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Kaeru Nayiri
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
154
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Posted - 2014.11.11 17:11:00 -
[1] - Quote
THE GOAL: To discourage the use of Remote Explosives used as a "Grenade" without hurting their intended purpose as choke point and null cannon defence.
IDEA: Switch proximity and remote explosive damage stats. Then switch their max active/carried stats.
REASONING: If remotes did less damage a piece, but more could be carried/placed, heavies would not die to a single remote being tossed into their midst. But 2 remotes in a choke point could still kill the people running through. Setting up traps could mean placing more remotes at a time and achieving the same results while tossing them into live groups would be less effective because heavies and even some medium suits could survive a single remote.
For proximities, the idea is just to reduce the number of them but increase their power. As an explosive meant for vehicles it makes no sense that they are weaker than the anti-infantry version. With them being stronger, reducing the number of actives becomes necessary so that the same amount of damage can be achieved per trap (stacked all proximity explosives together).
OPTIONAL ADDITION: Buff grenades so that people don't need to use remotes as grenades. Seriously. Flux seems to be the only thing people run anymore. |
Kaeru Nayiri
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
160
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Posted - 2014.11.12 18:14:00 -
[2] - Quote
thoughts? |
el OPERATOR
Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance
455
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Posted - 2014.11.12 22:20:00 -
[3] - Quote
I lile the damage swapping but PEs quantity-wise are woefully inadequate for the role they should play on the battlefield. They literally do not explode unless actually driven over (makes the name "Proximity" mine rather misleading) and too few of any one type are deployable simultaneously, making skilling all of them and throwing all of them out required to create an explosive vehicle barrier that sets off an alarm to approaching vehicles , half the time doesn't detect the vehicles until they've passed OR only does an inconsequential amount of damage.
I trap a lot and have always hated the weak mines we have here. If it wasn't neccessary to do sometimes I wouldn't do it ever. Just like I'm sure the vast majority of players.
Open-Beta Vet.
Drunk Night Tree Burner.
This is my Main and Original.
DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
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Varoth Drac
Vengeance Unbound RISE of LEGION
339
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Posted - 2014.11.12 22:26:00 -
[4] - Quote
I fail to see a problem with throwing an RE at a heavy and blowing them up. |
Kaeru Nayiri
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
164
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Posted - 2014.11.12 22:28:00 -
[5] - Quote
Perhaps it could be taken further and their quantities limited even more but their damage placed above current remotes? Alternatively, if the splash was bigger, they could still damage a vehicle that is speeding off even if they were set off "late".
This is just an idea, the final stats for both remotes could be fine tuned to make it work best for both intended roles. |
True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
14507
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Posted - 2014.11.12 22:33:00 -
[6] - Quote
Kaeru Nayiri wrote:THE GOAL: To discourage the use of Remote Explosives used as a "Grenade" without hurting their intended purpose as choke point and null cannon defence.
IDEA: Switch proximity and remote explosive damage stats. Then switch their max active/carried stats.
REASONING: If remotes did less damage a piece, but more could be carried/placed, heavies would not die to a single remote being tossed into their midst. But 2 remotes in a choke point could still kill the people running through. Setting up traps could mean placing more remotes at a time and achieving the same results while tossing them into live groups would be less effective because heavies and even some medium suits could survive a single remote.
For proximities, the idea is just to reduce the number of them but increase their power. As an explosive meant for vehicles it makes no sense that they are weaker than the anti-infantry version. With them being stronger, reducing the number of actives becomes necessary so that the same amount of damage can be achieved per trap (stacked all proximity explosives together).
OPTIONAL ADDITION: Buff grenades so that people don't need to use remotes as grenades. Seriously. Flux seems to be the only thing people run anymore.
More over the Less Damage or Max Applied reduces the effectiveness of the broken plague of Jihad Jeeps against the possible reintroduction of Marauder HAV.
"HeGÇÖs sorry. ThatGÇÖs his sorry faceGǪ. Just keep quiet for now and maybe you'll get through this."
