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Shield Tanking vs Armor Tanking

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Cavani1EE7 Murphys-Law General Tso's Alliance 511	Posted - 2014.11.17 22:01:00 - [1] - Quote Go. Take a bow
Jacques Cayton II Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 1098	Posted - 2014.11.17 22:03:00 - [2] - Quote Rep tool rep hives nough said We fight for the future of the State not our personal goals
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 14723	Posted - 2014.11.17 22:04:00 - [3] - Quote Madrugar lack of fitting space....... and passive reps. Shield HAV take the cake every time. "HeGÇÖs sorry. ThatGÇÖs his sorry faceGÇª. Just keep quiet for now and maybe you'll get through this." -Kador Ouryon
Cavani1EE7 Murphys-Law General Tso's Alliance 511	Posted - 2014.11.17 22:05:00 - [4] - Quote Armor tanking Far higher HP Less PG/CPU usage Less slots usage Is in the low slots, so you can fit damage mods in the highs = Higher damage Take a bow
Zatara Rought Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4631	Posted - 2014.11.17 22:11:00 - [5] - Quote You almost always recover shields faster than armor (not counting rep tools or hives)...and because shields end up having lower EHP you also end up getting back to full shields faster. (lol) now imagine if all shield suits were balanced so that you could only get 70% of an armor suits total EHP. But you had a 1 second delay overall till your shield bgan recharging. B3RT > PFBHz > TEAM > MHPD > IMPS > FA They call me ~Princess Zatata~ Skype: Zatara.Rought Twitter: @ZataraRought
Zatara Rought Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4631	Posted - 2014.11.17 22:13:00 - [6] - Quote you get to damp without damaging your 'main' tank. Relevant once e-war for mediums is a thing soon(TM) B3RT > PFBHz > TEAM > MHPD > IMPS > FA They call me ~Princess Zatata~ Skype: Zatara.Rought Twitter: @ZataraRought
Cavani1EE7 Murphys-Law General Tso's Alliance 511	Posted - 2014.11.17 22:14:00 - [7] - Quote Zatara Rought wrote: You almost always recover shields faster than armor (not counting rep tools or hives)...and because shields end up having lower EHP you also end up getting back to full shields faster. (lol) now imagine if all shield suits were balanced so that you could only get 70% of an armor suits total EHP. But you had a 1 second delay overall till your shield bgan recharging. That's meaningless if the delay stops even if you lose 1 single goddamn hp though. Take a bow
Cavani1EE7 Murphys-Law General Tso's Alliance 512	Posted - 2014.11.17 22:25:00 - [8] - Quote Zatara Rought wrote: you get to damp without damaging your 'main' tank. Relevant once e-war for mediums is a thing soon(TM) Valid point. I have one comp. dampener in my CalAssault wish fit already. Take a bow
Bojo The Mighty Spaceman Drug Cartel-Uno 5156	Posted - 2014.11.17 22:28:00 - [9] - Quote My question is where is the unreliability of shields that it's ascribed to have? Bojo For CPM
Zatara Rought Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4631	Posted - 2014.11.17 22:29:00 - [10] - Quote Cavani1EE7 wrote: That's meaningless if the regen stops even if you lose 1 single goddamn hp though. With dust's hit detection and all the cover to give yourself 1 sec? Maybe...then give it 0 delay? B3RT > PFBHz > TEAM > MHPD > IMPS > FA They call me ~Princess Zatata~ Skype: Zatara.Rought Twitter: @ZataraRought

shaman oga The Dunwich Horror 3222	Posted - 2014.11.17 22:29:00 - [11] - Quote Luck tank.
Bojo The Mighty Spaceman Drug Cartel-Uno 5157	Posted - 2014.11.17 22:31:00 - [12] - Quote shaman oga wrote: Luck tank. Thank god I have Flucks grenades Bojo For CPM
DeadlyAztec11 Ostrakon Agency 5976	Posted - 2014.11.17 22:39:00 - [13] - Quote Ferroscale and two reps. The best of both worlds. All the lightness and recovery of shields but the shear high amount of HP like armor. Put your flags up in the sky. And wave them side to side. Show the world where you're from. Show the world we are one.
