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Shield Tanking vs Armor Tanking

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Cavani1EE7 Murphys-Law General Tso's Alliance 511	Posted - 2014.11.17 22:01:00 - [1] - Quote Go. Take a bow
Jacques Cayton II Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 1098	Posted - 2014.11.17 22:03:00 - [2] - Quote Rep tool rep hives nough said We fight for the future of the State not our personal goals
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 14723	Posted - 2014.11.17 22:04:00 - [3] - Quote Madrugar lack of fitting space....... and passive reps. Shield HAV take the cake every time. "HeGÇÖs sorry. ThatGÇÖs his sorry faceGÇª. Just keep quiet for now and maybe you'll get through this." -Kador Ouryon
Cavani1EE7 Murphys-Law General Tso's Alliance 511	Posted - 2014.11.17 22:05:00 - [4] - Quote Armor tanking Far higher HP Less PG/CPU usage Less slots usage Is in the low slots, so you can fit damage mods in the highs = Higher damage Take a bow
Zatara Rought Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4631	Posted - 2014.11.17 22:11:00 - [5] - Quote You almost always recover shields faster than armor (not counting rep tools or hives)...and because shields end up having lower EHP you also end up getting back to full shields faster. (lol) now imagine if all shield suits were balanced so that you could only get 70% of an armor suits total EHP. But you had a 1 second delay overall till your shield bgan recharging. B3RT > PFBHz > TEAM > MHPD > IMPS > FA They call me ~Princess Zatata~ Skype: Zatara.Rought Twitter: @ZataraRought
Zatara Rought Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4631	Posted - 2014.11.17 22:13:00 - [6] - Quote you get to damp without damaging your 'main' tank. Relevant once e-war for mediums is a thing soon(TM) B3RT > PFBHz > TEAM > MHPD > IMPS > FA They call me ~Princess Zatata~ Skype: Zatara.Rought Twitter: @ZataraRought
Cavani1EE7 Murphys-Law General Tso's Alliance 511	Posted - 2014.11.17 22:14:00 - [7] - Quote Zatara Rought wrote: You almost always recover shields faster than armor (not counting rep tools or hives)...and because shields end up having lower EHP you also end up getting back to full shields faster. (lol) now imagine if all shield suits were balanced so that you could only get 70% of an armor suits total EHP. But you had a 1 second delay overall till your shield bgan recharging. That's meaningless if the delay stops even if you lose 1 single goddamn hp though. Take a bow
Cavani1EE7 Murphys-Law General Tso's Alliance 512	Posted - 2014.11.17 22:25:00 - [8] - Quote Zatara Rought wrote: you get to damp without damaging your 'main' tank. Relevant once e-war for mediums is a thing soon(TM) Valid point. I have one comp. dampener in my CalAssault wish fit already. Take a bow
Bojo The Mighty Spaceman Drug Cartel-Uno 5156	Posted - 2014.11.17 22:28:00 - [9] - Quote My question is where is the unreliability of shields that it's ascribed to have? Bojo For CPM
Zatara Rought Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4631	Posted - 2014.11.17 22:29:00 - [10] - Quote Cavani1EE7 wrote: That's meaningless if the regen stops even if you lose 1 single goddamn hp though. With dust's hit detection and all the cover to give yourself 1 sec? Maybe...then give it 0 delay? B3RT > PFBHz > TEAM > MHPD > IMPS > FA They call me ~Princess Zatata~ Skype: Zatara.Rought Twitter: @ZataraRought

shaman oga The Dunwich Horror 3222	Posted - 2014.11.17 22:29:00 - [11] - Quote Luck tank.
Bojo The Mighty Spaceman Drug Cartel-Uno 5157	Posted - 2014.11.17 22:31:00 - [12] - Quote shaman oga wrote: Luck tank. Thank god I have Flucks grenades Bojo For CPM
DeadlyAztec11 Ostrakon Agency 5976	Posted - 2014.11.17 22:39:00 - [13] - Quote Ferroscale and two reps. The best of both worlds. All the lightness and recovery of shields but the shear high amount of HP like armor. Put your flags up in the sky. And wave them side to side. Show the world where you're from. Show the world we are one.
