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Skullmiser Vulcansu
164
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Posted - 2014.11.08 21:20:00 -
[1] - Quote
I don't ever intend to use a Gallente Logistics suit, Just Amarr, and maybe Caldari in the distant future. I've never used an active scanner, before, and since 1.8, I have felt discouraged, because all equipment was worsened without using the correct race. I use all the other equipment, because they're all useful even without bonuses, but if the base precision keeps me from scanning people at all without the Gallente's bonus, then I question its value to me.
If this game was fun, I wouldn't be playing it.
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Nocturnal Soul
Primordial Threat
4483
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Posted - 2014.11.08 21:25:00 -
[2] - Quote
Yes
(Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.pâ+n+ín+ƒ.
LASERS BTCH!!!!!!
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I-Shayz-I
I----------I
4983
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Posted - 2014.11.08 21:30:00 -
[3] - Quote
Unless the enemy team is literally all double dampened scouts you will scan 99% of all suits in the game with a proto scanner. Probably about 95% with advanced and 75% with standard.
If you go proto use the flux scanner, best one in the game. if you only stay at advanced go with the quantum.
Scanners don't earn a ton of wp but the information provided is very valuable bot only to keep you safe as a logi, but helps locate hidden uplinks and remotes, identifies enemy team positioning, and keeps track of where the enemy might be heading.
The gallente bonus is terrible because all it allows you to do is scan the most dampened of dampened scouts. In other words, it's the hard counter against sneaky scouts and you'll be able to track them for longer before you have to scan again. It does nothing for you if the majority of your enemies are assaults, heavies, or mlt suits.
7162 wp with a Repair Tool!
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Arkena Wyrnspire
Fatal Absolution
18860
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Posted - 2014.11.08 22:06:00 -
[4] - Quote
The only reason to go Gallogi is to scan scouts who are dampening slightly - if they don't damp then a proto scanner will get them, and if they dampen properly not even the Gallogi focused will get them.
You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake.
Currently challenging CCP Rattati for the queef
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DarthPlagueis TheWise
309
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Posted - 2014.11.08 22:16:00 -
[5] - Quote
I-Shayz-I wrote:The gallente bonus is terrible because all it allows you to do is scan the most dampened of dampened scouts. In other words, it's the hard counter against sneaky scouts and you'll be able to track them for longer before you have to scan again. It does nothing for you if the majority of your enemies are assaults, heavies, or mlt suits.
**** you too Shayz. With a metagame that scouts dominate, I really don't see why being able to scan scouts for the whole team is a "terrible bonus."
Keep babysitting dumb deaf and blind fatties while the real men actually contribute valuable intel to the team.
*shakes head* See, this sort of attitude is exactly why I was converted to the Amarrian faith from my dirty Minmatar origins.
Bolas deploys tank in strategic location
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DarthPlagueis TheWise
309
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Posted - 2014.11.08 22:18:00 -
[6] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:The only reason to go Gallogi is to scan scouts who are dampening slightly - if they don't damp then a proto scanner will get them, and if they dampen properly not even the Gallogi focused will get them.
I forgot if Caldari can even get under a focused. I think they can.
What you guys fail to understand is we don't have to use the Focused just to pick up scouts. With any of the other proto scanners, even the slightest lack of dampening will get picked up by a Gal Logi.
Bolas deploys tank in strategic location
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Vitharr Foebane
Terminal Courtesy Proficiency V.
1959
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Posted - 2014.11.08 22:29:00 -
[7] - Quote
I would be careful if I was you as scanners are getting ready to get wacked the nerf bat again.
Amarr: Assault V, Scout V, Sentinel V, Commando V, Logistics IV
I place my faith in my God, my Empress, and my Laz0r
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Auris Lionesse
Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation
1144
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Posted - 2014.11.08 23:09:00 -
[8] - Quote
Vitharr Foebane wrote:I would be careful if I was you as scanners are getting ready to get wacked the nerf bat again.
whered you hear that? theyre supposed to be buffed.
Don't vote for iron wolf saber.
Vote for someone who will help the community i.e. anyone else.
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DarthPlagueis TheWise
310
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Posted - 2014.11.08 23:18:00 -
[9] - Quote
Vitharr Foebane wrote:I would be careful if I was you as scanners are getting ready to get wacked the nerf bat again.
No. No they aren't.
