DUST Search - Announcement:Dev Blog: Introducing APEX-Series BPO Dropsuits

Aeon Amadi wrote:

CommanderBolt wrote:

So your problem is not with an impact it will make on EVE FW but your own personal sense of accomplishment, the new fact that killing one of these BPO suits will not necessarily harm that persons wallet.

Of course farmed isk is lost but you are missing the point. They got such a boost up to begin with that isk became meaningless to them. The game will die before you could even make a dent in that isk Aeon.

So this is about you and your feelings and not any impact this may have on FW. Besides, these are not the first BPO`s or even the first time a 100% free BPO suit would have been made.

"At least with that I have the satisfaction of knowing that it cost them something" - Cost them what precisely? If someones pool of isk resource is virtually infinite then you have cost them absolutely nothing.

Lmfao, don't strawman my argument and don't assume what "my problem" is. Seriously, that is 100% the quickest way to get me to write off anything you have to say.

250,000 ISK is much more than 0 ISK and I understand your point clearly, I just don't think that it overshadows the sheer potential gain of BPO's in any way shape or form. PC ISK farming was not something that people did as an exploit, they took advantage of what CCP allowed them to do with in-game mechanics. The system itself was flawed but no-one was violating the EULA by doing it.

To elaborate, people were angry because PC entities were doing exactly what CCP expected them to do with their districts: Make ISK. That was the entire point of PC and the only unforeseen circumstance to that was District Locking, which loosely had anything to do with the ISK faucet that PC was. It stopped people from attacking their districts, yes, but the districts were going to be pumping out ISK regardless. That being said, getting all butthurt and bitter over other players utilizing their territories for the express intent and purpose that CCP had -designed- the system for is - for lack of a better word - dumber than hell.

Did they make too much? Sure. I could buy that argument. It -was- a lot of ISK. Was it necessary to remove ISK altogether? Perhaps, but it was a knee-jerk reaction to combat rampant ISK gains... Which doesn't make any sense at all because, at the time, we were also removing BPOs from the market as well.. Now that we're bringing BPO's back, why not bring back ISK generation from PC? Clearly having ISK isn't the issue, otherwise we wouldn't be giving people a "get out of jail free" card when it comes to -LOSING- their ISK.

This has absolutely -NOTHING- to do with what -MY- problems are or what -MY- personal sense of accomplishment is, specifically. It has to do with the fact that so long as at least -ONE PERSON- is in FW on Dust 514 and winning battles without any risk at all, affecting the state of FW in Eve Online, and by default Eve Online's player-based economy, I have an issue.

Cut the cord, or ditch the BPOs.

"Also I think knives are a good idea, big f**k-off shiny ones" "Guns for show, Knives for a pro"

