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Benjamin Ciscko
Fatal Absolution
3484
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Posted - 2014.11.20 22:12:00 -
[1] - Quote
1st off its not OP I have no trouble wrecking 90% of cal scouts in 1v1s w/ my assault suit However Rattati seems to think its OP This does not apply just to the cal scout but to all shield suits in my opinion Shields should give different amounts to lights, mediums and heavies.
So Mediums being the base as it is the middle ground will receive the current number 66 lights 50% 33 Sentinels 150% 99
**KEEP IN MIND THESE ARE DEMONSTRATIONAL NUMBERS**
Further more these modifiers can be altered based on race to discourage brick tanking.
Base stats may have to be altered slightly or perhaps an increased/decreased regen delay based on light/medium/heavy to discourage Cal sents stacking 1100+ shields.
Fatal Absolution Director
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Leadfoot10
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
2232
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Posted - 2014.11.20 22:17:00 -
[2] - Quote
THE PROBLEM IS NOT CAL SCOUTS OR SHIELD TANKING.
The problem is SPEED tanking & low frame rates leading to poor hit detection. Doesn't matter what suit you play it on. Get a fast moving suit (particularly in a low frame rate situation) and see for yourself.
People think it's the cal scout, but it is not. I do the same thing in an Am scout and even a speed tanked cal assault. I've seen others do it with Min Heavies!
Nerf the cal scout if you wish, but I'm fairly convinced that's not sure that's what is really going on here.... |
Jacques Cayton II
Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance
1129
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Posted - 2014.11.20 22:19:00 -
[3] - Quote
Benjamin Ciscko wrote:1st off its not OP I have no trouble wrecking 90% of cal scouts in 1v1s w/ my assault suit However Rattati seems to think its OP This does not apply just to the cal scout but to all shield suits in my opinion Shields should give different amounts to lights, mediums and heavies.
So Mediums being the base as it is the middle ground will receive the current number 66 lights 50% 33 Sentinels 150% 99
**KEEP IN MIND THESE ARE DEMONSTRATIONAL NUMBERS**
Further more these modifiers can be altered based on race to discourage brick tanking.
Base stats may have to be altered slightly or perhaps an increased/decreased regen delay based on light/medium/heavy to discourage Cal sents stacking 1100+ shields. Cal cant stack more than 929 shield do you even shield tank bro?
We fight for the future of the State not our
personal goals
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TRULY ELITE
WarRavens Capital Punishment.
178
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Posted - 2014.11.20 22:20:00 -
[4] - Quote
Benjamin Ciscko wrote:1st off its not OP I have no trouble wrecking 90% of cal scouts in 1v1s w/ my assault suit However Rattati seems to think its OP This does not apply just to the cal scout but to all shield suits in my opinion Shields should give different amounts to lights, mediums and heavies.
So Mediums being the base as it is the middle ground will receive the current number 66 lights 50% 33 Sentinels 150% 99
**KEEP IN MIND THESE ARE DEMONSTRATIONAL NUMBERS**
Further more these modifiers can be altered based on race to discourage brick tanking.
Base stats may have to be altered slightly or perhaps an increased/decreased regen delay based on light/medium/heavy to discourage Cal sents stacking 1100+ shields. So by doing this you make shields useless on scouts, this should only work unless the same thing applies to armour otherwise it makes armour tanking OP on scouts compared to shield tanks on scouts. Before you say 'but armour is getting the strafe penalty', reactive plates are not getting the penalty or if so barely noticeable and if these numbers go than it means a reactive plate gives more than double the amount of HP as a complex shield extender, half the fitting costs, 3HP/s. This is comparing complex reactives and shields together. Does this sound fair? |
sir RAVEN WING
Horizons' Edge Proficiency V.
363
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Posted - 2014.11.20 22:24:00 -
[5] - Quote
More nerfs on cal tech... Sooner or later Gal tech will look at Cal tech and we just die... I guess a few loyalists screaming 'FREEEEDOOOM' and ignoring everyone else is more important... Anyway, why nerf it? It's 1 suit that isn't overpowered or underpowered... I use Cal scouts and see no problem with them. If anything they are weaker... They are all sheild and that means... pew pew pew +50 kill. Anyway... RR petition is still going with a few people that have signed it... About 7 people and 3 that say no... Just saying... RR charge time...
This is the after forum, the old forum sploded when The Barbershop reached page 514 ...
