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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2951	Posted - 2014.11.30 02:56:00 - [1] - Quote Make a light suit thats designed for slaying. Good players flock to high mobility suits, which is why the scout generates so many tears. If you want to make a slayer suit that good players will use, make something that is fast, agile, regenerative, and small. Seriously. "Minja" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ I piss Remote Explosives and shit Shotgun shells.
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2951	Posted - 2014.11.30 03:06:00 - [2] - Quote Atiim wrote: Or we could make the class that's supposed to be better for all around slaying actually better for all around slaying. If you're referring to the assault class, it already is. I personally use my assault more than my scout or heavy, simply because it is a BETTER slayer. All the assault needs is slightly more scan range, and more regen as well, and it will be superior in every single way to the scout, in terms of slaying. The only thing the scout is useful for is finding points of heavy spam, and avoiding them. The assault can't because its scan range sucks. "Minja" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ I piss Remote Explosives and shit Shotgun shells.
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2953	Posted - 2014.11.30 03:47:00 - [3] - Quote Lynn Beck wrote: Scout has better Shield Regen Yes, this is true. Assaults should get a regen buff. I have been arguing that for a while. However, in a 1v1, the assault is always better. as well as identical initial DPS You have 2 additional module slots on an assault, as well as well over double the HP. You can spare at least one slot for a damage mod on an assault, whereas a scout needs all slots for eWAR or biotics or HP meaning ACR, SCR, and Shotgun are all perfect with the suit, because you can unload a clip, then use your scoutly abilities to hide between reloads/cooldowns, thus making it the ultimate assault suit, as it has: These weapons (excluding shotgun), are better used on their racial assault. ACR has an 85 round clip (WOW), and the ScR can fire a fully charged shot, followed by almost a full volley, or just a ridiculous number of shots that a scout couldn't match. These weapons (again, excluding the SG) are much, much, MUCH better used on the assault. Better Regen True. Assaults shouldn't necessarily have better regen than scouts, but they should at least have better regen than what they have now, which is pitiful (excluding the Gal assault, which has VERY nice base HP/S) Better DPS application(You can't be caught with your pants down if you're omniscient) Scouts are far from omniscient. To be "omniscient, the scout has to sacrifice several slots to scan the assault, and can't use the cloak. The assault can put a single dampener on, and remain unscannable by any Min or Cal scout who doesn't use a precision enhancer. Two dampeners, and you start dodging precision scans. You also won't ever get caught with your pants down if you're paying attention. Listen to your surroundings, and try to avoid sentinels Similar HP values(your 25% less HP also comes with a 25% smaller hitbox, so HP is null, even moreso your EWAR allowing you to see every Med/Heavy within 22 meters.) Fabricated numbers are blatantly and disgustingly fabricated. Assaults have over twice the base HP of a scout, and there is literally about a 10% size difference, AT MOST between the hitboxes. Im questioning if you have ever played the game right now IMO the only thing we need to do is switch Assault and Scout's shield regen numbers. Shield regen for all suits SUCKS. Nerfing scout regen is not only a bad idea, but is just a butthurt attack at people who are better than you at this game. Assaults, again, need a shield regen buff. Perhaps a slight armor one as well. That alone would make Caldari scouts need a shield recharger when tanking, compared to the "I have 450 shield at a 2/4 delay timer that all recharges at 50/s :D" meanwhile assaults have maybe 400 shield, and if they manage to pull off 2/4 delays, there's still the problem of profile, blindness, and the lack of 50/s on recharge. The only assault I have seen at 400 shield is an apex minmitar one. Which has, IIRC, very close to a 50 hp/s recharge rate. Also, having 450 shield will put you at a 2/6ish delay timer. Just to clarify. Profile-just put a dampener or two on. Easy. Blindness: All assaults need a scan range buff (all suits need a slight scan range buff), but they should only be able to see commandos and sentinels. If a scout sneaks up on you, he deserves to win, but even then, you have enough HP to survive anything he throws at you, and can take out his paltry HP pool with ease. Scouts(Caldari in particular) are just better skinny assaults. If this "nerf" still manages to not pull scouts layers away Good players will flock to high mobility, harder to detect suits. Thats how the game works. There will always be OP scout slayers, no matter what you do. If thats what you want to get rid of, Id suggest you file a ticket to CCP asking for people like Marauder, Frost Kitty, TTW3x, etc. to always show up on radar, have half their HP, and double aim assists effects on them, if they use a scout suit. Thats the only thing that'll pull them out of it. Scouts should be slayers in their own niche, just like commandos and even Sentinels should be slayers in their own niche. Trying to stop that is stupid, useless, and a last-ditch effort by a completely butthurt fool Then take away a weapon slot, and make a variant with the 2 possible setups: Sidearm X 2, or LW X 1. This lets Assassin Minjas have their NK/SMG, or just a CR, also lets Gal scouts have Ion Pistol/Whatever, or Shotgun. Sure, and lets also take away Sentinels heavy weapon slot, Assaults Light weapon slot, and make the commando Dual wield sidearms! Your suggestion is ridiculous, provides no balance, and is overall just bad. It castrates far too many play styles simply for you to be invulnerable to shotgunners just by bunny hopping away, because they now have no weapon that can hit past 5 meters. Its poorly concealed political nerfs at their finest. That also, coincidentally, adds a - mark to running SG scout, as you literally only have that weapon. Read the above response.^^ The stupid, it hurts. Responses in bold. "Minja" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ I piss Remote Explosives and shit Shotgun shells.