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 8 post(s)
Syeven Reed T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K 942	Posted - 2014.11.11 12:07:00 - [31] - Quote CCP Frame wrote: The first batch is out today: Caldari 'Shogun' Sentinel Amarr 'Opus' Assault Minmatar 'Shaman' Logistics Gallente 'Serpent' Scout Gallente 'Centurion' Commando And the rest will follow over the course of next 4 weeks or so. Min scout next? SCAN ATTEMPT PREVENTED EvE - 21 Day Trial
D3LTA Blitzkrieg II 0uter.Heaven 128	Posted - 2014.11.11 12:10:00 - [32] - Quote Hope to see these suits eventually replace militia gear everywhere :D
Aeon Amadi Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 7165	Posted - 2014.11.11 12:11:00 - [33] - Quote CommanderBolt wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Kevall Longstride wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: So, it's a Prototype Pre-Fitted BPO that's lit up like the sun... Man, I hate to call a Slippery Slope argument but... Understand your reservations there but when Rattati explained that these suits could be paid for using LP points, rather than just cash, the CPM were supportive of the idea. It'll help new players giving them an option for a tougher suit and demonstrate the racial philosophies in warfare. It's also a great way to add excitement to FW as we believe it'll cause a lot of players to try and grind the LP variants of the Apex class. I wouldn't care if we weren't directly connected to Eve Online via FW and PC. Dust 514 is on a closed-off economy with no player based interaction, so I'm not worried about johnny nobody running around in his riskless investment because it's not exactly harming anything. On the other hand, a bunch of people running around in Pre-fitted Prototype BPOs in FW making a direct impact on the state of FW in Eve Online bothers the ever living ** out of me. Talk about making a big fuss over nothing. So you are bothered about some standard gear fit bpo proto suits but you were not bothered about the billions upon billions of isk generated in PC farming of old that can keep certain individuals in proto for the rest of the time this game is around? Maybe you were bothered. All I am saying is this wont suddenly change the outcome of anything that has not already happened Aeon. Can you show evidence as to the consistency of that logic? That farmed PC ISK is somehow not lost whenever the person gets killed in battle? Farmed ISK or not they were still losing something whenever you blew their head off with a shotgun. That's not the case here in any sense of the word. I'd take PC ISK farming over BPOs any day. At least with that I have the satisfaction of knowing that it cost them something and further more PC ISK Farming is no longer an issue since it got removed (completely, despite my protests that it would remove incentive to even going into PC) whereas these BPOs seem to be ever on the rise. Long-Term Roadmap Question -EVERYTHING-**
CommanderBolt KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 2406	Posted - 2014.11.11 12:14:00 - [34] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: CommanderBolt wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Kevall Longstride wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: So, it's a Prototype Pre-Fitted BPO that's lit up like the sun... Man, I hate to call a Slippery Slope argument but... Understand your reservations there but when Rattati explained that these suits could be paid for using LP points, rather than just cash, the CPM were supportive of the idea. It'll help new players giving them an option for a tougher suit and demonstrate the racial philosophies in warfare. It's also a great way to add excitement to FW as we believe it'll cause a lot of players to try and grind the LP variants of the Apex class. I wouldn't care if we weren't directly connected to Eve Online via FW and PC. Dust 514 is on a closed-off economy with no player based interaction, so I'm not worried about johnny nobody running around in his riskless investment because it's not exactly harming anything. On the other hand, a bunch of people running around in Pre-fitted Prototype BPOs in FW making a direct impact on the state of FW in Eve Online bothers the ever living ** out of me. Talk about making a big fuss over nothing. So you are bothered about some standard gear fit bpo proto suits but you were not bothered about the billions upon billions of isk generated in PC farming of old that can keep certain individuals in proto for the rest of the time this game is around? Maybe you were bothered. All I am saying is this wont suddenly change the outcome of anything that has not already happened Aeon. Can you show evidence as to the consistency of that logic? That farmed PC ISK is somehow not lost whenever the person gets killed in battle? Farmed ISK or not they were still losing something whenever you blew their head off with a shotgun. That's not the case here in any sense of the word. I'd take PC ISK farming over BPOs any day. At least with that I have the satisfaction of knowing that it cost them something and further more PC ISK Farming is no longer an issue since it got removed (completely, despite my protests that it would remove incentive to even going into PC) whereas these BPOs seem to be ever on the rise. So your problem is not with an impact it will make on EVE FW but your own personal sense of accomplishment, the new fact that killing one of these BPO suits will not necessarily harm that persons wallet. Of course farmed isk is lost but you are missing the point. They got such a boost up to begin with that isk became meaningless to them. The game will die before you could even make a dent in that isk Aeon. So this is about you and your feelings and not any impact this may have on FW. "Also I think knives are a good idea, big fk-off shiny ones" "Guns for show, Knives for a pro" MY LIFE FOR AIUR!
Mexxx Dust-Slayer Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 78	Posted - 2014.11.11 12:28:00 - [35] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: We are releasing a handful now, one to test the waters (and bugs), so one per faction, two for one for a total of 5. The other ones will be out soon enough. I'd help you with this testing if the ones I wanted were there.