Vulpes Dolosus Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2578	Posted - 2014.11.17 22:40:00 - [14] - Quote Zatara Rought wrote: Cavani1EE7 wrote: That's meaningless if the regen stops even if you lose 1 single goddamn hp though. With dust's hit detection and all the cover to give yourself 1 sec? Maybe...then give it 0 delay? Yeah, because that's working so well with the Cal heavy's 1sec delay. And even if it wasn't bugged, then that's mean constant regen which some may say is a little OP. (Though a mod that reduces both delay time to zero and regen amount would be interesting...) Dust is there! I was real! Dear diary, Rattati senpai noticed me today~
Mexxx Dust-Slayer Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 122	Posted - 2014.11.17 22:43:00 - [15] - Quote The weapons that are primarily anti-shield hurt, from the 100 shot per bullet ScrR to the higher DPS rifle all against the lower HP tank.
Mike Ox Bigger KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 443	Posted - 2014.11.17 22:45:00 - [16] - Quote Zatara Rought wrote: you get to damp without damaging your 'main' tank. Relevant once e-war for mediums is a thing soon(TM) This is why the Caldari suits and Minmatar suits are my favorites. I been trying to tell people about damps on medium frames forever now and everyone laughs and thinks I'm crazy but ewar is a seriously powerful tool and ducking all advanced scanners and non scouts is pretty crucial. I play a lot of solo, it makes a big difference to me. Really you can fit them on all suits just add a shield to compensate the missing armor but aesthetically it goes better on shield tank suits as they they come with more CPU that is except for the Cal Logi... BTW now that Logislayer isn't really a thing anymore and we fix the Cal Logi?!?
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 1940	Posted - 2014.11.17 23:58:00 - [17] - Quote Cavani1EE7 wrote: Go. shield for hit n run.. armor for brawl/tank.. this is why reptools for armor but non for shields.. shield tanks usually run lower total ehp but can move around faster armor tanks are higher ehp but move slower both armor and shield tanks have multiple "nemesis" weapons which do more vs a certain tank type shield is weak to- flux nades AR's SCRs SCPs armor is weak to CR's SMGs flays nades RRs bolt pistols mass drivers as armor gets like 2x more tank then shield it only makes sense they have more weapons which are strong against armor. [[LogiBro ADV/PRO]] [[Level 1 Forum Warrior]] [[Level 2 Forum Pariah]] All Hail our Lord and Savior CCP RATTATTI o7
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 1940	Posted - 2014.11.17 23:59:00 - [18] - Quote Zatara Rought wrote: Cavani1EE7 wrote: That's meaningless if the regen stops even if you lose 1 single goddamn hp though. With dust's hit detection and all the cover to give yourself 1 sec? Maybe...then give it 0 delay? shields used to have 0 delay.. as a CPM you should know this.. 0delay + cal scout == godmode. #NeverAgain! [[LogiBro ADV/PRO]] [[Level 1 Forum Warrior]] [[Level 2 Forum Pariah]] All Hail our Lord and Savior CCP RATTATTI o7
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 1537	Posted - 2014.11.18 00:19:00 - [19] - Quote Those Shield Hardeners make Caldari Scouts so OP, -40% damage, please nerf! Ahem, Dear Cavani, could you please specify in both the thread name and original post whether you want to discuss Dropsuit tanking methods OR vehicle tanking methods. People would enjoy Dust a lot more if they accepted the fact that EVERYTHING is subject to change
Cavani1EE7 Murphys-Law General Tso's Alliance 514	Posted - 2014.11.18 00:22:00 - [20] - Quote Apothecary Za'ki wrote: Cavani1EE7 wrote: Go. shield for hit n run.. armor for brawl/tank.. this is why reptools for armor but non for shields.. shield tanks usually run lower total ehp but can move around faster armor tanks are higher ehp but move slower both armor and shield tanks have multiple "nemesis" weapons which do more vs a certain tank type shield is weak to- flux nades AR's SCRs SCPs armor is weak to CR's SMGs flays nades RRs bolt pistols mass drivers as armor gets like 2x more tank then shield it only makes sense they have more weapons which are strong against armor. Just lol @ that statement. Anytime I'll see your name in a thread, I'm not gonna read what you have to say. Plus youdidn't even mention the Shotgun, the ion pistol, the laser and you mentioned the flaycock? lol. And than if you fit ferroscales and reactives and put a kin cat, you still have a godmode aHP with 8m/s+ speed; pretty much what a lot of galassaults and amarr are doing. Take a bow