Vulpes Dolosus Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2578	Posted - 2014.11.17 22:40:00 - [14] - Quote Zatara Rought wrote: Cavani1EE7 wrote: That's meaningless if the regen stops even if you lose 1 single goddamn hp though. With dust's hit detection and all the cover to give yourself 1 sec? Maybe...then give it 0 delay? Yeah, because that's working so well with the Cal heavy's 1sec delay. And even if it wasn't bugged, then that's mean constant regen which some may say is a little OP. (Though a mod that reduces both delay time to zero and regen amount would be interesting...) Dust is there! I was real! Dear diary, Rattati senpai noticed me today~
Mexxx Dust-Slayer Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 122	Posted - 2014.11.17 22:43:00 - [15] - Quote The weapons that are primarily anti-shield hurt, from the 100 shot per bullet ScrR to the higher DPS rifle all against the lower HP tank.
Mike Ox Bigger KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 443	Posted - 2014.11.17 22:45:00 - [16] - Quote Zatara Rought wrote: you get to damp without damaging your 'main' tank. Relevant once e-war for mediums is a thing soon(TM) This is why the Caldari suits and Minmatar suits are my favorites. I been trying to tell people about damps on medium frames forever now and everyone laughs and thinks I'm crazy but ewar is a seriously powerful tool and ducking all advanced scanners and non scouts is pretty crucial. I play a lot of solo, it makes a big difference to me. Really you can fit them on all suits just add a shield to compensate the missing armor but aesthetically it goes better on shield tank suits as they they come with more CPU that is except for the Cal Logi... BTW now that Logislayer isn't really a thing anymore and we fix the Cal Logi?!?
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 1940	Posted - 2014.11.17 23:58:00 - [17] - Quote Cavani1EE7 wrote: Go. shield for hit n run.. armor for brawl/tank.. this is why reptools for armor but non for shields.. shield tanks usually run lower total ehp but can move around faster armor tanks are higher ehp but move slower both armor and shield tanks have multiple "nemesis" weapons which do more vs a certain tank type shield is weak to- flux nades AR's SCRs SCPs armor is weak to CR's SMGs flays nades RRs bolt pistols mass drivers as armor gets like 2x more tank then shield it only makes sense they have more weapons which are strong against armor. [[LogiBro ADV/PRO]] [[Level 1 Forum Warrior]] [[Level 2 Forum Pariah]] All Hail our Lord and Savior CCP RATTATTI o7
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 1940	Posted - 2014.11.17 23:59:00 - [18] - Quote Zatara Rought wrote: Cavani1EE7 wrote: That's meaningless if the regen stops even if you lose 1 single goddamn hp though. With dust's hit detection and all the cover to give yourself 1 sec? Maybe...then give it 0 delay? shields used to have 0 delay.. as a CPM you should know this.. 0delay + cal scout == godmode. #NeverAgain! [[LogiBro ADV/PRO]] [[Level 1 Forum Warrior]] [[Level 2 Forum Pariah]] All Hail our Lord and Savior CCP RATTATTI o7
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 1537	Posted - 2014.11.18 00:19:00 - [19] - Quote Those Shield Hardeners make Caldari Scouts so OP, -40% damage, please nerf! Ahem, Dear Cavani, could you please specify in both the thread name and original post whether you want to discuss Dropsuit tanking methods OR vehicle tanking methods. People would enjoy Dust a lot more if they accepted the fact that EVERYTHING is subject to change
Cavani1EE7 Murphys-Law General Tso's Alliance 514	Posted - 2014.11.18 00:22:00 - [20] - Quote Apothecary Za'ki wrote: Cavani1EE7 wrote: Go. shield for hit n run.. armor for brawl/tank.. this is why reptools for armor but non for shields.. shield tanks usually run lower total ehp but can move around faster armor tanks are higher ehp but move slower both armor and shield tanks have multiple "nemesis" weapons which do more vs a certain tank type shield is weak to- flux nades AR's SCRs SCPs armor is weak to CR's SMGs flays nades RRs bolt pistols mass drivers as armor gets like 2x more tank then shield it only makes sense they have more weapons which are strong against armor. Just lol @ that statement. Anytime I'll see your name in a thread, I'm not gonna read what you have to say. Plus youdidn't even mention the Shotgun, the ion pistol, the laser and you mentioned the flaycock? lol. And than if you fit ferroscales and reactives and put a kin cat, you still have a godmode aHP with 8m/s+ speed; pretty much what a lot of galassaults and amarr are doing. Take a bow

Cavani1EE7 Murphys-Law General Tso's Alliance 514	Posted - 2014.11.18 00:24:00 - [21] - Quote KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: Those Shield Hardeners make Caldari Scouts so OP, -40% damage, please nerf! Ahem, Dear Cavani, could you please specify in both the thread name and original post whether you want to discuss Dropsuit tanking methods OR vehicle tanking methods. lolvehicles. that's all. But k I will. Take a bow
Zatara Rought Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4639	Posted - 2014.11.18 00:24:00 - [22] - Quote Apothecary Za'ki wrote: Zatara Rought wrote: Cavani1EE7 wrote: That's meaningless if the regen stops even if you lose 1 single goddamn hp though. With dust's hit detection and all the cover to give yourself 1 sec? Maybe...then give it 0 delay? shields used to have 0 delay.. as a CPM you should know this.. 0delay + cal scout == godmode. #NeverAgain! OMG over and over you prove to be a no nothing ****. Please show me where Cal scouts had a 0 delay? EVER You gotta be the stupidest person I've run into since Buster Friendly and 8213 and any of his alts (anyone in the corp Grade No.2, checkles brown...etc) I'm serious man..you're killing me with the stupidity. B3RT > PFBHz > TEAM > MHPD > IMPS > FA They call me ~Princess Zatata~ Skype: Zatara.Rought Twitter: @ZataraRought
