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Please Rework Skill gains

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Joseph Ridgeson WarRavens Capital Punishment. 2252	Posted - 2014.10.30 18:49:00 - [1] - Quote I am sorry if this data is incorrect but it has been the one we have been given long ago. 190,400 SP a week Active. 168,000 SP a week Passive. In a match, SP is equal to: (Seconds in Match x 5) + (War Points in Match) Assuming 3 players: 500 WP man (throws a few uplinks, gets some kills, basic player), 1,000 WP man (decent solo player), 2,200 WP man (amazing solo player or squad player with defend order). Each match lasts an arbitrary amount of time. Say 12 minutes (3,600 SP). The amount of games needed to cap for each person (rounded) is: 500 WP: 194,400 / 4,100 = 48 games (9.6 hours of play) 1,000 WP: 194,400 / 4,600 = 43 games (8.6 hours of play) 2,200 WP: 194,400 / 5,800 = 34 games (6.8 hours of play) Alright, so being in a Squad and/or being a player that "helps your team" (that is what WP mean) means more SP which means less games and you cap faster. The proposed change to 750,000 SP a week while only increasing doubling SP from WP is going to really screw with the game significantly. 500 WP: 750,000 / 4,600 = 163 games (32.6 hours of play) 1,000 WP: 750,000 / 5,600 = 134 games (26.8 hours of play) 2,200 WP: 750,000 / 8,000 = 94 games (18.8 hours of play) You are talking about nearly tripling the amount of time needed in order to cap out. While the simple solution might be "just don't cap out" those that have put money into the game for Active boosters (waves) are going to have to be compelled in order to cap out. Otherwise, is is just "leaving money on the table." Please consider reworking the formula. Also, as an aside, the disparity of between Active and Passive boosters are grown to levels where a Passive Booster is truly pointless. Here are the numbers before: Active: 190,400 SP Passive: 168,000 SP So Active is about 13% more. "Okay, so a Passive Booster doesn't quite have the value but since I don't have to do anything it is the safest purchase." What about these numbers? Active: 750,000 SP Passive: 168,000 SP Active is more than 346% greater than the Passive SP. This has two problems, one bigger for the company and the other bigger for the player. For the player: "Before, I was capable of remaining competitive if I didn't cap out every week. I could just get a Passive booster and while I would be behind, I would not be utterly hosed by the 12 year old playing all the time. It is a good balance of EVE's Passive system and still giving a reason to play. Now if I don't cap one week, even 2 Passive Booster for 30 days will not catch me up (720,000 SP)." For the company: "Passive and Active boosters both cost the same amount of Aurum. However, with these numbers, the players are highly desensitized to buy Passive boosters at all. Even an Omega Booster that puts Passive to 336,000 SP a week is not even half of what non-boosted Active SP is. Ideally, we would want players to want both and utilize the bundles we provide." For the player, both having to put more time into the game in order to cap and being more behind if we don't cap is lousy. For the company, any time that a player says "this benefit that costs actual money is completely worthless" is removing successful ways by which the players can monetize the game without feeling ripped off. 10 bucks for 360,000 SP? That feels like a ripoff compared to what is free. Food for thought from a player that monetizes. "This is B.S! This is B.S! I paid money! Cash money, dollars money, cash money!"
Atiim 13286	Posted - 2014.10.30 18:52:00 - [2] - Quote Keep in mind that CCP said that the SP accrual rates will also be increased, along with the whole "Ranking" system which increases your SP payouts even further. I think the amount of time to cap out will remain the same with these added additions. The 1st Matari Commando -HAND
Joseph Ridgeson WarRavens Capital Punishment. 2252	Posted - 2014.10.30 18:57:00 - [3] - Quote Atiim wrote: Keep in mind that CCP said that the SP accrual rates will also be increased, along with the whole "Ranking" system which increases your SP payouts even further. I think the amount of time to cap out will remain the same with these added additions. My guess is that those will be a bonus rather than a "cap faster." Two reasons: 1. The similar wording is used for "Additional Skillpoint Rewards per Battle" and "Additional Daily Skillpoint Bonus." The odds of them working differently are unlikely to me. 2. Having to play the game less is a pretty crappy reward for someone who plays all the time. It is kind of silly, really. "You play the game a whole bunch and spent Aurum on the game? Well, congratulations; you don't have to play the game as much!" "This is B.S! This is B.S! I paid money! Cash money, dollars money, cash money!"