Cavani1EE7 Murphys-Law General Tso's Alliance 514	Posted - 2014.11.18 00:24:00 - [21] - Quote KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: Those Shield Hardeners make Caldari Scouts so OP, -40% damage, please nerf! Ahem, Dear Cavani, could you please specify in both the thread name and original post whether you want to discuss Dropsuit tanking methods OR vehicle tanking methods. lolvehicles. that's all. But k I will. Take a bow
Zatara Rought Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4639	Posted - 2014.11.18 00:24:00 - [22] - Quote Apothecary Za'ki wrote: Zatara Rought wrote: Cavani1EE7 wrote: That's meaningless if the regen stops even if you lose 1 single goddamn hp though. With dust's hit detection and all the cover to give yourself 1 sec? Maybe...then give it 0 delay? shields used to have 0 delay.. as a CPM you should know this.. 0delay + cal scout == godmode. #NeverAgain! OMG over and over you prove to be a no nothing ****. Please show me where Cal scouts had a 0 delay? EVER You gotta be the stupidest person I've run into since Buster Friendly and 8213 and any of his alts (anyone in the corp Grade No.2, checkles brown...etc) I'm serious man..you're killing me with the stupidity. B3RT > PFBHz > TEAM > MHPD > IMPS > FA They call me ~Princess Zatata~ Skype: Zatara.Rought Twitter: @ZataraRought
Mex-0 158	Posted - 2014.11.18 00:25:00 - [23] - Quote Armor tanking allows you to have over 1000 armor on an amarr assault. If you have a few Logis on you, it can be really OP. MINJA
Jacques Cayton II Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 1099	Posted - 2014.11.18 00:27:00 - [24] - Quote Cavani1EE7 wrote: Zatara Rought wrote: You almost always recover shields faster than armor (not counting rep tools or hives)...and because shields end up having lower EHP you also end up getting back to full shields faster. (lol) now imagine if all shield suits were balanced so that you could only get 70% of an armor suits total EHP. But you had a 1 second delay overall till your shield bgan recharging. That's meaningless if the regen stops even if you lose 1 single goddamn hp though. So true We fight for the future of the State not our personal goals
Jacques Cayton II Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 1099	Posted - 2014.11.18 00:29:00 - [25] - Quote Apothecary Za'ki wrote: Cavani1EE7 wrote: Go. shield for hit n run.. armor for brawl/tank.. this is why reptools for armor but non for shields.. shield tanks usually run lower total ehp but can move around faster armor tanks are higher ehp but move slower both armor and shield tanks have multiple "nemesis" weapons which do more vs a certain tank type shield is weak to- flux nades AR's SCRs SCPs armor is weak to CR's SMGs flays nades RRs bolt pistols mass drivers as armor gets like 2x more tank then shield it only makes sense they have more weapons which are strong against armor. You know in eve Caldar tank shields not hit and run We fight for the future of the State not our personal goals
Benjamin Ciscko Fatal Absolution 3476	Posted - 2014.11.18 02:14:00 - [26] - Quote Damps Speed Strafe Regen (This can only be achieved through the sacrifice of eHP mods which are much more necessary on shield suits than armor) Damage mods eHP reps armor rep nanos Typically have higher DPS weapons Fatal Absolution Director
Imp Smash Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 403	Posted - 2014.11.18 04:00:00 - [27] - Quote Shield Tanking potentially better than Armor tanking. Currently Armor tanking > shield. Conceptually they are fairly even but in practice not quite so. Legend: + = an advantage - = a disadvantage +/- neither an advantage nor disadvantage Armor: +More Hp (FerroScale vs Shield Extenders) at no movement loss versions +Constant Regen +Repairable via Hive or Rep Tool -Inconsequetial native regen -For higher regen HP slot must be sacrificed +/- Varieties exist (MOAR HP for a speed penalty or MOAR native regen for a speed penalty) Shield +SIGNIFICANTLY Higher Native Regen + No slot usage required for said high native regen + Low slot for the regulator (regen beginning faster) - Cannot be repaired - Shield HP stacking has