-Kador Ouryon
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Kaeru Nayiri
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
164
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Posted - 2014.11.12 22:35:00 -
[7] - Quote
Varoth Drac wrote:I fail to see a problem with throwing an RE at a heavy and blowing them up.
You are right that there is no problem with throwing an RE at a heavy and blowing him up. The problem is that this tactic is too effective compared to other forms of attack. The remote should not full fill the role of a grenade.
With this idea you could still throw multiple REs in a room and set them off, if you were hidden on an upper ledge or something like that. However you would not be able to run into a group of people, dropping a remote in their midst and set it off to clear the ENTIRE room. With the damage of remotes and proxies switched, you would only kill basic mediums and scouts with this tactic.
With more carried/more active, you could still set up deadly traps OR clear rooms, if they fail to see REs being dropped down from the ceiling in time. |
Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
4927
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Posted - 2014.11.12 22:40:00 -
[8] - Quote
nah, the only "problem" is sentinel resists seem to not work.
I'm content to suck it up (in my quafe freefits) until CCP adjusts the sentinel spam down
EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
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Gyn Wallace
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
148
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Posted - 2014.11.12 23:50:00 -
[9] - Quote
The thing I like most about this idea is that its a simple fix for two problems. It takes too long to set up a proxy field. It doesn't take long enough to set up a hugely deadly RE explosion. I acknowledge that some people are happy with their use as a super-grenade, though I think most view that more of a problem than a feature. This idea fixes both problems.
Dropping one or two proxies across a socket archway, instead of having to plant a grid, could get people away from switching into their "proxy laying suits." Having to place one, two, or three REs depending on whether you want to blow up a scout, medium, or heavy, would preserve the RE's core function while sacrificing its resemblance to some kind of super-grenade.
The Dust/Eve Isk Exchange Thread
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Apothecary Za'ki
Biomass Positive
1830
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Posted - 2014.11.12 23:59:00 -
[10] - Quote
Kaeru Nayiri wrote:thoughts? they have already been balanced and nerfed in both throwing distance and how long till you can detonate them. no further change needed...
[[LogiBro ADV/PRO]] [[Level 1 Forum Warrior]] [[Level 2 Forum Pariah]]
All Hail our Lord and Savior CCP RATTATTI o7
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
14511
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Posted - 2014.11.13 00:05:00 -
[11] - Quote
Apothecary Za'ki wrote:Kaeru Nayiri wrote:thoughts? they have already been balanced and nerfed in both throwing distance and how long till you can detonate them. no further change needed...
1750 Damage a Piece Max Deployable 5
= 8750 (*1.2 = 10500 Armour damange) applied to a 100KMPH throwaway vehicle that costs in most cases 0ISK, 0SP.
"HeGÇÖs sorry. ThatGÇÖs his sorry faceGǪ. Just keep quiet for now and maybe you'll get through this."
-Kador Ouryon
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Vitantur Nothus
Nos Nothi
152
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Posted - 2014.11.13 01:09:00 -
[12] - Quote
-1
Treat the cause, not the symptoms. |
Zindorak
Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance
1279
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Posted - 2014.11.13 01:16:00 -
[13] - Quote
No, I like having my RE's as a solid logi heavy spider tank counter
Pokemon master and Tekken Lord
Gk0 Scout yay :)
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Kaeru Nayiri
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
168
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Posted - 2014.11.13 19:41:00 -
[14] - Quote
Vitantur Nothus wrote:Treat the cause, not the symptoms.
My thoughts exactly. |
korrah silain
True Illuminate
1
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Posted - 2014.11.19 07:38:00 -
[15] - Quote
So here is my opinion on rexs as they stand: Get rid of the delay from "trigger" to detonation. I use traps quite a bit, and this makes it really had to use against infantry effectively. If your problem is their use as "grenades" and the community agrees (not sure what the meta opinion on this is yet, but I don't feel they are used as such) the easiest way to counter this is to give a larger time to activation of the explosive itself. Say 2-2.5 seconds before the explosive can't detonate. |
sir RAVEN WING
Horizons' Edge Proficiency V.