Bolas deploys tank in strategic location
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Varoth Drac
Vengeance Unbound RISE of LEGION
329
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Posted - 2014.11.08 23:20:00 -
[10] - Quote
I-Shayz-I wrote:The gallente bonus is terrible because all it allows you to do is scan the most dampened of dampened scouts. In other words, it's the hard counter against sneaky scouts and you'll be able to track them for longer before you have to scan again. It does nothing for you if the majority of your enemies are assaults, heavies, or mlt suits. I think the Gal logi bonus should be changed from precision to cooldown reduction or scan angle increase.
The precision bonus makes it too difficult for mediums to dampen, and, other than the focused scanner, active scanners shouldn't be used to scan scouts. It doesn't fit the design of the scanners or of scouts. Scout scanning should be left to passive scans and focused scanners.
Maybe improve logi precision (passive) and add an advanced focused scanner.
What do you think? |
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LT SHANKS
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
3772
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Posted - 2014.11.08 23:30:00 -
[11] - Quote
DarthPlagueis TheWise wrote:I-Shayz-I wrote:The gallente bonus is terrible because all it allows you to do is scan the most dampened of dampened scouts. In other words, it's the hard counter against sneaky scouts and you'll be able to track them for longer before you have to scan again. It does nothing for you if the majority of your enemies are assaults, heavies, or mlt suits. **** you too Shayz. With a metagame that scouts dominate, I really don't see why being able to scan scouts for the whole team is a "terrible bonus." Keep babysitting dumb deaf and blind fatties while the real men actually contribute valuable intel to the team. *shakes head* See, this sort of attitude is exactly why I was converted to the Amarrian faith from my dirty Minmatar origins. FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT!!! |
Arkena Wyrnspire
Fatal Absolution
18863
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Posted - 2014.11.08 23:41:00 -
[12] - Quote
DarthPlagueis TheWise wrote:Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:The only reason to go Gallogi is to scan scouts who are dampening slightly - if they don't damp then a proto scanner will get them, and if they dampen properly not even the Gallogi focused will get them. I forgot if Caldari can even get under a focused. I think they can. What you guys fail to understand is we don't have to use the Focused just to pick up scouts. With any of the other proto scanners, even the slightest lack of dampening will get picked up by a Gal Logi.
All scouts can evade the proto scanner. 2 damps on a Gal/Cal scout will do it, 3 on the others. That''s hardly crippling levels of dampening for the Gal/Cal.
You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake.
Currently challenging CCP Rattati for the queef
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DarthPlagueis TheWise
314
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Posted - 2014.11.08 23:44:00 -
[13] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:All scouts can evade the proto scanner. 2 damps on a Gal/Cal scout will do it, 3 on the others. That''s hardly crippling levels of dampening for the Gal/Cal.
Aaaand that's why we're getting the nerfbat. Because 3 dampeners is crippling the kitchen knife butt pirates who are too ***** to go stealth.
Oh well. My Logi suit was never meant to be the star of the show anyway. That's why I got myself a Gal scout.
Bolas deploys tank in strategic location
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Arkena Wyrnspire
Fatal Absolution
18863
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Posted - 2014.11.08 23:46:00 -
[14] - Quote
Varoth Drac wrote:I-Shayz-I wrote:The gallente bonus is terrible because all it allows you to do is scan the most dampened of dampened scouts. In other words, it's the hard counter against sneaky scouts and you'll be able to track them for longer before you have to scan again. It does nothing for you if the majority of your enemies are assaults, heavies, or mlt suits. I think the Gal logi bonus should be changed from precision to cooldown reduction or scan angle increase. The precision bonus makes it too difficult for mediums to dampen, and, other than the focused scanner, active scanners shouldn't be used to scan scouts. It doesn't fit the design of the scanners or of scouts. Scout scanning should be left to passive scans and focused scanners. Maybe improve logi precision (passive) and add an advanced focused scanner. What do you think?
Why shouldn't active scanners be used to scan scouts? Why should scout scans be used to pick up scouts? So you have to use a scout to counter a scout? That's really not good balance. Frankly, of the two scan designs, active scanners make far more sense for picking up scouts. Unlike passive scans which are 360 degrees and permanent, active scanners only scan part of the time with a cooldown and only scan in a very narrow angle. They have huge drawbacks compared to scout passive scans, but they typically have worse precision, even with the focused. Not only that but they even tell you when you've been scanned.
Gallogi precision doesn't make it impossible for medium frames to evade scans - scout frames will do a better job scanning mediums anyway. What it partially does is make scouts dampen more to evade them (although they should be more worried about the invisible scout scans).
The precision on active scanners should be improved rather than nerfed, if anything.