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TRULY ELITE
WarRavens Capital Punishment.
178
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Posted - 2014.11.20 22:24:00 -
[6] - Quote
Leadfoot10 wrote:THE PROBLEM IS NOT CAL SCOUTS OR SHIELD TANKING.
The problem is SPEED tanking & low frame rates leading to poor hit detection. Doesn't matter what suit you play it on. Get a fast moving suit (particularly in a low frame rate situation) and see for yourself.
People think it's the cal scout, but it is not. No more than it was with MKB, which was the old forum-myth for the same thing. I can dodge bullets in an Am Scout and even a speed tanked Cal Assault. I've seen others do it with Min Heavies!
Nerf the Cal Scout or shield tankers if you wish, but I'm fairly convinced that's not sure that's what is really going on here....
All of the above said, I've long been a proponent of shield and armor extenders being % based rather than HP based. In other words, a sentinel should get more HP from an armor plate or a shield extender than a scout would. CCP has implemented this balance by the difference in base HP, but a % of base for each module always made more sense as a balancing characteristic for the reasons you laid out. Exactly, people use the cal scout as the most prominent example because most good cal scouts don't use plates at all and just shields, the fact that the cal scout is the 2nd most used scout means you see a lot on the field. Yes the most used scout is the Gallente and yes they can do the exact same thing but when do you ever come across a Gallente scout which doesn't use 'JUST FERROES/ REACTIVES? Thing is, you don't. |
TRULY ELITE
WarRavens Capital Punishment.
178
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Posted - 2014.11.20 22:26:00 -
[7] - Quote
And to those who think the cal scout is OP in the current meta. Do you even breach AR bro? |
Leadfoot10
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
2234
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Posted - 2014.11.20 22:28:00 -
[8] - Quote
TRULY ELITE wrote:Exactly, people use the cal scout as the most prominent example because most good cal scouts don't use plates at all and just shields, the fact that the cal scout is the 2nd most used scout means you see a lot on the field. Yes the most used scout is the Gallente and yes they can do the exact same thing but when do you ever come across a Gallente scout which doesn't use 'JUST FERROES/ REACTIVES? Thing is, you don't.
I ran one and found out myself. Guess what? Exact same mechanic.
Same for Min Assault too....and it can rock even more HP. Becomes vulnerable to scout EWAR though. |
Leadfoot10
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
2235
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Posted - 2014.11.20 22:30:00 -
[9] - Quote
TRULY ELITE wrote:And to those who think the cal scout is OP in the current meta. Do you even breach AR bro?
And don't tell anyone, but the ARR is also in a pretty good place. Just get 'em quick (i.e. before kick kicks in or they close the distance and shoot you in the face).
That said, to deny scouts aren't OP (or, at the least, overused) is not being objective, IMO. |
Vicious Minotaur
1363
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Posted - 2014.11.20 22:37:00 -
[10] - Quote
I had no idea my standard Caldari Scout with ~380 eHP was in need of nerfing.
Two complex extenders and around 300 shields is unacceptable for a standard-tier Scout suit! I must only be able to fit a maximum ~270 Shields on a standard Caldari Scout!
Yeah. No, thanks.
I am a minotaur.
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doc lowroar
Random Gunz RISE of LEGION
25
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Posted - 2014.11.20 22:45:00 -
[11] - Quote
Leadfoot10 wrote:THE PROBLEM IS NOT CAL SCOUTS OR SHIELD TANKING.
The problem is SPEED tanking & low frame rates leading to poor hit detection. Doesn't matter what suit you play it on. Get a fast moving suit (particularly in a low frame rate situation) and see for yourself.
People think it's the cal scout, but it is not. No more than it was with MKB, which was the old forum-myth for the same thing. I can dodge bullets in an Am Scout and even a speed tanked Cal Assault. I've seen others do it with Min Heavies!
Nerf the Cal Scout or shield tankers if you wish, but I'm fairly convinced that's not sure that's what is really going on here....
All of the above said, I've long been a proponent of shield and armor extenders being % based rather than HP based. In other words, a sentinel should get more HP from an armor plate or a shield extender than a scout would. CCP has implemented this balance by the difference in base HP, but a % of base for each module always made more sense as a balancing characteristic for the reasons you laid out.
Ccp please pay attention. What he said ^ speed needs to be toned down to a semi sci fi realistic level. The dance dance revolution strafe just looks silly .
