So the missile launcher is getting target reticle that fills half the screen? or missiles that lock onto the target?

So long as you don't act like you're chasing a balloon swarm launchers are easy mode

How small is your TV? The reticule barely fills 1/4th of my screen.

Though you say the latter as if escaping SLs via Afterburner is not.

let me deploy all these counter measures to avoid the swarms

flares? nope
evasive flying? nope they're locked on
use cover? nope they've followed me around the building
hardener? well it's a pity I can't fight back since my DS is being knocked around like a $5 hooker, it'll buy me a few more shots before someone joins the swarm party

or how about i get the **** out of here using an afterburner as apparently that's the only thing an ADS is meant to do based on Ratatti's balancing

How small is your TV? The reticule barely fills 1/4th of my screen.

Though you say the latter as if escaping SLs via Afterburner is not.

Pilots in pythons eat swarms and easly kill the ones wielding them.
Cuz they have 80% resist vs swarms with activated hardeners.

Ps. About ADS v Tank. Tank will get wrecked in open. Everytime. Unless you will jump out with IAFG then you will get extra time to flee into redline.

...you just don't understand how to actually approach rationality do you? The Swarm lock-on box is enormous: it doesn't actually matter how much of the screen KT fills because it is almost impossible to lose a lock-on unless you forget to move half an inch with the right stick or a building gets in the way.


As someone pointed out, an Afterburner takes you out of the fight almost as surely as death does: you are forced away for a long period of time (considering that even with max skills you're looking at a 26s cooldown, plus however long you were running for) in a battle that lasts between 7-15 minutes (roughly, not exactly checked every battle, though that's the range I estimate) - assuming a 15 minute game, that 30+ second downtime is 1/30th of the battle.

A Swarmer will run off an ADS during their first encounter, and any additional encounter where the ADS tries to locate and remove the Swarmer but is run off is more time where they are incapable of assisting the team: despite what some might think about ADS pilots, a lot of us actually try to help with our presence, not just try to farm kills although without a good comm system it's not easy to use the full uplift and redeployment capacity, making clearing areas one of the simplest solutions to help.

Anyway, point being that escaping with an Afterburner might preserve the ship, there is little to no way to fight a Swarmer because there is no skilful or tactical method to defeating them: a Forge Gunner can be dodged and the charge time can be manipulated to at least get return fire in, whereas the Swarmer is either dead in the first second or two, flee, or die in return.

Who ever said swarms require no skill is just fooling themselves , other infantry , ADS's , DS's , HAV's and there pilots , drive by LAV's with multiple jump out's , Scout's , Commando's and stationary turrets are all pointed at swarmer's .

You have to wait for the lock-on , have position , track the vehicle and not loose it , also readjust your positioning so your not surprised by infantry as well as vehicles .

You people are silly that keep calling swarms , " No-Skill " .... your easily the ones that don't use them enough because if you did you would know better .

It doesn't matter how much you have in them and what you claim , the fact that you down play the risks leaves one to question if you actually know what your talking about .

the forge needs its splash damage back!

I love how when its something that affects DS and ADS its a problem...... but if it were HAV then it would be fair game...

Lol, you have to keep it inside of a huge lock-in box, and release the trigger. WOW.

MUCH SKILL

Given how most 1v1s I've been in against ADSs have involved them shooting missiles at me, I can safely say that it requires more than simply "looking" at the ADS to destroy it.

Though I find that ironic because to kill an Infantry with Missiles, you don't actually aim but rotate the nose of the ADS. Which, also means that you only kill them by looking at them and pressing R1 repeatedly.


Swarms require many skills, such as positioning, preparation, timing, situational awareness, flight path predictions, enemy movement path predictions, etc.

Though given how you find ADSs to be UP along with Scouts, I'm 95% sure that you're to terrible of a player to assess skill and it's perquisites.

That aside, the actual reason why SLs are more common than FGs is because the amount of suits that can use FGs vs those that can only use SLs are 2:7. Obviously people are going to invest into Swarms for AV as opposed to grinding for a new Dropsuit that they'll only use a few times.

Not that it matters. Gunnlogies and Pythons are far more common than their armored counterparts, yet do you see Swarmers and Forgers crying about it? No? Then HTFU.

I hate dropships, and especially rooftop tactics...primarily because the only counter to beat them is to join them. Literally every dropship pilot who feels it is their job to litter the rooftops and storage tanks with uplinks irritates me. I understand the preemptive planning involved. "What if they spam vehicles? We will want the high ground to be safe from infantry so we can forge snipe. Also, I just need to turn down my sensitivity so I can hit those crazy flying bastards and I'll need to turn it up again for decent gun play when I get back to the real game of infantry combat."

Who ever said swarms require no skill is just fooling themselves , other infantry , ADS's , DS's , HAV's and there pilots , drive by LAV's with multiple jump out's , Scout's , Commando's and stationary turrets are all pointed at swarmer's .

You have to wait for the lock-on , have position , track the vehicle and not loose it , also readjust your positioning so your not surprised by infantry as well as vehicles .