Regen penalties - Delay before regen begins -- does not work under fire - Lower HP than comparable armor plates (FerroScale vs extenders) - For higher native regen HP slots must be sacrificed. -/+ No varieties I left out damage profiles as there are a variety of weapons that work better or worse against each. Conceptually they make sense. Shields for skirmishing, armor for sustained combat. However, the minuses behind armor are more easily mitigated than the minuses behind shields. Most of the above (with the exception of repair/regen) are limited to inherent factors. THEN add in the cost of fitting options. Shield tankers can't really fit damage mods without sacrificing HP. Armor tankers can't really fit speed mods without sacrificing HP. (or in both cases -- regen) So that further puts shield into the fast skirmisher role and armor in the sustained combat role. Again -- both of those being better at those roles are fine (creates flavor due to the different philosophies). However, when everything is said and done, I would say shields are slightly weaker than armor simply due to the penalties associated with stacking shields. The concept of high shield regen is offset by the concept of armor regenning during combat and being able to be repped. With those two different factors complementing eachother and effectively cancelling each other out, why is it that shield tankers have a regen penalty and less HP for comparable modules (Extender vs Ferroscale)? For perspective purposes I am a: Main Toon -- Amarr Assault, armor tanked, laser rifle and a Alt Toon -- Caldari or Minmatar Sentinel, shield tanked or speed tanked respectively, HMG user. Edit note: I do not ever remember shields having 0 delay either. However, I don't think that should happen. Then they would be ridiculous. The current meta with how fast shields return for Cals vs everyone else works well for their skirmisher combat style philosophy,
Joseph Ridgeson WarRavens Capital Punishment. 2614	Posted - 2014.11.18 04:07:00 - [28] - Quote The primary weapon of the primary Shield Tankers has a huge delay meaning that the weaker defense doctrine generally gets hits first before able to hit back. The native repair of Shields allows the user to heavily stack Extenders and not worry about Rechargers. This is not so for Armor. This means that a Shield user saves SP if they do not want to use Rechargers/Regulators. However, on the flip side, Rechargers/Regulators are separate skills so Armor tanking only requires 3 skills to Shield tanking's 4. "This is B.S! This is B.S! I paid money! Cash money, dollars money, cash money!"
Meeko Fent Kirkinen Risk Control Caldari State 2092	Posted - 2014.11.18 05:30:00 - [29] - Quote PURE Shield ****. Too low HP to be anything other then sniper or scout. And if you're a sniper, you're prolly going to want damage mods, which take up highs along with shield mods. PURE Armor Rather good. Armor plates provide a good buffer, with highs open to damage mods meaning some pretty packing fits available. Bricked on Shield Quite good. The natural speed of shields make the penalty to speed less felt, and get another huge boost to EHP. One of the 2 fits I run. Bricked on Armor Ehh. The small amount gained by using extenders is less then what could be gained by the damage mods. Of course armor suits DO lose a little strafing ability, but personally, unless you lie on the really bad at strafing or really good, you don't have any MAJOR difference in strafing. Why sentinels suck at strafing, scouts are great, and assaults are all kinda average at it. Because you wanted to be something you're not.
Slave of MORTE Eyniletti Rangers Minmatar Republic 82	Posted - 2014.11.18 05:35:00 - [30] - Quote Apothecary Za'ki wrote: Cavani1EE7 wrote: Go. shield for hit n run.. armor for brawl/tank.. this is why reptools for armor but non for shields.. shield tanks usually run lower total ehp but can move around faster armor tanks are higher ehp but move slower both armor and shield tanks have multiple "nemesis" weapons which do more vs a certain tank type shield is weak to- flux nades AR's SCRs SCPs lr armor is weak to CR's SMGs flays nades RRs bolt pistols mass drivers as armor gets like 2x more tank then shield it only makes sense they have more weapons which are strong against armor. Fixed Yet another slave of Mortedeamor



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