfed into the ground repeatedly.. they are almost as least used as commandos. #[[LogiBro ADV/PRO]] [[Level 2 Forum Warrior]] [[Level 2 Forum Pariah]]
Forlorn Destrier Havok Dynasty 3057	Posted - 2014.11.30 20:45:00 - [35] - Quote Is this a joke? No. I am the Forgotten Warhorse, the Lord of Lightning
Thumb Green Raymond James Corp 1875	Posted - 2014.11.30 21:11:00 - [36] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: I can't be biased: I have both a scout and assault at proto, each maxed. If the scout is nerfed, it only buffs my assault, and vice versa. I have no reason to say anything other than to promote game balance. Also, why didn't you respond to my actual post? Are my points too correct for you to try to debate? I have both a playstation and a xbox, I prefer the playstation which is a bias. For an in-game example I have both AV and Vehicle skills but I'm bias in favor of AV because I feel they are weapons designed to destroy vehicles and thus should have the advantage over them. You may not realize or aren't willing to admit you're bias but all people are. It takes multiple people with different opinions actively trying to prevent it to keep bias'ness in check and even that's not going to result in being 100% unbiased. You can only debate when all involved are willing to change their minds. Which you obviously aren't, thus your actual post doesn't deserve a response. Just another bunch of dipshits.
gustavo acosta Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 550	Posted - 2014.11.30 22:02:00 - [37] - Quote What really bugs me about this post is that the OP is complaining about scout QQ, even though scout QQ has gone down since the advent of the cloak delay. I mean it's so hypocritical to complain about something that has stopped even though he's the one that started this awful post. No, "good players"(fotm chasers) did not skill into the scout suit for better mobility to even entertain such a notion is asinine. The base stats of the scouts were, and are, very good, not to mention the passive E-war benefits, and invisibility. This post is so awful that the OP tried to brush off some serious discrepancies as "butthurt," and then turned around and went to another topic to complain about how people in GD are stupid. Also hypocritical, if anyone is butthurt it's the OP, because his playstyle had been reduced to Fotm scrubbery. In conclusion, OP if you didn't want scout QQ why did you start this post? My guess is to attempt to pat yourself on the back for being a scout, but in all honesty I don't care. Just please for the love of thought stop trying to stop thought. GimmeDatSuhWeet isk
Lloyd Orfay Kinsho Swords Caldari State 241	Posted - 2014.11.30 22:11:00 - [38] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Make a light suit thats designed for slaying. Good players flock to high mobility suits, which is why the scout generates so many tears. If you want to make a slayer suit that good players will use, make something that is fast, agile, regenerative, and small. Seriously. My dream suit would be a "Light Commando", which is the same as a scout, except it would be colored either black, a dark orange, or a dark purple color. It would have the same H/L slot layout as its scout counterpart, but would only have one EQ slot, and no grenade. It would have two light weapons. In terms of base stats, it would have a much lower scan profile than a scout, but much less scan range and precision (something like a Logi's base scanning stats), but also slightly more health. It would have a higher base movement and sprint speed, and better stamina, by a small amount compared to the scout. It would have equivalent regen to the scout. For bonuses, the role bonus would be a small bonus to dampening, so that at level 5, with level 5 dampening, it could dodge all non-Am scout passives without a dampener For the racial bonuses: A: 5% reduction to armor plate movement speed penalties M: 5% biotic module efficacy per level G: +1 armor per second C: 5% shield recharge rate per level Yes, it would be OP. But then people couldn't complain about "cloaky crutch users". Senseless. There shouldn't be any slaying in the first place. Even sentinels should have to work to get somewhere(Though just like scouts, assaults supertank and av spammers, they do not work much.) This game cannot follow a sandbox form of play, because nearly everything has a limitation requiring at least some form of help from others. My Isk payout gets lower and lower the more I play, even though I'm getting better. Smells like success.
hold that Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 433	Posted - 2014.11.30 22:53:00 - [39] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Make a light suit thats designed for slaying. In terms of base stats, it would have a much lower scan profile than a scout
shaman oga T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K 3343	Posted - 2014.11.30 23:09:00 - [40] - Quote SIncerely, it would not be a problem if: fast suit = low HP, the problem is that if you tank a scout it's generally faster than an assault. There is a very very easy fix to this, apply a movement penalty based on suit mass. Light suit > burden > 2.5 or 3* current penalty Medium suit > burden > current penalty Heavy suit > burden > 0.5 current penalty Situational awareness also known as passive scan.



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