You people are silly that keep calling swarms , " No-Skill " .... your easily the ones that don't use them enough because if you did you would know better .

It doesn't matter how much you have in them and what you claim , the fact that you down play the risks leaves one to question if you actually know what your talking about .

Who ever said swarms require no skill is just fooling themselves , other infantry , ADS's , DS's , HAV's and there pilots , drive by LAV's with multiple jump out's , Scout's , Commando's and stationary turrets are all pointed at swarmer's .

You have to wait for the lock-on , have position , track the vehicle and not loose it , also readjust your positioning so your not surprised by infantry as well as vehicles .

You people are silly that keep calling swarms , " No-Skill " .... your easily the ones that don't use them enough because if you did you would know better .

It doesn't matter how much you have in them and what you claim , the fact that you down play the risks leaves one to question if you actually know what your talking about .

So I hear a lot of complaining, is there legitimacy to the tears or just butthurt over the loss of god mode? What metric should be used to objectively evaluate this? What is the average number of kills/spawn for both HAV and DS? What should it be? How many swarms should be lost for every vehicle lost? Honestly, if we are talking truly balanced we should see a 1:1 ratio, if we balance by ISK, maybe a 3:1. I can't imagine any vehicle user being happy with these numbers though, I suspect it is closer to 15-25 kills per ADS spawn and 10 for tanks. What do vehicle users think it should be?

To put it in perspective the most OP dropsuit probably has an average kdr below 2. Probably the lowest kdr belongs to a swarm fit.

Hell I still use my Ishokune Assault Forge to **** ADS especially now that they can't fit them very well. I can knock proto ADS out of the sky in 3 hits (2 hits if its an incubus and it takes a shot to the massive weakpoints on its sides) and my fit isn't even optimal damage.

Swarms good pilots can escape from but you can't escape a proto assault forge unless you are lucky to avoid their shots. Which granted and has been stated that's why you don't see so many forge guns. That's also why you mostly see hmgs and shotgun scouts. Forge guns take a lot of skill to hit an ADS spazzing out in the sky, swarms auto follow, just like hmgs and shotgun cloaked scouts is a sure fire way to ensure you kill someone before dying and come out with a positive K/DR.

Ease of use will always dictate popularity. Forge guns are still beast in the right hands, just they aren't as popular since swarms became viable AV weapons again.

PS. ADS were fine until the CPM had em nerfed, should've fought harder Rhadithmus or however you spell his name...

If ADS are going to be the LAVs of the skies I think they should cost the same as the more durable but slower STD dropships.

PS. PS. ADV and Proto Turrets Large and small seriously need a price drop. Most the reasons why a Proto HAV or Proto ADS cost over 500k isk is because of how stupid expensive the proto turrets are.

Forgeguns were replaced by swarms.


Reason: Forgeguns require skill, swarms do not. Swarms are just as if not more effective as well .

Oh look, another forum nobody spouting off about things they know nothing about

Ahh, it's refreshing

Just playing on my vehicle alt yesterday, some guy is swarming my grimsnes off an elevated position, he hits me with 3 swarms, which I easily tank and rep back in under ~10 seconds.

We ran away pretty quickly of course and decided to come back after repping and kill him.

So we turn around, come back, and shoot him 3 times, and he was dead.

1. He shoots me with full load from his swarm launcher. I am at no time in danger of dying because I can both tank through all his damage or just run away and escape all but the first volley.

2. We rep all the damage back in about 10 seconds, and decide to come back and kill him.

3. We come back and kill him, without any sort of danger to ourselves.

So. If we look at the above, we see that a dropship is engaging the kind of fitting that is supposed to be its direct in game counter without any fear of death whatsoever, and completely overwhelming and killing them with trivial effort. What do you think is overpowered in this situation? Pro tip: it isnt the swarm launcher.

Now on top of that think about the rest of the game for the dropship and the swarm launcher.

If I continue playing in my drop ship, I can expect similar immunity to death unless I am attacked by 2-3 or more AV players simultaneously while I am in a bad position. I will go through the rest of the match slaughtering infantry with little or no opposition.

If the swarm launcher continues playing in his swarm fit, he will spend the entire match desperately dodging enemy infantry while futilely trying to fire missiles at my dropship or other vehicles, all of which could end his clones pathetic life at their leisure.

Sure sounds like swarm launchers are op, man they sure do need a nerf. Also buff dropships, I mean, they might die if a bunch of players switch to AV, sit in a single spot, and all fire at once if I make the mistake of sitting still like a ****** for too long!

You know how you can tell swarms are OP? Because tankers wear a swarm fit in their tank and when they see another tank they pop out and insta-kill them using no-skill swarms. Oh wait, I've never seen anybody do that.

It's probably because they are proud tankers and decided that it is unfair gameplay to jump out of their tank in an OP suit to kill a hapless victim. Oh wait...

Ok, I think there are some tweaks that should be made and ADS prices should drop, but it is also clear that vehicle users have a double standard and believe that vehicles should make them more powerful than any infantry, even those specifically designed to kill them.