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Feelings on the new and improved RR?

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Miokai Zahou WarRavens Capital Punishment. 409	Posted - 2014.11.14 10:05:00 - [31] - Quote Zatara Rought wrote: Anyone else got feedback?! :D As a Cal assault user i think it's a silly change due to the fact that there is no bonus on the suit that reduces hip fir and charge up time. Noob isn't really a status, it's the online equivalent of a 5-year old calling you a poopy fart head.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 4988	Posted - 2014.11.14 10:56:00 - [32] - Quote Miokai Zahou wrote: Zatara Rought wrote: Anyone else got feedback?! :D As a Cal assault user i think it's a silly change due to the fact that there is no bonus on the suit that reduces hip fir and charge up time. Herein lies one of the reasons why the weapon is oversaturated. Armor is the favored meta. RR is effective vs armor at long range. Therefore an amarr or gallente assault or logi will gain more utility from the rail line. Reload bonus? If it takes less than two seconds reload speed is irrelevant. Really the only three weapons where reload speed is a major concern is the HMG, PLC and MD. PERHAPS... If caldari suits were bonused for charge time and kick we would see more caldari suits rocking rails. This is a major problem with TTK slowly ticking up. With increasing due to HP creep we should very much consider bonusing assaults for making their weapons function better rather than reload speed or whatnot. An assault suit should be optimized for racial light weapons the way sentinels are optimized to carry heavy weapons. Right now the only assault set up to improve weapon performance is the amarr. The gallente bonus doesn't help much and the gallente weapons are eating ass because of range. Minmatar weapons? They get to fire a crapton more between reloads. You don't have to husband your ammo like Ebenezer scrooge pinches pennies. This is a clear advantage like the amarr heat reduction. Each in its own way equals the same bonus. More shots downrange. What if the RR PERFORMED like it did pre-fix but only in the hands of a caldari assault? That just leaves us with the gallente assault rifles. The gallente rifles have more drawbacks than advantages because the anemic range means that the rifles are rarely able to get into optimal. The breach is the only assault rifle variant tgat really shines right now. Some people swear by the burst but by and large they are a rarity. Why are people gravitating to the BAR? because it is the only rifle in the series that WORKS. Because it performs in a way FPS gamers like and are familiar with. But the gallente assault suits get no bonuses tgat allow them to employ the weapon better. Getting in range is iffy and when you're in range it's an HMG sentinel. It's either time to break the gallente meta or give the assaults the means to properly employ their weapons. Rather than a weapon bonus in the traditional sense they either need range or speed because if you can't reach your target what's the point? EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
CUSE TOWN333 KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 1869	Posted - 2014.11.14 11:56:00 - [33] - Quote Zatara Rought wrote: People complained about the hipfire kick so the charge time was doubled Feedback? Rail rifle has been useless since 4 nerfs ago. all other rifles out do it putting the RR at the bottom of the meta. KEQ diplomat/ intel /GC officer
Blueprint For Murder Immortal Guides 276	Posted - 2014.11.14 12:01:00 - [34] - Quote CUSE TOWN333 wrote: Zatara Rought wrote: People complained about the hipfire kick so the charge time was doubled Feedback? Rail rifle has been useless since 4 nerfs ago. all other rifles out do it putting the RR at the bottom of the meta. Lol this I doubt it, but perception is a funny thing. The Impossible Dream and Wizard Talk
IVIaster LUKE 733	Posted - 2014.11.14 12:05:00 - [35] - Quote I got a nice shady spot on this hill. Caldari assault=shit shields/shit weapons. Sipping tea on a hill, eating crumpets.