DarthPlagueis TheWise wrote:I-Shayz-I wrote:The gallente bonus is terrible because all it allows you to do is scan the most dampened of dampened scouts. In other words, it's the hard counter against sneaky scouts and you'll be able to track them for longer before you have to scan again. It does nothing for you if the majority of your enemies are assaults, heavies, or mlt suits. **** you too Shayz. With a metagame that scouts dominate, I really don't see why being able to scan scouts for the whole team is a "terrible bonus." Keep babysitting dumb deaf and blind fatties while the real men actually contribute valuable intel to the team. *shakes head* See, this sort of attitude is exactly why I was converted to the Amarrian faith from my dirty Minmatar origins.
It's not like it can actually scan scouts, though.
You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake.
Currently challenging CCP Rattati for the queef
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DarthPlagueis TheWise
315
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Posted - 2014.11.08 23:50:00 -
[15] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:It's not like it can actually scan scouts, though.
Yeah it can scan the dirty knifers and Amarr scouts. It doesn't matter because we strike the fear of God into Gal/Cal because if they decide to run biotics instead of EWAR they will suffer for it.
It doesn't really matter if you're doing what a Logi is supposed to do anyway - use ALL of his equipment not just one. He will still have the best active scanner in the game.
Bolas deploys tank in strategic location
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hold that
Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic
355
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Posted - 2014.11.08 23:51:00 -
[16] - Quote
amarr and cal logis only have 3 equipment slots, a scanner is not worth the sacrifice imo if you are playing to be a dedicated logi (if you are making slayerlogi fits then hell yeah scanner is needed). despite what some people say or how they logi the bonus to uplinks from lv 5 amarr, and the bonus to hives from lv 5 cal are so great they should never be passed up. my amarr dedicated logi fits are uplink, needle, rep. my cal dedicated logi is hive, hive, rep.
cloaked scouts have made this game shty, in a sense that 80% of gameplay is now trying to defend against scouts. my advice would be to proto a gallogi to run scanners with maximum affect until medium suits get an ewar buff or scout cloaks get gimped more.
everyone talking sht about gallogi, the ability to light people up for 10 more seconds is huge, in addition to seeing the most damped scouts, in addition to 4 equipment slots and 5 lows, gallogi's are the most hardest to kill.
i am proto in all 4 logis btw |
Joel II X
Bacon with a bottle of Quafe
4440
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Posted - 2014.11.08 23:55:00 -
[17] - Quote
Sure, why not? |
DarthPlagueis TheWise
315
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Posted - 2014.11.08 23:58:00 -
[18] - Quote
Also I heard that Cal Assault is absolute **** without an active scanner.
Bolas deploys tank in strategic location
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Varoth Drac
Vengeance Unbound RISE of LEGION
329
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Posted - 2014.11.09 00:07:00 -
[19] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Why shouldn't active scanners be used to scan scouts? Why should scout scans be used to pick up scouts? So you have to use a scout to counter a scout? That's really not good balance. Frankly, of the two scan designs, active scanners make far more sense for picking up scouts. Unlike passive scans which are 360 degrees and permanent, active scanners only scan part of the time with a cooldown and only scan in a very narrow angle. They have huge drawbacks compared to scout passive scans, but they typically have worse precision, even with the focused. Not only that but they even tell you when you've been scanned.
Gallogi precision doesn't make it impossible for medium frames to evade scans - scout frames will do a better job scanning mediums anyway. What it partially does is make scouts dampen more to evade them (although they should be more worried about the invisible scout scans).
The precision on active scanners should be improved rather than nerfed, if anything.
You do make an interesting point. I was thinking active scanners are better suited to scanning mediums because of medium suit's usual position relative to the scanner, i.e. in front and between 40-100m away.
However, I quite like the idea of making active scanners good at precision, poor in other areas, scans. Whereas passives can be constant, 360 scans but with poor precision. This way logis with skill can combat scouts without completely shutting them down. Scouts would still be encouraged to dampen to avoid passives in cqc, a problem mediums wouldn't have to worry too much about as they engage at long range. Scouts would still have the cqc advantage if they succeed in isolating enemies. Mediums could avoid this weakness by fitting damps.
Perhaps Rattati can improve ewar by reducing active scan durations, increasing cooldowns, but improving precision. Passive scans should have their precision nerfed (maybe) but maintain current ranges (buff assault to 15m).
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Arkena Wyrnspire
Fatal Absolution
18865
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Posted - 2014.11.09 00:50:00 -
[20] - Quote
Varoth Drac wrote:
However, I quite like the idea of making active scanners good at precision, poor in other areas, scans. Whereas passives can be constant, 360 scans but with poor precision. This way logis with skill can combat scouts without completely shutting them down. Scouts would still be encouraged to dampen to avoid passives in cqc, a problem mediums wouldn't have to worry too much about as they engage at long range. Scouts would still have the cqc advantage if they succeed in isolating enemies. Mediums could avoid this weakness by fitting damps.