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2953	Posted - 2014.11.30 03:48:00 - [4] - Quote Joel II X wrote: Commandos are currently more of a support class at the moment. I consider it to be the AV class--can have AV weapon and anti-infantry weapon as well "Minja" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ I piss Remote Explosives and shit Shotgun shells.
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2953	Posted - 2014.11.30 03:56:00 - [5] - Quote gustavo acosta wrote: >implying "good player" flocked to the scout suit because of its mobility and not its crazy good base stats and invisibility... Once it became non-perms scannable, its mobility caused it to be something that good players flocked to. "Minja" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ I piss Remote Explosives and shit Shotgun shells.
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2953	Posted - 2014.11.30 03:59:00 - [6] - Quote gustavo acosta wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Shield regen for all suits SUCKS. Nerfing scout regen is not only a bad idea, but is just a butthurt attack at people who are better than you at this game. Assaults, again, need a shield regen buff. Perhaps a slight armor one as well. That alone would make Caldari scouts need a shield recharger when tanking, compared to the "I have 450 shield at a 2/4 delay timer that all recharges at 50/s :D" meanwhile assaults have maybe 400 shield, and if they manage to pull off 2/4 delays, there's still the problem of profile, blindness, and the lack of 50/s on recharge. The only assault I have seen at 400 shield is an apex minmitar one. Which has, IIRC, very close to a 50 hp/s recharge rate. Also, having 450 shield will put you at a 2/6ish delay timer. Just to clarify. Profile-just put a dampener or two on. Easy. Blindness: All assaults need a scan range buff (all suits need a slight scan range buff), but they should only be able to see commandos and sentinels. If a scout sneaks up on you, he deserves to win, but even then, you have enough HP to survive anything he throws at you, and can take out his paltry HP pool with ease. How is saying an inflated number that encourages a play style that isn't intended for the scout to play butthurt? And yes caldari scouts can have up to 400 shields tanked atim showed some crazy slayer scouts some forum posts ago. Scanning isn't the issue it's the fact that my gallente scout can be an assault slayer with not detriment to itself because of it's base stats. Good thing the skill bonuses are being changed to accommodate it so that scouts HAVE to add E-war to get any benefit from it. And an assault will be better than it, in every single way, other than being a scout... "Minja" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ I piss Remote Explosives and shit Shotgun shells.
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2953	Posted - 2014.11.30 04:16:00 - [7] - Quote gustavo acosta wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: And an assault will be better than it, in every single way, other than being a scout... You say that, but can you give me evidence beyond your usual "oh i use my assault more than my scout therfore it's better" routine? Like numbers, facts and non-anecdotal examples... Assault: HP: 800 Profile: 26 Speed: 9.3, IIRC CR that can easily kill any suit other than a tanked sentinel, dodges just about the same exact scans as the scout does, strafes at a negligibly slower speed, can survive all alpha weapons other than NK's on a min scout. Much better range and armor repair. Scout: HP: 400 Profile: 21 Speed: 10.31 Better scans, slightly better delays, worse regen rates. Hacks stuff fast. Dies to every alpha weapon in the game instantly. In a game based around HP differences, I see no reason why to run an assault over a scout, other than to hack things. "Minja" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ I piss Remote Explosives and shit Shotgun shells.