"Wherever you go, there you are" -BB
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Ghost Kaisar
Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance
8135
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Posted - 2014.11.20 23:36:00 -
[12] - Quote
Vicious Minotaur wrote:I had no idea my standard Caldari Scout with ~380 eHP was in need of nerfing.
Two complex extenders and around 300 shields is unacceptable for a standard-tier Scout suit! I must only be able to fit a maximum ~270 Shields on a standard Caldari Scout!
Yeah. No, thanks.
I'm lucky to be able to fit more than 270 on any Minmatar scout suit.
You guys have no idea how much it sucks to be that low on eHP. Almost every scout in the game EXCEPT the Minmatar can tank a shotgun shell if they run enough eHP (And still be fast).
Min Scout? Hell, I can't even run 3x Shields and Speed without killing my PG.
Bullet Hell and Duct-Tape? Count me in!
FA recruits get free officer BPO's. Enlist today. Must be a scrub to enter.
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Bright Cloud
Namtar Elite Gallente Federation
550
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Posted - 2014.11.21 01:03:00 -
[13] - Quote
Shut up! Strafing is OP! MUST NERF! GNYAAAARGH!!
Bright is the opposite of dark! Who would have thought of that?!
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Happy Violentime
OMFGZOMBIESRUN
898
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Posted - 2014.11.21 01:10:00 -
[14] - Quote
Ghost Kaisar wrote:Vicious Minotaur wrote:I had no idea my standard Caldari Scout with ~380 eHP was in need of nerfing.
Two complex extenders and around 300 shields is unacceptable for a standard-tier Scout suit! I must only be able to fit a maximum ~270 Shields on a standard Caldari Scout!
Yeah. No, thanks.
I'm lucky to be able to fit more than 270 on any Minmatar scout suit. You guys have no idea how much it sucks to be that low on eHP. Almost every scout in the game EXCEPT the Minmatar can tank a shotgun shell if they run enough eHP (And still be fast). Min Scout? Hell, I can't even run 3x Shields and Speed without killing my PG.
Yes but with all that speed and the small hitbox and the barely there AA you should be able to dodge bullets so easily you don't need shields. |
Pvt Numnutz
Prophets of the Velocirapture
1982
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Posted - 2014.11.21 01:37:00 -
[15] - Quote
I've talked to a few of my buddies about this before and it does seem like a decent idea. Honestly anything to make scouts preform the role of a scout I would be in favor for.
Tho I expect reactions like, "you just want to make scouts useless (as slayers)" "how am I suppose to kill whole squads?!" "How will I survive frisbee remoting people?!" "Wasn't the cloak Nerf enough?!"
Master Skyshark rider
Kaalaka dakka tamer
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Benjamin Ciscko
Fatal Absolution
3486
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Posted - 2014.11.21 01:44:00 -
[16] - Quote
Jacques Cayton II wrote:Benjamin Ciscko wrote:1st off its not OP I have no trouble wrecking 90% of cal scouts in 1v1s w/ my assault suit However Rattati seems to think its OP This does not apply just to the cal scout but to all shield suits in my opinion Shields should give different amounts to lights, mediums and heavies.
So Mediums being the base as it is the middle ground will receive the current number 66 lights 50% 33 Sentinels 150% 99
**KEEP IN MIND THESE ARE DEMONSTRATIONAL NUMBERS**
Further more these modifiers can be altered based on race to discourage brick tanking.
Base stats may have to be altered slightly or perhaps an increased/decreased regen delay based on light/medium/heavy to discourage Cal sents stacking 1100+ shields. Cal cant stack more than 929 shield do you even shield tank bro? With core skills a 99 hp shield extender would give you 125 shields per extender 4 extenders give you 500ish HP + 656 base = 1100 ish
Do you even read bro?
Fatal Absolution Director
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Benjamin Ciscko
Fatal Absolution
3486
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Posted - 2014.11.21 01:55:00 -
[17] - Quote
Benjamin Ciscko wrote:Jacques Cayton II wrote:Benjamin Ciscko wrote:1st off its not OP I have no trouble wrecking 90% of cal scouts in 1v1s w/ my assault suit However Rattati seems to think its OP This does not apply just to the cal scout but to all shield suits in my opinion Shields should give different amounts to lights, mediums and heavies.