This is exactly what I feel active scanners should be used for. With the narrow angle you have to have a good idea of where the person you're hunting is before you can find them, and then you can only paint them for a few seconds before you have to deal with a long cooldown.
That's ideally suited to being a balanced counter to scouts. A scout can still flank and evade scans because you need to know roughly where the scout is to scan it, but if you have a solid suspicion that a scout is in a specific area you can ping it for a short confirmation of their presence.
Quote: Perhaps Rattati can improve ewar by reducing active scan durations, increasing cooldowns, but improving precision. Passive scans should have their precision nerfed (maybe) but maintain current ranges (buff assault to 15m).
Looking at the focused as a model here, precision on that still isn't good enough to pick up a modestly dampened scout, but it has a hefty 40 second cooldown. I'm not really sure that cooldown seriously needs to be increased anymore, and it only lights up the target for a couple of seconds anyway.
None of the scanners apart from the proximity (which is a weird and awful piece of kit) have cooldown times that can be considered short, also. I'm not convinced the proto flux needs the longest range -and- the widest angle, though. I feel the proximity scanner should have the widest angle (although it should have the shortest range, too).
Precision on passive scans isn't really a problem, I think. But active scanners should be able to beat that, because active scanners sacrifice so much more for it.
You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake.
Currently challenging CCP Rattati for the queef
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I-Shayz-I
I----------I
4988
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Posted - 2014.11.09 03:48:00 -
[21] - Quote
Pretty sure that scouts, or any role for that matter, shouldn't dominate the meta. The truth is that the gallente bonus IS terrible because it has no value in a standard pub match.
No, I don't care about PC, I don't play PC, and competitive gameplay will never be interesting to me simply because people are boring and always run the same FOTM
Scouts should not be able to run into a room with a shotgun and destroy everything because they can fit a massive amount of HP and be dampened and cloaked at the same time. It's just that the scout community wanted to make sure their suit is still viable as a slayer option...
Scouts being specialized slayers is what I want to see. Scouts being used as assaults because they have better bonuses? Just stupid. To me, the scout is the hard counter for sentinels and commandos, as well as a great way to stealth hack an objective or quickly place some uplinks. 1v1 if the scout flanks and takes advantage they should be able to win, but not this current run straight into your face because they have 5000 shields and 500 shield regen and can dodge your bullets.
7162 wp with a Repair Tool!
List of Legion Feedback Threads!
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Dreis Shadowweaver
T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K
592
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Posted - 2014.11.09 04:56:00 -
[22] - Quote
DarthPlagueis TheWise wrote:I-Shayz-I wrote:The gallente bonus is terrible because all it allows you to do is scan the most dampened of dampened scouts. In other words, it's the hard counter against sneaky scouts and you'll be able to track them for longer before you have to scan again. It does nothing for you if the majority of your enemies are assaults, heavies, or mlt suits. **** you too Shayz. With a metagame that scouts dominate, I really don't see why being able to scan scouts for the whole team is a "terrible bonus." Keep babysitting dumb deaf and blind fatties while the real men actually contribute valuable intel to the team. *shakes head* See, this sort of attitude is exactly why I was converted to the Amarrian faith from my dirty Minmatar origins. Whoa, that escalated quickly...
Creator of the 'Nova Knifers United' channel
I've only ever known 1.8...
Caldari blood, Minmatar heart <3
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Varoth Drac
Vengeance Unbound RISE of LEGION
332
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Posted - 2014.11.09 09:52:00 -
[23] - Quote
Ok, more simple solution.
Replace Gal logi precision bonus with scan angle or cooldown reduction.
Lower focused scanner precision to 10db (maybe nerf some other attribute).
Add an advanced focused scanner.
Reduce assault profile by 5 so they can dampen more easily.
Introduce harsher hp mod penalties for scouts only. For example, greatly increased shield recharge delay penalties for extenders (not just depleted delay) and greatly increase speed penalties for plates (reactive and ferroscale as well). |
Varoth Drac
Vengeance Unbound RISE of LEGION
332
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Posted - 2014.11.09 09:56:00 -
[24] - Quote
Also, to shayz, scouts aren't a hard counter to heavies, neither should they be. This isn't a game of hard suit counters. The idea that scouts counter heavies so mediums should counter scouts (which is the implication) is crazy. |
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