341
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Posted - 2014.11.19 08:29:00 -
[16] - Quote
Alternate solution: Placer must walk to wall or surface (within 2m) and wait 0.2s to place Remote explosive. To counter the time to place the detonation delay is cut in half. Thoughts?
"There is only one thing I regret, that is only giving one life to my state." - Viktor Revon
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Powerh8er
The Rainbow Effect
537
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Posted - 2014.11.19 08:33:00 -
[17] - Quote
Increasing the delay of the detonation should give people a fighting chance against the frisbee remotes. |
korrah silain
True Illuminate
1
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Posted - 2014.11.19 08:38:00 -
[18] - Quote
I wouldn't be opposed as long as we could negate the lag to detonation from intended trigger. May make me want to use them as roadside traps rather than ninja piles on the tanks as I do now. Sorry if this is too quick and redundant but I believe it needs mention, and may be being overlooked by the people calling for a Nerf. Also I am a bored insomniac. |
Alaika Arbosa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc.
2227
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Posted - 2014.11.19 14:18:00 -
[19] - Quote
Kaeru Nayiri wrote:thoughts? REs are fine just as they are.
How else could I sneak into an objective and clear it so my worthless blueberries can take the credit for capturing it (when all they did was cause a distraction)?
Gò¡Gê¬Gò«(Gùú_Gùó)Gò¡Gê¬Gò«
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Auris Lionesse
Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation
1228
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Posted - 2014.11.19 15:26:00 -
[20] - Quote
itd be cool to have personel proxi mines that detonate without needing to be activated as a variant. though i dont use remotes or the proxi mines so thats up to someone else.
Don't vote for iron wolf saber.
Vote for someone who will help the community i.e. anyone else.
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Silver Strike44
204
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Posted - 2014.11.19 15:33:00 -
[21] - Quote
Auris Lionesse wrote:itd be cool to have personel proxi mines that detonate without needing to be activated as a variant. though i dont use remotes or the proxi mines so thats up to someone else.
You dont use REs? Come on, RE Troll 3.
www.nickmunsonisjesus.com
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Doshneil Antaro
Dem Durrty Boyz General Tso's Alliance
297
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Posted - 2014.11.19 15:40:00 -
[22] - Quote
Kaeru Nayiri wrote:THE GOAL: To discourage the use of Remote Explosives used as a "Grenade" without hurting their intended purpose as choke point and null cannon defence.
IDEA: Switch proximity and remote explosive damage stats. Then switch their max active/carried stats.
REASONING: If remotes did less damage a piece, but more could be carried/placed, heavies would not die to a single remote being tossed into their midst. But 2 remotes in a choke point could still kill the people running through. Setting up traps could mean placing more remotes at a time and achieving the same results while tossing them into live groups would be less effective because heavies and even some medium suits could survive a single remote.
For proximities, the idea is just to reduce the number of them but increase their power. As an explosive meant for vehicles it makes no sense that they are weaker than the anti-infantry version. With them being stronger, reducing the number of actives becomes necessary so that the same amount of damage can be achieved per trap (stacked all proximity explosives together).
OPTIONAL ADDITION: Buff grenades so that people don't need to use remotes as grenades. Seriously. Flux seems to be the only thing people run anymore. I agree and have been saying all of this since REs were introduced. I 'd also make proxies magnetic so that any vehicle within 3-5 meters were getting direct hit damage. Also, vehicles should not beep, that crutch needs to go the way of the dodo.
Sage /thread
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Cavani1EE7
Murphys-Law General Tso's Alliance
524
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Posted - 2014.11.19 15:57:00 -
[23] - Quote
Kaeru Nayiri wrote:THE GOAL: To discourage the use of Remote Explosives used as a "Grenade" without hurting their intended purpose as choke point and null cannon defence.
IDEA: Switch proximity and remote explosive damage stats. Then switch their max active/carried stats.