Derpty Derp Dead Man's Game RUST415 619	Posted - 2014.10.30 19:14:00 - [4] - Quote A lack of a 'winning' bonus still annoys me... It will still be better to chill round the 'safe' parts of the map picking up the easy wp than to actually go for the objective...
Joseph Ridgeson WarRavens Capital Punishment. 2255	Posted - 2014.10.30 21:38:00 - [5] - Quote Any comment from DUST Jesus himself, Rattati? "This is B.S! This is B.S! I paid money! Cash money, dollars money, cash money!"
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 1319	Posted - 2014.10.30 21:40:00 - [6] - Quote Derpty Derp wrote: A lack of a 'winning' bonus still annoys me... It will still be better to chill round the 'safe' parts of the map picking up the easy wp than to actually go for the objective... I can agree with that , AFKing anyone ? Thank you Rattati , the DEV crew and the CPM for getting the job of 1.9 done .
TRULY ELITE WarRavens Capital Punishment. 77	Posted - 2014.10.30 22:16:00 - [7] - Quote On average I cap out before Saturday downtime, so doubling that means that by Saturday I'll get 190 x 2= 380k SP since double SP per warpoint. So I could effectively cap twice in one week prior 1.9 so weekly on average I'd get 760k SP. However you are right when you say it could become a grind especially with a booster.
Joseph Ridgeson WarRavens Capital Punishment. 2256	Posted - 2014.10.30 22:26:00 - [8] - Quote TRULY ELITE wrote: On average I cap out before Saturday downtime, so doubling that means that by Saturday I'll get 190 x 2= 380k SP since double SP per warpoint. So I could effectively cap twice in one week prior 1.9 so weekly on average I'd get 760k SP. However you are right when you say it could become a grind especially with a booster. WP are about 1/6 your SP. You won't even have 380k by Saturday. You are probably looking at 255K or so by Saturday. Also, Boosters don't make your cap larger. They just give you free points. IE, if I have a Booster and you don't and in a match you get 4,000, I would get 6,000. Your cap would be 746k and my cap would be 746k. The reason I brought them up is that if I were to use a 30 day Active booster, I would be compelled to cap out EVERY week. "This is B.S! This is B.S! I paid money! Cash money, dollars money, cash money!"
Maken Tosch Dust University Ivy League 9999	Posted - 2014.10.31 00:18:00 - [9] - Quote Derpty Derp wrote: A lack of a 'winning' bonus still annoys me... It will still be better to chill round the 'safe' parts of the map picking up the easy wp than to actually go for the objective... On the bright side, at least winning the matches will affect your Loyalty Rank. So I at least expect a lot of lazy players to finally start pushing for a win every once in a while. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Joseph Ridgeson WarRavens Capital Punishment. 2261	Posted - 2014.10.31 02:36:00 - [10] - Quote Seriously, it is going to be annoying feeling the "I HAVE TO CAP!" just because I already have several weeks worth of Booster running. How about making the grind less grindy? "This is B.S! This is B.S! I paid money! Cash money, dollars money, cash money!"

Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 4399	Posted - 2014.11.02 19:21:00 - [11] - Quote Joseph Ridgeson wrote: Seriously, it is going to be annoying feeling the "I HAVE TO CAP!" just because I already have several weeks worth of Booster running. How about making the grind less grindy? Serious, non-trolly question here: what is compelling you to cap out? Why is CCP required to balance their monetization policy around your compulsions? My advice to you, playa...