Mex-0 158	Posted - 2014.11.18 00:25:00 - [23] - Quote Armor tanking allows you to have over 1000 armor on an amarr assault. If you have a few Logis on you, it can be really OP. MINJA
Jacques Cayton II Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 1099	Posted - 2014.11.18 00:27:00 - [24] - Quote Cavani1EE7 wrote: Zatara Rought wrote: You almost always recover shields faster than armor (not counting rep tools or hives)...and because shields end up having lower EHP you also end up getting back to full shields faster. (lol) now imagine if all shield suits were balanced so that you could only get 70% of an armor suits total EHP. But you had a 1 second delay overall till your shield bgan recharging. That's meaningless if the regen stops even if you lose 1 single goddamn hp though. So true We fight for the future of the State not our personal goals
Jacques Cayton II Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 1099	Posted - 2014.11.18 00:29:00 - [25] - Quote Apothecary Za'ki wrote: Cavani1EE7 wrote: Go. shield for hit n run.. armor for brawl/tank.. this is why reptools for armor but non for shields.. shield tanks usually run lower total ehp but can move around faster armor tanks are higher ehp but move slower both armor and shield tanks have multiple "nemesis" weapons which do more vs a certain tank type shield is weak to- flux nades AR's SCRs SCPs armor is weak to CR's SMGs flays nades RRs bolt pistols mass drivers as armor gets like 2x more tank then shield it only makes sense they have more weapons which are strong against armor. You know in eve Caldar tank shields not hit and run We fight for the future of the State not our personal goals
Benjamin Ciscko Fatal Absolution 3476	Posted - 2014.11.18 02:14:00 - [26] - Quote Damps Speed Strafe Regen (This can only be achieved through the sacrifice of eHP mods which are much more necessary on shield suits than armor) Damage mods eHP reps armor rep nanos Typically have higher DPS weapons Fatal Absolution Director
Imp Smash Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 403	Posted - 2014.11.18 04:00:00 - [27] - Quote Shield Tanking potentially better than Armor tanking. Currently Armor tanking > shield. Conceptually they are fairly even but in practice not quite so. Legend: + = an advantage - = a disadvantage +/- neither an advantage nor disadvantage Armor: +More Hp (FerroScale vs Shield Extenders) at no movement loss versions +Constant Regen +Repairable via Hive or Rep Tool -Inconsequetial native regen -For higher regen HP slot must be sacrificed +/- Varieties exist (MOAR HP for a speed penalty or MOAR native regen for a speed penalty) Shield +SIGNIFICANTLY Higher Native Regen + No slot usage required for said high native regen + Low slot for the regulator (regen beginning faster) - Cannot be repaired - Shield HP stacking has Regen penalties - Delay before regen begins -- does not work under fire - Lower HP than comparable armor plates (FerroScale vs extenders) - For higher native regen HP slots must be sacrificed. -/+ No varieties I left out damage profiles as there are a variety of weapons that work better or worse against each. Conceptually they make sense. Shields for skirmishing, armor for sustained combat. However, the minuses behind armor are more easily mitigated than the minuses behind shields. Most of the above (with the exception of repair/regen) are limited to inherent factors. THEN add in the cost of fitting options. Shield tankers can't really fit damage mods without sacrificing HP. Armor tankers can't really fit speed mods without sacrificing HP. (or in both cases -- regen) So that further puts shield into the fast skirmisher role and armor in the sustained combat role. Again -- both of those being better at those roles are fine (creates flavor due to the different philosophies). However, when everything is said and done, I would say shields are slightly weaker than armor simply due to the penalties associated with stacking shields. The concept of high shield regen is offset by the concept of armor regenning during combat and being able to be repped. With those two different factors complementing eachother and effectively cancelling each other out, why is it that shield tankers have a regen penalty and less HP for comparable modules (Extender vs Ferroscale)? For perspective purposes I am a: Main Toon -- Amarr Assault, armor tanked, laser rifle and a Alt Toon -- Caldari or Minmatar Sentinel, shield tanked or speed tanked respectively, HMG user. Edit note: I do not ever remember shields having 0 delay either. However, I don't think that should happen. Then they would be ridiculous. The current meta with how fast shields return for Cals vs everyone else works well for their skirmisher combat style philosophy,
Joseph Ridgeson WarRavens Capital Punishment. 2614	Posted - 2014.11.18 04:07:00 - [28] - Quote The primary weapon of the primary Shield Tankers has a huge delay meaning that the weaker defense doctrine generally gets hits first before able to hit back. The native repair of Shields allows the user to heavily stack Extenders and not worry about Rechargers. This is not so for Armor. This means that a Shield user saves SP if they do not want to use Rechargers/Regulators. However, on the flip side, Rechargers/Regulators are separate skills so Armor tanking only requires 3 skills to Shield tanking's 4. "This is B.S! This is B.S! I paid money! Cash money, dollars money, cash money!"