REASONING: If remotes did less damage a piece, but more could be carried/placed, heavies would not die to a single remote being tossed into their midst. But 2 remotes in a choke point could still kill the people running through. Setting up traps could mean placing more remotes at a time and achieving the same results while tossing them into live groups would be less effective because heavies and even some medium suits could survive a single remote.
For proximities, the idea is just to reduce the number of them but increase their power. As an explosive meant for vehicles it makes no sense that they are weaker than the anti-infantry version. With them being stronger, reducing the number of actives becomes necessary so that the same amount of damage can be achieved per trap (stacked all proximity explosives together).
OPTIONAL ADDITION: Buff grenades so that people don't need to use remotes as grenades. Seriously. Flux seems to be the only thing people run anymore. NO. Nerfing damage is the worst way to fix remotes: REs are currently the only counter to heavies spam; they would still be able to kill all non-heavies suits, hence why nerfing damage sounds pretty much like a heavies buff.
As for buffing locus granades, that would actually work in diminishing freesbie REs usage.
Take a bow
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Doshneil Antaro
Dem Durrty Boyz General Tso's Alliance
297
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Posted - 2014.11.19 16:12:00 -
[24] - Quote
Cavani1EE7 wrote:Kaeru Nayiri wrote:THE GOAL: To discourage the use of Remote Explosives used as a "Grenade" without hurting their intended purpose as choke point and null cannon defence.
IDEA: Switch proximity and remote explosive damage stats. Then switch their max active/carried stats.
REASONING: If remotes did less damage a piece, but more could be carried/placed, heavies would not die to a single remote being tossed into their midst. But 2 remotes in a choke point could still kill the people running through. Setting up traps could mean placing more remotes at a time and achieving the same results while tossing them into live groups would be less effective because heavies and even some medium suits could survive a single remote.
For proximities, the idea is just to reduce the number of them but increase their power. As an explosive meant for vehicles it makes no sense that they are weaker than the anti-infantry version. With them being stronger, reducing the number of actives becomes necessary so that the same amount of damage can be achieved per trap (stacked all proximity explosives together).
OPTIONAL ADDITION: Buff grenades so that people don't need to use remotes as grenades. Seriously. Flux seems to be the only thing people run anymore. NO. Nerfing damage is the worst way to fix remotes: REs are currently the only counter to heavies spam; they would still be able to kill all non-heavies suits, hence why nerfing damage sounds pretty much like a heavies buff. As for buffing locus granades, that would actually work in diminishing freesbie REs usage. Though I feel your heavy pain,this issue has been unresolved for far too long. This fix should ideally be put in with a heavy explosive resistance being brought down dramatically . 25% VS grenades and MD does not help the issue when these are the counters to heavy spam but are in a current state of uselessness against them.
Sage /thread
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Kaeru Nayiri
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
195
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Posted - 2014.11.19 17:23:00 -
[25] - Quote
sir RAVEN WING wrote:Alternate solution: Placer must walk to wall or surface (within 2m) and wait 0.2s to place Remote explosive. To counter the time to place the detonation delay is cut in half. Thoughts?
This ruins it's use as AV, you cannot feasibly do this to a tank. |
Ku Shala
The Generals
1019
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Posted - 2014.11.19 17:24:00 -
[26] - Quote
remotes thrown pop when they hit a surface and cannot be detonated = solution
-¦a+ó a+ú-Æa+äla+ä (Caldari Specialist)
Caldari Loyalist
*Assault -Logistics-Sentinal-Scout-Commando Allround CK-0
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Kaeru Nayiri
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
195
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Posted - 2014.11.19 17:28:00 -
[27] - Quote
Remember I am not proposing a nerf to damage, just in how it is applied. If you can throw more remotes, at proxy strength, the damage dealt will be the same. The difference is it takes longer to set the trap, or drop the REs onto unsuspecting squads from on high. It also solves Proxies which I find are ridiculous. It takes an incredible amount of them to setup some sort of decent vehicle defence, sometimes in vain due to late explosion. |
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