CUSE TOWN333 KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 1869	Posted - 2014.11.14 12:06:00 - [36] - Quote Blueprint For Murder wrote: CUSE TOWN333 wrote: Zatara Rought wrote: People complained about the hipfire kick so the charge time was doubled Feedback? Rail rifle has been useless since 4 nerfs ago. all other rifles out do it putting the RR at the bottom of the meta. Lol this I doubt it, but perception is a funny thing. do you know what meta is KEQ diplomat/ intel /GC officer
Zindorak Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 1286	Posted - 2014.11.14 12:08:00 - [37] - Quote Yas we now have a balanced Rail Rifle Pokemon master and Tekken Lord Gk0 Scout yay :)
LudiKure ninda Dead Man's Game RUST415 151	Posted - 2014.11.14 12:27:00 - [38] - Quote Zindorak wrote: Yas we now have a balanced Rail Rifle No,now we hawe a dead Rail Rifle,..at least 4 me..it horrible ( -í° -£-û -í°) `SCAN ATTEMPT PREVENTED`
NextDark Knight Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 606	Posted - 2014.11.14 12:37:00 - [39] - Quote I already posted my feedback, Short version.. different charge time depending on ADS or Hipfire. If I'm pointing down ADS I'd like my old charge time back please. With the RR doing better against armor it will always falsely appear to be better at CQC. Oh, I felt that the reload bonus was broke for a bit on the assault suit. I really use the reload bonus in my gameplay to keep constant fire downfield. Over 60+ Million SP and full proto in all Caldari Suits. No matter how hard CCP tries Dust just won't die on PS3/Xbox.
Zindorak Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 1286	Posted - 2014.11.14 12:42:00 - [40] - Quote LudiKure ninda wrote: Zindorak wrote: Yas we now have a balanced Rail Rifle No,now we hawe a dead Rail Rifle,..at least 4 me..it horrible Well atleast it isn't the OP RR that we had in Delta. It doesn't instagank me so imo its balanced Pokemon master and Tekken Lord Gk0 Scout yay :)

Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 4992	Posted - 2014.11.14 12:53:00 - [41] - Quote How the hell can an RR instagank anything? It's pretty much impossible. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
TheD1CK Dead Man's Game RUST415 1490	Posted - 2014.11.14 13:02:00 - [42] - Quote Zatara Rought wrote: Hansei Kaizen wrote: Using the RR from the hip is like grabbing a donkey by its legs and then setting its tail on fire. I love it Interesting...well the change actually reduced the hipfire kick...are you saying you would have preferred that to the doubling of the charge time? Yes, having to charge while the red dot is beginning to shoot me is a severe disadvantage... It's not like I'm firing a ScR and have a bonus to charging up .. it's a drawback... and worse than the super kick.. Mercs complaining of the kick needed to use the RR in other situations.. if you hipfire = 90% chance you miss The charge time is already leaving mercs to get shot while they ready up the RR.... And when you are running Caldari Assault - in alpha shield dmg 514 you will, die more often And to note on pre-charging it's one of the worst mechanics in game (wallhack + precharge) I would prefer kick rather than the extended charge time
TheD1CK Dead Man's Game RUST415 1490	Posted - 2014.11.14 13:05:00 - [43] - Quote NextDark Knight wrote: I already posted my feedback, Short version.. different charge time depending on ADS or Hipfire. If I'm pointing down ADS I'd like my old charge time back please. With the RR doing better against armor it will always falsely appear to be better at CQC. Oh, I felt that the reload bonus was broke for a bit on the assault suit. I really use the reload bonus in my gameplay to keep constant fire downfield. If anything... hipfire charge should be whats extended..... taking a target on in ads with increased charge time is not good
NextDark Knight Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 606	Posted - 2014.11.14 13:20:00 - [44] - Quote Zatara Rought wrote: xavier zor wrote: It is a worse solution I always switch to my SMG in close quarters when using the rail rifle, but when i see somebody and they see me within a decent range (outside SMG range) he gets 6 extra bullets (around 200hp) off me before i can shoot him? When i stop to recover, i pop my head around the crate to see him, he gets another 200hp off me before i start doing damage... I hate to say this again but...Woooooooww!!! Now let me ask a follow up...why not just precharge at those long ranges the same way it feels intuitive to do so for cqc? We don't know when they are going to pop them heads out of cover.. The old kick made it a small challenge to keep damage applied at long range. Again, Can we get comment on if it's possible to have different charge times in ADS then with Hipfire.. Like maybe the gun has a button that is pressed while in ADS to keep the spool going.. don't really matter how you justify it but would it be possible to have different charge times? Over 60+ Million SP and full proto in all Caldari Suits. No matter how hard CCP tries Dust just won't die on PS3/Xbox.
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 4791	Posted - 2014.11.14 13:30:00 - [45] - Quote Zatara Rought wrote: People complained about the hipfire kick so the charge time was doubled Feedback? In 5 - 10m engagements I am at a disadvantage, but not completely useless. At longer distances I aim down sights and mutilate folks with perfect Caldari precision. Charge time increase instead of crazy kick was a good choice. I don't use the ARR personally, but I have had a few of them pointed at me. They seem to do just fine in CQC. Now that the RR seems to be in a better place can we please examine the breach AR? My advice to you, playa...