Aeon Amadi Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 7165	Posted - 2014.11.11 12:32:00 - [36] - Quote CommanderBolt wrote: So your problem is not with an impact it will make on EVE FW but your own personal sense of accomplishment, the new fact that killing one of these BPO suits will not necessarily harm that persons wallet. Of course farmed isk is lost but you are missing the point. They got such a boost up to begin with that isk became meaningless to them. The game will die before you could even make a dent in that isk Aeon. So this is about you and your feelings and not any impact this may have on FW. Besides, these are not the first BPO`s or even the first time a 100% free BPO suit would have been made. "At least with that I have the satisfaction of knowing that it cost them something" - Cost them what precisely? If someones pool of isk resource is virtually infinite then you have cost them absolutely nothing. Lmfao, don't strawman my argument and don't assume what "my problem" is. Seriously, that is 100% the quickest way to get me to write off anything you have to say. 250,000 ISK is much more than 0 ISK and I understand your point clearly, I just don't think that it overshadows the sheer potential gain of BPO's in any way shape or form. PC ISK farming was not something that people did as an exploit, they took advantage of what CCP allowed them to do with in-game mechanics. The system itself was flawed but no-one was violating the EULA by doing it. To elaborate, people were angry because PC entities were doing exactly what CCP expected them to do with their districts: Make ISK. That was the entire point of PC and the only unforeseen circumstance to that was District Locking, which loosely had anything to do with the ISK faucet that PC was. It stopped people from attacking their districts, yes, but the districts were going to be pumping out ISK regardless. That being said, getting all butthurt and bitter over other players utilizing their territories for the express intent and purpose that CCP had -designed- the system for is - for lack of a better word - dumber than hell. Did they make too much? Sure. I could buy that argument. It -was- a lot of ISK. Was it necessary to remove ISK altogether? Perhaps, but it was a knee-jerk reaction to combat rampant ISK gains... Which doesn't make any sense at all because, at the time, we were also removing BPOs from the market as well.. Now that we're bringing BPO's back, why not bring back ISK generation from PC? Clearly having ISK isn't the issue, otherwise we wouldn't be giving people a "get out of jail free" card when it comes to -LOSING- their ISK. This has absolutely -NOTHING- to do with what -MY- problems are or what -MY- personal sense of accomplishment is. It has to do with the fact that so long as at least -ONE PERSON- is in FW on Dust 514 and winning battles without any risk at all, affecting the state of FW in Eve Online, and by default Eve Online's player-based economy, I have an issue. Cut the cord, or ditch the BPOs. Long-Term Roadmap Question -EVERYTHING-
Francois Sanchez Prima Gallicus 135	Posted - 2014.11.11 12:35:00 - [37] - Quote Nice, but still no FW running
Aoena Rays Bragian Order Amarr Empire 530	Posted - 2014.11.11 12:41:00 - [38] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Cut the cord, or ditch the BPOs. Cut the crap and enjoy the game sounds better to me? Holy walls of text batman, you two are too emotional over this. Stop with walls of text :D Story of your life
CommanderBolt KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 2408	Posted - 2014.11.11 12:50:00 - [39] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: CommanderBolt wrote: So your problem is not with an impact it will make on EVE FW but your own personal sense of accomplishment, the new fact that killing one of these BPO suits will not necessarily harm that persons wallet. Of course farmed isk is lost but you are missing the point. They got such a boost up to begin with that isk became meaningless to them. The game will die before you could even make a dent in that isk Aeon. So this is about you and your feelings and not any impact this may have on FW. Besides, these are not the first BPO`s or even the first time a 100% free BPO suit would have been made. "At least with that I have the satisfaction of knowing that it cost them something" - Cost them what precisely? If someones pool of isk resource is virtually infinite then you have cost them absolutely nothing. Lmfao, don't strawman my argument and don't assume what "my problem" is. Seriously, that is 100% the quickest way to get me to write off anything you have to say. 250,000 ISK is much more than 0 ISK and I understand your point clearly, I just don't think that it overshadows the sheer potential gain of BPO's in any way shape or form. PC ISK farming was not something that people did as an exploit, they took advantage of what CCP allowed them to do with in-game mechanics. The system itself was flawed but no-one was violating the EULA by doing it. To elaborate, people were angry because PC entities were doing exactly what CCP expected them to do with their districts: Make ISK. That was the entire point of PC and the only unforeseen circumstance to that was District Locking, which loosely had anything to do with the ISK faucet that PC was. It stopped people from attacking their districts, yes, but the districts were going to be pumping out ISK regardless. That being said, getting all butthurt and bitter over other players utilizing their territories for the express intent and purpose that CCP had -designed- the system for is - for lack of a better word - dumber than hell. Did they make too much? Sure. I could buy that argument. It -was- a lot of ISK. Was it necessary to remove ISK altogether? Perhaps, but it was a knee-jerk reaction to combat rampant ISK gains... Which doesn't make any sense at all because, at the time, we were also removing BPOs from the market as well.. Now that we're bringing BPO's back, why not bring back ISK generation from PC? Clearly having ISK isn't the issue, otherwise we wouldn't be giving people a "get out of jail free" card when it comes to -LOSING- their ISK. This has absolutely -NOTHING- to do with what -MY- problems are or what -MY- personal sense of accomplishment is, specifically. It has to do with the fact that so long as at least -ONE PERSON- is in FW on Dust 514 and winning battles without any risk at all, affecting the state of FW in Eve Online, and by default Eve Online's player-based economy, I have an issue. Cut the cord, or ditch the BPOs. Dude I hear you and I agree with most of what you have said but again you have skipped over the flaw in your argument. As long as one person who has farmed isk in PC is in FW, they too may well be winning battles without any risk at all. This whole thing is utterly meaningless. FW in EVE is laughed at by most of the community by the way. Not that that changes anything but its the truth. "Also I think knives are a good idea, big f**k-off shiny ones" "Guns for show, Knives for a pro" MY LIFE FOR AIUR!
CommanderBolt KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 2408	Posted - 2014.11.11 12:52:00 - [40] - Quote Aoena Rays wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Cut the cord, or ditch the BPOs. Cut the crap and enjoy the game sounds better to me? Holy walls of text batman, you two are too emotional over this. Stop with walls of text :D IDGAF about the implications where as Aeon does. I am merely pointing out that the difference is negligible at best. "Also I think knives are a good idea, big f**k-off shiny ones" "Guns for show, Knives for a pro" MY LIFE FOR AIUR!

Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 10217	Posted - 2014.11.11 12:57:00 - [41] - Quote I must admit that I never expected ccp to be able to throw a curve ball, let alone a curve ball that then turns into a slider, at us and I mean that in a good way. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 9150	Posted - 2014.11.11 13:03:00 - [42] - Quote How can the Amarr logi not have a rep tool for its favorite pal, the Amarr sentinel? Amarr are the good guys Join "PIE Ground Control" for secure Amarr FW syncing and orbital support
CommanderBolt KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 2408	Posted - 2014.11.11 13:08:00 - [43] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: How can the Amarr logi not have a rep tool for its favorite pal, the Amarr sentinel? That's Minmatar tech.... "Also I think knives are a good idea, big f**k-off shiny ones" "Guns for show, Knives for a pro" MY LIFE FOR AIUR!
Malleus Malificorum Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 132	Posted - 2014.11.11 13:08:00 - [44] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: How can the Amarr logi not have a rep tool for its favorite pal, the Amarr sentinel? Yeah, that's kind of problematic with how slowly sentinel reps. Assaults/Commandos should carry the hives, Logi's a rep tool. Or at least they should take uplinks off min logi and put an active scanner there. CommanderBolt wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: How can the Amarr logi not have a rep tool for its favorite pal, the Amarr sentinel? That's Minmatar tech.... And yet the minmatar are using uplinks. Weep not poor children, For life is this way, Murdering beauty and passion.
wave soundE SHAKING BABIES FACTION WARFARE ALLIANCE 0	Posted - 2014.11.11 13:13:00 - [45] - Quote cries isk suit bpo! Imma rock it with pride! No wonder its isk, no customization. But what ever >The soundE of your screams is music to my ears
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 9150	Posted - 2014.11.11 13:14:00 - [46] - Quote CommanderBolt wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: How can the Amarr logi not have a rep tool for its favorite pal, the Amarr sentinel? That's Minmatar tech.... I can see that argument for weapons but not equipment as there is no racial variants for each type of equipment. Equipment fittings need to be based on practicality. Amarr are the good guys Join "PIE Ground Control" for secure Amarr FW syncing and orbital support
Kevall Longstride DUST University Ivy League 1985	Posted - 2014.11.11 13:23:00 - [47] - Quote I'll be buying the Gal commando when I get home. I have all the skills for all its components maxed out. CPM 1 member CEO of DUST University Vist dustcpm.com
ResistanceGTA D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1678	Posted - 2014.11.11 13:24:00 - [48] - Quote Guys... You can edit these suits. Once you click out of the build you can't re-edit, but you can change anything when you create the suit... I thought the suit was an as-is thing? If you find an issue and I stumble upon your thread, I will do my darnedest to get the issue known. Also, Raptors...
NextDark Knight Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 576	Posted - 2014.11.11 13:41:00 - [49] - Quote Hopefully these suits are restricted to only running in Faction games. Over 60+ Million SP and full proto in all Caldari Suits. No matter how hard CCP tries Dust just won't die on PS3/Xbox.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 10217	Posted - 2014.11.11 13:53:00 - [50] - Quote ResistanceGTA wrote: Guys... You can edit these suits. Once you click out of the build you can't re-edit, but you can change anything when you create the suit... I thought the suit was an as-is thing? https://twitter.com/RandomDuck91/status/532163385136529408 There's some proof. Wow. That could be a bug. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.