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3677	Posted - 2014.11.02 19:36:00 - [12] - Quote Derpty Derp wrote: A lack of a 'winning' bonus still annoys me... It will still be better to chill round the 'safe' parts of the map picking up the easy wp than to actually go for the objective... The value of WP regarding how they effect your SP earned is being up scaled in 1.9 so while there is no team wide bounty for winning those who AFK will be getting an even smaller portion of the SP pie - compared to someone who actually plays the match - than is currently the case. Besides which, until we can eliminate all the problems with being dropped into matches part way through a focus on WP rather than a new EoM bonus is going to reward more effectively (WP scaling also happens to be an easier change resource wise than encoding an entirely new rewards mechanic into the system). 0.02 ISK Cross See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3677	Posted - 2014.11.02 19:45:00 - [13] - Quote Joseph Ridgeson wrote: You are talking about nearly tripling the amount of time needed in order to cap out. While the simple solution might be "just don't cap out" those that have put money into the game for Active boosters (waves) are going to have to be compelled in order to cap out. Otherwise, is is just "leaving money on the table." Please consider reworking the formula. Another - equally valid - way to view this is that the monetary value of your previous purchase has just been buffed by CCP. Now if you play even a single game past the 190,400 active then you are already getting a higher return on investment under the new system than under the current system. Granted it will be harder to *maximize* the value of your investment now but even with the minor uptick in WP to SP value the earnings are also faster so CCP has buffed the value of your booster twice. So while yes, you will need to play more total hours under the new system if you wish to fully cap, than you would have to under the current system if you only play to cap and then log off, the only money you are "leaving on the table" is part of the larger pot of money that CCP is already giving you. Even with completely unaltered play times/habits your booster will still be giving you a higher net SP gain (i.e. a higher monetary value) post 1.9 deployment than it does at present. 0.02 ISK Cross See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3362	Posted - 2014.11.02 20:00:00 - [14] - Quote The act of capping is actually wasting your booster. It means you purchased too much booster time for the SP you were able to earn. Buy a 7 day booster, cap in 2 days, you just wasted 5 days of your booster. 1.9 drops. You buy a 7 day booster, increased cap makes you cap in 7 days. You just used exactly the right amount of booster the the SP available. You buy a 7 days booster, fail to cap, still received bonus from that booster for all 7 days. Not a single second of that booster was wasted, in fact you would have earned MORE SP that you would have Pre 1.9 when you capped in 2 days. Nothing about this 'devalues' your booster, in fact it does quite the opposite. Hotfix Delta Sentinel eHP Calcs
Kensai Dragon Dust University Ivy League 36	Posted - 2014.11.02 20:50:00 - [15] - Quote Ever notice the number of players online? In the opening 'updates screen'? Notice how that number is much higher on Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday? Notice that by Monday night it's about half the number it is on the other days? CCP is trying to retain the player base. This should be a good way to keep the vets who cap early playing more regularly. Yeah, it might suck initially for guys like me as they continue to wipe the floor with my face, but it will also be a win over all for everyone. Vets have a reason to continue playing, noobs get opportunity to learn from them (traditional martial arts style, lol), and CCP gets additional money from boosters. I see this as a generally good thing for the health of the game.
Joseph Ridgeson WarRavens Capital Punishment. 2310	Posted - 2014.11.02 22:21:00 - [16] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: Joseph Ridgeson wrote: Seriously, it is going to be annoying feeling the "I HAVE TO CAP!" just because I already have several weeks worth of Booster running. How about making the grind less grindy? Serious, non-trolly question here: what is compelling you to cap out? Why is CCP required to balance their monetization policy around your compulsions? They aren't. Never suggested they had to. However, it would be convenient as hell not to have to spend so long in order to cap when I have a booster running in order to maximize my gain. Considering that is the purpose of boosters, not being able to get the gain out of it ends up hurting. Cross Atu wrote: Granted it will be harder to *maximize* the value of your investment now but even with the minor uptick in WP to SP value the earnings are also faster so CCP has buffed the value of your booster twice. Sure, I understand that even if I play the same amount it will result in more SP than I had before. However, putting money into it ends up forcing the "I GOTTA CAP!" which makes it more annoying on the amount needed to cap. I know it isn't overall the biggest concern ever but increasing the WP ratio further or or the SP per second would be quite nice in order for someone who plays the same amount of time to make the most use of that larger pie. I will say, however, that the part about Passive SP is an issue. With Active being so much larger, it means that missing out on a week is far more devastating than it was before and the value of Passive Boosters compared to Active Boosters have been reduced greatly. "This is B.S! This is B.S! I paid money! Cash money, dollars money, cash money!"