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui VEHICLEBUSTERS Demolitions and Logistics Corp . 1394	Posted - 2014.11.14 13:32:00 - [46] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: Honestly wish that HMG's had a .6sec spoolup to balance their 700dps cqc bullet hose. Please lay off the HMG , the thing overheats quickly now when not managed properly . To me ... that's leading it to balance and it's better in that regard then previous . No more HMG tweaks , it would ruin the gun already . Now people can't stand there and give continuous fire , like it's suppose to be . Now you need to manage that gun and use your sidearm more . Doubts are like flies and should be treated as such and crushed .
Joseph Ridgeson WarRavens Capital Punishment. 2550	Posted - 2014.11.14 13:34:00 - [47] - Quote The longer charge time hurts a hell of a lot more than than the kick. The kick could be leveled out with "Short, controlled bursts" but it was still far less effective than other weapons because the kick was still pretty intense before 10 shots and .3 second delay every 2 or 3 seconds makes the Rate of Fire low enough to not be a monster in close quarters fighting while not hurting the ranges at which you would ADS, ~20+ meters. You could either get REALLY close so that your shots would all hit before the kick became uncontrollable (like Nova Knife range), you could hope to get lucky at about 5 meters, or you could burst fire. Seemed alright; still weaker than basically any Rifle other than Laser Rifle at that range but you weren't utterly screwed. The kick now is still really intense and the charge time is absolute murder. .6 seconds is actually quite a long time. Basically, if you get the drop on someone to where you start charging right as they see you, even if their reaction time is terrible they will start to fire rounds off on you. Had numerous encounters with that happening. I pull up my RR to charge to take someone out. They immediately start blasting me with the Combat or Scrambler at about 25 meters and end up winning "even though I was doing what I was supposed to do." I even had one where I was standing on a building, aimed at a guy who was not facing me, and before my charge was off he happened to turn, and managed to start firing at about the same time my charge got off. It almost feels like I am using a Charged Sniper Rifle with the delay. I still prefer "crazy kick when ADS" rather than "glacial charge time." "This is B.S! This is B.S! I paid money! Cash money, dollars money, cash money!"
postapo wastelander Wasteland Desert Rangers 658	Posted - 2014.11.14 13:37:00 - [48] - Quote Zatara Rought wrote: People complained about the hipfire kick so the charge time was doubled Feedback? Its easy RR was little op before (overperformed all rifles on long/medium/cqc) after nerf, all RR population went mental becuase their toy was nerfed and start QQ threads. I tried it and long/medium range is completely fine (helvete i basicaly went better then wit fit what i normaly using-without specsing in RR i wen 17/4 like basic matar logi). RR was meant to be used like precision auto rifle and thats it. Most of RR community used it differently and thats issue. Issue is community what dont want balanced weapon. They want weapon OP and i know if you make it that waz there will be again "rule of RR". Basicaly rifles should be this way: RoF - CR (MATARI) Versatility - AR (GALENTE) Accuracy - ScR (AMARR) Power - RR (CALDARI) And now we have it, there is need for few tweaks but that tweaks are not around RR, what is completely fine. If someone have problem with RR on cqc, he should try some sidearm or another rifle. *"Savvy"*
Blueprint For Murder Immortal Guides 276	Posted - 2014.11.14 13:43:00 - [49] - Quote CUSE TOWN333 wrote: Blueprint For Murder wrote: CUSE TOWN333 wrote: Zatara Rought wrote: People complained about the hipfire kick so the charge time was doubled Feedback? Rail rifle has been useless since 4 nerfs ago. all other rifles out do it putting the RR at the bottom of the meta. Lol this I doubt it, but perception is a funny thing. do you know what meta is Bro I spent 8 years ranking top 800k wol, was second in progression the first few months of d3, alpha/beta tested many of the mmo's that came out the last ten years, helped lead blackgate to number one and joined in on many of their pro tourneys,... but I have no idea could you explain it to me :D ? The Impossible Dream and Wizard Talk
The Master Race Immortal Guides 279	Posted - 2014.11.14 13:43:00 - [50] - Quote CUSE TOWN333 wrote: Blueprint For Murder wrote: CUSE TOWN333 wrote: Zatara Rought wrote: People complained about the hipfire kick so the charge time was doubled Feedback? Rail rifle has been useless since 4 nerfs ago. all other rifles out do it putting the RR at the bottom of the meta. Lol this I doubt it, but perception is a funny thing. do you know what meta is Bro I spent 8 years ranking top 800 wol, was second in progression the first few months of d3, alpha/beta tested many of the mmo's that came out the last ten years, helped lead blackgate to number one and joined in on many of their pro tourneys,... but I have no idea could you explain it to me :D...? The Impossible Dream and Wizard Talk