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2953	Posted - 2014.11.30 04:26:00 - [8] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: gustavo acosta wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: And an assault will be better than it, in every single way, other than being a scout... You say that, but can you give me evidence beyond your usual "oh i use my assault more than my scout therfore it's better" routine? Like numbers, facts and non-anecdotal examples... Assault: HP: 800 Profile: 26 Speed: 9.3, IIRC CR that can easily kill any suit other than a tanked sentinel, dodges just about the same exact scans as the scout does, strafes at a negligibly slower speed, can survive all alpha weapons other than NK's on a min scout. Much better range and armor repair. Scout: HP: 400 Profile: 21 Speed: 10.31 Better scans, slightly better delays, worse regen rates. Hacks stuff fast. Dies to every alpha weapon in the game instantly. In a game based around HP differences, I see no reason why to run an assault over a scout, other than to hack things. And, if that doesn't convince you: Im in FA. Im obviously a proto stomping scrub using the best FoTM gear of all, all the time because I'm a scrub. Therefore, if i have stopped running scout and now run assault, then that means it is an FoTM scrub suit. In addition, Ill give you my highest scores in ambush (purely slaying game mode, with scout and assault) Scout: 21-2 Assault: 30-0 In addition, most of the REALLY good PC slayers (Kallente, ReGnYuM, Skeletor Voltron, etc) all use assaults in PC now. Ive even started using my assault, whenever heavy spam is lacking. This only works for Caldari, and even then, the Scout has much better scanning and 2 equipment. Scout scanning doesn't even matter with team shared active scanners and squad shared passives. Run one person as a Gallogi or an amarr scout with range amps, and you're golden. Also, the above compared min scout to assault. "Minja" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ I piss Remote Explosives and shit Shotgun shells.
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2953	Posted - 2014.11.30 04:35:00 - [9] - Quote gustavo acosta wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Assault: HP: 800 Profile: 26 Speed: 9.3, IIRC CR that can easily kill any suit other than a tanked sentinel, dodges just about the same exact scans as the scout does, strafes at a negligibly slower speed, can survive all alpha weapons other than NK's on a min scout. Much better range and armor repair. Scout: HP: 400 Profile: 21 Speed: 10.31 Better scans, slightly better delays, worse regen rates. Hacks stuff fast. Dies to every alpha weapon in the game instantly. In a game based around HP differences, I see no reason why to run an assault over a scout, other than to hack things. And, if that doesn't convince you: Im in FA. Im obviously a proto stomping scrub using the best FoTM gear of all, all the time because I'm a scrub. Therefore, if i have stopped running scout and now run assault, then that means it is an FoTM scrub suit. In addition, Ill give you my highest scores in ambush (purely slaying game mode, with scout and assault) Scout: 21-2 Assault: 30-0 In addition, most of the REALLY good PC slayers (Kallente, ReGnYuM, Skeletor Voltron, etc) all use assaults in PC now. Ive even started using my assault, whenever heavy spam is lacking. You know what this is relatively well put together, not the anecdotal bits about FA, PC slayers, and K/d but still. I guess it works when you're comparing the most balanced suit type in the game(relatively), however that isn't true for each race. Also it seems you left out quite a few values in your analysis.(balance is based off every aspect of a suit genius) I only included the values that are important to slaying and helping the team. Unless, of course, you want to be a melee hero, in which case, you can either use the harder to use, but harder hitting assault, or the easy "invisible fist" melee scout. "Minja" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ I piss Remote Explosives and shit Shotgun shells.
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2953	Posted - 2014.11.30 04:40:00 - [10] - Quote gustavo acosta wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: gustavo acosta wrote: You know what this is relatively well put together, not the anecdotal bits about FA, PC slayers, and K/d but still. I guess it works when you're comparing the most balanced suit type in the game(relatively), however that isn't true for each race. Also it seems you left out quite a few values in your analysis.(balance is based off every aspect of a suit genius) I only included the values that are important to slaying and helping the team. Unless, of course, you want to be a melee hero, in which case, you can either use the harder to use, but harder hitting assault, or the easy "invisible fist" melee scout. Ya no, a slayer is affeceted by all the values that their suits have whether they know it or not... Name a value that i didn't list that helps a slayer with their slaying. I am being completely unbiased and brutally honest throughout this entire thread BTW. Im not intentionally trying to skew evidence to support my claims, or help myself in any way shape or form. "Minja" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ I piss Remote Explosives and shit Shotgun shells.

Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2962	Posted - 2014.11.30 16:29:00 - [11] - Quote gustavo acosta wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: gustavo acosta wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: gustavo acosta wrote: You know what this is relatively well put together, not the anecdotal bits about FA, PC slayers, and K/d but still. I guess it works when you're comparing the most balanced suit type in the game(relatively), however that isn't true for each race. Also it seems you left out quite a few values in your analysis.(balance is based off every aspect of a suit genius) I only included the values that are important to slaying and helping the team. Unless, of course, you want to be a melee hero, in which case, you can either use the harder to use, but harder hitting assault, or the easy "invisible fist" melee scout. Ya no, a slayer is affeceted by all the values that their suits have whether they know it or not... Name a value that i didn't list that helps a slayer with their slaying. I am being completely unbiased and brutally honest throughout this entire thread BTW. Im not intentionally trying to skew evidence to support my claims, or help myself in any way shape or form. Repair rate, regen rate, recharge delay, equipment, stamina Without those a slayer can't run, rep, or even think about their next engagement. Assaults all have higher rep rate than their scout counter part. Regen rate and recharge delays are, again, something I want buffed for all assaults. Therefore, those points are moot. EQ doesn't really help the slayer role as much as the support role, unless you're talking about PC, where the primary weapon is the HMG, and the secondary, the remote explosive. If you have one EQ, you're self sufficient, as you can carry hives with you. Stamina should be worse on assaults than scouts, but the difference isn't even significant (at least on the minmitar). Again, if the stamina is a serious problem for other racial assaults, which i feel it is not, then it is a stat that could be buffed without over powering the assault. "Minja" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ I piss Remote Explosives and shit Shotgun shells.
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2963	Posted - 2014.11.30 19:46:00 - [12] - Quote Thumb Green wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: The stupid, it hurts. Responses in bold. Says the guy that said Assaults are better slayers than Scouts. If that were the case then the good slayers you talked about in your first post wouldn't run Scout for slaying. Then you try to say you're unbiased, yeah anyone with half a braincell can see that isn't true. I mean hell, not only is your original post a "don't nerf me bro" but you also have the audacity to suggest making another light suit that's better at slaying in the same post. They run scout because it is faster and more mobile. Good players use speed vs. HP. And several slayers are using assaults now, as it seems to be on the upward trend in PC's as well as pubs. I can't be biased: I have both a scout and assault at proto, each maxed. If the scout is nerfed, it only buffs my assault, and vice versa. I have no reason to say anything other than to promote game balance. My original post is saying, "You can't nerf me bro, no matter how hard you try." Theres a large difference. And yes, yes I do. The scout isn't as good as slaying as an assault. The people who use them are, in general, better at slaying than people who use assaults. All the scout QQ is ridiculous. All CCP has to do is make a suit that allows good players to fully use their skills. Right now, the scout is the closest thing to that for some people, as it isn't perma scanned, and moves faster than anything else in the game. Also, why didn't you respond to my actual post? Are my points too correct for you to try to debate? "Minja" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ I piss Remote Explosives and shit Shotgun shells.
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2963	Posted - 2014.11.30 19:59:00 - [13] - Quote Funkmaster Whale wrote: Until wallhacks are removed from this game, Scouts will always be favorable for slaying. Knowing where the enemy is through walls while simultaneously being invisible to them completely negates any HP differences. Anyone who says otherwise doesn't understand how FPS games work. Again, until such time that CCP removes the wallhacks, Scouts will remain the best pubstomping suit. PC is a different case because it's likely everyone's running dampeners and sticking together. In those cases suits like the Assault become viable because engagements are based around teamplay and pushing objectives, and not just outright slaying. If you're constantly running with a squad that scans and backs you up and you run dampeners to remain off scans, the Assault suit becomes really good. For lone wolfing, Assaults get wrecked because of EWAR. YOU CANT SEE ANYTHING ON TACNET WHILE CLOAKED! Also, to attack an enemy, you have to have enough HP to survive them attacking you back, unless they are AFK. Anyone who says otherwise doesn't understand how FPS games work. If EWAR is removed, then all suits will have to have homogenized HP pools. EWAR is the only thing making the scout even close to good at slaying. I legitimately cannot see how scouts are OP at all...they literally have nothing aside from passive scans easily beaten by an active scanner, and better dampening than anything else. All at the cost of module slots, and huge amounts of HP. Give me some numbers as to why the scout is OP, without pulling **** from your ass. "Minja" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ I piss Remote Explosives and shit Shotgun shells.

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