ResistanceGTA D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1680	Posted - 2014.11.11 14:02:00 - [51] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: ResistanceGTA wrote: Guys... You can edit these suits. Once you click out of the build you can't re-edit, but you can change anything when you create the suit... I thought the suit was an as-is thing? https://twitter.com/RandomDuck91/status/532163385136529408 There's some proof. Wow. That could be a bug. Honestly, if you can afford the LP version, you've probably been running mainly LP gear (I have) so it saves you pretty much nothing. I edit it to full proto, all it does is save me the suit ISK. But, yea, a little oversight. That's why I buy these things. And bring them here. And annoy CCP on Twitter. If you find an issue and I stumble upon your thread, I will do my darnedest to get the issue known. Also, Raptors...
Adis Riefha Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 0	Posted - 2014.11.11 14:03:00 - [52] - Quote Did I see this right, the new BPOs cost 50k aurm? Man, too bad for CCP but that's about twice as much as I was willing to pay. Time for some low-scale FW playing over the next months to get the two BPOs I want, I guess. On the other hand, thanks CCP for preventing me from wasting money on your fine game, it's appreciated!
Moonracer2000 Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 830	Posted - 2014.11.11 14:10:00 - [53] - Quote Even with standard level gear, these are pretty proto suits. I don't see how this is balanced. I'd feel okay going up against players in advanced gear with these fits. Back when CCP took the future of Dust seriously they agreed with the community that BPOs past standard level were a bad Idea. The only positive I see here is they are an incentive to playing FW. The ability to obtain them without AUR makes for a nice challenge. Too bad there are never FW matches available when I'm online :(
Darth-Carbonite GIO Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 1248	Posted - 2014.11.11 14:19:00 - [54] - Quote I'm having a hard time seeing how this would be useful for veteran players. It's great that you can buy them for isk, but there's really no point for me to do so 1.9 Fixes This Judge Rhadamanthus is my Hero
Kevall Longstride DUST University Ivy League 1986	Posted - 2014.11.11 14:22:00 - [55] - Quote Darth-Carbonite GIO wrote: I'm having a hard time seeing how this would be useful for veteran players. It's great that you can buy them for isk, but there's really no point for me to do so But..bu...but....... They're SHINY!!! CPM 1 member CEO of DUST University Vist dustcpm.com
poison Diego Vengeance Unbound RISE of LEGION 488	Posted - 2014.11.11 14:31:00 - [56] - Quote Well now I just have to fit my suits to counter these BPO suits is there a contradiction to jealousy? . if so, KingThunderBolt would know....
Darth-Carbonite GIO Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 1248	Posted - 2014.11.11 14:31:00 - [57] - Quote Kevall Longstride wrote: Darth-Carbonite GIO wrote: I'm having a hard time seeing how this would be useful for veteran players. It's great that you can buy them for isk, but there's really no point for me to do so But..bu...but....... They're SHINY!!! I know, and that's cool, but I have a quafe suit for shiny. If I'm running proto suits, I'll typically want to run proto gear on it as well. Basically, I feel it would have been better to add actual customization options, rather than even more BPOs. 1.9 Fixes This Judge Rhadamanthus is my Hero
Espeon Bons Bloodline Rebellion Capital Punishment. 295	Posted - 2014.11.11 14:33:00 - [58] - Quote -_- where the hell is my dev blog about pc Redemption comes from changing who you are on the inside. Stain yourself with evil to defeat a greater evil.
ResistanceGTA D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1682	Posted - 2014.11.11 14:33:00 - [59] - Quote Kevall Longstride wrote: Darth-Carbonite GIO wrote: I'm having a hard time seeing how this would be useful for veteran players. It's great that you can buy them for isk, but there's really no point for me to do so But..bu...but....... They're SHINY!!! I have the LP and ISK lying around. What else am I gonna use them for? I can run FW without a care in the world if I want. As I slowly reintegrate myself into the game after a long hiatus, I can do so with little financial risk (though, to make its cost back I'll have to run it for a long time). Also gives me a half decent suit to wear while flying. If you find an issue and I stumble upon your thread, I will do my darnedest to get the issue known. Also, Raptors...
Tesfa Alem Death by Disassociation 343	Posted - 2014.11.11 14:37:00 - [60] - Quote Without aurum you need roughly 75- 100 FW wins to earn this suit. Pull out a 100 wins its With aurum its roughly 30 dollars,wich is a bit steep to ask of a new player to spend on a free to play game. The way i see it, these are vanity items for vets that are pretty much as good as any ADV suits. I expect to see alot of them in the coming months. 5 FW wins a day, and strting from scratch you can get one in about a month. Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.



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