shaman oga The Dunwich Horror 3168	Posted - 2014.11.14 13:51:00 - [51] - Quote I prefer how it was before, more kick, less charge up. Join channel: FW Kickstarter More people in = more FW matches
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui VEHICLEBUSTERS Demolitions and Logistics Corp . 1394	Posted - 2014.11.14 13:54:00 - [52] - Quote All they have to do if they really care about doing anything to make this right is what Breakin and others have suggested and that's retool the Cal assault to give them bonuses that help with that gun , it's their rifle and their not even effective with it because of said changes and that's just not going to work . This would be a way to help Caldari loyalist and those who are faithful to that weapon . It's only right to give the Cal Assault a kick reduction and decreased charge time bonus , you know ... something that would actually help that role out and place them more in line with the bonuses of other Assault roles because the Caldari was and is the only assault that has a worthless bonus ( you could increase reload from the weapons branch of that particular weapon ) and now it's even more useless with the changes made to that gun . It would be nice to have a weapon that actually functions properly when you invest in that particular role . It should behave like the prenerf RR at level 5 Assault . Easy fix and you won't have to do anything to the current setup for the gun and it would give the Cal Assault a useful bonus and help to make them more competitive . You wanna know what to do .?. do this and you will kill all the QQ and kill the uselessness of the Cal assault while using their own racial weapon . Doubts are like flies and should be treated as such and crushed .
Joseph Ridgeson WarRavens Capital Punishment. 2550	Posted - 2014.11.14 13:56:00 - [53] - Quote Nerfing the Rail Rifle so the Caldari Assault bonus can be relevant is robbing Peter to pay Paul though. "This is B.S! This is B.S! I paid money! Cash money, dollars money, cash money!"
Jack 3enimble Vengeance Unbound RISE of LEGION 471	Posted - 2014.11.14 14:03:00 - [54] - Quote Full time RR user here with all Cal suits proto. My 2 ISK. ARR The ARR is decent at CQC and definitely the better choice over the the RR. Problem is that the ARR still gets outperformed by the ACR in both CQC and at range. This is because of the kick build up of the ARR and the charge time. The kick build up makes you inaccurate at sustained fire and the charge up time means death if a ACR gets the drop on you. Now something I'll get flamed for but will suggest it anyway. What if there was a skill for the RR that reduces charge up time or sharpshooter to make it more viable CQC and compete with the CQC monsters? I mean those have sharpshooter skill too, it seems fair to those users that the RR gets a extra sp sink for better CQC ability. IMHO every faction should have a ranged light weapon and CQC light weapon RR Plain and simple if the enemy doesn't see you the charge up time doesnt matter. Now with the kick it makes you inaccurate in sustained fire. Also with the charge up if someone runs up to you and bursts his shots you're dead because you cannot burst the RR. The charge up time kills you at medium range. it's only viable in certain situations. I will test it out more and give some better feedback
postapo wastelander Wasteland Desert Rangers 658	Posted - 2014.11.14 14:16:00 - [55] - Quote Jack 3enimble wrote: Full time RR user here with all Cal suits proto. My 2 ISK. ARR The ARR is decent at CQC and definitely the better choice over the the RR. Problem is that the ARR still gets outperformed by the ACR in both CQC and at range. This is because of the kick build up of the ARR and the charge time. The kick build up makes you inaccurate at sustained fire and the charge up time means death if a ACR gets the drop on you. Now something I'll get flamed for but will suggest it anyway. What if there was a skill for the RR that reduces charge up time or sharpshooter to make it more viable CQC and compete with the CQC monsters? I mean those have sharpshooter skill too, it seems fair to those users that the RR gets a extra sp sink for better CQC ability. IMHO every faction should have a ranged light weapon and CQC light weapon RR Plain and simple if the enemy doesn't see you the charge up time doesnt matter. Now with the kick it makes you inaccurate in sustained fire. Also with the charge up if someone runs up to you and bursts his shots you're dead