So Mediums being the base as it is the middle ground will receive the current number 66 lights 50% 33 Sentinels 150% 99
**KEEP IN MIND THESE ARE DEMONSTRATIONAL NUMBERS**
Further more these modifiers can be altered based on race to discourage brick tanking.
Base stats may have to be altered slightly or perhaps an increased/decreased regen delay based on light/medium/heavy to discourage Cal sents stacking 1100+ shields. Cal cant stack more than 929 shield do you even shield tank bro? With core skills a 99 hp shield extender would give you 125 shields per extender 4 extenders give you 500ish HP + 656 base = 1100 ish Do you even read bro? nvm ran the numbers wrong but still in the neighborhood of 1100 probably about 1095.
Fatal Absolution Director
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Benjamin Ciscko
Fatal Absolution
3486
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Posted - 2014.11.21 02:01:00 -
[18] - Quote
TRULY ELITE wrote:Benjamin Ciscko wrote:1st off its not OP I have no trouble wrecking 90% of cal scouts in 1v1s w/ my assault suit However Rattati seems to think its OP This does not apply just to the cal scout but to all shield suits in my opinion Shields should give different amounts to lights, mediums and heavies.
So Mediums being the base as it is the middle ground will receive the current number 66 lights 50% 33 Sentinels 150% 99
**KEEP IN MIND THESE ARE DEMONSTRATIONAL NUMBERS**
Further more these modifiers can be altered based on race to discourage brick tanking.
Base stats may have to be altered slightly or perhaps an increased/decreased regen delay based on light/medium/heavy to discourage Cal sents stacking 1100+ shields. So by doing this you make shields useless on scouts, this should only work unless the same thing applies to armour otherwise it makes armour tanking OP on scouts compared to shield tanks on scouts. Before you say 'but armour is getting the strafe penalty', reactive plates are not getting the penalty or if so barely noticeable and if these numbers go than it means a reactive plate gives more than double the amount of HP as a complex shield extender, half the fitting costs, 3HP/s. This is comparing complex reactives and shields together. Does this sound fair? Personally I don't think anything but Ferros and reactives should be fit table on scouts and even those would need to be proportionate to shields. They would still provide more HP but not a huge amount more.
P.S. If you shield/armor/dual tank your scout with a CR, BAR or any other rifle and use it too slay your an assault and might as well use one.
Fatal Absolution Director
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Funkmaster Whale
Whale Pod
2505
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Posted - 2014.11.21 03:25:00 -
[19] - Quote
Fidgeting with numbers is never truly going to bring balance to Scouts. Scouts are OP and have been OP because of EWAR. The fact of the matter is that EWAR is too exclusive to Scouts right now, and that is why the class is so saturated.
As someone who abuses the hell out of it I can attest to this. No one wants to admit that passive scans are what make Scouts the ultimate slayer suit. If you really wanted to balance Scouts you would be asking CCP to remove the chevrons from passive scans and make passive scans apply to the radar only (that little thing on the top left of your screen).
The simple fact that I have a constant aura of little red dots over everyone's head that's around me means I never have to expose myself. I know precisely where I need to be standing and the line of sight the enemy has because the game is literally giving me that information on my screen.
If red dots appeared only on my radar and not my actual screen, all of a sudden the Scout game becomes incredibly different. I can't rely on knowing that there's a red dot around the corner because it shows it to me on my screen. I now only have a red dot on my radar that shows there's an enemy in the vicinity. I don't know if he's around that corner 100%, I only know he's nearby. He could be above me or below me or what have you. By not giving me the exact whereabouts of everyone that's not a Scout, I would actually have to expose myself to make visual contact if I wanted to get a kill. As a Scout that decision is all the more important when you don't know EXACTLY where someone is, only that he MAY be there because your radar detects a signature.
Trust me, if you removed the HUD chevrons from passive scans and left it radar-ony, I guarantee Scouts would not be nearly as strong as they are now. Keep active scanners the way they are. They have a duration, range, precision, cooldown, you name it. Passive scans are always on and work seamlessly. This game would benefit tremendously from this one change and I think you'd see a sharp drop in Scout usage because of how easy-mode it is now.
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Mike Ox Bigger
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
478
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Posted - 2014.11.21 03:39:00 -
[20] - Quote
Cal Scout was just nerfed with the Breach AR... all scouts were. They don't even really bother me anymore... |
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