Meeko Fent Kirkinen Risk Control Caldari State 2092	Posted - 2014.11.18 05:30:00 - [29] - Quote PURE Shield ****. Too low HP to be anything other then sniper or scout. And if you're a sniper, you're prolly going to want damage mods, which take up highs along with shield mods. PURE Armor Rather good. Armor plates provide a good buffer, with highs open to damage mods meaning some pretty packing fits available. Bricked on Shield Quite good. The natural speed of shields make the penalty to speed less felt, and get another huge boost to EHP. One of the 2 fits I run. Bricked on Armor Ehh. The small amount gained by using extenders is less then what could be gained by the damage mods. Of course armor suits DO lose a little strafing ability, but personally, unless you lie on the really bad at strafing or really good, you don't have any MAJOR difference in strafing. Why sentinels suck at strafing, scouts are great, and assaults are all kinda average at it. Because you wanted to be something you're not.
Slave of MORTE Eyniletti Rangers Minmatar Republic 82	Posted - 2014.11.18 05:35:00 - [30] - Quote Apothecary Za'ki wrote: Cavani1EE7 wrote: Go. shield for hit n run.. armor for brawl/tank.. this is why reptools for armor but non for shields.. shield tanks usually run lower total ehp but can move around faster armor tanks are higher ehp but move slower both armor and shield tanks have multiple "nemesis" weapons which do more vs a certain tank type shield is weak to- flux nades AR's SCRs SCPs lr armor is weak to CR's SMGs flays nades RRs bolt pistols mass drivers as armor gets like 2x more tank then shield it only makes sense they have more weapons which are strong against armor. Fixed Yet another slave of Mortedeamor

Meeko Fent Kirkinen Risk Control Caldari State 2092	Posted - 2014.11.18 05:37:00 - [31] - Quote Joseph Ridgeson wrote: The primary weapon of the primary Shield Tankers has a huge delay meaning that the weaker defense doctrine generally gets hits first before able to hit back. The native repair of Shields allows the user to heavily stack Extenders and not worry about Rechargers. This is not so for Armor. This means that a Shield user saves SP if they do not want to use Rechargers/Regulators. However, on the flip side, Rechargers/Regulators are separate skills so Armor tanking only requires 3 skills to Shield tanking's 4. Ehhh... That recharge is great, but the recharge I feel is a bit too long for what shield was meant to capitalize on. Taking a hit and QUICKLY topping you're health off to allow reengagement with armor guys who haven't healed all the way back already (provided they don't have logi support) I have to sacrifice my all important (and already smaller) buffer to get good recharge to capitalize on my strengths Not to say shields are in a bad way, by no means are they. But the seem to not be being used as they were designed to back when we added energizers to balance S/A Because you wanted to be something you're not.
Ghost Kaisar Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 7976	Posted - 2014.11.18 05:39:00 - [32] - Quote Shield Tanker by nature. Cover and tactical positioning/maneuvering OP PLS NERF That being said, you're history 9 times out of 10 if caught with your pants down. Shields are the best for skirmish warfare. For fighting 40-70m out in cover and flanking. Armor is best for CQC warfare. Get in close, and use that passive regen to keep the regen going, even when being hit moving cover to cover. EDIT: Fits I run: Min Assault MK.0 3x Comp Shields 1x Energizer 1x Ferroscale 1x Complex Armor Repair (Or Regulator, depending on mood) 1x Complex Shield Regulator 1x Complex Kincat 465 Shields 320 Armor Sprints at 8.77 2x Regulator gives you 2/3 delay/depleted 1x Regulator gives you 4/5 delay/depleted One of my favorite fits, well suited to quickly traversing the battlefield and flanking, with excellent regen to boot. Bullet Hell and Duct-Tape? Count me in! FA recruits get free officer BPO's. Enlist today. Must be a scrub to enter.
Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1308	Posted - 2014.11.18 06:18:00 - [33] - Quote Actually in the support and logistics thread we have recently begun talking about shield tools. If you have any input you should add it. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2466262#post2466262 Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.
Chief-Shotty WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men. 384	Posted - 2014.11.18 07:17:00 - [34] - Quote I run shield, can't stand the slow speeds and slow recovery time(given there are hives and logis but both require me to be tethered in order to keep my lifeline. I like to be free) Of course i run dual complex shield regs as standard for most of my minmatar fits. Shield recovery is less than 2.5 sec and my hit and run style keeps me from getting surrounded by red dots. A reactive plate plus the native reps keeps my recovery tank even on my armor for those close shave moments. You can't armor tank without reps You can't shield tank without regs. 8-Time New Eden Mass Driver Champion Min Commando Combat Rifle and Mass Driver = FUN and Tears OMG the Tears!! :)
CUSE TOWN333 KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 1901	Posted - 2014.11.18 07:29:00 - [35] - Quote Cavani1EE7 wrote: lolromansboat. KEQ diplomat/ lolromansboat cost more then your whole village
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5100	Posted - 2014.11.18 11:04:00 - [36] - Quote Long and short? Map layouts favor armor. Armor is better in a CQC brawl and shields only really thrive on maps where you can force distance. So that's pretty much manus peak and a few random angles on line harvest. Most other maps are CQCathons. Past that there's a definitive spastic hate reaction for using regulators. They're useful even on a calsent where most people see the one second depleted delay and forget that the not-depleted delay is 3 seconds. Plus armor require less overall thought. More HP = living longer so cover becomes less important and the ability to casually slap RR/CR on a dropsuit means that there are no real holes in the plan. Unless you meet someone properly shield tanked using a racial armor buster... And you're using an armor killing weapon that sucks vs. Shields... WHERE IS YOUR GOD NOW??? EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Cavani1EE7 Murphys-Law General Tso's Alliance 520	Posted - 2014.11.18 15:06:00 - [37] - Quote Imo what should be done to incentivize Shield tanking a bit is: Complex Shield Extenders HP 66 > 70 Complex Shield Extenders delay penalty 7% > 6% or Complex Shield Extenders HP 66 > 75 Take a bow
Cavani1EE7 Murphys-Law General Tso's Alliance 520	Posted - 2014.11.18 15:10:00 - [38] - Quote Ghost Kaisar wrote: Shield Tanker by nature. Cover and tactical positioning/maneuvering OP PLS NERF That being said, you're history 9 times out of 10 if caught with your pants down. Shields are the best for skirmish warfare. For fighting 40-70m out in cover and flanking. Armor is best for CQC warfare. Get in close, and use that passive regen to keep the regen going, even when being hit moving cover to cover. EDIT: Fits I run: Min Assault MK.0 3x Comp Shields 1x Energizer 1x Ferroscale 1x Complex Armor Repair (Or Regulator, depending on mood) 1x Complex Shield Regulator 1x Complex Kincat 465 Shields 320 Armor Sprints at 8.77 2x Regulator gives you 2/3 delay/depleted 1x Regulator gives you 4/5 delay/depleted One of my favorite fits, well suited to quickly traversing the battlefield and flanking, with excellent regen to boot. That is pretty much the main advantage Armor Tankers (with rep modules in this case) have, being able to regen their HP with totally 0 delay and even while being shot. Take a bow
Kalante Schiffer Ancient Exiles. 820	Posted - 2014.11.18 15:21:00 - [39] - Quote Armor tanking since october 2013. Using an armor suit is so much better on any other way because you get to keep health and add one damage mod. As the secondary health in gallente which are shields i do not have to worry if they go down because they regenerate back where as in a caldari you regain back your primary health but you lost your secondary health unless you have a compact nanohive, and you cant put a damage mod. overall gallente = more health and more power. caldari = less health and less power. The only thing that has going for it is that Caldari scout strafe. PC slayer of gods.
KING CHECKMATE Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 5903	Posted - 2014.11.18 15:22:00 - [40] - Quote Cavani1EE7 wrote: Go. Dual tanking. I win The best Damage mod is a HEADSHOT....



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