because you cannot burst the RR. The charge up time kills you at medium range. it's only viable in certain situations. I will test it out more and give some better feedback Just take a look on the other side ACR matching this because RoF, nothing else. If you put RoF of ARR up, you will have OP beast and if you make it with lower damage you will basicaly have ACR on steroids (BYE BYE RACIAL VERSATILITY AROUND RIFLES). Sharpshooter similar problem, with its damage and implemented sharpshooter again you have OP weapon from ARR again. Because ARR core is meant to be "slower damage powerhouse". Just take a look on damages. How i told upper: RoF - CR (MATARI - Hybrid killer) Versatility - AR (GALENTE - Hybrid killer) Accuracy - ScR (AMARR - Shield killer) Power - RR (CALDARI - Armor killer) And now we have it, there is need for few tweaks but that tweaks are not around RR, what is completely fine. If someone have problem with RR on cqc, he should try some sidearm or another rifle. X x X x X about RR, yup basicaly same story what cpl. Dwayne Hicks told us once. *"Savvy"*
postapo wastelander Wasteland Desert Rangers 659	Posted - 2014.11.14 14:47:00 - [56] - Quote Zatara Rought wrote: People complained about the hipfire kick so the charge time was doubled Feedback? Oki tried it right now and behaviour of that rifle is really bad. What was that before great in long2medium range and bad on cqc was balance. This was thing what (in my eyes broke weapon). Just bring back kick like mule version, this "doubletime charge"its like.. honestly it makes RR crappy *"Savvy"*
Aramis Madrigal Bloodline Rebellion Capital Punishment. 312	Posted - 2014.11.14 15:11:00 - [57] - Quote I use the RR a fair amount and I preferred the additional kick to the increased spool time. If I'm using the RR, it's because I want to be able to take out targets as they move from one covered position to the next, at long range. The increased spool time makes this a bit harder and closes the window of opportunity, particularly if your target is fast. I'd rather have to swap out to my SMG for cqc then have the long range effectiveness of the RR diminished. -Aramis
Aramis Madrigal Bloodline Rebellion Capital Punishment. 312	Posted - 2014.11.14 15:23:00 - [58] - Quote Also, the "feel" of the spool up time is just wrong. As creatures forced to live (~100ms) in the proximal past with the swiftest reaction to visual stimuli being ~150ms, .3 seconds places us just about at the bound of what appears "immediate". That is to say it feels like pressing the trigger is coupled with the weapon firing with a very slight delay. Increasing the spool up time adds an unsettling moment where you (rightly) feel as though you could be doing something else. -Aramis P.S. can you tell I just attended a colloquium on the neural correlates of interval timing?
postapo wastelander Wasteland Desert Rangers 660	Posted - 2014.11.14 15:23:00 - [59] - Quote Aramis Madrigal wrote: I use the RR a fair amount and I preferred the additional kick to the increased spool time. If I'm using the RR, it's because I want to be able to take out targets as they move from one covered position to the next, at long range. The increased spool time makes this a bit harder and closes the window of opportunity, particularly if your target is fast. I'd rather have to swap out to my SMG for cqc then have the long range effectiveness of the RR diminished. -Aramis Defo agree here, "kick-like-mule" balance was actually good one. RR stayed in place where it outshines other rifles (like long2medium range precision autorifle) and was balanced by mediocre cqc. But now, after that "doubletime fix" it seems like really broken rifle, behavior is wierd and whole that thingie basicaly dont have that sturdy feel anymore. I tried RR every time when it was augmented or tinked and this fix, oh boyo additional kick was real balance, but this is just broken mechanism. But helvete all that just because RR community what wanted to have RR OP again, good job boyos you broke your own weapon. Its just, hell additional kick on hopfiring should be that last touch, this is just funny like hell. From final balance again to state of broken. Honestly, RR should be good long2medium range rifle and that was with that "hipfire kick" fix. What was implemented now just make RR wierd nothing else, if someone fromm CCP listening just redo it back to "kick like mule" state and everythignie will be fine. *"Savvy"*
Jacques Cayton II Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 1068	Posted - 2014.11.14 15:25:00 - [60] - Quote Zatara Rought wrote: People complained about the hipfire kick so the charge time was doubled Feedback? It scks. Try the Militia rr and then see the thing for it really is. A pile of poop We fight for the future of the State not our personal goals



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