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3682	Posted - 2014.11.02 22:54:00 - [17] - Quote "Devastating" is not something that can accurately be applied to the rate of SP accrual, especially not an increase in that rate. Once your primary role is fully skilled, which is now going to happen with much more ease for any player, any SP after that is far from vital. Useful and fun? Sure, but once you hit that benchmark there is no meaningful "SP arms race" to consider. This change reduces to effective impact of missing a week or two of play, let alone not capping fully in a given week, but allowing players to hit that 'maxed out role' baseline. Now, do I personally feel the urge to cap and to maximize my boosters? Absolutely. But that personal drive does not alter the realty that these changes are an outright buff to both SP accrual and to the value of boosters. Furthermore the new system opens the door wider for new players to be competitive and thus stomped less often by making the single role baseline more attainable. If that comes with the "cost" of making me want to play more, well for the health of the game I'd say that's win-win and the responsibility to scale my own play time rests solely on me. 0.02 ISK Cross See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
Derpty Derp Dead Man's Game RUST415 629	Posted - 2014.11.04 18:55:00 - [18] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: Derpty Derp wrote: A lack of a 'winning' bonus still annoys me... It will still be better to chill round the 'safe' parts of the map picking up the easy wp than to actually go for the objective... The value of WP regarding how they effect your SP earned is being up scaled in 1.9 so while there is no team wide bounty for winning those who AFK will be getting an even smaller portion of the SP pie - compared to someone who actually plays the match - than is currently the case. Besides which, until we can eliminate all the problems with being dropped into matches part way through a focus on WP rather than a new EoM bonus is going to reward more effectively (WP scaling also happens to be an easier change resource wise than encoding an entirely new rewards mechanic into the system). 0.02 ISK Cross I wasn't on about the afkers who are at least going to lose out, at least a little from the changes... There are ways to get large amounts of wp's with very little risk... Sit in the redzone and watch the map for half the match before you see a vehicle... Drive a rail tank to the edge of the redzone and wait patiently for the vehicle to come into range. This adds nothing to the game, leaves your team at a disadvantage while you wait for these 'easy' and 'safe' wps and just pew pew... You don't even have to destroy it to get a few. uplink spam... With the nice buffs to standard dropships, you can deck out a Grimsnes nicely, allowing you to fly with quite a lot of safety (can't ram that out the sky on your own) and just plop uplinks around the outskirts of the town... Your team is a man down on the ground, so if the other team takes the advantage your uplinks will be the only ones there... There's also rooftops which everyone loves to camp on. Get your whole team (or at least the most competent ones) to chill out in a building close to your redzone... You wont get barraged, you have the advantage of being prepared for attack from the few available openings... Once the other team gets bored of defending the objective from 2 or 3 bloobs and a scout, out they come looking for something to do and they find it... Lots of wp's to the team pretending they're in ambush... But thanks to the redzone you know which direction they're gonna come from. A more entertaining way is just strapping bombs to your jeep (although at least this adds risk and requires some skill) then just park up next to heavys and detonate... Get back in and continue to the next target... Get a lot of points downing jeeps and a few weak tanks (or strong tanks if you take a more expensive suit.) This can help a bit, but it's not exactly pushing the objective to pop a few less than useful targets every now and again.


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